Hey Guys, I live in Kiev. How's Dockers? The last time I was there (about 4-5 years ago the bouncers made a big deal about not having a free table even though I was solo and just wanted to stand by the bar). Ukainians have a thing about having a place to sit. Hang out, standing at the bar or just mingling about doesn't seem to be part of their DNA. Must be from Soviet times, the neccessity of having to have a table filled with food and doing vodka toasts all night long. What's the action like there now, might head over this weekend.

"Ukraine is really quite easy, especially Odessa. Go to Odessa in the summer, everyone, even Ukrainians go there to let go. International game should work there."
Wow, how can you be so off? Kamiki will back me. Odessa is the WORST city in FSU to game girls, they have had foreigners around since soviet days and alot of rich males and females live there .My wifes friend there says sex and the city is reallistic display of life in Odessa. LOL, that show has made women worst in America. In the summer tourists can be gamed but most are not going to be impressed by you, they have money. Odessa is very expensive.

From this thread alone Alex gets my seal of approval as one of the more legit guys on the board Regarding Ukraine. Others have talked about how they are doing in the country but not reached this level of details and insight.

+1

For those of you thinking "Whats this no game dude doing? Investing 3 dates in a girl and not even a makeout? Must be a beta Schlump."

This is shy blonde in her work clothes after a dentist operation an hour earlier (no one would look at their best), without a scrap of makeup and with that luscious blonde hair tied back hard. Give her an extra point if she actually made an effort to look glam. I called her an 8.5 to be modest but shes a 9 in my book. Again this picture is up for 12 hours so regulars can get an idea of the talent I am working. Those tits are very generous. This is marlin fishing boys and theres no room for error. I seriously thought she was a bond girl walking up to me until I recognised it was her.

Before you mention it: Yes i'm not happy with her slightly slanting away body language, she claims she didn't realise she did it - and yes I need to get back in the gym and start working out again. These are my off duty clothes as she surprised me meeting up early. Expected to be able to get back to my flat for my jacket, pocket square and Jermyn Street shirt.

4 dates now with her now and a tiny bit more play - update to follow.

For OP, I liked your post alot. Took alot of effort. I haven't gamed Ukraine in 10 years s o things have changed. I assume they are more westernized now and have more money .I assume foreigners are less exoctic now and even an annoyance. Ukrainians are xenophobic not freindly like Poles. However, I am still married to a Ukrainian girl i met when i lived in Kiev . She is from Odessa ,and was a 9, so I atleast know alot about the Russian soul thingy.

As DEB said game isnt needed in ukraine. or not the stuff taught in BANG. It actually will backfire more than not. For one thing, humor is very important in game theory ,Ukrainian/Russian humor is much different than ours .Its very dark and all about antedotes. I do not understand it even after my wife explains it. Become fluent and you will still be at a lost culturally. Bang says do not buy drinks for girl or gifts , well reality check, YOU MUST DO SO. They see money as a disposable thing to throw around to enjoy life. If you make 100 bucks a month you must spend it. Ivan is forgive n for not making more as long as hes GENEROUS. Generous is like the most important word in thier language. You are a foreigner so it is assumed you make 5-10k a month. So they believe you are cheap if you aren't spending it. In Brooklyn ,NYC , same crap they spend more tha n they have, on status stuff.

Since they are embracing westernization ,I can imagine its much worst now because they are combining American superficial and materialistic ideas with thier own medieval - soviet mentality. At heart all FSU girls are daydreaming for thier prince charming, which means they want flowers and chocolates , also since they now have AMerican materialism alot expect perfume etc. Its a trade. They do not have sex with strangers becasue they WANT sex, they want the love and romance that comes with it. Infact to tell a friend of thiers they fucked a guy would make no sense to friends . Immediately friend s would expect 1. forming LTR. 2. she got paid(gift or money) or 3. she was forced, raped, drunk ,etc. Believe it or not #3 is often the case with locals. Sure there are liberated women,my wife was ,however they are the minority. Oh , And my wife told me later she had a rule no sex until 30 days, so just like western women they also read books and come up with stupid rules.
So what does that mean? for one throw Bang out the door. For confidence building and learning approach its great. However go on a date with ukrainian and do not give her compliments? NEVER. She expects it. They think Russian/ Ukrainian guys are ALPHAS because they show no fear and do what they want ,while foreigners act like women. Being a MAN to the m is being ruthless aka PUTIN tough, not witholding compliments or gentlemanly manners. Russain guys pick up thier girls using compliments and offering fun, that includes gifts. Long time ago dating foreigners gave social status, now it doesnt, this is in my opinion our biggest obstacle. If you gave them an increase in percieved social status , you can game them without the promise of LTR. We use t o be treated like rock stars. I lived there when that period just died. However, in 2nd tier cities it was still so. So my advice would be go to city other than Kiev, where we might still give thme status and rent a car. Cars see m to be#1 status item in Ukraine last i checked and in smaller cities a non LADA wins points. Yes English language is important. However, the girls who do tend to have experience with English speakers,which means they GAME US. Lastly use direct game,not indirect game ,even though SHE may be flaky and indirect .Let her know you find her attractive and are with her as man and women NOT English practice, etc. otherwise you may be taekn for a long ride ,which if you are long term there ,may work out ,but for the time constrained ,NYET.

The girl looks typical slavic.An 8 by Ukrainian standards.You are dressed very poorly.It will take you long if you are dressed like that.Probably you stay in hotel Ukraine or an apartment near the centre and very likely you run daygame in Globus in front of which you stay at the photo.
All the girls you show are from internet contacts.(V kontakte?) and you did not tell them about romantic interest but about sth else which I do not know.(it is skewd selection not representative of what one gets in Kiev if hits randomly clubs or Kreshatik for instance).

Damn fine post jimukr104 - masses of value for FSU hounds on understanding the mentality of the ladies here.

Kamaki: I run daygame in various superb locations, none of which I feel like sharing LOL. Kreshatic, the obvious place for Daygame, is one of the worst places IMO due to the sex pest defences the girls have. I get far more play elsewhere. Reread my post on clothes, I was caught unawares, hence the backpack (containing all my personally redacted game notes, priceless to me).

VK, MAMBA etc is only recommended for pre-arrival pipelining. Once you're here, date the best from pipelining but quickly move to working the local talent. I need to emphasise this strongly. My N1 mistake in Kiev has been wasting an inordinate amount of time administrating the mountains of numbers I got through very precisely executed online game, when I should be daygaming the local talent. The pipelining alone was over 30 hours work at least. A ridiculous time investment.

BAB - again I agree with the Greek (wow) your outfit is terrible, look how she is dressed and you look like a tourist. I would start wearing those Jermyn Dress shirts and get some proper shoes/jeans, lose the backpack.

She is nice looking and thanks for sharing those pics.

None of the girls you have shown is through daygame or nightgame.They come all from the internet.

Quote: (09-26-2012 04:31 PM)BigAlexBoss Wrote:  

Damn fine post jimukr104 - masses of value for FSU hounds on understanding the mentality of the ladies here.

Kamaki: I run daygame in various superb locations, none of which I feel like sharing LOL. Kreshatic, the obvious place for Daygame, is one of the worst places IMO due to the sex pest defences the girls have. I get far more play elsewhere. Reread my post on clothes, I was caught unawares, hence the backpack (containing all my personally redacted game notes, priceless to me).

VK, MAMBA etc is only recommended for pre-arrival pipelining. Once you're here, date the best from pipelining but quickly move to working the local talent. I need to emphasise this strongly. My N1 mistake in Kiev has been wasting an inordinate amount of time administrating the mountains of numbers I got through very precisely executed online game, when I should be daygaming the local talent. The pipelining alone was over 30 hours work at least. A ridiculous time investment.

I am sure that you run daygame in Globus.Many foreigners do the same.Also in Mc Donalds near Kreshatik and in some pizzerias.And in some shops with mobiles.There are not many big department stores in the center.
Good places are also some bus strations.All metro stations in the center are quite good but there is high danger of theft.Kreshatik is very good in the evening when couples of girls walk by or sit in the benches.You noticed how Ukrainian guys come with beers in hand and sit next to them.

Quote: (09-26-2012 03:36 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

"Ukraine is really quite easy, especially Odessa. Go to Odessa in the summer, everyone, even Ukrainians go there to let go. International game should work there."
Wow, how can you be so off? Kamiki will back me. Odessa is the WORST city in FSU to game girls, they have had foreigners around since soviet days and alot of rich males and females live there .My wifes friend there says sex and the city is reallistic display of life in Odessa. LOL, that show has made women worst in America. In the summer tourists can be gamed but most are not going to be impressed by you, they have money. Odessa is very expensive.

I agree that Odessa is not so easy.

But in general Ukraine is a pretty easy place to get laid. The OP says that he is going after 8.5 plus i think, it's its never going to be a walk in the park anywhere with these girls.

I love gaming chicks on Kreschetik, that street is like heaven for me.

Quote: (09-26-2012 04:49 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

I am sure that you run daygame in Globus.Many foreigners do the same.Also in Mc Donalds near Kreshatik and in some pizzerias.And in some shops with mobiles.There are not many big department stores in the center.
Good places are also some bus strations.All metro stations in the center are quite good but there is high danger of theft.Kreshatik is very good in the evening when couples of girls walk by or sit in the benches.You noticed how Ukrainian guys come with beers in hand and sit next to them.

Yeah, Kreshatik is very nice for evening game when it's warm out. Tons of younger girls mulling about with guys playing old Soviet songs on the guitar. I found it to be much better than the main square talent-wise and reception-wise.

Quote: (09-26-2012 03:36 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

"Ukraine is really quite easy, especially Odessa. Go to Odessa in the summer, everyone, even Ukrainians go there to let go. International game should work there."
Wow, how can you be so off? Kamiki will back me. Odessa is the WORST city in FSU to game girls, they have had foreigners around since soviet days and alot of rich males and females live there .My wifes friend there says sex and the city is reallistic display of life in Odessa. LOL, that show has made women worst in America. In the summer tourists can be gamed but most are not going to be impressed by you, they have money. Odessa is very expensive.

I don't think anyone could say that Ukraine was easy unless they spoke Russian at least conversationally. And then it there's things like age-to-wealth ratio, looks, and vibe. The girls I was banging were on the level with the girl Vorkuta posted, similar look and level of hotness. I never really attempted a girl like the first one that Big Alex put up, she's a real stunner and I wouldn't be surprised if oligarchs are trying to hit that.

I thought Odessa had hotter girls than Kiev but required you to spend more money at more expensive clubs/restaurants to hit and we're also more flakey. Though I did get my only ONS in Ukraine there.

BAB, I don't mean to add to the criticism about how you are dressed but why even dress that way at all? I wouldn't even pack cloths like thy if I were on a mission to nail 8s and above. I think she's gorgeous and I like the shape of her body. Hope you can pull it off.

BigAlexBoss, most of your photos got taken down.

Quote: (09-26-2012 05:15 PM)Blunt Wrote:  

Quote: (09-26-2012 03:36 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

"Ukraine is really quite easy, especially Odessa. Go to Odessa in the summer, everyone, even Ukrainians go there to let go. International game should work there."
Wow, how can you be so off? Kamiki will back me. Odessa is the WORST city in FSU to game girls, they have had foreigners around since soviet days and alot of rich males and females live there .My wifes friend there says sex and the city is reallistic display of life in Odessa. LOL, that show has made women worst in America. In the summer tourists can be gamed but most are not going to be impressed by you, they have money. Odessa is very expensive.

I don't think anyone could say that Ukraine was easy unless they spoke Russian at least conversationally. And then it there's things like age-to-wealth ratio, looks, and vibe. The girls I was banging were on the level with the girl Vorkuta posted, similar look and level of hotness. I never really attempted a girl like the first one that Big Alex put up, she's a real stunner and I wouldn't be surprised if oligarchs are trying to hit that.

I thought Odessa had hotter girls than Kiev but required you to spend more money at more expensive clubs/restaurants to hit and we're also more flakey. Though I did get my only ONS in Ukraine there.

Ok I think from what people have said we can safely say that game goes out of the window in Ukraine.

So what are we left with?, looks and money.

A decent looking, well dressed guy in Kiev is going to do well. Good clothes in Ukraine means the guy is wealthy, whereas in the West it means nothing, a guy in an Armani suit can be stacking shelves in a Supermarket.

"I don't speak English" in Europe is a classic brush off, sorry guys but when they tell you this most of the time it's because they are not interested. If they are, then they will speak to you in the ten words of English they know.

I know guys who have spoken Zero Russian in Ukraine who have cleared up.

I can see if nicer clothes are needed to hook up with the 9's and 10's in Ukraine who are being chased by every slick guy in town, but I wouldn't say he is dressed poorly. Maybe Ukraine is the exception, but those clothes are fine for casual daygaming in most places, including DC. Even with the backpack, he can tear it up in a coffee shop, bookstore, mall, etc if his game is tight. His jeans fit, his shirt fits (he could work out a bit) and he has a good complexion. He doesn't look like a slob.

Nighttime is different story. He can tighten up his style and wear something dapper and clean up with the 9's.

This is why putting up pictures is sometimes not a good idea. I doubt that the difficulties BAB is experiencing have anything to do with a chance encounter of him wearing something other than slick clothes. BTW girls are easily 8-9, simply beautiful. Just keep going, you will figure it out.

It's nice to see a guy posting photos on here.

Some of the self-proclaimed players on here have zero to back up their declarations

I disagree guys. I'm not saying he has to be dressed "slick" but dressing a little more refined than a backpacker would probably at least make him stand out in a positive way. Right now I see nothing that makes him look more than average. I'm not a fashionista but some cool shoes, skinny jeans, a v neck and a badass jacket would be just as comfortable and he'd look good enough to walk into most places during the day. Her body language does say "I don't want people who see this photo to think we're together".

Fisto, I do agree with the body language explanation. BAB said he was just caught off guard and normally would not dress like this. BAB now you have to put on some nice clothes and take another picture.

Quote: (09-26-2012 05:48 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

I disagree guys. I'm not saying he has to be dressed "slick" but dressing a little more refined than a backpacker would probably at least make him stand out in a positive way. Right now I see nothing that makes him look more than average. I'm not a fashionista but some cool shoes, skinny jeans, a v neck and a badass jacket would be just as comfortable and he'd look good enough to walk into most places during the day. Her body language does say "I don't want people who see this photo to think we're together".

I agree with you Fisto.
My message above was more in disagreement that he was dressed poorly. I think he could certainly tighten it up a bit, but I don't think he looked like a slob or anything.

Regardless, he's got the blonde on his shoulder..and good Lord is she fucking fine.

"The girls here are completely disillusioned with their country.
80% of them want out (excluding the 9s and 10s) and they dream of a future in Western Europe."

It was bullshit in 1998(crash) and i bet its more bullshit now. It seems native local males always believe thier ow nwomen want out and thats why foreigners are king there. i saw the same loca lguys thinking that back in 2000, however its maybe only like 5% at msot who consider leaving. Even the marriage agencies at the height got less than 1% of the population and it was the mothers over the age of 30.
Most females in my opinion over there love thier country and at best look at going overseas for an extended holiday or a short time job assignment. Thier real dream TBH is to make western salary in Ukraine. In the last 10 years the loyalty to country has increased fro m what I have read and heard.
Guys went to marriage agencies 10 years ag othinking same nonsense , that the girls needed rescuiing and guesswhat?it wasn't true for majority.
They liked foreighners 1. heard they have money 2. exotic and 3. various other reasons. Now 10 years later they do not think we are exotic anymore. Also even back i n the height of when chicks wanted out, majority were peasant girls from smaller cities not LUXURY Kiev or Odessa.
You also mentioned Americans arent doing s owell anymore? I am curious why? 10 years ago American was number 1, that was thier first locatio n they wanted. Simply becasue with so many Russian girls here they already had connections.I remember after sept 11 they were scared of coming here for a few months . However I never heard of Uk beating out usa. Simply more job opportunities and they heard it was easier to get gov't beenfits here. Heck my wife overheard a neighbor last night talking to another neighbor(i am in Brooklyn atm, its like being in Russia here)about how its not worth it t o work becasue of losing gov't assistant. I do see an advantage to the m moving to Europe however since they ultimately will want t o go bac k to Ukraine and its closer .Alot of girls married Turkish guys,whom, they always say they dislike, to be closer to Ukraine. i lost an old girlfriend because of that, long story. As for them wanting other white European nationalities , i woudl think it be hard. Two nationalities both talking English as a second language can be a disaster at times. They love Germans because Germans always were very generous. They the least cheap when on holiday, it impresses girls. Seriously , girls aren't looking for passports ,they are looking for the green behind it.
I just asked my wife about this topic, she said from her newspapers seems Ukrainians think Europe is falling apart and are afraid t ogo there. Sounds like a few years ag o when Bush invaded Iraq they thought USA was falling apart. it seems the last 10 years have been a swing in thier political beliefs back and forth .one day they love Ukraine ,next day they want out, then they want t o stay. i really think the OP would better game the girls by coming across romantic and as if hes not a sex tourist and i eve nhave an idea how he can move on the girl with the boyfriend.

OP YOU LISTENING? this will be daring but i know someone who won out using this approach. Basically another reason they like older Westerners was always that they have Heard we are better i n relationships and bed and that they ca n lear n from us. i mean if SEX AND THE CITY is one of thier favorite shows what that show you? Do not compete with her bf, INSTEAD let it be known that spending time wtih you is a learning experience. Without getting into specifics ,I am sure you get what LESSONS I am talking about. RussianUkrainians are less lazy than American women whe n it comes to learning studying .They are always learning something new or want to. They always want to learn things that wil make the more competitive with other women. This includes cooking, sewing dancing and sex. half of what they are reading is about how t obe a better women. if she can associate cheating as something that will benefit her, of her family or bf she might. Alot of girls wh oare normal actually do amauteur pay for pplay simply becasue its an excuse to justify it .I have known girls who justified cheating on BF's because it was for money ,presents etc. Well guess what? lessons cost also. Thier instructors do it al lthe time.

Quote:Quote:

They love Germans because Germans always were very generous. They the least cheap when on holiday, it impresses girls. Seriously , girls aren't looking for passports ,they are looking for the green behind it.

Strange because the Germans are known to be the cheap skates of Europe, so what makes them splash the cash when in Ukraine?

LOL ,Not sure ,except alot of the highly paid expats were Germans. There was a large German expat community.I think an advantage they had was that they bought their cars over with them. Back then 90% cars on road were old beat up lada's, as you can see in photo's thats changed . My cousin is a waitress in Hawaii she says all European tourist don't tip correctly.

For a bit of old news,Kreshatik was voted year after year back in 2001,2002, etc as best pickup location in Kiev. This was in Kiev Post. The number #1 pickup line was"hello, do you speak English?"
Someone wrote earlier that saying "NO" to speaking English is a well known non interest line i n Europe. Problem with FSU countries is that such a small amount of girls speak english. Also girls often do not want to lose face be speaking bad english with someone they do not know well. Heck you just opened her in the street, she has no reason to be interested in you,lol.

Yes money and appearance has to carry alot of the approach there. I say appearance and not looks. There is a difference. In Western society girls go by looks, as in how we fit thier ideal type or fantasy,alot of it is media/hollywood driven. Alot of our media unfortunately is brainwashing the m also .However thier type is different than the typical pretty boy American girls swoon over. More or less , after seeing some of the short chubby guys they swoon for I figured it out, that its appearance that wins. Short bald chubby guy(Eastern Europeans do not like chubby,slim is in)in a Hugo Boss suit, gucci shoes and Rolex trumps ME in my Movado, Calvin Klien shoes, etc. God forbid you are very goodlooking and look like a palyer, girls will avoid you. LOL, Girls avoided my young good looks. Seriously ,i use t o see clean cut Russian guys in those grey /black thug /bouncer suits standing in front of shiny BMW'S hitting on chicks walking by. They wouldn't even look. An older guy with some AGE in a plain business suit or sweater hit on them ,they were friendly. i heard its because girls there were avoiding the obvious man whores. They do not want thier guy being so capable with the ladies. Not sure if that changed . However, the girls who liked me the most,including my wife, chased me when I was in leather jacket,etc. When i was looking a million bucks, clubs were only place i had girls being really receptive, and those places attracted girls looking for foreigners,etc. I should also add that Mopeds from Odessa was considered COOL one year, so I bought one. I swear, every time" I TURNED AROUND THERE WAS A HOT BLOND OR 2 ON THE BACK"WTF?. My point is the culture is very fad driven. Now cars are cool. If you have the hard to get fad, whatever it may be,you rack up points. Stupid but true.