Quote: (06-17-2012 04:42 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:
Put me on ignore then Athlone.
You think I'm going to run away from you and let your misinformation flow into perpetuity?
If you are going to attack my intellect and my reputation, then you should aim properly, and you should expect me to make sure you do.
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Bottom line is that what has just been confirmed in this thread is the same shit I have been saying to both you and Speakeasy for a very long time across multiple threads now. You chose not to believe it because of your own misguided prejudice and racist mistrust. You were not given new information here, you were given information your already had. It just came from a source that to both of you had more credibility because you based the validity of the persons opinion on the colour of their skin only. Nothing else at all.
Three quick points-I do not have the time or the energy for the rest of this.
1. We have had two major discussions. The first pertained to
apartheid in South Africa and whether or not it was necessary. The second pertained to
Nazi attitudes regarding slavs, and the commitment of Nazi atrocities in the Ukraine during WW2. The formation of my conclusions in both instances was based on my own inquiry and interpretation of evidence available, not on your race. I mistrusted you because I don't agree with you, not because you are white.
I continue to stand fully behind all that I have said in each of those discussions to this day. I'll alter that stance when you give me a good reason to do so (hint: your becoming a black man would not satisfy this requirement).
2. You claim here that I have already given full backing to the source speakeasy posted. You posit that I have in the past denied claims regarding the safety of the Ukraine for someone like myself when they were presented by reputable posters (this is correct-I have done this, as I will soon show). Now you insist that I have done a complete 180 degree turn as a result of one anecdote, dropping my old opinion regarding the safety of Ukraine for minorities simply because said anecdote was presented by a black male.
This is quite the accusation (one could call it an insult, actually)-you stand and accuse me now of blatant discrimination, claiming that all of my opinions are determined by the race of those I respond to, rather than on my own observation and reason.
Bold as it is, such an accusation is fair to make if you have the evidence to back it up, so I'll ask you: Where in this thread did I make the endorsement of that anecdote that you claim I did? Where is the evidence of my opinion having switched so dramatically as a result of any one anecdote? Did I say what you now claim I did ("Oh, a black man's anecdote-I suppose, then, that the Ukraine is not so bad after all!")? Or are you putting words in my mouth and painting the picture you prefer to see as opposed to the one that is actually in front of you?
To help you out, I'll cite a brief history of my own opinions regarding the Ukraine and Russia (created long before our little debate):
Here
Here
As you can see, I was skeptical of the Ukraine (and Russia) as a safe/worthwhile destination for folks like myself before, and
I remain skeptical now. Those posts also show that I have never put Poland in the same category, invalidating any idea that media portrayals, such as the full BBC documentary I posted up the page, govern my views as you claim they do (if they did, I'd claim to wish to avoid Poland too).
That anecdote has not changed my mind about the safety of the Ukraine or Russia. Again, if you think I've stated otherwise (you obviously do), then show it, please. I'll wait.
3...
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Experienced members of this forum who had spent a great deal of time there have been called outright bullshitters when stating exactly what Speakeasy just repeated. And here we have it. Straight from a black mans mouth, and its all good now? Must be ok then?
Once again, I missed the post in which I made this statement. Point it out for me, will you?