Quote: (04-14-2019 10:55 AM)Sangango Wrote:  

Quote: (04-14-2019 10:41 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Id ask her for her blond friends number

Haha yea of course that struck my mind as well already. I found the friend on Facebook already because they are connected there. Unfortunately she moved back to her parents now about 300km away from Berlin after breaking up with a psycho who threatened her and showered her apartment with butyric acid. She said originally she fell for him because she was a stupid teenager (19) and he impressed her by cracking a slot machine.

Young
+
Hot
+
Stupid
+
Bi sexual
+
Easily impressed
+
Crazy
+
Makes poor choices
=
Bet she sucks a mean dick

Shit....whats her number? Asking for a friend

Transsimian got closest on being wary of single moms
Her babies might be her #1, but what's wrong with being a unicorn's #2.

Her babies WILL always be number 1. Endstop.

Actually any guy in a serious relationship with a single mom "on the love spectrum" will come after the moms love of the family cat.

Always will be judged on how he treats her kid. (and cat)

She will always believe her kid(s) over the guy.

A guy is not in the "family unit" but outside always.

Also No.... adding kids of your own to hers or making more with her only makes her think you love your natural ones more....and more suspicion follows and questioning attitude (daily).

I went out with a single mom 30 years ago (just one story of many) she was my first love in public school but had moved away with her family. We met up 10 years later when she came back to town.
She was a single mom having gotten knocked up by the husband of the couple she babysat for. (just like porn vids!)
Anyways I started staying over at her place and all lovey dovey. Then one day she says "it's over"
Over why?
You snore and wake up Spongebob Jr.
What? your ending this because I snore FFS. (I then added up how much shit I've been eating with her)...your nuts... seeya.

Time and time again when I meet single moms it has been reinforced that the kids (as they should be) are number one. The guy better tread lightly ....lighter than her cat/dog/goldfish.

King of your own castle or the emperor with no clothes is a choice.

Good discussion. Some additional comments:

No, I haven't banged her - but I'd say I could if I tried. She was always doing herself up pretty nicely whenever she came around to my house, I could tell there was interest and she was putting in effort (lashes, makeup, hair, clothes.

She left her ex because he hit her AFAIK. Not just a few times. I agree that people find it easy to shame single mums, with the assumption that they simply left their ex (who was fine) because she became 'bored' or something trivial like that (or she hooked with an alpha bad boy she should have known was going to leave her). However, I'm sure there are also many cases where it was the guy who let himself go, was a loser, turned into an alcoholic, drug addict or some other kind of life destroying thing and the women (after sticking by him for more than long enough) decided it was better to move on.

I always read about the 'you'll always be number 2 to her child'. Of course you would be, as you would be even if it was your own biological child, right?

To look at this from a cold, logical perspective, a single mother is an opportunity for a guy who is a 6-7 to have an LTR with a women who is a 8-9. On the plus side, you get to judge what type of mother she is already.

To bang, they seem great. As a baby mama, the jury is still out. Sure - why not just find another quality childless girl, although aren't we all complaining that these don't exist?

BTW I met another one on the weekend. I'd give this lady a 9. Incredible body, I couldn't believe she had a kid and thought she was early 20's.

Pixelfree in Canada if the child of your wife/common law sweetheart calls you DAD and the relationship ends you will pay child support (along with biological dad) until the child finishes (in some cases) a university degree.

There are guys in Canada paying (by court order) for non adopted kids of there girlfriends that they lived with.(it's called "settled intent to be the father").. AND who wouldn't want to be the new daddy to the girlfriends child in a new relationship...right!...wrong

IF your 30 years old....and the girl you live with has a child 7 years old and calls you daddy.....if the relationship ends (that day) you will be on the hook financially for almost 20 years. (first degree at university)......university is expensive and according to "family law' it is a SPECIAL EXPENSE above and beyond child support (in most cases child support and the post secondary special expense is blended to a new higher dollar amount.)

When it's all done and over you are no longer 30 but 50 and the girlfriends child hated you years ago and your sweet girlfriend has been banging other guys while you sit raging in long term financial liabilities ...and she will make sure no guy will (move in) to replace her cash cow (s).

Think carefully......always wear a rubber .....no matter how loving she is....no accidents no regrets...and run

Single dad here.3 kids

The biggest cunts to me in the game have all been single mothers.Especially when they find out I actually look after my kids.

It ain't game if the chick is not younger hotter than you.

I find most dudes taken with singe mothers have no kids of their own hence get different treatment to single fathers.

Single fathers I know who hook up with single mothers all get moved as far as possible from their own biological kids especially if they have daughters.

Quote: (04-14-2019 09:19 PM)PixelFree Wrote:  

She left her ex because he hit her AFAIK. Not just a few times.

Oh god, If i had a nickel for everytime I've heard this...

While he's a scumbag of course, it says alot about her, too. She's damaged.
WHY would she have a kid with this loser?

Even if he didn't start hitting her from day1 she should've screened him better, instead of giving birth to his fucking child.

God damn, women!!!

Don't tell me she wouldn't KNOW something's wrong. Women are excellent at picking up human behaviour. But, nooooooo, Chad's giving her the tingles so it's all good.
Until he actually REALLY starts hitting her. Game's over. Fuck that.
Even if the ex was a master manipulator and turned 180 the moment she gave birth, she's now damaged and to a certain degree can't trust men fully.

Good luck cleaning up that mess.

Even if she's soooo pretty, and omg has a smoking body she's literally damaged goods and there's a plausible chance it's going to be hell for next partner. Textbook trainwreck.

^^^^

Seriously, it's a cliche at this point for a woman to play the "he hit me" card in 2019 when talking about exes. Almost all exes now are "abusive" in some way; especially if we are talking about western white women who have MASSIVE victim complexes.

If it's true she got smacked around, it's a reflection of her judgement; especially to have a kid with the guy. At a minimum, she doesn't know how to use birth control properly nor recognize really fucked up behavior.

If it's not (or only somewhat so) , then she is likely covering up something (ex: she cheated on the guy and THEN he hit her).

There are scumbag guys out there to be fair but when a women is playing the "he hit me" card early on, it would be extremely naive to believe her 100% without direct proof. Also if she was "abused" in some fashion, she will sure as shit not hesitate to call the police on you if you do even the slightest bit to trigger her. "I won't be a victim this time!"

You want to live on egg shells while some other guy got to use and abuse her goodwill AND got a kid out of her? AND you might end up paying for the kid due to fucked up common law/marriage rules?

It's just dumb all around. Way too much to risk and very little upside.

Unless she is a widow (and even then), single moms are strictly casual FWB situations as a man without kids. The amount of bullshit and trade-offs are almost never worth it.

If you are a 41 year old with a desire to have three kids, the LAST thing you should be entertaining is a single mom as a serious prospect. Committing even mental energy to entertaining the idea is a waste of limited resources and time.

Better options:

1. Join a religious group like the Mormons who pump out good housewife material.

2. Go outside the west where age differences are less of an issue and where more traditional housewife material can be found.

3. Find a mid-late 20's chick WITHOUT kids and whom has a decent head on her shoulders. They exist if you screen for them hard enough and don't waste time on things like trying to rationalize why getting serious with a single mom is a decent idea.

Quote: (04-14-2019 09:19 PM)PixelFree Wrote:  

Good discussion. Some additional comments:

No, I haven't banged her - but I'd say I could if I tried.

Youre here asking if you should have a relationship with her when you haven't even banged is like asking if you should keep a bag of money if it falls off an armored car.

Go bang her then come back after the 2nd time and ask again

Single mother only if she’s a hard 8 or soft 9. Trump supporter, feminine, traditional and Christian, great relationship with her parents.

Just kidding. Single mother is a no for anything involving dating. Maybe if you’re older and out of options.

None of these posts really address the biggest downsides to single moms.

They have no free time and more importantly, no truly private space to offer you to screw.

I mean, I'm a single dad myself, sole custody, and now empty nest and even I am not completely off the hook because my daughter comes home almost every weekend to work a job nearby, hence messing up my logistics.

If screwing is what you want to do, you need time to do it and you need a place to do it.

Every other weekend when dad has custody isn't frequent enough to keep satisfied and the backseat of a car while parked in a dark alley or trying to stay quiet doing it in her bedroom with the kids around sucks. I've even been caught in the act by the kids before. IT SUCKS. You'll wind up spending a lot of time with her keeping your hands to yourself because the kids are around, waiting for a moment to strike. SUCKS.

Even if you don't have a kid and offer your bachelor pad, she still has to clear the time to be away from her kids. Some single moms are also really skittish about appearing as anything other than Lady Madonnas to their kids and will be reluctant to paint the town red or (God forbid) stay the night for fear of what it might communicate to the kids about her character. That's when the pressure starts for you to INTEGRATE into her life so that she can maintain those June Cleaver ideals. Then you're going to have to try to weasel out of the soccer game and the recital and the family picnic. It's a matter of RESPECT she'll say. She's not just a BOOTYCALL! So goes the shit-tests.

That is just the tip of the iceberg of the emotional issues single moms have. The baggage from the earlier marriage, the child-rearing stress, the about-to-or-just-hit-the-wall insecurities, the financial impulse and peer-pressure to lock down a new provider, etc... ect.... Not that younger childless women don't have issues. Pick your poison.

Sure, because they're stressed out and have little free time they may deep-down want to fuck just to blow off steam, but it won't happen without all the caveats above.

Single moms are a fact of life and statistically speaking it may be unwise to rule them all out but just know what you're getting and what you're not.

I have the impression that everyone is judging from their own experiences.

Someone who has been once used as a wallet for a single mom should be very angry with all of them.

I am now dating a single mom. As an other user said before, I would prefer her over other sluts i've known. Why?
She is way different to other young girls. Someone needs to balance and to compare benefits. She is caring, sweet, etc.., we don't have problems (yet) about time, no boring night phone calls, she knows she has less options.
Sex is great.

Does it mean I am thinking LTR her? Noo!
Does it mean I am thinking marrying her? Hell, no!
Am I helping with some money to her kid? Imposible!


I even don't know her child and don't want to (her Psychologist said her that just after 1 year she could think about showing her partner to her kid).
All bills are 50/50. And I know that some guys here accept even pay for dates. It's not the case with this single mom.

I know -even before it would start- that this mini LTR has to end sometime. However, I enjoy passing the time with her.
By the time, I have a busy schedule so dating with her is ok because she also has not too much time free and she tries to use the available time at the most.
It's like a Titanic, you know that's going to sink soon but you can still enjoy the short time beforehand.

As I just said, I prefer her over other girls without kids because her character compensates the baggage she holds on.
For the rest, I just have proceeded as with any other girl.

About OP question, LTRing a single mom it's just possible -imo- if you have some special cases (single dad's, i.e., kid's dad is dead or too far away, etc).

For the pleasure of pussy, be smart, crafty, go ahead and show no mercy.

Quote: (04-17-2019 12:07 PM)questor70 Wrote:  

None of these posts really address the biggest downsides to single moms.

They have no free time and more importantly, no truly private space to offer you to screw.

I mean, I'm a single dad myself, sole custody, and now empty nest and even I am not completely off the hook because my daughter comes home almost every weekend to work a job nearby, hence messing up my logistics.

If screwing is what you want to do, you need time to do it and you need a place to do it.

Every other weekend when dad has custody isn't frequent enough to keep satisfied and the backseat of a car while parked in a dark alley or trying to stay quiet doing it in her bedroom with the kids around sucks. I've even been caught in the act by the kids before. IT SUCKS. You'll wind up spending a lot of time with her keeping your hands to yourself because the kids are around, waiting for a moment to strike. SUCKS.

Even if you don't have a kid and offer your bachelor pad, she still has to clear the time to be away from her kids. Some single moms are also really skittish about appearing as anything other than Lady Madonnas to their kids and will be reluctant to paint the town red or (God forbid) stay the night for fear of what it might communicate to the kids about her character. That's when the pressure starts for you to INTEGRATE into her life so that she can maintain those June Cleaver ideals. Then you're going to have to try to weasel out of the soccer game and the recital and the family picnic. It's a matter of RESPECT she'll say. She's not just a BOOTYCALL! So goes the shit-tests.

That is just the tip of the iceberg of the emotional issues single moms have. The baggage from the earlier marriage, the child-rearing stress, the about-to-or-just-hit-the-wall insecurities, the financial impulse and peer-pressure to lock down a new provider, etc... ect.... Not that younger childless women don't have issues. Pick your poison.

Sure, because they're stressed out and have little free time they may deep-down want to fuck just to blow off steam, but it won't happen without all the caveats above.

Single moms are a fact of life and statistically speaking it may be unwise to rule them all out but just know what you're getting and what you're not.

I matched with a 34 year old woman on tinder, she was a 6.5 in pictures and I wanted to bang an older woman just for the novelty. I invite myself to her place and she agrees. When I get there I find out she has a 14 year old son and he is having a game night reunion with his friends. I literally stood there for 20 seconds awkwardly and ran back to my car.

I hope this is an exception and not a majority of single moms who just expect you to be cool going to their place with their kids around. Imagine how bad the kid would feel if a 23 year old just comes to his house to bang his mom when he's having a gaming night with his friends.

The kicker is she messaged me "If you just wanted to use me for sex you should have said so". Guess she expected my 23 year old parental instinct to kick in?

Quote: (04-13-2019 12:35 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

I'm an older guy, so kids come with the milfs I bang mostly. The older women without kids are much more fucked up and unsuitable than the Milfs with kids.
Something about hitting 40 and not having kids makes a woman go crazy.

They get a lot of hate on this forum. Being a single mum doesn't automatically make a shit woman.

[relevant personal anecdote]

Don't rule out single mums.

I think the issue here is that single moms are among many topics that the manosphere deals with in a very black and white manner. It's useful for rehabbing someone who does all the wrong things in pursuit of their own version of success with the opposite sex. But after the training wheels come off, the usefulness of these false dichtomies deteriorate, if not become downright harmful.

Take alpha v. beta for example. At the very beginning of this forum, from 2008-2011, men would not only brag about notch counts, but kicking girls out after sex right after with little to no cuddling. One famous poster, Mixx even claimed he never slept with the same girl twice! But around 2012/2013, there was a huge uptick in hoes claiming that athletes and other sorts of high society figures had sexually assaulted them or raped them, instead of the usual entrapment with a baby. It slowly became common place advice on the forum to be "beta" after sex so the girl didn't feel used afterwards. It became common advice to even send texts afterwards saying you had a great time so that girls would reply the same which could be used in court in need be. I myself, resolved to not mix girls and alcohol for the most part when it came to first and second dates. As you can easily see, alpha versus beta as a concept, when tested against real life seems to show the best results when you use the right balance of each at the right time, rather than all or nothing of either one.

Same thing when it comes to single moms. For the most part, as a young guy you're better off chasing other single, childless women. You've got better options most of the time and these girls come with drawbacks that are harder to countenance at a young age. And sometimes these girls try to deliberate get pregnant to entrap a younger fella who looks like he's got his shit together. However, when it comes to middle aged men and men closer to the top end of the bell curve, single moms are a great option, given the reasons Ratinthewoods already described. No one would care if or fault an older man, especially if he had kids, for dating a single mom.

And honestly, I doubt most guys would really look down on you for getting with single Moms. If you wanted one as a girlfriend or wanted to marry one, you'd probably get a lot of advice and some flak advising you against it, for several good reasons. But ultimately, OP, you're your own man. You have to live with the consequences, both good and bad of whatever decision you make.

I wish you all the best.

G

I had an experience where I really liked a girl but didn't see her for a while. She was very good looking. Then out of a sudden I met her at a bar and she was super into me. Strange. That normally doesn't happen with 8 and above. We're talking and she tells me she has a 1yo kid. Ok. That turned everything inside me upside down. And it showed through my detached behavior and body language. It wasn't the manosphere or some other concept that got to me. Just my own reflection of the situation - I thought of her as a good long-term partner but now she's not suitable for whatever reason. My gut just said NO.

I was with my friend. He's older and already has a kid and divorce. He's ok with dating single mothers. He's ok with having a kid with a single mom because this is his situation as well. So he was super angry at me that I didn't take the opportunity. Started giving me a lecture on how when you're 30+ most girl you meet will be single moms or there will be something wrong with them. Single girl in her 30s and no kids would be a major red flag for him. Single woman in her 40s with no kids absolute red flag for him.

Anyway it is an interesting problem to deal with nowadays with so many divorces. I'm sure there're plenty of good single moms out there. But while I can choose, I'll choose the top quality product I can afford. For some men that will be a single mom. For others a model from a magazine. The reality for most of us is somewhere in between.

Had a thought about this when out with a single mom here in Colombia.

She's 28, has a 6 year old or something. Pretty hot, but still down to earth.

So I got thinking:
She's already had a baby, she isn't afraid to be a Mother, or to give birth. In a way she might be more receptive to keep it going and have another kid to round out the family. If you're looking to have a kid but are having trouble finding a real wife, getting a single mom pregnant is feeling like a realistic option.

I hate to be black pill, or cynical about making it work with a chick at 39, but sometimes it seems like getting married and divorced just sounds tough.

That said, not going in this direction. But the idea occurred to me.

Fianl verdict. Pre thirties single mom is better than post thirties childless.

By far the worst thing about being with a single mother is going to be dealing with her kids. If you're just smashing her then its not a concern other than trying to find some time and space to have sex with her. The problem begins if you get roped in deeper with her. To date a single mother and try and be a dad to her kids is just a disaster waiting to happen. I remember I was boning this Polish chick that had kids and I flat out told her that my kids are my priority and her kids are her problem. I made it clear that I wanted nothing to do with her kids and that she would never be meeting my kids. I don't understand dudes that don't pay enough attention to their kids so that they can pay more attention to some single mother's kids but it's happens often enough.

I have a good friend who married a chick that had kids while he had none. He had his own kids with her but her other kids never accepted him at all as a father figure even though he has spent a boatload of money on them over the years. While there are exceptions to every rule, generally speaking, you will have a difficult time being accepted by her kids, they want their real dad, not a surrogate father. If one is going to mess around with single mothers, my hard and fast rule would be to never, ever meet or get involved with her kids because it is too complicated to thread that needle. It's why I put it bluntly to that Polish girl about her kids. Seeing my friend's heartbreak from the utter rejection of his wife's kids after doing his best with them for over 10 years has convinced me that blended families are a mess and should be avoided. Hence the risk with single mothers.

On single mothers in general:

You're over 30, she's under it
She's single due to death of the husband
The children are very young

Dating single mothers seriously to me just screams: "I'm out of options." Who the hell wants to deal/pay for kids that aren't yours, the complications of a blended family, being second fiddle to the kids. No thanks.

Quote: (04-18-2019 10:50 AM)Graft Wrote:  

Dating single mothers seriously to me just screams: "I'm out of options." Who the hell wants to deal/pay for kids that aren't yours, the complications of a blended family, being second fiddle to the kids. No thanks.

Well this is the reality for a lot of men. Access to "high quality" girls is limited. This is why so many of you are flying out of the country looking for the poosey paradise.

Quote: (04-18-2019 10:50 AM)Graft Wrote:  

Dating single mothers seriously to me just screams: "I'm out of options." Who the hell wants to deal/pay for kids that aren't yours, the complications of a blended family, being second fiddle to the kids. No thanks.

It sounds like you're equating dating with years-long relationship in this example.
I'm sure some single mothers will try to rope a sucker into being a step-dad/wallet sooner rather than later, but others won't even consider introducing you to their kid(s) for months (that's the right way to do it if it's fairly young children in my opinion) and may not have any inclination to make you semi-official step-parent in the even remotely near future (particularly if the kid is still with his father regularly) or try to make you pay for child specific expenses.
As far as dealing with the children - unless you're a cold hearted bastard, or the kids are utter terrors most of the time (and I'm sure some are), you'll almost certainly bond with them even if it's not in a father-replacement role but just "mom's friend". Of course that brings a different set of problems.

I speak from experience (one fairly long, a few others short), and I'm quite sure I hadn't found the unicorns of single mothers.

Quote: (04-17-2019 05:36 PM)Tinder Scientist Wrote:  

When I get there I find out she has a 14 year old son and he is having a game night reunion with his friends. I literally stood there for 20 seconds awkwardly and ran back to my car.
...
The kicker is she messaged me "If you just wanted to use me for sex you should have said so". Guess she expected my 23 year old parental instinct to kick in?

What you're describing is exactly how it is!

When you date a single mom and she invites you over, you are being invited to share her life. Guess what her life entails? Doting over her child. So the best you have to look forward to is cracking open a beer and watching TV together with a physical barrier between the two of you because you have no privacy and the kids are randomly wandering in and out of the living room. The younger the kids, the more disruptive the vibe. Any single moms with kids younger than maybe tweeners are really too consumed with the kids to have anything left for a boyfriend. But it's these single moms with young kids who want dicking the most for this very reason. It's a perfect recipe for female hamster neuroses.

Single moms feel socially isolated by being just around the kids and only the kids. Sure, they want a good dicking, but they also just want another adult around, period. Parenting is best handled by a married couple. When only one person is in the household it can feel like a prison. So she may not necessarily be auditioning for a second husband, but she desperately wants you to log some hours in the household the way a husband would, even if you're not called upon to do chores and scold the kids.

Quote: (04-17-2019 11:47 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

she would never be meeting my kids.

This is the OTHER end of the equation for single moms. They will eventually want to meet your kids/friends/family.

The thing with single moms is they are still mentally in a married/family/wholesome headspace. That's where the neuroses begin. She's so busy being supermom that she can't deal with the idea of being a bootycall (even if she would gladly be living a sex and the city lifestyle had she been single and childless). It's just the shift that happens when you have kids. Moms are expected to be more wholesome. She's probably much more engaged with her extended family who are all helping her cope with it all, and they will be busy judging her every move (and yours).

So if you meet her kids, she'll expect to meet your kids, otherwise she'll accuse you of treating her as a "dirty little secret".

I just haven't found single moms capable of truly compartmentalizing a relationship down to recreational, at least for any length of time. They just can't deal with all of the moral judgments they suffer from friends and family.

I recently had dinner with a friend and his situation is an interesting one from many different angles.

He's seeing a woman that is in an open relationship. Her husband doesn't mind. So far so good. She's in her mid 30s and she has kids from her husband. And she wants kids with my friend.

Funny thing is my friend loves it. He's loyal and doesn't cheat on her. He thinks that she's the best partner ever - no fights, great time, great sex and he doesn't see the kids at all since she has to travel to a different city for work to see him.

My friend is in his prime, good looking, tall, dated many girls over the years, in his thirties and with a great salary and job. He practiced game for a long time. Actually we started together. I guess society gets the best out of you in this country.

What country is that?

Quote: (04-18-2019 10:51 PM)Conquistador Wrote:  

What country is that?

The U.S.A.