Quote: (05-08-2012 07:00 PM)rakishness Wrote:  

Look at Usher...he isnt huge at all but chics go crazy when he takes off his shirt.

It's not that I disagree with you necessarily, but unless you live by the beach, you're not going to walking around with your shirt off or even a tank top most of the time.

The cuts that lean guys have aren't noticeable under clothes, typically not even tight v-necks. A guy with broad shoulders, big chest, back, traps, and arms will be noticed for sure, whether he's wearing a v-neck, t-shirt, button down, or custom suit.

Really I think you want to find a nice medium between being cut and big, to me "ripped" means you have size and definition. This of course is hard to achieve, (I think VK is a good example).

I also truly believe that different women have different preferences. Some chicks like the cut, slim guy, with the six pack. Other chicks like the "bulkier" guy built like a football player.

A lot of it depends on the girls' physical size, how big of a man her father is (height, build), and the size of the guys she typically dates.

Basilransom or someone mentioned this previously, a lot of it's relative to what she's used to, if she normally dates guy who are 6 ft 3 in and buff at 215 lbs, you'll seem small in comparison if you're only 5 ft 9 in, 160 lbs. I'm sure the same applies with penis size, if she's used to 6 in., you'll seem really big at 8 in.

Also, I do think there is a bit of Freudian psychology at play as well, women always compare men to their fathers and a lot of women want to find men that possess traits similar to their fathers.

Quote: (05-08-2012 05:27 PM)Walnuts Wrote:  

Quote: (05-08-2012 04:37 PM)madcaptravels Wrote:  

its proven men find others with this ratio more intimidating

lol fuck the ratio! If a guy was 7 foot and 350 pounds he's going to be intimitidating even if his ratio is terrible. His ratio could be 0.8 and people still wouldn't fuck with him.
Likewise if a guy is 5 foot tall and skinny but has your "perfect" 1.6 ratio I'm still gona laugh in his face if he tries to talk shit to me because I know I could knock his 100 pound ass out with a nice left hook.

Intimidation is all about size. (Attitude plays a big part also but I won't touch on that here)
Height, weight and build are the three factors. They all work in combination. If you have all three then people will be very hesitant to fuck with you, provided you know how to hold a mean face and walk like a man.

The ratio works for sex appeal, but not intimidation.

Agreed I would even go far enough to say women from tougher environments look for bigger guys for the protection factor. Also taller women and curvier women IMO tend to like bigger guys.

Quote: (05-08-2012 06:40 PM)kosko Wrote:  

I want to be cut with a happy medium. Being massed up and bulky would be dope but I think that makes me look older than I need to. The pre-requisite for most brothers at 30 is to get yolked out of their minds. Strong and lean at let's say 6-8% body fat and I'll be happy.

LOL 6%-8% is no happy medium, that is straight up ripped. IMO a happy medium is 11-14%. Keep in mind some people look better at the same bodyfat level than others. Also keep in mind that most people under estimate their body fat levels.

A natural bodybuilder of about 5'10" who truly around 6% body fat should not expect to be over 210lb pounds or so. Why do I say that? Look at Skip Lacour. He's pretty much the worlds top heavyweight natural body builder and in contest shape he comes in around 213lb. Again most of us are not as lean as we think we are.

Show me a man of average height who is 250lb and ripped with a 6pack and snakelike vascularity and I'll bet you my house that he is a juicer...

I think it is not rocket science but most women like size!
Alot of girls I have met also like to wear heels and hate to be taller than there date/boyfriend.
The lean cut look that you see on magazines is not natural unless you are skinny, which as mentioned before you cannot see that under clothes.

Women want to fuck guys with manlier faces more than usual when they're ovulating. And they're most likely to fuck when they're ovulating, and especially to cheat if attached to sexually unattractive men. The studies only tested the effect of manly *faces,* but in the absence of knowledge, it's likely that women's preference for manlier *bodies* is highest when they're horniest.

When women do fuck quickly, aka have a 'short-term sex partner,' the partner involved tended to be more muscular than their other sex partners. Men with more muscle have more sex partners, more quickies, and more affairs. Link

So, do you want to wait for sex, or get it quick? I don't have proof, but it's my suspicion that women are far more open to fucking in general a manly sexy stranger, than a more 'balanced' male stranger. She has enough betas in her social circle, she doesn't need a strange one. IMO, attractive women in general fuck strangers when the men they already know aren't sexy enough. When attractive women already know plenty of cool, masculine high status guys who can dick her good (think hot sorority girls), you're fighting an uphill battle.

Roosh's case might be instructive. This is all hypothetical, but here are some factors to explain why he didn't see much effect:
*He gained 15 lbs, which isn't that noticeable when you are as tall and wiry as he is. And he was squatting, meaning that possibly most of that weight went to his legs, which doesn't really enhance your attractiveness. I trust that he weighed himself appropriately, but if he didn't, some of that gain could be food and water still in his stomach, etc.
*It's possible that the gains from getting big are more muted when you're very tall. Not sure if this is true or not, but it's plausible.
*You're in Europe, where people are thinner.
*American women are more primed to think of muscular men as sexy and fuckworthy. Plus the sexual market here is more alpha-take-all, and less a chick-in-every-pot like say, Poland, so sexy stranger traits like markers of masculinity are more valuable here in America.

In short, for almost every guy, given a low enough body fat, bigger IS better. It's just a question of what you're willing to give up to get it.

I see guys, more in past threads than this one, say "bigger isn't better." Then when you confront them, their position changes to "it would take me too much time/money/effort to get big, so I think being 'fit' is better," which is a personal statement, not a factual one. It's like having a Porsche vs. a Toyota. If you have limited funds, is your money better spent on a Toyota and spending the savings elsewhere? Usually, yes. But no one says the Toyota is *better* than the Porsche.

Maybe your time is better spent say, brushing up on the local language, or taking up a cool hobby. But that doesn't mean that bigger isn't better, just that the returns aren't big enough for the effort required. Of course, if you enjoy something for its own sake, be it lifting or learning languages, the extrinsic returns are less relevant.

Basil how did you bulk up? You said you were 145 at 6'1. Were you a teenager?

Quote: (05-09-2012 12:22 AM)houston Wrote:  

Basil how did you bulk up? You said you were 145 at 6'1. Were you a teenager?

I was 130 at full height, and 145 at about 19. I'm sure I could've bulked up much more quickly had I tried harder and smarter, but the 50 lbs I gained has been in fits and starts, over the course of years.

As for how, it's just about eating a lot. I spent one semester of college eating a 2 lb sirloin steak and watching Entourage every night, and I hardly gained any weight over that period. I think it's because I missed breakfast. I got as high as 190 and then dipped to 170 after neglecting proper diet and lifting.

The easiest way I've found is protein shakes with heavy cream, and not milk whose sugar always seem to make me gain more fat. But most of my gains were with eating lots of meat, pasta, whole milk and just whatever there was around to eat, with a focus on hearty foods, fat and protein. Fatburger quadruple king (2 lbs of beef) burgers are pretty good too. Everyone I've run into marvels at how much meat I can put down, but I'm pretty sure that's standard for a skinny guy bulking. I got a little chubby at times, but I was never much more than 5 lbs of fat away from a trim physique. Plus, fat from bulking comes off pretty easily once you stop stuffing yourself.

Awesome topic!

In my experience, having been working out for the past 2.5-3 years, i'm 6'3 at 185lbs, went down from 235lbs, lost a lot of fat, while at the same time was gaining muscle mass, and i was pretty much aiming at a body like Ryan Reynolds in Green Lantern OR Chris Evans in Captain America if anyone seen those two movies. Both have similar body type.

I'm almost there, six packs are showing, chest/arms defined and you can easily see the curve of the shoulder leading to biceps, for example, with/without shirt. All the results i've gotten were gained naturally, without any "juicing", and only using protein powder with BCAA, and a multi-vitamin+mineral pills to compensate for whatever i am missing from my meals (around $100/month for both excluding cooking).

So basically, i personally prefer an "inbetween" kind of body, as in not too big/bulky and not too small but super ripped.

Also i've had so many women tell me that they didn't have a strong preference for guys who were "too big" (like extreme body builders with arms the size of a thigh!) or too skinny (anorexic). I guess moderation is key here.

As long as you can fill out a t-shirt/shirt nicely, showing some muscle and width with regard to chest/shoulders/traps/arms and a flat stomach, you'll get eyes on you right away.

One last thing, shorter guys will look much "wider" and "bigger" than taller guys, even if both the short guy and tall guy have the same workout routine and diet IMO. So a taller guy has to work harder to look as wide/big as the shorter guy, or so it seems to me.

Quote: (05-09-2012 12:47 AM)Perseus Wrote:  

i was pretty much aiming at a body like Ryan Reynolds in Green Lantern OR Chris Evans in Captain America if anyone seen those two movies. Both have similar body type.

Lol, those guys are at least 20 lbs apart, if they were the same height, probably 30-40+ lbs away from each other.



vs

Although i wouldn't mind looks from girls when i take of my shirt its only a small motivator for me, i am not working my ass off in the gym or eating double portions just for a couple of looks a few times a year( in case you want to show off a six pack). If you work out only to get attention from chicks, you still have the wrong mindset and value their opinion too much.
I work out for me myself and i. I always had this mindset even back in my beta days.

Note that i live in Holland where the weather sucks so taking my shirt of is damn near impossible.

I am a skinny dude at around 103 pounds. So for now I'm planning to work out and such to get lean. If I had to really chose a person I'd want my body to look like, it would have to be someone such as Zyzz. I unno, its just something cool to see a bony fuck turning into a piece of art.

I've been working out about 3-4 times a week for about a month now and I do not see much of a change. Perhaps its my diet.

As regards to the skinny vs. bulky argument, one is not better than the other. The confidence given due to working your body to get it the size you want should be all that matters. Who cares if a chick hates lean or bulky guys? At that point, you should be happy with youself because you look more presentable than most other men.

Relevant post: http://dangerandplay.wordpress.com/2012/...en-prefer/

Though it doesn't go into enough detail about the pros and cons of each.

Caligula, check out my link above for a much more in-depth "research".

I think its best to get your bodyfat in check. I think 95% of attractive women will find you more attractive at 8-10% bf than 15-20%. I really don't think there is a debate with this one.

As for muscle, it all comes down to preference. I see it this way, even if my link above shows that women most prefer the very trim, not too strong bodytypes like boxers/soccer/Brad Pitt (fight club), some women STRONGLY PREFER the bigger types. So basically if you find the relatively smaller minority that likes bigger guys shes going to basically through herself at you. I have a friend like this and I've seen it in action.

deleted

Quote: (05-08-2012 11:08 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

I think it is not rocket science but most women like size!
Alot of girls I have met also like to wear heels and hate to be taller than there date/boyfriend.
The lean cut look that you see on magazines is not natural unless you are skinny, which as mentioned before you cannot see that under clothes.

You have a point but lets not mix Height with the leanulky discussion. If the Girl is taller than you no bulkiness will solve that.
Taller guys usually can get through with being skinny without looking fragile , while short guys can't. On the other side shorter guys usually can pack volume and deadliftsquat easier.

I think it all comes down to the style of the girl , but like Neil properly said no one should give too much consideration to it when choosing to go leanulky.

My goal is to be built, but not too bulky. If I was to put on another 60 lbs of muscle it would be too high maintenance. I'm at 185 now and I'd be happy at 200ish if I was ripped to shreds.

@basil: maybe you're right, i haven't researched how tall each each actor is or how much he weighs. But for all i know, i'm in between the two, leaning more towards a Chris Evans body type @ 6'3ft of height, and i think any bigger than that wouldn't add any more attraction effects/looks from girls.

Quote: (05-09-2012 03:06 AM)Rosca Wrote:  

I am a skinny dude at around 103 pounds. So for now I'm planning to work out and such to get lean. If I had to really chose a person I'd want my body to look like, it would have to be someone such as Zyzz. I unno, its just something cool to see a bony fuck turning into a piece of art.

I've been working out about 3-4 times a week for about a month now and I do not see much of a change. Perhaps its my diet.

As regards to the skinny vs. bulky argument, one is not better than the other. The confidence given due to working your body to get it the size you want should be all that matters. Who cares if a chick hates lean or bulky guys? At that point, you should be happy with youself because you look more presentable than most other men.

Am I the only one that caught this? How tall are you player? I think we need to help you bulk up man.

I'm almost 18 now and i'm not working 100% potential nor i'm following the best nutrition plan, however i can see changes on my muscles by every 2 weeks when i go to the gym. My muscles really are growing faster than i can notice them.

Is this just my genetics or is it because of the amount of my testosterone at this age?

Quote: (05-11-2012 04:29 AM)Andreas Wrote:  

I'm almost 18 now and i'm not working 100% potential nor i'm following the best nutrition plan, however i can see changes on my muscles by every 2 weeks when i go to the gym. My muscles really are growing faster than i can notice them.

Is this just my genetics or is it because of the amount of my testosterone at this age?

Probably both, your age is the best. You will change so dramatically, it will blow people away. You have practically as much T as a juice monster right now so you can lay a great foundation with the right nutrition and training.

Quote: (05-10-2012 10:37 PM)houston Wrote:  

Quote: (05-09-2012 03:06 AM)Rosca Wrote:  

I am a skinny dude at around 103 pounds. So for now I'm planning to work out and such to get lean. If I had to really chose a person I'd want my body to look like, it would have to be someone such as Zyzz. I unno, its just something cool to see a bony fuck turning into a piece of art.

I've been working out about 3-4 times a week for about a month now and I do not see much of a change. Perhaps its my diet.

As regards to the skinny vs. bulky argument, one is not better than the other. The confidence given due to working your body to get it the size you want should be all that matters. Who cares if a chick hates lean or bulky guys? At that point, you should be happy with youself because you look more presentable than most other men.

Am I the only one that caught this? How tall are you player? I think we need to help you bulk up man.

I am about 5'8 tall. I've been doing pushups daily thanks to reading a little convict conditioning.

Here's a visual of me.



The questions I have are:
1. Should I really invest in a gym membership and use freeweights? Reading CC has kind of tailored my mind that possibly going to a gym is counter-productive. For the past couple of days, I've switched from doing curls at the campus gym, to doing pushups. Should I use both methods?

2. As for supplements, I found this protein powder lying around last day of school. (This) You think this would help? And are there anymore supplements I should get into? My football friends were talking about Creatine, but I don't know which one would be the best for me.

3. Food as well, what should I be eating? Beverage wise, I only drink water and sometimes green tea.

Bonus points for the person who figures out what game my hat is from and what character wears it.

Quote: (05-13-2012 04:37 AM)Rosca Wrote:  

I am about 5'8 tall. I've been doing pushups daily thanks to reading a little convict conditioning.

Here's a visual of me.



The questions I have are:
1. Should I really invest in a gym membership and use freeweights? Reading CC has kind of tailored my mind that possibly going to a gym is counter-productive. For the past couple of days, I've switched from doing curls at the campus gym, to doing pushups. Should I use both methods?

2. As for supplements, I found this protein powder lying around last day of school. (This) You think this would help? And are there anymore supplements I should get into? My football friends were talking about Creatine, but I don't know which one would be the best for me.

3. Food as well, what should I be eating? Beverage wise, I only drink water and sometimes green tea.

Bonus points for the person who figures out what game my hat is from and what character wears it.

Go read StrongLifts.com man. Great advice there that can be answered better than we can do.

Quote: (05-07-2012 04:09 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Brad Pitt was 6', 155 lbs in Fight Club. Its amazing how much bigger/better you can look at a very low bodyfat percentage.

You won't be imposing with a shirt but I think the athleticism of the body will still show.

Didn't read all the posts, but Roosh it seems like you are an Ectomorph like me.

I bulk a lot of the time, but sometimes it gets to the point when I put weight on around my face and it makes me look older, I don't want that. It's a constant struggle to keep my size, can lose just as quickly as gaining.

My legs are my biggest weakness, If I don't train my legs regularly they become matchsticks fast

I want to have the more athletic look, perhaps I will try the Stronglifts program

Have you tried this Roosh?

Quote: (05-13-2012 04:37 AM)Rosca Wrote:  

I am about 5'8 tall. I've been doing pushups daily thanks to reading a little convict conditioning.

Here's a visual of me.



The questions I have are:
1. Should I really invest in a gym membership and use freeweights? Reading CC has kind of tailored my mind that possibly going to a gym is counter-productive. For the past couple of days, I've switched from doing curls at the campus gym, to doing pushups. Should I use both methods?

2. As for supplements, I found this protein powder lying around last day of school. (This) You think this would help? And are there anymore supplements I should get into? My football friends were talking about Creatine, but I don't know which one would be the best for me.

3. Food as well, what should I be eating? Beverage wise, I only drink water and sometimes green tea.

Bonus points for the person who figures out what game my hat is from and what character wears it.

If I were you, I'd start lifting free weights, body weight exercises are good but you're not going to add mass that way, unless you get a weight belt and start doing weighted chin-ups, pull-ups, dips, etc.

I'd join a gym or add the very least get a set of barbell weights and a bench press for your room/garage/backyard.

Focus on "compound lifts" at first that work multiple muscle groups at once: (squats, deadlifts, bench press, rows), also throw in a few isolation sets as well to target specific muslce groups.

You asked about doing curls and push-ups and if you should do both? The answer is yes, they work different muscle groups, curls work your biceps, while push-ups mostly work your chest and triceps.

As far as nutrition goes, you definitely want to get a lot of protein in your diet, if you can afford it I'd recommend buying yourself whey protein and mixing it with whole milk, drink at least one a day.

For other food to eat, you're so skinny that you don't have to worry about consuming stuff like sour cream, half and half, whipped cream, etc. All that stuff isn't necessarily "good for you", but it will put on weight. That said, I wouldn't recommend pouring a mound of sour cream on anything you eat.

I'd just eat a shit ton of protein and carbs, but still maintain a healthy diet and make sure to eat some fruits, veggies, as well. Carbs would be your bread, pasta, pizza, rice. Your best proteins are going to be chicken, steak, seafood, eggs, and beans.

If you go to the gym lift free weights (no machines), eat a shit ton of food, and get you're daily protein in take, you WILL gain weight and put on muscle.

I'm guessing you're a young cat from your pic, your metabolism is probably crazy high, I'm sure you can eat like a beast. As you get older your body's metabolism will slow down, making it much easier to gain weight. Also you're body's natural muscular frame tends to fill out in your mid-late 20's, so you'll for sure be gaining either way.

Also, finals tips, fuck supplements, but I would recommend you take fish oil. And, don't so too much cardio, playing basketball 2 times a week is prob sufficient, if you don't play sports, just do 5- 10 min max on the eliptical, trend mill, track, etc. for you're warm up, any more and you might start burning muscle.