I wonder how much working out to get big arm muscles matters if your shoulder width is below average.

girls like big bicepts

you like girls with nice bodies right?

girls like guys with nice bodies

It's not so simplistic.

As far as static physical things go, I believe that girls are looking at height first. Symmetry of the face, and if he has good hair. Then- width of shoulders, thickness of wrists, shoe size- indicators of dick size or dominant size or whatever.

Most all dudes have a solid V-taper in their upper bodies if they had no gut and bulked up their lats and shoulders.
I wouldn't worry about it if your clothes are cut decent.

Quote: (05-17-2012 01:56 AM)soup Wrote:  

I wonder how much working out to get big arm muscles matters if your shoulder width is below average.

having narrow shoulders (small joints) is awesome for bodybuilding. bodybuilding relies heavily on illusions. the narrower your shoulders and the smaller your elbows and wrists, the easier it is to look big. as you begin to get a fully developed physique (and stay shredded) you look huge with no/tight fitting clothes but look pretty normal in work clothes, etc. the key is to develop all of your muscles equally and really concentrate on the separation between the muscles. the more distinct the separation between your bicep and deltoid, etc the bigger you appear. for good separation you need to stay lean and focus on form more than weight, so that you get a full range of motion and strong contraction at the top of the rep.

if you think you look too narrow, you will really need to focus on your medial deltoid (the part of the shoulder on the side) by doing heaps of laterals and upright rows.

im 6'0" and weigh about 195. at work wearing dress clothes you can tell i lift but i dont look like a meathead. i think people guess my weight is 180-190.

at the gym with a tank on people regularly say i look 220.

Given a below average shoulder width:

* Big arms are more attractive than small, fragile arms.
* Pumped up shoulders are more attractive than no muscle.

Yes, big arms look better on a guy with a broad frame. But you can't change your frame and have to work with what you got.

When your triceps and biceps are pronounced, and a sharp line between your upper arm and your shoulder muscles, you will look good.

You can always compare yourself to bigger guys and be discontent, but the only meaningful (and effective) strategy is comparing yourself to yourself in both your worst and best form, and strive for the latter.

Quote: (05-17-2012 01:56 AM)soup Wrote:  

I wonder how much working out to get big arm muscles matters if your shoulder width is below average.

lol, Workout Denialist.

if you weren't an established member i'd think you were

if you have narrow shoulders you need to focus on bench press and deadlifts to fill them out. maybe barbell rows as well to get your traps bigger.
bench press can also help with your deltoids and lats as they help stabilise.

there is no type of body frame that doesnt look better with some muscle on it. having muscle is never a downside. so get in that free weights room!

Quote: (05-17-2012 09:04 AM)Walnuts Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2012 01:56 AM)soup Wrote:  

I wonder how much working out to get big arm muscles matters if your shoulder width is below average.

lol, Workout Denialist.

if you weren't an established member i'd think you were

if you have narrow shoulders you need to focus on bench press and deadlifts to fill them out. maybe barbell rows as well to get your traps bigger.
bench press can also help with your deltoids and lats as they help stabilise.

there is no type of body frame that doesnt look better with some muscle on it. having muscle is never a downside. so get in that free weights room!

Ha- not denying the importance of working out, just trying to manage my time more efficiently. I think everyone needs to stay in shape and be cut in some way. I'll try some of those exercises.

When I look at a girl, I mostly look for proportions (like hip to waist ratio etc.). Her actual size doesn't matter as to me. I wonder if girls assess our physiques in a similar way.

Quote: (05-17-2012 09:13 AM)soup Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2012 09:04 AM)Walnuts Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2012 01:56 AM)soup Wrote:  

I wonder how much working out to get big arm muscles matters if your shoulder width is below average.

lol, Workout Denialist.

if you weren't an established member i'd think you were

if you have narrow shoulders you need to focus on bench press and deadlifts to fill them out. maybe barbell rows as well to get your traps bigger.
bench press can also help with your deltoids and lats as they help stabilise.

there is no type of body frame that doesnt look better with some muscle on it. having muscle is never a downside. so get in that free weights room!

Ha- not denying the importance of working out, just trying to manage my time more efficiently. I think everyone needs to stay in shape and be cut in some way. I'll try some of those exercises.

When I look at a girl, I mostly look for proportions (like hip to waist ratio etc.). Her actual size doesn't matter as to me. I wonder if girls assess our physiques in a similar way.

Women's tastes are different in every country. I've lived in Spain, Italy and Britain and I can say British girls are the ones who most appreciate shoulder width, probably because Brit guys are usually narrow.

Quote: (05-17-2012 09:13 AM)soup Wrote:  

Ha- not denying the importance of working out, just trying to manage my time more efficiently. I think everyone needs to stay in shape and be cut in some way. I'll try some of those exercises.

so:
Deadlifts
Bench Press
Rows

and please read up on form and technique before you go in guns blazing.

first time I tried deadlift I didn't warm up properly and went too heavy, my back was fucked. couldn't bend down for 2 days.

Almost every Spanish guy I see in Europe has narrow shoulders and is out of shape. I don't know what's up with them, they don't seem to work out at all. Unfortunately they don't do so well in EE because of their height

To get wide, you must lift wide

Quote: (05-17-2012 10:08 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

Almost every Spanish guy I see in Europe has narrow shoulders and is out of shape. I don't know what's up with them, they don't seem to work out at all. Unfortunately they don't do so well in EE because of their height

Working out is severely missing from all Mediterranean cultures.

Quote: (05-17-2012 09:13 AM)soup Wrote:  

Ha- not denying the importance of working out, just trying to manage my time more efficiently. I think everyone needs to stay in shape and be cut in some way. I'll try some of those exercises.

When I look at a girl, I mostly look for proportions (like hip to waist ratio etc.). Her actual size doesn't matter as to me. I wonder if girls assess our physiques in a similar way.

I have a solid post for getting results with almost no time for the gym. Nothing but one pull and one press.

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-12077.html

Did this during midterms and finals week. You can do a program like this indefinitely if you cycle.

A similar calisthenic program would be (including a basic progression). It would take fifteen minutes per workout, tops. No rest of course.

Code:

Quote: (05-17-2012 10:32 AM)Walnuts Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2012 10:08 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

Almost every Spanish guy I see in Europe has narrow shoulders and is out of shape. I don't know what's up with them, they don't seem to work out at all. Unfortunately they don't do so well in EE because of their height

Working out is severely missing from all Mediterranean cultures.

True actually, never thought about that. The bigger guys are always the central/northern Europeans with a few exceptions.

The question is kind of odd, since you can improve the width of your shoulders to a significant extent, and it's not like big arms and big shoulders are mutually exclusive.

For a better shoulder width, or at least the appearance of it, you need to work on improving your v-frame. That means doing at least one of these three things:

1. Adding muscle mass to the shoulder (deltoids). You do this by doing exercises for your front, lateral, and rear deltoids. Here are some exercises you could try:
-dumbbell and barbell overhead pressing (front and lateral delts)
-dumbbell or cable front raises (front, and lateral delts)
-dumbbell or cable lateral raises (lateral delts)
-bent over dumbbell reverse flyes (rear delts)
-cable face pulls- google this (rear delts)
-reverse flyes on a machine (rear delts)

You don't have to do all of these, but pick a few or some variation of these that is similar.

2. Increasing the width of your back. This means your lats, and teres major. Some exercises:
-chin ups, or pull ups with varying grips.
-lat pull downs. You can do them the standard way, or use an underhand grip, or the parallel handles. You can also do them behind the beck, but only up to the ear at the lowest, and only if you don't experience pain as a result of it. Some people can't do it that way.
-any rowing where you try to pull to your navel or the crease of your hip, which your shoulders are completely retracted throughout the lift.
-dumbbell, cable, or machine pullovers.

Again, you don't have to do all of them, but as with the shoulder exercises pick a few and PROGRESS on them.

3. Losing bodyfat. A lot can be written about this, but that said it's a lot simpler than most make it out to be.

Quote: (05-17-2012 12:38 PM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2012 10:32 AM)Walnuts Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2012 10:08 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

Almost every Spanish guy I see in Europe has narrow shoulders and is out of shape. I don't know what's up with them, they don't seem to work out at all. Unfortunately they don't do so well in EE because of their height

Working out is severely missing from all Mediterranean cultures.

True actually, never thought about that. The bigger guys are always the central/northern Europeans with a few exceptions.

I went to Argentina and I think I could count the guys on my hand who I saw that looked like they lifted. Seriously no competition in that department.

Quote: (05-17-2012 10:08 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

Almost every Spanish guy I see in Europe has narrow shoulders and is out of shape. I don't know what's up with them, they don't seem to work out at all. Unfortunately they don't do so well in EE because of their height

Speak more on that please because i'm only 5'8.

Quote: (05-17-2012 01:56 AM)soup Wrote:  

I wonder how much working out to get big arm muscles matters if your shoulder width is below average.

Then obviously, work out your shoulders too.

What I notice with my own fitness regime is that if I follow the regularly prescribed workouts for upper body, my chest is fairly unresponsive but my shoulders and biceps are very responsive. I think I have good bulk and definition on my upper arms, shoulders, neck, and back, but my pecs are a joke. So you just have to tweak your routine. I've been benching like crazy and getting marginal results but I'm hoping at some point it pays off...

IT seems you have two options, given the initial statement:

A) Have narrow shoulders, but lift big and get swole so the rest of you is buff like shit

B) Have narrow shoulders and dont lift and be a skinny weak dude

Pick one

Quote: (05-17-2012 04:20 PM)that guy Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2012 01:56 AM)soup Wrote:  

I wonder how much working out to get big arm muscles matters if your shoulder width is below average.

Then obviously, work out your shoulders too.

no shit. hahahaha

delt side raises, mil presses, arnold presses, rear delt raises, etc,

Mediterranean guys tend to have finer bone structure than Northern Europeans.

You can't make your shoulder bones any broader, but you can create the appearance of broader shoulders.

In addition to your shoulders/deltoids, work on your traps and lats. Your lats will greatly enhance your v-taper, and your traps, by making your shoulders sloping instead of flat, will make them appear broader than they actually are. Even if your shoulder stayed the same size, growth in the size of your traps will make you appear broader. Chin-ups and pull-ups are good for lats and traps respectively. Upper pecs will help out too, which you can hit with a military / overhead press.

Quote: (05-17-2012 12:38 PM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2012 10:32 AM)Walnuts Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2012 10:08 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

Almost every Spanish guy I see in Europe has narrow shoulders and is out of shape. I don't know what's up with them, they don't seem to work out at all. Unfortunately they don't do so well in EE because of their height

Working out is severely missing from all Mediterranean cultures.

True actually, never thought about that. The bigger guys are always the central/northern Europeans with a few exceptions.

Do lizards in those countries actually like men with muscular bodies? Do they go gaga over a nice frame? I have never actually visited a Mediterranean country so I don't know.

Quote: (05-17-2012 07:31 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Upper pecs will help out too, which you can hit with a military / overhead press.

Upper pecs? It's one muscle (exluding the pectoralis minor which is behind the major). What are you talking about?

Military press does delts and traps if I'm not mistaken