Okay, first off, I do agree it's more difficult in some cities than others to meet women. That being said, I just read a thread on toronto where the thread was on how shitty toronto was for getting ass yet one of the reasons listed why it was so difficult to get as was that 'every girl has 5 guys in her phone she can just call'. Well, my rhetorical of the day is: Why aren't you one of those five guys? Guys, these girls are having VERY active sex lives so I don't think the problem is them not putting out. I lived in Toronto for some time and have visited DC more than I care to count. If I had to venture a guess as to why guys aren't successful in these cities, a few things come to mind:

1.) Bad logistics: This is key esp. w/ one-night stands. Which leads into my next point:

2.) Relying on ONS for your sex life: I bet of those 5 guys in her phone, most of them aren't previous one night stands that she met at the bar without any prior social connection. Somehow these guys are getting into the right circles and working things a little bit with these broads. Most guys in the world aren't having a shit ton of one-night stands, yet they're not completely pussy deprived either. Unless you have some superb looks or status, you're gonna have to build some rapport.

3.) No game/looks/money/status: Self-explanatory.

4.) Shooting too high: I suspect this is more common than people would want to admit. The male hamster at it's finest.

5.) Not changing scenes: Change nightlife venue types, meet diff. types of girls. This could tie into #4 a bit.

I get alot of people complain about these cities, and yes I'd agree the attitudes of women in some of them aren't great, but in both cities the women are fucking. For fucks sake we're not talking about marriage here, we're talking about pussy. Smelly, slimy, satisfying pussy. I've seen plenty of wimpy hipster dudes with cute women on their arms in both cities. So they're out there.

How long ago did you live here? It's easy to talk about the war when your not in the trenches.

And the Hornet's Nest has been stirred...

Your post has so many contradictions it is laughable, this subject "Toronto" has been beaten to death. Again feel free to come here and show us how it is done oh great newbie.

Logistics is clearly the key.. both cities are expensive to live in, as such difficult to have a condo or apartment in a good location.

Who has the hand up on getting the bang... the attorney with family money/connections who has a condo in Georgetown in the city that obsessed with status and connections? Or somebody who shares an apartment in 15 miles outside of Alexandria and works part time in city planning?

Generally the places that get a bad rep on here are places I do well, and the places that get high marks I do poorly.

I suspect its b/c a lot of people here seem to have the same system and subscribe to the same theories and ideas, while I tend to use different methods and have a different beliefs, so of course we are going to have different places we are successful.

(quote)omehow these guys are getting into the right circles and working things a little bit with these broads. Most guys in the world aren't having a shit ton of one-night stands, yet they're not completely pussy deprived either.(/quote)

Tada, we are here. Thank you for bringing up this subject.
When I go to clubs & bars I sometimes wonder how those groups are formed. When I go and ask them it's:
-they went to the same school
-they are collegues
Afterwards they "move" in the same kind of social circles:
-art groups (theater, music, "art" (hipster))
-dancing classes

In european cities there is another problem. Girls don't want to live in big cities. Big cities are mostly male because the prices are lower there and all "male"-jobs are in the city. Lots of males are muslim/turcish/gypsy/black and mostly unemployed and live from wellfare. Because of the huge male population and agressivity in the cities the girls migrate away to smaller places. Girls tend to live and work in the suburbs and small cities.
I was on public transport yesterday and did some statistics:
40 males on tram, 10 extremely ugly females and 2 "fuckable" girls. All males are staring at those fuckable girls off course. And when I say "fuckable", I don't mean "hot".
Lots of girls go to concerts in the city, workplaces in the city, or restaurants, but when the night falls they get the hell out of there. Maybe in the states it's different.
Universities is another thing. Rich girls live on the campus or near the campus; most girls however still live with their parents and come with public transport to the city.

Most guys in the cities don't have pussy, simply because there are no woman. Society tend to "solve" this problem by importing prostitution (25euro / fuck). Most guys rely on their familial cirlce to find a husband; often some unschooled woman from the countryside from africa/turkey.

If you were lucky and you were in a female-rich school and afterwards a female-rich university courses, and then female-rich workplace, and you have some game and good looks, you have pussy.
Girls simply have A LOT of choice and they take the best guys from their direct environment. Most guys here are here because they are outside those female-rich environments.

Toronto girls are not worth the effort needed to get them. If you have travelled then you will refuse to deal with them, like several members on this board are doing. Some members have chosen to move away and have no desire to return, I am sure not all the Canadian dudes on this site lack game/looks/money/status that you suggest.
It also seems strange that in other places I can do quite well but in Toronto it is a dog-fight. The type of girls I meet are simply not worth more than a ONS but yet they are searching for a man with status who "ideally" has his own condo.
My friend was talking to a "woman" who is a single mother, she does not want to date a man that has kids. This type of mental behavior is normal here.

Ottawa sucks too btw. Every girl has a BF with a 6pack and 60k+ year job. Most work for the government which seems to add another layer of bitch shield for some reason. I have not been to TO in a long time so people complaining about it how do you think Ottawa compares? If its worse I feel so so bad for you guys.

Quote: (02-21-2013 09:25 AM)Marcellus Wrote:  

In european cities there is another problem. Girls don't want to live in big cities. Big cities are mostly male because the prices are lower there and all "male"-jobs are in the city. Lots of males are muslim/turcish/gypsy/black and mostly unemployed and live from wellfare. Because of the huge male population and agressivity in the cities the girls migrate away to smaller places. Girls tend to live and work in the suburbs and small cities.
I was on public transport yesterday and did some statistics:
40 males on tram, 10 extremely ugly females and 2 "fuckable" girls. All males are staring at those fuckable girls off course. And when I say "fuckable", I don't mean "hot".
Lots of girls go to concerts in the city, workplaces in the city, or restaurants, but when the night falls they get the hell out of there. Maybe in the states it's different.
Universities is another thing. Rich girls live on the campus or near the campus; most girls however still live with their parents and come with public transport to the city.

Most guys in the cities don't have pussy, simply because there are no woman. Society tend to "solve" this problem by importing prostitution (25euro / fuck). Most guys rely on their familial cirlce to find a husband; often some unschooled woman from the countryside from africa/turkey.

If you were lucky and you were in a female-rich school and afterwards a female-rich university courses, and then female-rich workplace, and you have some game and good looks, you have pussy.
Girls simply have A LOT of choice and they take the best guys from their direct environment. Most guys here are here because they are outside those female-rich environments.

Where are you?

Are you trying to say there are no girls in Paris or Barcelona?

Quote: (02-21-2013 09:25 AM)Marcellus Wrote:  

(quote)omehow these guys are getting into the right circles and working things a little bit with these broads. Most guys in the world aren't having a shit ton of one-night stands, yet they're not completely pussy deprived either.(/quote)

Tada, we are here. Thank you for bringing up this subject.
When I go to clubs & bars I sometimes wonder how those groups are formed. When I go and ask them it's:
-they went to the same school
-they are collegues
Afterwards they "move" in the same kind of social circles:
-art groups (theater, music, "art" (hipster))
-dancing classes

In european cities there is another problem. Girls don't want to live in big cities. Big cities are mostly male because the prices are lower there and all "male"-jobs are in the city. Lots of males are muslim/turcish/gypsy/black and mostly unemployed and live from wellfare. Because of the huge male population and agressivity in the cities the girls migrate away to smaller places. Girls tend to live and work in the suburbs and small cities.
I was on public transport yesterday and did some statistics:
40 males on tram, 10 extremely ugly females and 2 "fuckable" girls. All males are staring at those fuckable girls off course. And when I say "fuckable", I don't mean "hot".
Lots of girls go to concerts in the city, workplaces in the city, or restaurants, but when the night falls they get the hell out of there. Maybe in the states it's different.
Universities is another thing. Rich girls live on the campus or near the campus; most girls however still live with their parents and come with public transport to the city.

Most guys in the cities don't have pussy, simply because there are no woman. Society tend to "solve" this problem by importing prostitution (25euro / fuck). Most guys rely on their familial cirlce to find a husband; often some unschooled woman from the countryside from africa/turkey.

If you were lucky and you were in a female-rich school and afterwards a female-rich university courses, and then female-rich workplace, and you have some game and good looks, you have pussy.
Girls simply have A LOT of choice and they take the best guys from their direct environment. Most guys here are here because they are outside those female-rich environments.

where the hell are you living?..

I smell a ban in the air. Also, this topic...well what to say? Some cities are just not that good, it's unfair but that's life. Compare Montreal to Toronto. Compare NYC to DC. The Yin and the Yang.

These Toronto threads are like viruses. The amount of different people I have met in Toronto who say the value is overrated and you still have cats claiming this magical formula.

I've met all sorts of people. Black guys from every walk of life in Toronto, white guys, pure blue eyes, blonde hair, Latin guys with rhythm and swag spilling from their pockets, Indians of all looks..and the same theme song was sung.

Roosh came to Toronto and wrote it off never to return..so who are these magical miracle workers who have uncovered the secret formula?

Toronto is a city that is tailored for lizards. It's a city where lizards can consistently punch above their weight. Fat, hairy, short, bare baggage, it doesn't matter, a 4 lizard in Toronto can consistently get 8's.

Even my friend who moved there from Boston told me it's the only city where he's seen fat lizards with decent looking white guys. He said in Boston, good looking white guys refuse to fcuk with whales.

Anyone saying there's a magic formula is like saying you've seen a UFO or the Sasquatch. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

This thread can only end one way...

Curious as to why the OP would start another thread about this subject.

Simply put Roosh has no love for Toronto or DC, what more proof do you need.?

It use to be a great city many years ago, but the tide has turned. Like Moma said it is tailored for "lizards", feminism is very strong here.

My days are numbered here.

Damn, and I thought about moving down there a couple years ago for work. Good thing I didn't. A friend of mine did though about 6 months ago (he works in finance so he naturally gravitated towards Toronto where all the banks are). I should grill him on what the dating scene is like and whether he is getting any.

I wonder how Vancouver compares to Toronto in terms of quality of girls, ease of swooping them, feminism, bitch shields, cockblocking, etc, etc

Quote: (02-21-2013 11:05 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

Quote: (02-21-2013 09:25 AM)Marcellus Wrote:  

(quote)omehow these guys are getting into the right circles and working things a little bit with these broads. Most guys in the world aren't having a shit ton of one-night stands, yet they're not completely pussy deprived either.(/quote)

Tada, we are here. Thank you for bringing up this subject.
When I go to clubs & bars I sometimes wonder how those groups are formed. When I go and ask them it's:
-they went to the same school
-they are collegues
Afterwards they "move" in the same kind of social circles:
-art groups (theater, music, "art" (hipster))
-dancing classes

In european cities there is another problem. Girls don't want to live in big cities. Big cities are mostly male because the prices are lower there and all "male"-jobs are in the city. Lots of males are muslim/turcish/gypsy/black and mostly unemployed and live from wellfare. Because of the huge male population and agressivity in the cities the girls migrate away to smaller places. Girls tend to live and work in the suburbs and small cities.
I was on public transport yesterday and did some statistics:
40 males on tram, 10 extremely ugly females and 2 "fuckable" girls. All males are staring at those fuckable girls off course. And when I say "fuckable", I don't mean "hot".
Lots of girls go to concerts in the city, workplaces in the city, or restaurants, but when the night falls they get the hell out of there. Maybe in the states it's different.
Universities is another thing. Rich girls live on the campus or near the campus; most girls however still live with their parents and come with public transport to the city.

Most guys in the cities don't have pussy, simply because there are no woman. Society tend to "solve" this problem by importing prostitution (25euro / fuck). Most guys rely on their familial cirlce to find a husband; often some unschooled woman from the countryside from africa/turkey.

If you were lucky and you were in a female-rich school and afterwards a female-rich university courses, and then female-rich workplace, and you have some game and good looks, you have pussy.
Girls simply have A LOT of choice and they take the best guys from their direct environment. Most guys here are here because they are outside those female-rich environments.

where the hell are you living?..

Yeah. One of the benefits of feminism (least I think) is that you have all these hot chicks trying to prove themselves worthy by "making it" in a big city. As a result, they become more susceptible for more ONSs being away from all their past influences & circles in this attempt to make a name for themselves. Bigger cities all the way...esp in Europe.

Quote: (02-21-2013 10:47 AM)Jaylow Wrote:  

Ottawa sucks too btw. Every girl has a BF with a 6pack and 60k+ year job. Most work for the government which seems to add another layer of bitch shield for some reason. I have not been to TO in a long time so people complaining about it how do you think Ottawa compares? If its worse I feel so so bad for you guys.

I've met some pretty damn good talent from Ottawa before traveling. Yeah they tend get swooped up quickly by the bad boy alpha males. My witty smart ass sense of humor game would probably not work as well if i lived up there.

I have lived in Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto.

I didn't really take the red pill until the end of my 5 year stay in Vancouver and shortly after moved to Toronto.
I have had the most success in Toronto, probably because my game got better - but I would say Toronto is a good city for hooking up.

Having said that, I've had the most success with girls at pub/bars rather than night clubs. Also, daygame in the midtown (Yonge and Eglinton) area has been pretty successful.

I'm 24, good looking, fit and I share a 3 bedroom townhouse near downtown Toronto with 2 other girls. Logistics are only half decent because my roommates are bitches. Last year marked my best year in Toronto - 18 girls. I have had a few regulars but mostly ONS. I go out 2-3 times a week.

So I wouldn't write Toronto off completely.

Oh boy, where to start:

First, let me address some comments specifcally, then I'll get into my larger thesis.

@ Kosko - I lived there in 2007. I agree things do change.

@rudebwoy - Please show contradictions. Not being snarky, just trying to learn. I agree they take more effort. I also agree that when you're travelling things are better. All that being said, if you live in Toronto and can't travel, you gotta make do, so I was suggesting some things for guys to focus on.

@ guys saying i'm talking about magical formula: Where did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth. All I've said (and this applies to guys in any other city) is that these were some of the things that they might want to consider changing if they aren't having success. Also, none of us are entitled to anything so I stand by the 'shooting to high' element.


Now onto it:

If this came as condescending I apologize, that was not the intent. I'm not some major pimp nor do I claim to be. What prompted me to write this was, like I said, there was a guy complaining that it was hard to meet women b/c they already have 5 lined up. This shows that there is sex to be had out there. The reality is that there are still women in these cities and that they are still having sex, and not all of them are having sex with super studs, so there are things that are holding guys back that they may not be thinking about that they can influence (internal locus of control thinking vs external locus of control thinking where the blame lies solely on conditions outside your control). If you couldn't tell, my biggest point in the post was #2. Essentially expanding your social circle. There was a post on here or another forum that went on about how the bar scene was dead b/c it's mostly just people hanging with their social circle and not meeting anyone else. That was what I was getting at. The game's changing where you need social circle cred a little more. Also, Lemmiwinks has a good point about pubs/bars vs clubs. Definitely better venues for chatting broads up. All i'm trying to do is get guys to think about things in there control that they can change that will help (like rollo said, don't wish the game was easier, wish you were better). They've helped me and do you know where I've lived the past year? The hampton roads area of Virginia. To give you an idea, D.C. is a relative mecca of pussy. It's a highly militarized, highly transient industrial area. So I'll take you're Toronto and raise you my area (hell Roosh has a post about why Virginia beach sucks). Speaking of Roosh in Toronto, he was only there for a few weeks, not really the time to build rapport with some women, and he's used to a European style of pick up so I can see why he didn't like it. I do think Toronto has it's issues in the dating scene and there are better places for sure, but it's still a Tier 1 world city. Think about guys in other areas of the world and their dating situation. FlyFreshandYoung lives in fucking IOWA, and he's still pulling left and right. If I get banned then so be it, but I'm just trying to point out something I felt needed to be addressed with regard to the social circle aspect and how guys should try doing that more vs. bar pick-ups.

I agree with you nek about the social circle aspect of pick-ups. I moved to Toronto not knowing anyone and so I was forced to make new friends. I found over time I had many social circles and I started meeting a lot of girls. Having two roomates as girls also helped and I banged a lot of their friends.


One thing about Toronto is... Yes, the girls are all banging 3-5 other guys.
One more thing - girls with Blackberry's are sluts. (Has that been covered?)

Quote: (02-21-2013 12:14 AM)nek Wrote:  

I get alot of people complain about these cities, and yes I'd agree the attitudes of women in some of them aren't great, but in both cities the women are fucking. For fucks sake we're not talking about marriage here, we're talking about pussy. Smelly, slimy, satisfying pussy. I've seen plenty of wimpy hipster dudes with cute women on their arms in both cities. So they're out there.

I've met some fantastic girls in Toronto that I've ended up banging. One, I still talk to from time to time. She's even visited me in NY.

I go to DC quite frequently, and have also met some great girls. Not as hot as in NYC, but still better than a lot of places. Once again, bangs come later with these girls.

So, I completely agree with you.

The focus on ONS action is a big mistake, especially if you are looking for quality women. This really goes against the dominant theme on this site, so while I agree with you - it's probably not worth it to argue.

Nek - no offense brah but you haven't been here since 07, which is six long years ago. Things have changed alot since then, I myself left in 06 for 5 years and when I returned it felt like a different place.
I don't ever want to be part of a girls harem, If I know a girl is banging other guys then I am out. I had a STD scare recently and I don't want to go through that again. The whole philosphy is to have a harem, not be part of some girl's harem which basically shows who has the power in the Tdot.
Meeting Roosh in Toronto was hilarious, the look on his face was priceless and he was mortified. You say he needs to build rapport, how much time is needed for that? I agree you cannot always go for the ONS but staying in a city for weeks just to get some play, not my idea of a great time.
Yes, I agree wholeheartdly you have to increase your boundaries and find your niche. Again though I am not tied to this place and have experienced "pussy" paradise's in other places, my motivation for Toronto is low. Maybe if I were stuck here then I would make more of an effort, as Roosh wrote "you need to go where your penis is happy".
One last thing, Toronto is not a tier 1 city. It is not in the same league as NYC, London, Tokyo, Moscow etc, it is considered a tier 2 city and there lies alot of the problem. People here, girls especially think this place is the center of the universe which probably explains the inflated ego's.
Don't want to come across like a whining willy, all the power to the guys that like living here.

I think most of the guys here who talk about Toronto being difficult have legitimate points and are spot-on. I have never had a ONS in Toronto due to bad logistics and I find that girls here are incredibly attached to their groups and will not leave with you. That's just my experience.

I run "old-school" game where I collect numbers and just try to set-up dates. I will admit, I do get a lot of flakes but it does work and that's the only way I am going to meet and bang new girls. I also rely heavily on social circle to meet new girls and find that girls in social circle definitely are more open and the bitch shield is almost non-existent.

Most guys here are right in that girls in Toronto are hard to deal with and the entire city is a bastion of political correctness.

I also think some forum members misinterpret when they hear Toronto members complain about the women here. Of course, you can get laid but the work you have to put in to bang a 5 or 6 is not worth it. 7s and 8s act like you can't even touch them. Looks wise, I have banged higher quality girls from social circle than pick up.

Either way, this has been discussed to death. It is what it is.