[sheesh]

I don't recall seeing any muscular guys in France, Italy or Spain. Some French guys do jogging...getting ripped however is not common and is rather considered as low class.

[soup]

(05-19-2012 04:29 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

I don't recall seeing any muscular guys in France, Italy or Spain. Some French guys do jogging...getting ripped however is not common and is rather considered as low class.

That's interesting because where I am, in the hipster part of Brooklyn, getting pumped does the same.

[MikeCF]

Remember that absolute shoulder width is less important that relative shoulder with, i.e., it's the ratio between your shoulders and waist that matters most.

A guy with a 29" waist and 42" shoulders is going to look better than a guy with a 40" waist and 56" shoulders.

So even if you're a little guy, you can look good if you work on getting better shoulder-to-waist ratio.

[MikeCF]

(05-19-2012 04:39 PM)soup Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 04:29 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

I don't recall seeing any muscular guys in France, Italy or Spain. Some French guys do jogging...getting ripped however is not common and is rather considered as low class.

That's interesting because where I am, in the hipster part of Brooklyn, getting pumped does the same.

Sure, it's class beta/slave morality.

Being in shape, lifting, that all takes a lot of work. It takes an exercise of will.

Most guys have a weak will. Most guys are helpless children. Most guys run from a fight.

Thus, they create an aesthetic structure that devalues objective manifestations of a strong will - such as a strong, well-proportioned body.

You will even hear such guys say, "Women are not visual creatures," and "Muscles turn women off."

It's a classic hater mentality.

[Basil Ransom]

(05-19-2012 04:39 PM)soup Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 04:29 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

I don't recall seeing any muscular guys in France, Italy or Spain. Some French guys do jogging...getting ripped however is not common and is rather considered as low class.

That's interesting because where I am, in the hipster part of Brooklyn, getting pumped does the same.

If you really want to know, find a guy who's got muscle *and* style, and ask him about his experience, his opinion. Women, skinny men, and trashy meatheads can't tell you if putting on mass will help you get laid or not with cute hipster/European girls. They don't live in the reality that you're considering.

And the style part is important - is it, say, that hipsters don't like muscle, or just that hipsters don't like non-hipster meatheads, and that's what comes to mind when they think of a muscular man? People confuse the two. If you took a hipster dude who already has strong cred among hipster girls, and had him gain 20 lbs of muscle and changed nothing else, would his appeal increase or decrease?

Maybe muscle does hurt you, in some niches. It's just that the question is usually framed in the wrong way. You can't show hipster chicks pictures of muscly guidos, see them get disgusted, and conclude "See! Hipsters don't like muscle!"

[sheesh]

I'm not hating.
Being in shape and having muscles is always good, no matter where you are in the world.
But men who spend all their free time making a sculpture out of themselves are fools in my book. This to me is just over the top and is a typical Merican thing with all the fake tits, lips, botox, bleached teeth etc. etc. I'm really glad there are still countries where you do not need to pull this shit of.

[rhodey]

(05-20-2012 07:21 AM)sheesh Wrote:  

I'm not hating.
Being in shape and having muscles is always good, no matter where you are in the world.
But men who spend all their free time making a sculpture out of themselves are fools in my book. This to me is just over the top and is a typical Merican thing with all the fake tits, lips, botox, bleached teeth etc. etc. I'm really glad there are still countries where you do not need to pull this shit of.

You're entitled to your own opinion, but I don't get the analogy you made equating being in shape to fake tits, , lips , and botox. If anything it's the antithesis.

One is achieving a goal through natural means (provided no juice is used) with the byproduct resulting in aesthetic appeal. While the things you listed involve purchasing body parts for athletic aesthetic.

Also it 's a false assumption that it takes "all of your free time" to get in shape. An hour a workout is often adequate if you know what you're doing. But in the end it's not something that's needed anymore than having a good career, having style, or being articulate. However like those qualities looking in shape it can help give you an edge over the competition. Really that's what this is all about anyway, competition for women.

[rhodey]

(05-19-2012 04:56 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

A guy with a 29" waist and 42" shoulders is going to look better than a guy with a 40" waist and 56" shoulders.

I think it depends especially if you take height and build into the equation. I've seen the pretty athleltic tall and large frame dudes that have 40 inch but their proportions still hold because of the broad shoulder. They don't look fat by any means.

[sheesh]

Body building imho is not so much different from getting implants. The point is that it looks artificial. No one actually looks that way, even if they are naturally athletic, genetically gifted.



Anyway, to each his own.

[Screwston]

(05-19-2012 04:39 PM)soup Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 04:29 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

I don't recall seeing any muscular guys in France, Italy or Spain. Some French guys do jogging...getting ripped however is not common and is rather considered as low class.

That's interesting because where I am, in the hipster part of Brooklyn, getting pumped does the same.

Wow that's dumb. I've never heard of anything like that

[Walnuts]

(05-20-2012 02:04 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

Body building imho is not so much different from getting implants. The point is that it looks artificial. No one actually looks that way, even if they are naturally athletic, genetically gifted.

Anyway, to each his own.

What? it's not artificial at all. the body naturally gains muscle through exercise. these guys aren't getting pec implants or bicep surgeries. they're just pushing their bodies and the body responds by getting them in shape.


You really sound like one of those guys who are jealous of people in shape and thus proceeds to shame the people who are making an effort to get off their ass to get fit and look good.

Quote:

No one actually looks that way

yes they do, and they do it through good old fashioned hard work.
Arguing against bodybuilding because it's unnatural is like arguing against brushing your teeth
or washing your hands
or cutting your nails
or wearing shoes
or cutting your hair
or shaving
or using a toilet
or using the phone
or using an internet forum
or...i could go on.

[rhodey]

(05-20-2012 02:04 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

Body building imho is not so much different from getting implants. The point is that it looks artificial. No one actually looks that way, even if they are naturally athletic, genetically gifted.



Anyway, to each his own.

Average no.

Natural yes.

Nothing wrong with being average and having an average or (below average) untrained physique.


But sure people actually look this way (the pic you posted) if they watch their diet and throw some resistance training into the mix. Totally acheivable by the masses.

Sheesh YOU could look like that with some discipline, know how, and balls.

Are you up for the challenge

[sheesh]

Yeah, I could look like that but I'm not interested.

I just shared my views in this post on the Amazing physique thread:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-13091-...#pid213377

In short, I aspire to become strong and fit but not pumped.

That's the physique that is worth having:

[soup]

(05-20-2012 02:46 PM)houston Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 04:39 PM)soup Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 04:29 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

I don't recall seeing any muscular guys in France, Italy or Spain. Some French guys do jogging...getting ripped however is not common and is rather considered as low class.

That's interesting because where I am, in the hipster part of Brooklyn, getting pumped does the same.

Wow that's dumb. I've never heard of anything like that

There are a lot of guys who work the effeminate hipster alpha thing to great effect around here. There are also guys who do a more classical rockabilly-rock 'n' roll alpha look.

[sheesh]

Hipster dudes are boys at best, not men. But, roid monkeys aren't men either. They are so busy with their appearance that they have forgotten what being a man is about. It's certainly not about training every little muscle on your back or worrying about protein shakes.

[rhodey]

(05-21-2012 05:18 PM)soup Wrote:  

(05-20-2012 02:46 PM)houston Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 04:39 PM)soup Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 04:29 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

I don't recall seeing any muscular guys in France, Italy or Spain. Some French guys do jogging...getting ripped however is not common and is rather considered as low class.

That's interesting because where I am, in the hipster part of Brooklyn, getting pumped does the same.

Wow that's dumb. I've never heard of anything like that

There are a lot of guys who work the effeminate hipster alpha thing to great effect around here. There are also guys who do a more classical rockabilly-rock 'n' roll alpha look.

There is nothing alpha about an effeminate hipster.

[Chad Daring]

(05-20-2012 03:48 PM)Walnuts Wrote:  

(05-20-2012 02:04 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

Body building imho is not so much different from getting implants. The point is that it looks artificial. No one actually looks that way, even if they are naturally athletic, genetically gifted.

Anyway, to each his own.

What? it's not artificial at all. the body naturally gains muscle through exercise. these guys aren't getting pec implants or bicep surgeries. they're just pushing their bodies and the body responds by getting them in shape.

I'm going to disagree.

Body Builders are not natural. Most have such rigorous and specialized diets and workouts that without the aid of the modern world nature would NEVER produce men that looks like that.

This is what natures elite human looks like

http://www.ornexpo.se/img/dekorfoton/art...elsson.jpg


20%+ body fat, massively strong, and capable of lifting enormous loads efficiently

The gym should not be about building your body, it should be about building your power. If you do that body will follow.

[rhodey]

(05-21-2012 09:44 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

(05-20-2012 03:48 PM)Walnuts Wrote:  

(05-20-2012 02:04 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

Body building imho is not so much different from getting implants. The point is that it looks artificial. No one actually looks that way, even if they are naturally athletic, genetically gifted.

Anyway, to each his own.

What? it's not artificial at all. the body naturally gains muscle through exercise. these guys aren't getting pec implants or bicep surgeries. they're just pushing their bodies and the body responds by getting them in shape.

I'm going to disagree.

Body Builders are not natural. Most have such rigorous and specialized diets and workouts that without the aid of the modern world nature would NEVER produce men that looks like that.

This is what natures elite human looks like

http://www.ornexpo.se/img/dekorfoton/art...elsson.jpg


20%+ body fat, massively strong, and capable of lifting enormous loads efficiently

The gym should not be about building your body, it should be about building your power. If you do that body will follow.

LOL, so strongman lifting....Pulling buses, Lifting 300lb boulders, 900 lb tire deadlifts and carrying 20% + bodyfat produces a look that is more "natural"??

Dude the ancient hunters and gatherers looked nothing like that either.

[Chad Daring]

(05-21-2012 09:57 PM)rhodey Wrote:  

(05-21-2012 09:44 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

(05-20-2012 03:48 PM)Walnuts Wrote:  

(05-20-2012 02:04 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

Body building imho is not so much different from getting implants. The point is that it looks artificial. No one actually looks that way, even if they are naturally athletic, genetically gifted.

Anyway, to each his own.

What? it's not artificial at all. the body naturally gains muscle through exercise. these guys aren't getting pec implants or bicep surgeries. they're just pushing their bodies and the body responds by getting them in shape.

I'm going to disagree.

Body Builders are not natural. Most have such rigorous and specialized diets and workouts that without the aid of the modern world nature would NEVER produce men that looks like that.

This is what natures elite human looks like

http://www.ornexpo.se/img/dekorfoton/art...elsson.jpg


20%+ body fat, massively strong, and capable of lifting enormous loads efficiently

The gym should not be about building your body, it should be about building your power. If you do that body will follow.

LOL, so strongman lifting....Pulling buses, Lifting 300lb boulders, 900 lb tire deadlifts and carrying 20% + bodyfat produces a look that is more "natural"??

Dude the ancient hunters and gatherers looked nothing like that either.

No, not most of them, but those who's focus and affinity was for strenght would've, much more so then say Ronnie Coleman.

I mean shit some of the strong man events are lifting boulders and trees Something tells me every tribe would've kept a Magnus around for one the heavy shit needed lifting. Someone's gotta carry the mammoth back to the cave lol.

[rhodey]

(05-21-2012 10:02 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

(05-21-2012 09:57 PM)rhodey Wrote:  

(05-21-2012 09:44 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

(05-20-2012 03:48 PM)Walnuts Wrote:  

(05-20-2012 02:04 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

Body building imho is not so much different from getting implants. The point is that it looks artificial. No one actually looks that way, even if they are naturally athletic, genetically gifted.

Anyway, to each his own.

What? it's not artificial at all. the body naturally gains muscle through exercise. these guys aren't getting pec implants or bicep surgeries. they're just pushing their bodies and the body responds by getting them in shape.

I'm going to disagree.

Body Builders are not natural. Most have such rigorous and specialized diets and workouts that without the aid of the modern world nature would NEVER produce men that looks like that.

This is what natures elite human looks like

http://www.ornexpo.se/img/dekorfoton/art...elsson.jpg


20%+ body fat, massively strong, and capable of lifting enormous loads efficiently

The gym should not be about building your body, it should be about building your power. If you do that body will follow.

LOL, so strongman lifting....Pulling buses, Lifting 300lb boulders, 900 lb tire deadlifts and carrying 20% + bodyfat produces a look that is more "natural"??

Dude the ancient hunters and gatherers looked nothing like that either.

No, not most of them, but those who's focus and affinity was for strenght would've, much more so then say Ronnie Coleman.

I mean shit some of the strong man events are lifting boulders and trees Something tells me every tribe would've kept a Magnus around for one the heavy shit needed lifting. Someone's gotta carry the mammoth back to the cave lol.

Point taken but both are extremes. Nature doesn't want 300 pound behemoths chasing after dinner whether they are more focus on strength or sheer muscle. Those two are the flip side of the same coin.

[Hades]

Quote:

Point taken but both are extremes. Nature doesn't want 300 pound behemoths chasing after dinner whether they are more focus on strength or sheer muscle. Those two are the flip side of the same coin.

Size and maximal strength are related but not directly. You can have a small dude at maybe 150 pounds bodyweight who is capable of deadlifting 700. I would say that the average caveman was probably 1.5-2 times as strong as the average dude today.

[Walnuts]

Hey you know what guys?
I'm going to stop reading workout threads completely. They seem to cause the most debate and disagreement in the whole forum and they're not productive. The thread was about shoulder width but now we're arguing about pointless shit like cavemen and fucking boulders and trees. Wtf? Is this ridiculous or what?!
Walnuts out. Peace.

[Hades]

(05-22-2012 01:29 AM)Walnuts Wrote:  

Hey you know what guys?
I'm going to stop reading workout threads completely. They seem to cause the most debate and disagreement in the whole forum and they're not productive. The thread was about shoulder width but now we're arguing about pointless shit like cavemen and fucking boulders and trees. Wtf? Is this ridiculous or what?!
Walnuts out. Peace.

true that, in my opinion
I usually pimp out functional strength but lately been "different strokes for different folks". The cumulative man-hours of people dicking around could make for a lot of quality gym time.

[Chad Daring]

(05-22-2012 01:29 AM)Walnuts Wrote:  

Hey you know what guys?
I'm going to stop reading workout threads completely. They seem to cause the most debate and disagreement in the whole forum and they're not productive. The thread was about shoulder width but now we're arguing about pointless shit like cavemen and fucking boulders and trees. Wtf? Is this ridiculous or what?!
Walnuts out. Peace.

I completely disagree.


Hell this very easily relates TO working out. Its about leaving your comfort zone. Just like with lifting, you have to keep going to that point where it FUCKING SUCKS to keep going, but doing so makes you a stronger person. This is the same thing, just for your brain.

I cant tell you how many debates like this I've gotten into online, wherein me defending my point made me think about it and realize that I wasn't entirely right. This helped me improve as a human being, if only a little.

[Rah]

RE: skinny hipsters, the unspoken rule of the scene is that anything that makes you look like you're trying too hard at anything is uncool. So obviously working hard on your body is uncool. But who cares, hipster culture attracts mostly do-nothing wankers and tatted up plain janes anyway. And I think G had a post about where he rolled into hipster turf suited up and swooped one regardless.