Quote: (04-30-2013 10:16 AM)gandt Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:00 AM)Moma Wrote:  

el mechanico, can you elaborate further on timing, por favor?

Seconded!

I'm thinking about how to write it out. I'm yet to be able to teach anyone this in person.

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:22 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:16 AM)gandt Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:00 AM)Moma Wrote:  

el mechanico, can you elaborate further on timing, por favor?

Seconded!

I'm thinking about how to write it out. I'm yet to be able to teach anyone this in person.

Yeah, I think it is hard to explain "timing" in writing, even in person.

"Timing" in swooping is the same as "timing" in boxing. How do you explain it? How do you teach it?

It simply comes from experience and being sharp at your Game.

But great timing in boxing can negate an opponents superior speed, technique and power.

Great timing in Swooping can negate an opponents superior Looks, Game, Height, Physical Build or Money.

It might be the most important part of Game.

“Winning comes down to two things: Taking advantage of your opponents mistakes and perfect timing” – Michael John Mason VI (Father to son boxing advise when I was a young amateur)

I never could figure out why Ed Hardy got so big. It's definitely not my thing, but what about it was so appealing to people?

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:42 AM)soup Wrote:  

I never could figure out why Ed Hardy got so big. It's definitely not my thing, but what about it was so appealing to people?

I'd never even heard of it before seeing it mentioned here.

Saying that, I do have Ed Hardy Skull & Roses cologne which the broads seem to like.

Hell, a broad picked it out and she hates the douchey Ed Hardy image as well.

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:22 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:16 AM)gandt Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:00 AM)Moma Wrote:  

el mechanico, can you elaborate further on timing, por favor?

Seconded!

I'm thinking about how to write it out. I'm yet to be able to teach anyone this in person.

I might hit u up on the horn and jot down some notes, I'll be your ghost pen

Timing is knowing when to execute the next part of the seduction. So if she's giving you the right signals you take her out of the club/bar/restaurant, bang her in the bathroom, or just ditch her altogether.

It's knowing when to get the first kiss, when to approach, when to flirt with other girls, when to talk to her fat cockblock friends, when to dance, when to rip her pants off in your bedroom.

Extremely difficult to teach, timing is one of those things that separate players from the gold, silver, or bronze tiers, because it has to be learned by hard experience.

I still regularly fuck it up with timing and only realize what I did wrong after a day's reflection.

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:40 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:22 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:16 AM)gandt Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:00 AM)Moma Wrote:  

el mechanico, can you elaborate further on timing, por favor?

Seconded!

I'm thinking about how to write it out. I'm yet to be able to teach anyone this in person.

Yeah, I think it is hard to explain "timing" in writing, even in person.

"Timing" in swooping is the same as "timing" in boxing. How do you explain it? How do you teach it?

It simply comes from experience and being sharp at your Game.

But great timing in boxing can negate an opponents superior speed, technique and power.

Great timing in Swooping can negate an opponents superior Looks, Game, Height, Physical Build or Money.

It might be the most important part of Game.

“Winning comes down to two things: Taking advantage of your opponents mistakes and perfect timing” – Michael John Mason VI (Father to son boxing advise when I was a young amateur)

Timing in game breaks down to knowing when to wait, and knowing when to strike.

Some examples:

2/3 rule This is where you time your texts or other comfort lobs to occur so that for every one minute she delays texting you, you delay your next text by twice that amount.

2 second pause after she speaks This is a way of creating sexual tension, minimizing your expressions of anxiety, and adding gravitas to everything you say. You either count two seconds after her last word to speak (this is like saying "are you done?" without actually saying it). Or you can repeat her last sentence in your head and then speak. When Marlon Brando did Street Car Named Desire, he was able to make himself look stupider by actually taking his lines, translating them into German, then to French, and then back to English, on the spot. So, it looked like he was thinking really hard to say simple things. These kinds of mental games can have very realistic effects.

Cutting her off Knowing when to cut a girl off is key, especially if she starts mentioning other men on a first date.

Knowing when to pre-empt her talking about other guys. This is being able to sense when she's going to drop the above info so you know that you have to start to really take control of the converstation.

When to make a move: You have to know when to strike while the iron is hot. There are certain key moments when if you don't make the move, you are dooming the bang.

Knowing when to pull back before she does: You have to be able to sense when she's going to disengage from you physically so that you can be the one to do it first.

----

There are a lot more of these that I can't think of right now.

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:57 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Extremely difficult to teach, timing is one of those things that separate players from the gold, silver, or bronze tiers, because it has to be learned by hard experience.

I still regularly fuck it up with timing and only realize what I did wrong after a day's reflection.

This is gold. It takes me a good 30 minutes before sleep to decompress from the events of the day/night and relive the "anxiety/rush" and critically analyze what went wrong.

Its almost like meditating. I replay the scenario in my head, think about my emotions and the vibe of the girl. I usually can pinpoint where it all went wrong by her facial expressions.

My biggest issue w/timing is know how/when to bounce the girls to another spot smoothly. I still can't get this down proper in LA. Either its my inability to lock them up tonight or their hesitation/concern w/getting home. Not really sure how to analyze this part....

Edit- this seems to be why I suck so much at texting. I am better at talking on the phone, but people refuse to pick up the phone. Hell, I had girls text me back 1 second after calling w/ "Hey."

Quote: (04-30-2013 11:08 AM)DVY Wrote:  

My biggest issue w/timing is know how/when to bounce the girls to another spot smoothly. I still can't get this down proper in LA. Either its my inability to lock them up tonight or their hesitation/concern w/getting home. Not really sure how to analyze this part....

A lot of this comes from venue knowledge, which is one of the reasons I stress venues so much.

One of the key aspects of my Game is knowing how to "package" moves ie, meeting at a dope spot for a cocktail, bouncing to a spot across the street for some apps, a quick cab to a dope club or lounge and a quick walk to a late night wine bar that is across the street from my crib to close.

This kind of stuff is always 100 times harder in LA than a more "walking city".

Proper venue selection with impeccable timing can do 90% of your Game work for you.

I have been thinking of doing a post on "packaging moves" forever, but it is kind of hard to explain.

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:54 AM)Moma Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:22 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:16 AM)gandt Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:00 AM)Moma Wrote:  

el mechanico, can you elaborate further on timing, por favor?

Seconded!

I'm thinking about how to write it out. I'm yet to be able to teach anyone this in person.

I might hit u up on the horn and jot down some notes, I'll be your ghost pen

ok

There's a shitload of things. You want to pull the cashier at the supermarket. What do you do? Wait until your the last person in line even if you have to get out of line to get more things(fake) so she's not embarrassed or impatient when you're rapping with her.

Girls at the bar. Doing shots? Wait. High energy? Wait. There's a sweet spot in between. Just buzzed enough to go to one more stop or too buzzed and totally irrational. Buzzed enough to leave her friends or too buzzed they wont let her leave etc etc.

Can you size up an entire venue? I can and tell you what everyone in there is going to do two steps in advance. I did this routine with Fisto, Ali was too far out to notice by then maybe he can explain it.

Wait a second, Is the Thread back on track and people staring to drop gems

e-mech that used to be my sticky, I felt like if I am not Approaching , I am wasting time, I get restless not Approaching. I had to calm the fuck down, walk the fuck slowly, slow movements, read people etc etc .

carry on with your though process mechanico ........

Quote: (04-30-2013 11:29 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:54 AM)Moma Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:22 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:16 AM)gandt Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 10:00 AM)Moma Wrote:  

el mechanico, can you elaborate further on timing, por favor?

Seconded!

I'm thinking about how to write it out. I'm yet to be able to teach anyone this in person.

I might hit u up on the horn and jot down some notes, I'll be your ghost pen

ok

There's a shitload of things. You want to pull the cashier at the supermarket. What do you do? Wait until your the last person in line even if you have to get out of line to get more things(fake) so she's not embarrassed or impatient when you're rapping with her.

Girls at the bar. Doing shots? Wait. High energy? Wait. There's a sweet spot in between. Just buzzed enough to go to one more stop or too buzzed and totally irrational. Buzzed enough to leave her friends or too buzzed they wont let her leave etc etc.

Can you size up an entire venue? I can and tell you what everyone in there is going to do two steps in advance. I did this routine with Fisto, Ali was too far out to notice by then maybe he can explain it.

Here is one:

I use this at night Street Game all the time.

See a fly girl walking on the corner up ahead.

Anticipate which way she is going to cross, so you can "meet" "by chance" on the street.

Real sinister.

Also, in clubs:

You see a fly girl at the bar. See which way she is going; is it to the bathroom? The dancefloor? The VIP?

Cut her off at the pass. Approach.

I always work the "transition Game". The "pendulum is swinging" and it is so much easier to approach. Make your life easy.

This sh*t is so artistic, and takes years to learn, but is a hallmark of my Game.

Learn your "Traffic Lanes" and "Vortex Zones". I have talked about this for years.

Quote: (04-30-2013 11:48 AM)Lothario Wrote:  

Wait a second, Is the Thread back on track and people staring to drop gems

Don't call it a comeback.

This thread has been on point since the jump as far as I am concerned.

Timing. One of my favorite topics. In any sport, this is what separates the winners from the losers.

Most people know what to do, but, knowing WHEN to do it is just as important. Timing requires a greater awareness and a deeper understanding of the game.

A few examples:

You are at a bar, you see a girl, she is drinking with her friends, she is not looking around, she is only making eye contact with her friends.. You wait.. 45 minutes later, she is a little tipsy, her body language has relaxed, she starts to look around around the room, her friends start to scatter around the bar, she looks more relaxed, open, and ready to have some fun. YOU APPROACH AT THAT MOMENT.

You see a girl at the university, she is walking fast, she goes into the cafe and gets in line, you wait.. she orders coffee, she is waiting for her coffee and standing all by herself, YOU APPROACH AT THAT MOMENT.

You are sitting on your couch with a girl, 1st time she is at your house, her body language is closed, her legs and arms are kept close to her body, you wait... You make drinks, you talk and laugh, you have another drink, she laughs, she smiles, her body relaxes, she starts to lightly touch you on your leg and arm, she lets her knee rest against your thigh, YOU MAKE YOUR MOVE AT THAT MOMENT.

You are a hunter, you are stalking your prey, its early in the day, your prey is full of energy, you wait.. Your prey has lunch, your prey lies down to take a nap, YOU STRIKE AT THAT MOMENT.

You are in a fight, the other guy is faster and stronger then you, You are cautious, you don't expose yourself, You just play defense and survive, you pretend to be a little hurt, you let the other guy to throw alot of punches, you wait... In a minute or 2 he slows down, he starts breathing heavy, his face was full of fury and adrenaline but now he looks tired and is gasping for air, YOU STRIKE AT THAT MOMENT.

You are playing basketball, the guy guarding you takes his eyes off of you.. YOU STRIKE AT THAT MOMENT.

You are playing football, a player for the other team gets hurt, they put in the back up player, he is inexperienced, the very next play, YOU ATTACK HIM.

In music, in sports, in seduction, in love, in war...

Timing is everything.

5 star thread

Timing is everything, timing = life

Quote: (04-30-2013 11:48 AM)Lothario Wrote:  

Wait a second, Is the Thread back on track and people staring to drop gems

e-mech that used to be my sticky, I felt like if I am not Approaching , I am wasting time, I get restless not Approaching. I had to calm the fuck down, walk the fuck slowly, slow movements, read people etc etc .

carry on with your though process mechanico ........

This thread just stopped becoming a waste of time!! (Thanks G, ElMech, Gio, Samseau, Moma)

So Lothario, this is my problem here. I feel like if I don't act RIGHT AWAY then I am wasting time.

How did you combat this and how has it helped you now? Better? Worse?

I used to use gorilla game but I have to re-mod it depending on the venues I go to.

If a lizard is walking by and I grab her, it usually works against my favour so what I am now doing is meeting her when she is not moving, in the corner or wherever she has settled and opening on her and her friends.

It's good to wait till they are liquored up and relaxed in the club before going in, in my experience. I have no problem going HAM as soon as I get through the door but if she is not psyched for some man to be looming over here, no voodoo is going to get her to open up especially if she is within the magnetic pull of her fellow hamsters.

I've gone koko loko in certain venues and crapped out (0 for 22 approaches).

I think timing falls in alignment with that two bulls (old vs young) chatting. Young bull wants to go down and fcuk the two cows. Old bull says wait and we can go and fcuk them all.

It's a case of patience (which is a virtue of maturity and knowledge, I guess).

To further elaborate, I would say that timing is to do with a confidence in one's own abilities. You know you have the tools available to convert, you just wait for your opening.
Some cats who don't have that confidence may just come in and get drunk and blitz the joint before their 'powers' wear off.

El mech, feel free to chime in with your gems.

Quote: (04-30-2013 02:18 PM)Moma Wrote:  

I've gone koko loko in certain venues and crapped out (0 for 22 approaches).

Everyone does.

Charge it to the Game. Each "no" gets you closer to "yes". I call 0-22 a successful night. It's the girl's loss anyways.

I went 0-50 in Latvia one night.

I recently did 0-20 or so in Playa del Carmen one night.

Next night I went 1-5.

All you need is one (or two). You have to keep pushing.

Gio pretty much summed it up. And here's where PUA's fuck it up. They approach women at THE MOST INOPPORTUNE TIME! Those videos you guys post are horrific, especially Mystery, b/c fuzzy hats are so Dr. Seuss. Timing and time reframing are things you have to practice. I've suggested before, if you suck, to go out people watching. Sit in and outdoor cafe, bar, park, ect. People move in certain ways like herds of animals. Spend enough time, and you'll see it.

Timing includes when to hit the venue, how long to wait, when to approach, how long to stay after, ect. It's all about flow. And once you get good with that, you time reframe, meaning you put her on your clock, and the rest is good.

@Ali-B- Man, you are describing one of my favorite hobbies. I sometimes take girls to the bar, solely to people-watch. This is great fun! We post up at a restaurant/bar/park and people watch.

Ask the girl what she thinks of this couple, those dudes, those girls. Try to iterate their life-stories/backgrounds. Girls love this stuff. You can have material for days. Strangely enough, you get a good caliper on how perceptive/intelligent the girl is by her analysis. Generally speaking, the hotter the girl, the more socially perceptive.

I dont know where the myth of the hot, stupid girl came from. Its contrary to my observations.

Quote: (04-30-2013 07:52 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I have said it before, there will always be someone better looking than you, taller than you, richer than you.

But you can be the best dressed Man in the room.

This is something you can control.

That's a gem right here.

G, I'm curious: How would you dress at a location like that: http://ch.tilllate.com/en/photoalbum/overview/10640862

A little background information: This is in Zurich which is a business city with a lot of bankers, lawyers, consultants etc.
Approx. 20% of the guys you see in the photos wear a suit during the day. Showing up in a suit at a venue like that will make you stand out, but more in a try hard way.

Actually I know your answer, you would hit more classy spots. But still I wonder if you have some tips at hand on how to be the best dressed man in a club like this.

Thanks for the concrete examples, Gio. It's great seeing situations outside of game that can be applied to game.

Quote: (04-30-2013 02:29 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

you time reframe, meaning you put her on your clock, and the rest is good.

Ali, I haven't heard of the concept of time reframe before. Could you please cover it a bit more?

Quote: (04-30-2013 02:28 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Quote: (04-30-2013 02:18 PM)Moma Wrote:  

I've gone koko loko in certain venues and crapped out (0 for 22 approaches).

Everyone does.

Charge it to the Game. Each "no" gets you closer to "yes". I call 0-22 a successful night. It's the girl's loss anyways.

I went 0-50 in Latvia one night.

I recently did 0-20 or so in Playa del Carmen one night.

Next night I went 1-5.

All you need is one (or two). You have to keep pushing.

Absolutely this. People who win fail many more times more than they win. That's how it goes. Forget about the times you strike out. The homeruns you will remember! You got to be willing to lose big to win anything!

Quote: (04-30-2013 07:17 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Yeah, California is way less violent than back then.

What caused it?

Estrogen in the food the younger generation eats?

Apps? Iphones?

Instagram?

Kids being on pharmaceuticals?

Pinterest?

Smoking bans?

Facebook?

Skinny jeans restricting blood flow?

Twitter?

Ed Hardy?

What did it?

I'm not sure. Probably a lot of the big fish were locked away with 3 strikes. Maybe it had the effect of cutting the head off the snake. And the decline of gangsta rap probably had an influence as well. A lot of these young kids who would've been in tagging crews or gangbanging are now in crews of fixed gear cyclists. LAPD has also cracked down on a lot of shit too, like cruising. Throw in gentrification of formerly bad areas like Ecco Park and downtown and I guess it should be no surprise.

L.A. from '88 to '97 was a fucked up place. It's nothing like it used to be. Back then I never thought I'd see the day that white girls would be walking alone in downtown at night.

Quote: (04-30-2013 11:02 AM)soup Wrote:  

Timing in game breaks down to knowing when to wait, and knowing when to strike.

Some examples:

2/3 rule This is where you time your texts or other comfort lobs to occur so that for every one minute she delays texting you, you delay your next text by twice that amount.

2 second pause after she speaks This is a way of creating sexual tension, minimizing your expressions of anxiety, and adding gravitas to everything you say. You either count two seconds after her last word to speak (this is like saying "are you done?" without actually saying it). Or you can repeat her last sentence in your head and then speak. When Marlon Brando did Street Car Named Desire, he was able to make himself look stupider by actually taking his lines, translating them into German, then to French, and then back to English, on the spot. So, it looked like he was thinking really hard to say simple things. These kinds of mental games can have very realistic effects.

Cutting her off Knowing when to cut a girl off is key, especially if she starts mentioning other men on a first date.

Knowing when to pre-empt her talking about other guys. This is being able to sense when she's going to drop the above info so you know that you have to start to really take control of the converstation.

When to make a move: You have to know when to strike while the iron is hot. There are certain key moments when if you don't make the move, you are dooming the bang.

Knowing when to pull back before she does: You have to be able to sense when she's going to disengage from you physically so that you can be the one to do it first.

----

There are a lot more of these that I can't think of right now.

This is solid! The timing angle is one I haven't quite thought of in this way and it adds another dimension to things. Great insights. All you guys.