Quote: (10-12-2012 06:36 AM)Pacesetter20 Wrote:  

Quote: (10-12-2012 04:20 AM)megatron Wrote:  

could you please explain speakeasys chart for me? is it total bs?

It's not complete B.S. it is just misleading. Look at the dates, it doesn't take into account when they went into office, but allowed a 1 year gap for their policies to take affect, which is debateable, but this is like saying that 9/11 is Clinton's fault because it technically occured during FY2001, whose budget was appoved by Clinton.

Plus it covers FY13 (for Obama), which just started.

Obama could rape goats and sacrifice little children, and speakeasy would still defend him . Stop wasting your time.

Quote: (10-12-2012 08:09 AM)painter Wrote:  

Biden stirred up the democrat base but chased away females and independants with his obnoxious performance.

Females and independents are thrilled that Ryan said he'd outlaw abortion, huh?

Nice job - looks like you hit all the right wing talking points.

Quote: (10-12-2012 04:20 AM)megatron Wrote:  

Quote: (10-12-2012 03:53 AM)Pacesetter20 Wrote:  

Quote: (10-12-2012 02:16 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Quote: (10-12-2012 12:24 AM)megatron Wrote:  

On Economic issues, Ryan kicked Biden's ass. All he had to do was remind how Obama has failed to "cut the deficit in half" like he promised he would.

That's not Obama's fault. If Bush's tax cuts had been allowed to expire like Obama had planned, that is what would have happened. Remember when the Republicans blackmailed the economy over the debt limit issue and forced the tax cuts to remain? It's ironic that Ryan could blame Obama for this when it was because of Republicans that this happened.

Quote:Quote:

He reiterated how more government programs, more spending has stifled economic growth. And he's mostly right.

You are buying into Republican talking points. They've repeated the "Obama spends like a drunk sailor" mantra so many times that people just accept it as fact. Do a bit of fact checking before making such claims:

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-05-...ken-sailor



The greatest spending has actually occurred under Republicans despite whatever bullshit they try to say...The numbers don't lie.

Regardless of what skewed/misleading stats you are presenting, when President Barack Obama took the oath of office on Jan. 20, 2009, the total federal debt held by the public stood at 6.3073 trillion, according to the Bureau of the Public Debt, a division of the U.S. Treasury Department. Today, the debt is north of 16 trillion, an increase of 10 trillion dollars in less than four years.

The other point, most of Obama's spending increases (Obamacare) haven't even kicked in yet.

Question, if Obama hasn't increased spending, how did he rack up $10 trillion dollars worth of debt in under four years?

could you please explain speakeasys chart for me? is it total bs?

2 unfunded wars between 2000-2008 + massive tax cut to 1%. Economy goes into tailspin before you leave office. Bill comes due for your successor. What do you think?

Quote: (10-12-2012 01:41 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

Quote: (10-12-2012 08:09 AM)painter Wrote:  

Biden stirred up the democrat base but chased away females and independants with his obnoxious performance.

Females and independents are thrilled that Ryan said he'd outlaw abortion, huh?

Nice job - looks like you hit all the right wing talking points.

Actually those are CNN talking points. The Republican talking points are Biden throwing the intelligence community under the bus, his ignorance about the fiasco in Libya and providing security to the ambassador, saying he didn't vote for the wars when he did, and the total failure of leadership in the White House.

Guess it's time for more damage control.

The biggest tell that Biden won the debate is to compare the reactions from either side.

Some lines of argument I've heard from Republicans today: Biden was rude and disrespectful; he laughed, smirked, and interrupted too much; the moderator was on his side; Ryan did a good job on Libya and Syria; the debate was a draw.

Some lines from Democrats: Ryan got his ass handed to him; Biden was passionate and brutally honest; Biden didn't let Ryan get away with his bullshit; Biden scored a lot of points with women in the abortion exchange; Biden won hands down.

That should tell you all you need to know. Besides the obvious asymmetry in Democrats claiming a win and Republicans claiming a draw, notice that the commentary is all about Biden (whether positive or negative) and hardly at all about Ryan; also, the fact that Republicans are championing Ryan's performance on issues like Syria that almost nobody will vote on is a big giveaway that they don't think he won on the more salient issues. I still don't think it will move the polls much, though--vice presidential debates rarely have a large effect on the outcome of the election.

Biden did a good thing for Democrats, but possibly a bad thing for Obama. Now people will (and should) hold Obama to a higher standard: your VP can bring it, what about you? Maybe Obama doesn't even give a shit. I mean, he will make millions after he's done being president.

I'm all into self-improvement and getting in shape etc. but, c'mon: this guy in these pictures?

Do you want him to be your master?

A bit of history about first debates:

Incumbent Gerald Ford lost to challenger Jimmy Carter.

Incumbent Carter lost to challenger Ronald Reagan.

Incumbent Reagan lost badly to Walter Mondale.

Incumbent George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton.

Many thought incumbent George W. Bush lost to John Kerry.

Clinton is an exception. He had no problem beating down Bob Dole.

It's not uncommon for incumbents to lose to challengers.

But last night, Biden made me cringe. Smiling and laughing so much looked unprofessional. It was also distracting when you're trying to focus on what's being said.

I thought he had two specific moments that helped his performance:

One, he hit Ryan upside the head for criticizing stimulus money, but he himself asked for stimulus money for his state because in his words, it would help create jobs.

Two, as usual, Ryan had few specifics when pressed on how he and his partner will pay for their proposed tax cuts.

At the same time, Biden didn't make a compelling argument for why they should retain the office.

Reagan lost to Mondale?

Quote: (10-12-2012 04:25 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

Reagan lost to Mondale?

He got stomped. And it led to a significant drop in the polls for Reagan.

Tbone,

You need to fix that history of yours. Ronald Reagan (an incumbent) beat Walter Mondale in what I believe was the biggest Presidential election landslide in American history, which still stands to this day.

Quote: (10-12-2012 04:27 PM)Technics Wrote:  

Tbone,

You need to fix that history of yours. Ronald Reagan (an incumbent) beat Walter Mondale in what I believe was the biggest Presidential election landslide in American history, which still stands to this day.

I'm talking about debates, not elections. My bad if I didn't make that clear. I made the edit.

Tbone,

I see. In that case, I have no comment.

Watch him destroy Romney/Ryan here as Ryan looks on sheepishly.

All Ryan had to do was let Biden talk (and laugh, grimace, smile, chuckle, and chortle) and make an ass of himself. All he did last night was lock up the moron vote.

Your average Republican voter right here:

Quote: (10-12-2012 04:50 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  

Your average Republican voter right here:

There's just no reaching those (depressingly numerous) people...at all.

The sheer, unadulterated ignorance (and likely bigotry-"not like us" my ass) makes it impossible.

Quote: (10-12-2012 04:50 PM)painter Wrote:  

All Ryan had to do was let Biden talk (and laugh, grimace, smile, chuckle, and chortle) and make an ass of himself. All he did last night was lock up the moron vote.

You're voting for him? Cool

Quote: (10-12-2012 04:50 PM)painter Wrote:  

All Ryan had to do was let Biden talk (and laugh, grimace, smile, chuckle, and chortle) and make an ass of himself. All he did last night was lock up the moron vote.

Ryan letting Biden talk

Quote: (10-12-2012 04:18 PM)soup Wrote:  

I'm all into self-improvement and getting in shape etc. but, c'mon: this guy in these pictures?

Do you want him to be your master?

Dude looks like a buffer, gayer version of Screech from Saved By the Bell.

Average Democrat voter:

I couldn't finish watching the VP debate because it was so agonizing, but I thought Biden had more impressive style. Ryan came off more like a dork.

The problem (in my view) is that Romney is totally right - foreclosures and bankrupticies are totally necessary in order to keep the economy healthy. Unsuccessful contracts will terminate themselves, but what Biden is really arguing for is to keep these unsuccessful deals alive a little longer to alleviate the grief and pain their failure causes. Essentially kicking the can down the road. Doing this decouples reward from risk and leads to unsustainable behavior, like excessive risk-taking on Wall St, because everyone is going to believe Wall St is "too big to fail". Risk-premiums decrease and business deals that would not fly in a normal environment are possible because financing is cheaper.

Romney, as a private equity man, totally understands that most of our economic problems today are due to kicking the can down the road the past two-three decades. The problems of tomorrow will be too. Obama seems to believe that the power of government and wishful thinking can turn a host of bad business ideas into good ones. In the final analysis, that thinking is fundamentally flawed and absolutely commonplace among college academics and many economists too (like Krugman). These guys never read or understood Smith, Bastiat and Say and think Keynes somehow had the final word.

A successful, sustainable economic system requires that a continous rejuvination where those contracts that do well are renewed, and the ones that failed are buried. The choice is between a move towards a system where reward and risk again go hand-in-hand vs more of the last 20-30 years of can-kicking, quick-fixes and junkie behavior.

Bush and Obama are both socialists.

Quote: (10-12-2012 05:16 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Quote: (10-12-2012 04:18 PM)soup Wrote:  

I'm all into self-improvement and getting in shape etc. but, c'mon: this guy in these pictures?

Do you want him to be your master?

Dude looks like a buffer, gayer version of Screech from Saved By the Bell.

Are these real? When I first saw them I thought they were definitely photoshopped.

I can't believe that VP candidate would take pictures that make him look so unpresidential. Seriously look at that idiotic grin on his face. At the very least, it shows a serious lack of judgement. Wow, just wow. Idiotic beyond belief.