There is nothing really profound to be learned here. If a man is truly happy in life -- and he is not a burden to his family, friends, or society -- then he is successful. I do not care whether he is a janitor, a refuse collector, or a septic system cleaner. All work, which is in demand in a free market, is worthy.

If someone is unhappy and he does not strive to improve his life, but simply accepts his condition out of laziness or apathy, then he is a loser. If he complains about it to others, without doing anything to change his situation, then he is a double-loser.

Quote: (05-19-2019 04:18 PM)LatinoHeat Wrote:  

I live and travel abroad all the time and are networked with ultra super high level people in all aspects including in EE or se asia. Virtually all my friends are self-made millionaires or at least have 6 figure online biz, or investors. I hardly ever interact with those types of people you are describing anymore even though I have no beef with them. Virtually all my friends have online businesses and/or investors.

I want to be your friend.

Quote: (05-19-2019 06:45 AM)gework Wrote:  

@OP, from your posts I gather you are fairly well off financially (at least in EE), have fitness on lock down and have intermediate game. You've also live abroad, which is something huge numbers of people are jealous about.

You have a few areas of your life together. Most guys are just floating around in whatever channel they end up in; while others do nothing.

I've only met one person who has their life together in three areas.

One thing I realised after joining this forum is the importance of your social circle. One of the biggest problems in my life is I was surrounded by people whose life was little more than what ended up before them. There was little idea of self-improvement. This is down to first of all having to admit to yourself you ain't that hot and could be much better. Most people have very obvious meta-narratives they use as shields to self improvement. The same people tend to be very averse to the success of their friends, as it highlights how average or below they are.

If you're improving yourself the fear/jealousy of your peers' success goes as you've made your own value; and are not as insecure of all these people how resist looking at what they and society really values.

I get it. It's frustrating to be around these people who are (but aren't really) satisfied with mediocrity. If you suggest anything they could do to make their lives better at best they won't do anything and are more likely to bat your suggestions away, because you are holding up a mirror.

Last time I was in Serbia I met this guy. He made 300 EUR / month, but he was in the process of trying to make a lot more than that. I think what's annoying is not their status, but the stagnation and their refusal to take a look at themselves. If a guy is not at least trying to sort out money, fitness, style, women and his mind - or what he can - then they don't have much to offer.

This is a great example of the mentality. Fat tub or nerd thinks he's paying $10K to sweep Angelina Jolie off her feet.

P.S. will be in Beograd in early June if you're still there.

LOL THAT GUY.

He's in Serbia? Christ.

Quote: (05-19-2019 04:18 PM)LatinoHeat Wrote:  

Quote: (05-18-2019 09:43 AM)ArloDash Wrote:  

I've been abroad for about two years now and I can't help but notice that the majority of people I mete are complete and utter losers who could not make it back in the USA, and have therefore restored to pillaging the developing world.

How big of a problem do you all find this to be, for those of you who have chosen to live abroad long term?

Who else has this problem? I find it really hard to surround myself with winners while traveling abroad in EE.

I live and travel abroad all the time and are networked with ultra super high level people in all aspects including in EE or se asia. Virtually all my friends are self-made millionaires or at least have 6 figure online biz, or investors. I hardly ever interact with those types of people you are describing anymore even though I have no beef with them. Virtually all my friends have online businesses and/or investors.

There are tons of high level people who live abroad, its all a tightknit circle where everyone knows each other as we have private events for our communities. Those people have literally spent zero time even thinking about whatever scummy expats are doing.

That's why they aren't inviting you to hang, you aren't bringing enough to the table and wasting time looking down on others instead of improving yourself.

When i was in my early 20s I was a bit of a vagabond myself, so what. Usually when I meet those types they remind me a lot of myself 10 years ago, broke, not wanting to go home to blue-pill world trying to find a way to make money online instead of going home. I try to point them in the right direction, have them read the 4 hour workweek and rich dad poor did and get a bit more knowledge.

Maybe when i'm in my 60s i'll be like one of those old dudes in EE just drinking pints and getting my rocks off, so what? Most of those people got so fucked out of divorce, their lives ruined, and now they finally took the plunge to say fuck it and enjoy fucking whores in Manila all day, good for them!

Red pill to swallow: Your mindset indicates you're probably a lot closer to those people you are judging then the community you want to associate yourself with because wolves have no time to worry about what sheep are doing.

Fair play dude. I'll take the one on the chin.

Quote: (05-18-2019 09:43 AM)ArloDash Wrote:  

I've been abroad for about two years now and I can't help but notice that the majority of people I mete are complete and utter losers who could not make it back in the USA, and have therefore restored to pillaging the developing world.

How big of a problem do you all find this to be, for those of you who have chosen to live abroad long term?

Yes, of course there's a shitload of benefits to living abroad...from financial, to better girls, healthier food, etc. The problem I find is that virtually nobody I meet exploits these opportunities to become better.

IE: They don't use the extra free time to invest or build a business. They don't use low prices to buy lots of healthy food to bulk up on. They resort to banging 6's instead of improving their game and chasing top quality tail. They don't even take advantage of FEIE...they just dig themselves into a tax hole that will probably come back to ruin them later in life.

I find most people who are abroad long enough end up emerging worse from the situation. More detached from society, living in an online eco-chamber where their beliefs are never challenged, poor and years behind on taxes and set up for financial ruin.

Who else has this problem? I find it really hard to surround myself with winners while traveling abroad in EE.

You're not a winner yourself if you travel EE for sex.

Real winners bang the hottest girl in high school, have a string of attractive girlfriends through their 20s and marry a girl 10 years younger in their early 30s, while having achieved a leadership position before 30. I know/knew a few such guys. I can tell you for an absolute fact that neither would dream of going on "loser tours" of Eastern Europeans.

They understand Asia expats better, the food and weather is better after all, and checking out and becoming a slow living beach bum. Understandable to a winner, not something they'd do of course, but never the less understandable. Trawling through former Sovjet countries for "cheap white pussy" on the other hand, that's about as much of a loser as it gets. No winner would need to go abroad to get a slim white girlfriend.

So my friend, it's all a matter of perspective, loser or big time loser or small time loser. Everyone has to do with what they've got.

Sounds like you are out of touch with reality. It's much easier to bang attractive white girls in the United States than Eastern Europe. I don't particularly like EE girls myself but I can understand that some guys do. Every person I've met I know who has gone to EE for women in mind is because they like their personalities better and find them to be better wives/girlfriends.

This is an interesting topic as someone who has lived abroad for about ten years and is heading back to the states this week to possibly move back full time or at least part of the year, I have some relevant thoughts.

I think it ultimately depends on what your motivation for moving abroad is and how and with who you spend your time abroad.

I left the US in 2008 because I wanted to travel, have new experiences and cultivate a sense of adventure in my life. For the first few years traveling and living abroad met these needs and was on the whole a very positive part of my life. I met new people, learned to speak spanish, learned to surf, hooked up with many girls and so on. I had amazing experiences that added to the richness of my life.

Somewhere along the way though, perhaps starting a few years ago, my time abroad started to feel unproductive and as if it was holding me back in many ways. I slipped into a very comfortable yet not really productive phase of my life. I make enough money to live comfortably here but I haven't been pushing myself to grow much beyond where I am and as a result I've slipped into a sort of low level depression/boredom.

I started to get the itch to change things up and head back to the states a couple years ago but instead sought out new experiences where I am, got a new girlfriend, got a new place here and so on. This all worked temporarily but ultimately I couldn't shake the feeling that I'm not progressing as much as I should be here and will be heading back to Chi town, where i'm from, in a few days.

Ironically, What once was me pushing beyond my comfort zone by leaving the US has become my new comfort zone. Life where I am is cheaper and easier than back home, but I feel a palpable void in terms of connection with friends back home and feel I'm limited in terms of career advancement where I am. I have a smoking hot younger girlfriend, but she's not very smart or challenging.

Bottom line is I think it depends on your motivation for living abroad, how you spend your time and the people you interact with. For me, I think my years abroad will be another chapter in the book of my life. I'm glad I did it, but it's time to start a new chapter and push myself in new ways.

I may ultimately split my time between where I am in Latin America and the states, alternating every few months, to get the best of both worlds. Or alternatively, simply plan a couple months a year to travel and seek out new experience, while focusing more on career and stability going forward.

I think the type A personalities came out to roast OP because he noticed a few things that are likely generally true. They then threw that back on him, because they don't trust that he's not the same joke. I don't totally blame them, this is the internet anyway --- but I always find it amusing when the fury comes on a guy just trying to be honest.

nomadium has interesting thoughts

I do agree that traveling out of the US just to get pussy is weird in that the whole point of going elsewhere is to find less spoiled, or more feminine women who haven't been corrupted by the west in the same way, via materialism and consumerism.

I also think that's why you see a large portion of guys talking about more traditional things lately here. Some of that has to do with age, some of it Roosh led, it's also a combo of both

Ive found what OP posted to be true.

I meet alot of bitter, lazy, loser expats. Trust fund babies that never worked a day in tbeir life or older retirees bitter about leaving. Also the guys that dont get layed in the states that think
that there is easy sex in eqstern europe. News flash: the best easy sex on earth is in the USA. I lived in both Key West and Cancun and would say if you want easy sex... Go there and bang US chicks on vacation.

Its very frustrating for me. I have a rule that you are who your friends are. I am ruthless about cutting losers from my life.

That said, most locals are quite tribal/. Nationalistic and dont ever fully accept an expat. They may tolerate me but truth be told I will always be an outsider to varying extents depending on the situation. .

This is the most frustrating aspect of expatriating long term. Finding quality positive men to become good, lasting friends with. Building a gang, a tribe of Tip Tier Men.

I never had problems getting top notch pussy back in the states. The problem was lack of femininity, submissiveness and wife potential. This combined with a police state and high taxes compelled me to leave, forevor.

At the end of the day, leaving was an extremely wise decision. What I gained was exponentially greater than what I sacrificed.

I would add that an expat that is in good physical, mental and financial health and top notch game is NOT an Alpha. This archetype is a lone wolf.... A Sigma. There are mostly betas trying to become alphas that fall into this loser expat category. Alphas dont naturally gravitate or thrive when leaving the social circles they dominate and homeland. This is the realm of Lone Sigma Wolves, a rare breed.

I came to the provinces to find a place where I could just concentrate on my own projects. Standing out like a sore thumb here is a ... mixed experience.

Some of the few expats are quite smart and goal orientated. They keep to their own clique.

The rest/ the other clique?

Holy fuck.

Alcoholics, punching bongs all the time, gravitating toward the more criminal elements in town for weed and hip hop laden evenings, conversation amongst these Native English speakers is both stilted and painful.
Tbh.. They're just cunts.

The other night I took a break from my hermit status and hung out with them. A lot of yelling into phones and at each other in the middle of the street. 2 guys took off together on their mopeds. One came back a minute later, "where's your buddy gone?" looks around confused, "I dunno he was just there"
Guy turns up a minute later. "How did you get that big cut on your leg?" "Whut?" "That cut, it wasn't there a minute ago.." Looks down, looks up, "Yeah, I thought I could feel like, .. a trickle?" "But how did you get it?" Guy looks around in confusion, looks genuinely pained.. "Yeah.. yeah.. I dunno man, I dunno.."

Kind of people if you ask them whether they like Cornflakes or Rice Krispies they cock their head to one side, give it the death stare and say "I can't discuss that with you man"

On the other side back home I was rehoused by the government and had the opportunity to rub shoulders closely with some of the more recent gimme-grants to visit our shores.

The western bro-mads in SEA just want to sustain their echo chamber of fuckery without being hassled. They do get hassled by their employers who make plenty of demands on these lost people.

The Gimme-grants in the Uk know exactly what they are doing and they are looking to get as much as they can from the government teat whilst inflicting as much damage as they can to anything and anyone that stands in their way.
And they are organised.
They are taking over their local streets one by one.

Would never happen with loser Westerners in Asia.

Quote: (05-19-2019 05:31 AM)zatara Wrote:  

A lot depends on where you go. If you're in some shitty second tier city in Eastern Europe then yeah, you're unlikely to find the best and brightest expats there. The most likely expats you're going to find there are there either exclusively for women, or to live in an extremely cheap location. Which in a lot (but not all) of cases is because they can't get women at home, and don't have a high enough income to live somewhere nicer.

If you move to a top tier international city like Dubai or Singapore you'll find plenty of extremely successful, intelligent, high income, very driven expats. Big cities with the best career opportunities attract the best international talent. But there are a lot of lifestyle sacrifices to be made with living in these places.

I'd agree with this. OP, if you wanna meet business guys trying to be top 1% in the world, EE probably isn't for you. Go to Hong Kong, NYC, or Tokyo for that. Maybe even London.

I think most people forget why there's motivation to go to these other countries in the first place. To have remote income in a place where you can get the same perks with better quality women for half the price of back home. I've heard a lot of comments about US women in here, and I really don't get the sentiment of it being the easiest country for sex. I've been to several countries where I've had an easier time, even one or two not known for it. That statement needs to be taken with a massive grain of salt, because I really only think that's even somewhat true on college campuses and maybe liberal big cities, which are maybe a handful. That doesn't really hold up in the suburbs or small towns with less population in the US.

Quote: (05-19-2019 10:04 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

There is nothing really profound to be learned here. If a man is truly happy in life -- and he is not a burden to his family, friends, or society -- then he is successful. I do not care whether he is a janitor, a refuse collector, or a septic system cleaner. All work, which is in demand in a free market, is worthy.

If someone is unhappy and he does not strive to improve his life, but simply accepts his condition out of laziness or apathy, then he is a loser. If he complains about it to others, without doing anything to change his situation, then he is a double-loser.

This hits home for the point I criticize OP on in my first response. There's this way of thinking in this thread that if you "can't make it in the US" then you are a loser. You need to get off the forum if you think like that. Plenty of guys here have had their lives turn around where western normies said guys retreated to because they "couldn't make it" in the US. The thing is, western life has a lot of corporate hustle with very little vacation time. Not everyone wants that, so some guys are willing to accept a more minimalist lifestyle or one where their income reduces by 1/2 or 2/3 in order to find happiness.

I personally get pretty antsy if I stay in the same spot for more than a couple months at a time. Most Americans only get two weeks off a year. I could go on but I've seen western guys in the Philippines that make maybe 20k a year be happier with a better outlook on life than guys in my home state who make 60k or more a year and are feeling empty or unfulfilled in other areas.

Quote: (05-20-2019 05:20 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

I do agree that traveling out of the US just to get pussy is weird in that the whole point of going elsewhere is to find less spoiled, or more feminine women who haven't been corrupted by the west in the same way, via materialism and consumerism.

I also think that's why you see a large portion of guys talking about more traditional things lately here. Some of that has to do with age, some of it Roosh led, it's also a combo of both

I don't really look at it that way, I see the point of dating girls abroad to open up your mindset and find people that you might not have ever expected to be compatible with you. We as men have to think bigger and be willing to look places other people won't for quality women. There's definitely still a stigma for dating girls in other countries, particularly poor ones, but I find it to be a beautiful thing honestly with how far we have come as a society where the resources and connectivity of a lot of cultures makes it possible for us to even attempt this. I find some great, hard to explain attraction, that I feel for foreign girls when I hear whatever accent they have that most of the time makes the girls sound so sexy and feminine.

Quote: (05-21-2019 06:15 AM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  

Alphas dont naturally gravitate or thrive when leaving the social circles they dominate and homeland. This is the realm of Lone Sigma Wolves, a rare breed.

I'd mostly agree with this. I definitely think it takes a bit of a lone wolf personality to take on an endeavor like that. Alphas I notice are good at building a local or regional social circle. That has personally never been my specialty given that I spend a lot of time planning travel to get away from my home environment. I'm more the type that tries to pocket a connection or two in several corners of the country or world rather than devoting my time to building a circle in a place I don't think is that great for the long term anyway.

When abroad for a while, loneliness or homesickness can kick in. Consistent mentality no matter where you are is important. Lone wolfs tend to already be used to solo environments and lack of true familiarity around them, so I'd say they have an advantage traveling abroad. Mastering the lone wolf style takes a lot of discipline and is something I'm personally deciding if I want to take on or not. But, I am of the belief by gaining discipline in this leads to self actualization, and those are the types of guys you may find in pockets like EE and SEA that can teach you a lot about life even if they don't have the highest savings account.

Alphas that expatriate tend to do so for work purposes and to first tier western citys like Paris, Berlin, London, Tokyo etc.. They exchange one social circle they dominate for the next. Otherwise they tend to stay put in thwir home country and just travel.

Betas often confused and frustrated with their local, low hierarchal status and lack of pussy, desperstely grasp at straws, often ending up in SEA, Colombia and EE. They become bitter, unhappy and often return to their life in the USSA.

There is finally Sigma.... a 3rd smaller subset of Archetype that is succsessfully assimilating into 2nd tier and rural locales. Arbitraging costs or accepting reduced incomes in exchange for dominance within their family group (wife) Making true sacrifices and content never fully dominating a social circle. Finding freedom in Organic Food, Patriarchal Family formation, low tax environments etc.. Sigmas are having an ever more difficult time existing in modern, progressive society, this is an interesting phenomenon.

I think sigmas have the best disposition for succsessful, long term and permanent expatriation.

^ By this definition, I am sigma in a lot of ways.

I don't want to get into this alpha/beta/sigma bs, but those people I've seen get the biggest benefit of expatriating are social white men, who for some reason are not living up to western machismo standards. This can be short, skinny or bland personality. I've particularly seen skinny, bland types, yet confident and sociable, do extremely well in Asia.

Icon* must himself be a beta then if he chose residency in Eastern Europe, surely there's some more Alpha/Gamma residency options out there.

Nevertheless, very entertaining, keep it coming!

There are endless numbers of working class alcoholic losers in the poorer suburbs of Australia where I was raised. Some of them gravitate towards Pattaya or wherever and are alcoholic losers overseas. Maybe they are happier there and enjoy the arbitrage of the weather, cheap booze and whores. Good for them. I don't really care one way or the other. I agree if they are bothering you, you are probably one of them or one step removed from them. Otherwise they're just not on your radar.

The OP seems to be still very young. Hence he is in a phase of a heavy determination of action and constant evaluation against peers.
Both are very characteristic of the western civilization.

In every stage of development the following saying is valid: When the student is ready, the teacher will appear
So I agree with LatinoHeat. If you haven't found a master to improve economically, you are not ready

When one grows older, one starts to see not just the economic success but also action in general as not so important. One sees that it is only temporary and without any profound spiritual value. BUT during life it is necessary to live through this period to be able to understand it in hindsight!

So good luck in your undertakings!

Quote:Quote:

Real winners bang the hottest girl teacher in high school, have a string of attractive girlfriends sidepieces through their 20s, and marry a girl 10 25 years younger in their early 30s late 40s, while having achieved a leadership position location independence before 30.

Cleaned that up for you brah

Bangboy.

Are you Autistic or just bitter about your low status in life?

I fit the description of Sigma to the bone. A status that has served me in good stead as an expat location independent Business Leader , Father ,Husband and LONE WOLF in Rural Estonia. Im well traveled and chose my current life on my own terms. I live a life most men dream about.

What compels you to make such a passive aggressive remark?

Very bitter, I blame women, they had it in for me for my whole life.

Lone wolf, business leader, international playboy, father, husband, living in rural Estonia.

Can you arrange a meetup there? We'd all love to meet such a Gamma Guy.

An old Russian joke.

Parents ask their teenage son:
-Why do you hang out with drug addicts and losers, can't you hang out with A students?
-No I can't because their parents won't let them hang out with me.

Quote: (05-21-2019 05:03 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

An old Russian joke.

Parents ask their teenage son:
-Why do you hang out with drug addicts and losers, can't you hang out with A students?
-No I can't because their parents won't let them hang out with me.

I love the old Russian/Soviet jokes. It is my type of humor. One of my favorites:

In Moscow, a husband has been standing in line at a butcher shop for seven hours when the butcher announces, “Comrades, I am sorry to inform you that we are out of meat.” The husband blows his top. “I am a worker! I am a communist! I am a veteran of the Great Patriotic Revolution!” he yells. “And now you tell me you’re out of meat! This country stinks!”

A large man in a trenchcoat approaches. “Comrade, Comrade, calm yourself,” he says. “You know what would have happened to you in the old days of Joseph Stalin if you had talked this way.” The large man makes a thumb and forefinger motion at his temple and says, “So please, Comrade, just go home.”

The husband goes home empty-handed -- and then his wife asks, “Are they out of meat?” “Worse than that,” says the husband. “They’re out of bullets.”

Quote: (05-21-2019 01:35 PM)flad Wrote:  

When one grows older, one starts to see not just the economic success but also action in general as not so important. One sees that it is only temporary and without any profound spiritual value. BUT during life it is necessary to live through this period to be able to understand it in hindsight!

Out of curiosity, what are you saying about "action in general' as not important. Whatever you did or do? Just wondering, the economic part makes sense but that reference was fuzzy.

Quote: (05-21-2019 08:38 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

Quote: (05-21-2019 01:35 PM)flad Wrote:  

When one grows older, one starts to see not just the economic success but also action in general as not so important. One sees that it is only temporary and without any profound spiritual value. BUT during life it is necessary to live through this period to be able to understand it in hindsight!

Out of curiosity, what are you saying about "action in general' as not important. Whatever you did or do? Just wondering, the economic part makes sense but that reference was fuzzy.

It is action in general. Instead of contemplation.

In the West action is often motivated by economics, sex and power. But not only. How often parents feel uncomfortable when their child is just doing nothing and relaxes? The child is always encouraged to do something e.g. doing sports, play with others, learn, clean up the room etc.

Quote: (05-18-2019 09:43 AM)ArloDash Wrote:  

I've been abroad for about two years now and I can't help but notice that the majority of people I mete are complete and utter losers who could not make it back in the USA, and have therefore restored to pillaging the developing world.

How big of a problem do you all find this to be, for those of you who have chosen to live abroad long term?

Yes, of course there's a shitload of benefits to living abroad...from financial, to better girls, healthier food, etc. The problem I find is that virtually nobody I meet exploits these opportunities to become better.

IE: They don't use the extra free time to invest or build a business. They don't use low prices to buy lots of healthy food to bulk up on. They resort to banging 6's instead of improving their game and chasing top quality tail. They don't even take advantage of FEIE...they just dig themselves into a tax hole that will probably come back to ruin them later in life.

I find most people who are abroad long enough end up emerging worse from the situation. More detached from society, living in an online eco-chamber where their beliefs are never challenged, poor and years behind on taxes and set up for financial ruin.

Who else has this problem? I find it really hard to surround myself with winners while traveling abroad in EE.

You've just described my last decade. Cant refute a word of it.

What I would say is that for a lot of people as they get older they naturally tend to settle. Their testoserone drops, the social changes of recent years wash over them and leave them somewhat isolated. They get used to situations and locations they once found new and exciting. They get comfortable.

I don't know how old you are, but it's sounds like you're twenties and making your way in life. If you're Serbian (i think thats the flag), then you will have grown up in a harder edged, masculine society than those of Western comfortable nations like USA, UK, Aus etc. A Serb or similar emigrating to America better have his shit together, as nothing will come easy, but the other way it's like the American has independent finance, grew up somewhat comfortably. Hard times breed strong men, and good times breed weak.