Quote: (04-12-2019 09:23 AM)doc holliday Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 01:18 AM)eradicator Wrote:  

Quote: (04-11-2019 11:56 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

Well Eradicator, over the last 30-40 years we have actually seen a large degree of inflation which would correspond to the large increase in these various government programs of giving out money.

nope




If there was any truth to what you were saying we would see an explosion in the inflation in the 1960s(with the start of LBJs great society) to the present.

We certainly did see a spike in inflation in the 70s due to a number of factors, the oil embargo and jacking up of gas prices, taking the dollar off of the gold standard, and Nixon and the federal reserve drastically lowered interest rates.

But it didn't last beyond the 1970s, if the increase in taxes to pay for safety net programs was causing inflation, we would see it in the numbers. It hasn't happened.

The government doesn't print up money and give it out. The fed does that. (the fed is not controlled by any branch of the government, it is made up of privately owned banks)

You can't just dismiss the 20yr spike in inflation after the implementation of LBJs social programs. There's a reason inflation spiked after the 60s and this is part of the reason. Also that chart doesn't show the explosion in the cost of healthcare, housing and college that has occurred in the last 15 years. Are you going to deny that those things haven't exploded in cost just because this chart hides that fact?

This UBI is pie in the sky economics and it will destroy the US once and for all. If they couldn't make it work in Finland, how on earth will they make it work here? I suspect a lot of people here want this so that they can live out their dream of traveling to pussy paradises to chase pussy all day and get paid to do so without having to spend any time doing any work.

I personally want it so I can afford to have kids and also afford to spend time with my kids. A huge majority of Americans cannot say they both can afford to have kids and raise them in a safe neighborhood and also have time to spend with them.

The reason these prices are skyrocketing is more due to the amount of population growing without jobs/need for these people. We are paying to feed more mouths with less ability to do so every single year. And this doesn't stop no matter who wins the election, Democrats or Republicans.

At least with UBI, some of the cost of feeding these extra mouths is going to be passed on to the billionaires selling us out and replacing us with foreign labor and/or robots and then getting tax cuts on top of it all and storing money overseas/buying off politicians.

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:10 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 01:18 AM)eradicator Wrote:  

Quote: (04-11-2019 11:56 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

Well Eradicator, over the last 30-40 years we have actually seen a large degree of inflation which would correspond to the large increase in these various government programs of giving out money.

nope




If there was any truth to what you were saying we would see an explosion in the inflation in the 1960s(with the start of LBJs great society) to the present.

We certainly did see a spike in inflation in the 70s due to a number of factors, the oil embargo and jacking up of gas prices, taking the dollar off of the gold standard, and Nixon and the federal reserve drastically lowered interest rates.

But it didn't last beyond the 1970s, if the increase in taxes to pay for safety net programs was causing inflation, we would see it in the numbers. It hasn't happened.

The government doesn't print up money and give it out. The fed does that. (the fed is not controlled by any branch of the government, it is made up of privately owned banks)

Milton Friedman (Nobel Prize winning economist in case you didnt know) would disagree with you.

@23:00 "The government (sic) federal reserve failed and caused the Great Depression,...Just like the myth that a failure of labor and management caused The Great Depression you will hear today that its labor and management that cause inflation. This time the Fed Reserve is failing it is failing in a different way by causing inflation Inflation is caused in one place and one place only....Washington DC"

The video is relevant to this thread for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is that its a speech that was given in 1977. The 42 years since have provided additional evidence that more government isn't the solution.

By the way the concept of UBI isn't new. The idea has been kicked around in one way or another for decades. Here Milton Friedman and William Buckley Jr discuss a "negative tax" idea (which is essentially an alternative, better IMO, to UBI) in 1968

Government isn't the solution...its the problem. Always has been.

More government almost always and without fail makes things worse.

Friedman will not touch the central issue in the monetary system, the fact that money injected into the economy has debt attached to it. Over the course of decades, about 40 to 50 cents go to cover the debt on every dollar issued. This is the main driver for inflation.

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:05 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

...
There's work to be done but in most midwest states (Dunno about Phoenix) there's no money to pay the workers. Winner take all economics like we have in the late 2010s means that all the money leaves the heartland and heads for the coast, where it goes into the pockets of whoever owns Uber, Amazon, etc. stock.

As a guy who does labor on the side, I can't find enough guys to show up on time and work.

So I'm not sure on what you're basing this.

There is money coming into the middle from at least NYC. I know. I worked with a guy who made $ in tech, now lives back here, and has NYC investors w̶a̶n̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶o̶u̶r̶ pouring money into non-unionized areas in the middle.

(corrected myself)

There's lotsa guys who don't want to work. They want to sit. They want to drive. They want to party. They want to drink or smoke weed. This is not to incriminate men, but to simply posit an opposition to "automated cars, WE NEED UBI!"

Rant: I'm so fucking sick of this "the sky is falling, the jobs are disappearing" mentality. Look around. There's shit to do. There's wealth. There's people who want to spend money on dumb homemade shit.

I'm torn. I'd love it if I'm one of the few guys out there working hard and making money off of people who want to spend it. The other side of me is concerned I'll keep paying more and more in taxes to support the lazy people chucking rocks at automated vehicles.

Quit fucking bitching. Some boomer out there is sitting on his pension not wanting to clean their backyard, or who can't fix the bottom step of their basement stairs because they're 75 and too old. Go find that boomer and take his money in exchange for a few bucks and quit fucking bitching.

Edit: Sam, that's not a rant against your post, this thread just gets me goin.

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:40 AM)heavy Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:05 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

...
There's work to be done but in most midwest states (Dunno about Phoenix) there's no money to pay the workers. Winner take all economics like we have in the late 2010s means that all the money leaves the heartland and heads for the coast, where it goes into the pockets of whoever owns Uber, Amazon, etc. stock.

As a guy who does labor on the side, I can't find enough guys to show up on time and work.

So I'm not sure on what you're basing this.

There is money coming into the middle from at least NYC. I know. I worked with a guy who made $ in tech, now lives back here, and has NYC investors w̶a̶n̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶o̶u̶r̶ pouring money into non-unionized areas in the middle.

(corrected myself)

There's lotsa guys who don't want to work. They want to sit. They want to drive. They want to party. They want to drink or smoke weed. This is not to incriminate men, but to simply posit an opposition to "automated cars, WE NEED UBI!"

If you told these men that you would pay them enough to afford for their wives to stay home and take care of the kids. And the laws would allow them to have control over their household again, rather than letting the state come in and support women at every turn. And if you told these men their wives would be thin, feminine, and waiting on them in the evening in their heels and dresses with a warm dinner and their 3 well behave kids cleaned up...

I think the men would fight tooth and nail for these jobs.

But those things are all gone, the things that motivated men to work and sacrifice are gone. Pretty much the only thing left motivating men to work their butts off is a false dream of having all of that one day, which is just not going to happen, or their parents guilt tripping them into working hard.

The system is broken beyond repair. But you know what, with UBI we get this funny new way of choosing a politician. "Oh you promise free healthcare, and more jobs? Yea I have heard that before. Well this other guy is offering me $1,000 a month. So you need to offer me $1,200 a month to win me over or you can go to hell".

Right. I have that doomsday perspective on our country as well.

But in the meantime, (1) let's not grow the bureaucratic corporate-state that made this mess, and (2) work your ass off to make it in life.

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:40 AM)heavy Wrote:  

Edit: Sam, that's not a rant against your post, this thread just gets me goin.

Then perhaps you should leave.

Jesus. I'm on record with being disappointed with the God Emperor, but I don't go into that thread and bring up the same old points over and over again like the people against UBI here have done. ("Who's going to pay for it?" "Aren't you just being lazy?" "But there's plenty of jobs right now, so the future will be like that too, right?" "SOCIALISM!") Discussion is one thing, and welcome, but a lot of the people who are arguing haven't done the research, haven't listened to Andrew's plethora of interviews on multiple channels where he's addressed their concerns, and aren't coming from a position of good faith where you assume the person with a different perspective isn't a laz piece of shit. If you don't want to be here, don't be.

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:54 AM)heavy Wrote:  

Right. I have that doomsday perspective on our country as well.

But in the meantime, (1) let's not grow the bureaucratic corporate-state that made this mess, and (2) work your ass off to make it in life.

That is the great thing. I think all the men here are on the same page. The country is in serious trouble and how the hell do we save ourselves. We just disagree on how to do so. But in the big picture we all agree and we must remember that.

You can read about me from my post this morning in the Trump thread. It is very unlikely anyone here has worked harder or sacrificed more than me. And I am not bragging about it, in fact I am ashamed of it. I haven't had sex in 2 decades because work and money came first. And you know what, I still can't make it. I am still not where I want to be. Today I saw a very attractive woman in the super market at 7:30 AM. Why was she there? I am lucky, I am a tall good looking guy. I started lifting weights in the early 1990's and never stopped. She was checking me out. You know what I did? I put my head down, acted shy, because deep down I know I can't afford her. And I am getting close to the top 3% of wealth individually in the USA and living in the cheap midwest. And I know that if I were to lose my job she would be gone and despite me having a high skill set in a high demand field, I would probably never find another job.

What I am saying is the "pull yourself up by the boot straps" days are over. There is no motivation for men to do so. So if the elites are going to destroy our lives we will no longer work like slaves for them.

As far as the large govt., neither party is serious about reducing the size of govt.

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:40 AM)heavy Wrote:  

Quit fucking bitching. Some boomer out there is sitting on his pension not wanting to clean their backyard, or who can't fix the bottom step of their basement stairs because they're 75 and too old. Go find that boomer and take his money in exchange for a few bucks and quit fucking bitching.

Edit: Sam, that's not a rant against your post, this thread just gets me goin.

When you say this shit, who are you talking to? You can't be talking to anybody here. I don't think I've seen anybody here "bitching" about how their lot in life is unfair.

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:23 AM)doc holliday Wrote:  

You can't just dismiss the 20yr spike in inflation after the implementation of LBJs social programs. There's a reason inflation spiked after the 60s and this is part of the reason.

OK I think I am starting to get your confusion. If you are saying, or thinking, that we are printing up money, USA dollars, to cover the costs of these programs, then that would actually increase inflation. Our treasury doesn't print up money out of thin air to pay for social welfare programs, it's covered by taxes and borrowing.

Paying for these or other programs, with tax revenue or borrowed money, doesn't increase the money supply or increase inflation.

Quote:Quote:

Also that chart doesn't show the explosion in the cost of healthcare, housing and college that has occurred in the last 15 years. Are you going to deny that those things haven't exploded in cost just because this chart hides that fact?

It's just supply and demand. The number of houses and apartment buildings stays essentially the same(it goes up a little as we build new buildings), but the population goes up a lot more.

We are encouraging all children to go to college. If they don't then they are considered to be some sort of failure by many Americans. This drives the cost of education up.


https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much...-2018.html

Quote:Quote:

Everyday life is far more expensive today than it was even 20 years ago. The rise in prices can't be attributed to inflation, either.
In 1940, the median home value in the U.S. was $2,938. By 2000, it had risen to $119,600 and today it's just over $200,000. Even adjusted for inflation, the median home price in 1940 would only have been $30,600 in 2000 dollars.

The number of colleges has stayed the same, the population has shot up.

Quote:Quote:

Private nonprofit four-year institution
Tuition for 1987-1988: $15,160
Tuition for 1997-1998: $21,020
Tuition for 2007-2008: $27,520
Tuition for 2017-2018: $34,740
Public four-year institution
Tuition for 1987-1988: $3,190
Tuition for 1997-1998: $4,740
Tuition for 2007-2008: $7,280
Tuition for 2017-2018: $9,970

OK fine. If you are going to say the only solution is to close our borders, I'm actually agreeing with you. I think we also need UBI

The rate we are going, we will have doubled our population from 1970 to 2070.

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:23 AM)doc holliday Wrote:  

I suspect a lot of people here want this so that they can live out their dream of traveling to pussy paradises to chase pussy all day and get paid to do so without having to spend any time doing any work.

You say that like it's a bad thing? :???

As I've said before.

The difference between Yang's proposal and standard welfare is that you can still work and get Yang's UBI.

As it stands welfare is sapping productivity because most people are not going to do shit jobs for shit pay if welfare will simply pay them the same amount to do nothing at all.

If you get paid 1k a month and everything you earn on top is a bonus then there's every reason to keep working. As it currently stands if you're a minimum wage schmuck then you're better off simply jumping on welfare and watching daytime television. Strapping morally upright conservatives can shriek and howl all they like but it doesn't change the fact that if you pay a human the same amount to either work or do nothing then a great deal of them will choose to do nothing.

But frankly the programming some people seem to have is so calcified that these explanations keep bouncing off of them like ping pong balls. "Socialism bad. Welfare bad. Automation good. Taxes bad. Government bad. Free markets good." It's total NPC territory.

For one, if you've got a problem with welfare and government intervention then your Republican president is sitting in the Whitehouse right now. What's he doing to unleash the free market? Five tenths of fuck all?

You're running close to trillion dollar deficits. Have any of you staunch fiscal conservatives stopped to ponder what would happen if your moral inclinations were taken to their logical conclusion? The USA would collapse, immediately. You're not arguing for minimal government, no welfare and free markets. You're arguing to walk the tightrope of pseudo-socialism with trillion dollar deficits just a teeeeensy bit further to the right.

For that matter how are you going to tell Joe Schmo that the hundreds of thousands of dollars Uncle Sam is racking up in debt not only on his tab but his wife's tab and every kid he has that he's not entitled to a piece of that that he can pay his rent with?

The middle class is slipping in massive numbers to lower-middle class status and their federal government is increasingly telling them that not only does it hate them because they're white and privileged, it's going to saddle them, their children and their children's children with another 10,000 dollars of federal debt a year, all of it to go to to the swamp, for ever and ever amen.

Who the fuck actually believes the USA is a free market capitalist society? Who the fuck would actually work 60 hours a week just to keep their head above water in that kind of utterly broken oligarchical prison state? Some of you guys are very wealthy. I get it. You want to keep the music going as long as you possibly can. But the dirt-people are not obligated to prop up the swamp with their suffering just so that you can enjoy the fruits of having invested early in bitcoin.

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:36 AM)911 Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:10 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 01:18 AM)eradicator Wrote:  

Quote: (04-11-2019 11:56 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

Well Eradicator, over the last 30-40 years we have actually seen a large degree of inflation which would correspond to the large increase in these various government programs of giving out money.

nope




If there was any truth to what you were saying we would see an explosion in the inflation in the 1960s(with the start of LBJs great society) to the present.

We certainly did see a spike in inflation in the 70s due to a number of factors, the oil embargo and jacking up of gas prices, taking the dollar off of the gold standard, and Nixon and the federal reserve drastically lowered interest rates.

But it didn't last beyond the 1970s, if the increase in taxes to pay for safety net programs was causing inflation, we would see it in the numbers. It hasn't happened.

The government doesn't print up money and give it out. The fed does that. (the fed is not controlled by any branch of the government, it is made up of privately owned banks)

Milton Friedman (Nobel Prize winning economist in case you didnt know) would disagree with you.

@23:00 "The government (sic) federal reserve failed and caused the Great Depression,...Just like the myth that a failure of labor and management caused The Great Depression you will hear today that its labor and management that cause inflation. This time the Fed Reserve is failing it is failing in a different way by causing inflation Inflation is caused in one place and one place only....Washington DC"

The video is relevant to this thread for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is that its a speech that was given in 1977. The 42 years since have provided additional evidence that more government isn't the solution.

By the way the concept of UBI isn't new. The idea has been kicked around in one way or another for decades. Here Milton Friedman and William Buckley Jr discuss a "negative tax" idea (which is essentially an alternative, better IMO, to UBI) in 1968

Government isn't the solution...its the problem. Always has been.

More government almost always and without fail makes things worse.

Friedman will not touch the central issue in the monetary system, the fact that money injected into the economy has debt attached to it. Over the course of decades, about 40 to 50 cents go to cover the debt on every dollar issued. This is the main driver for inflation.

And who "injects money into the economy" that has "debt attached to it". Free enterprise?

More government spending + less taxes = inflation

He very clearly states this

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:07 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:40 AM)heavy Wrote:  

Quit fucking bitching. Some boomer out there is sitting on his pension not wanting to clean their backyard, or who can't fix the bottom step of their basement stairs because they're 75 and too old. Go find that boomer and take his money in exchange for a few bucks and quit fucking bitching.

Edit: Sam, that's not a rant against your post, this thread just gets me goin.

When you say this shit, who are you talking to? You can't be talking to anybody here. I don't think I've seen anybody here "bitching" about how their lot in life is unfair.

It's in response to "we need UBI because of disappearing jobs!". There are disappearing jobs. We have a corrupt system. I just don't think it's bad enough to throw it away. And if you don't throw away the system, you figure out a way of working within it. And there are still opportunities within the system.

I get concerned when the solution for the problems caused by a huge Federal government is more Federal government.

Politically, I still can't figure out why it makes sense for the Feds to be meddling with redistribution of wealth anyway. I get it at a local church or hospital. I get it to some degree at a state level. I just don't get it at the de-localized level of a third of the continent.

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:12 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Who the fuck actually believes the USA is a free market capitalist society? Who the fuck would actually work 60 hours a week just to keep their head above water in that kind of utterly broken oligarchical prison state? Some of you guys are very wealthy. I get it. You want to keep the music going as long as you possibly can. But the dirt-people are not obligated to prop up the swamp with their suffering just so that you can enjoy the fruits of having invested early in bitcoin.

Me and the vast majority of people I know that have worked themselves from having literally nothing to affluence.

Shit...Im really glad I didnt know I couldn't

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:25 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:12 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Who the fuck actually believes the USA is a free market capitalist society? Who the fuck would actually work 60 hours a week just to keep their head above water in that kind of utterly broken oligarchical prison state? Some of you guys are very wealthy. I get it. You want to keep the music going as long as you possibly can. But the dirt-people are not obligated to prop up the swamp with their suffering just so that you can enjoy the fruits of having invested early in bitcoin.

Me and the vast majority of people I know that have worked themselves from having literally nothing to affluence.

Shit...Im really glad I didnt know I couldn't

Affluence would mean you don't have to work and your kids will never have to work. Granted you teach your kids to work, but that is for lessons, not so they have to be slaves that work.

If you made it to this level, that is awesome. I've exhausted myself trying and have failed. If by "affluence" you mean a $500,000 house and a new car, and you can pay for it all as long as you keep your job, that is what I still call just working class and not making it.

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:25 AM)heavy Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:07 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:40 AM)heavy Wrote:  

Quit fucking bitching. Some boomer out there is sitting on his pension not wanting to clean their backyard, or who can't fix the bottom step of their basement stairs because they're 75 and too old. Go find that boomer and take his money in exchange for a few bucks and quit fucking bitching.

Edit: Sam, that's not a rant against your post, this thread just gets me goin.

When you say this shit, who are you talking to? You can't be talking to anybody here. I don't think I've seen anybody here "bitching" about how their lot in life is unfair.

It's in response to "we need UBI because of disappearing jobs!". There are disappearing jobs. We have a corrupt system. I just don't think it's bad enough to throw it away. And if you don't throw away the system, you figure out a way of working within it. And there are still opportunities within the system.

I get concerned when the solution for the problems caused by a huge Federal government is more Federal government.

Politically, I still can't figure out why it makes sense for the Feds to be meddling with redistribution of wealth anyway. I get it at a local church or hospital. I get it to some degree at a state level. I just don't get it at the de-localized level of a third of the continent.

You're clearly telling somebody to "Quit fucking bitching". Who are you talking to? Are you just shouting it into the void?

Quote: (03-22-2019 08:53 AM)Valentine Wrote:  

Quote: (03-22-2019 08:23 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

The nation is gonna get raped no matter what, none of the Dems ever keep their promises, it doesn't matter which one of them get elected. This should be obvious.

Lots of people will die, no matter what, and our entire civilization is going into a dark age. We were built upon the rock of Christ and have become unmoored, now comes the rain and floods to wash away the detritus until things are clean again and the mustard seed can be replanted in fertile ground.

Being part of the GOP is my best guess to try and be a part of the mustard seed. People may not like this answer but sadly we are not left with many choices right now.

If you agree it's inevitable then Black Knight's arguments make total sense. The best chance for surviving this dark age is by (1) accelerationism causing this crash to happen whilst you're young and fit rather than old and weak, (2) YangBux to help fund your own safety measures and that of separatist communities.

There is nothing accelerationist about electing a Democrat.

They will raise taxes and greatly forestall the life of the Federal government as it descends into absolutely tyranny (no guns, no jobs, high taxes, being White is a crime, women can accuse anyone they want and have them jailed, etc).

You don't kill an organization by giving it more money. A VAT tax is one such tax, among many others, that charlatans like Yang will put into place.

That said, I agree with Yang's destructive potential inside of the Dem party. I notice the elites are ignoring him. They don't like him. Good!

I will probably vote Yang in the primaries (like I did with Bernie) because Trump has no chance of losing his primary.

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:17 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:36 AM)911 Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:10 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 01:18 AM)eradicator Wrote:  

Quote: (04-11-2019 11:56 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

Well Eradicator, over the last 30-40 years we have actually seen a large degree of inflation which would correspond to the large increase in these various government programs of giving out money.

nope




If there was any truth to what you were saying we would see an explosion in the inflation in the 1960s(with the start of LBJs great society) to the present.

We certainly did see a spike in inflation in the 70s due to a number of factors, the oil embargo and jacking up of gas prices, taking the dollar off of the gold standard, and Nixon and the federal reserve drastically lowered interest rates.

But it didn't last beyond the 1970s, if the increase in taxes to pay for safety net programs was causing inflation, we would see it in the numbers. It hasn't happened.

The government doesn't print up money and give it out. The fed does that. (the fed is not controlled by any branch of the government, it is made up of privately owned banks)

Milton Friedman (Nobel Prize winning economist in case you didnt know) would disagree with you.

@23:00 "The government (sic) federal reserve failed and caused the Great Depression,...Just like the myth that a failure of labor and management caused The Great Depression you will hear today that its labor and management that cause inflation. This time the Fed Reserve is failing it is failing in a different way by causing inflation [b]Inflation is caused in one place and one place only....Washington DC[/b]"

The video is relevant to this thread for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is that its a speech that was given in 1977. The 42 years since have provided additional evidence that more government isn't the solution.

By the way the concept of UBI isn't new. The idea has been kicked around in one way or another for decades. Here Milton Friedman and William Buckley Jr discuss a "negative tax" idea (which is essentially an alternative, better IMO, to UBI) in 1968

Government isn't the solution...its the problem. Always has been.

More government almost always and without fail makes things worse.

Friedman will not touch the central issue in the monetary system, the fact that money injected into the economy has debt attached to it. Over the course of decades, about 40 to 50 cents go to cover the debt on every dollar issued. This is the main driver for inflation.

And who "injects money into the economy" that has "debt attached to it". Free enterprise?

More government spending + less taxes = inflation

He very clearly states this

No dude, re read the highlighted portion that you quoted. He is talking about the federal reserve, which is not controlled by the government, but rather a private entity made up of 12 banks


from Wikipedia

Quote:Quote:

A Federal Reserve Bank is a regional bank of the Federal Reserve System, the central banking system of the United States. There are twelve in total, one for each of the twelve Federal Reserve Districts that were created by the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.[1] The banks are jointly responsible for implementing the monetary policy set forth by the Federal Open Market Committee, and are divided as follows:
Federal Reserve Bank of Boston
Federal Reserve Bank of New York
Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia
Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland
Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond
Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta
Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis
Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis
Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City
Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas
Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco
Some banks also possess branches, with the whole system being headquartered at the Eccles Building in Washington, D.C.

Yes, the fed is headquartered in Washington DC. No, the monetary policy and the federal reserve are not controlled or governed by the usa government.

The president appoints the chair of the fed but doesn't have any control over her.

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:37 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:25 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:12 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Who the fuck actually believes the USA is a free market capitalist society? Who the fuck would actually work 60 hours a week just to keep their head above water in that kind of utterly broken oligarchical prison state? Some of you guys are very wealthy. I get it. You want to keep the music going as long as you possibly can. But the dirt-people are not obligated to prop up the swamp with their suffering just so that you can enjoy the fruits of having invested early in bitcoin.

Me and the vast majority of people I know that have worked themselves from having literally nothing to affluence.

Shit...Im really glad I didnt know I couldn't

Affluence would mean you don't have to work and your kids will never have to work. Granted you teach your kids to work, but that is for lessons, not so they have to be slaves that work.

If you made it to this level, that is awesome. I've exhausted myself trying and have failed. If by "affluence" you mean a $500,000 house and a new car, and you can pay for it all as long as you keep your job, that is what I still call just working class and not making it.

deleted

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:46 AM)eradicator Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:17 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:36 AM)911 Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 09:10 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 01:18 AM)eradicator Wrote:  

nope




If there was any truth to what you were saying we would see an explosion in the inflation in the 1960s(with the start of LBJs great society) to the present.

We certainly did see a spike in inflation in the 70s due to a number of factors, the oil embargo and jacking up of gas prices, taking the dollar off of the gold standard, and Nixon and the federal reserve drastically lowered interest rates.

But it didn't last beyond the 1970s, if the increase in taxes to pay for safety net programs was causing inflation, we would see it in the numbers. It hasn't happened.

The government doesn't print up money and give it out. The fed does that. (the fed is not controlled by any branch of the government, it is made up of privately owned banks)

Milton Friedman (Nobel Prize winning economist in case you didnt know) would disagree with you.

@23:00 "The government (sic) federal reserve failed and caused the Great Depression,...Just like the myth that a failure of labor and management caused The Great Depression you will hear today that its labor and management that cause inflation. This time the Fed Reserve is failing it is failing in a different way by causing inflation [b]Inflation is caused in one place and one place only....Washington DC[/b]"

The video is relevant to this thread for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is that its a speech that was given in 1977. The 42 years since have provided additional evidence that more government isn't the solution.

By the way the concept of UBI isn't new. The idea has been kicked around in one way or another for decades. Here Milton Friedman and William Buckley Jr discuss a "negative tax" idea (which is essentially an alternative, better IMO, to UBI) in 1968

Government isn't the solution...its the problem. Always has been.

More government almost always and without fail makes things worse.

Friedman will not touch the central issue in the monetary system, the fact that money injected into the economy has debt attached to it. Over the course of decades, about 40 to 50 cents go to cover the debt on every dollar issued. This is the main driver for inflation.

And who "injects money into the economy" that has "debt attached to it". Free enterprise?

More government spending + less taxes = inflation

He very clearly states this

No dude, re read the highlighted portion that you quoted. He is talking about the federal reserve, which is not controlled by the government, but rather a private entity made up of 12 banks


from Wikipedia

Quote:Quote:

A Federal Reserve Bank is a regional bank of the Federal Reserve System, the central banking system of the United States. There are twelve in total, one for each of the twelve Federal Reserve Districts that were created by the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.[1] The banks are jointly responsible for implementing the monetary policy set forth by the Federal Open Market Committee, and are divided as follows:
Federal Reserve Bank of Boston
Federal Reserve Bank of New York
Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia
Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland
Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond
Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta
Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis
Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis
Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City
Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas
Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco
Some banks also possess branches, with the whole system being headquartered at the Eccles Building in Washington, D.C.

Yes, the fed is headquartered in Washington DC. No, the monetary policy and the federal reserve are not controlled or governed by the usa government.

The president appoints the chair of the fed but doesn't have any control over her.

The Fed Res set "policy" as in interest rates...not where its spent. But it doesn't :

Print money... the US gov does.

Decide where all that money goes...the US gov does via the budget

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:25 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:12 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Who the fuck actually believes the USA is a free market capitalist society? Who the fuck would actually work 60 hours a week just to keep their head above water in that kind of utterly broken oligarchical prison state? Some of you guys are very wealthy. I get it. You want to keep the music going as long as you possibly can. But the dirt-people are not obligated to prop up the swamp with their suffering just so that you can enjoy the fruits of having invested early in bitcoin.

Me and the vast majority of people I know that have worked themselves from having literally nothing to affluence.

Shit...Im really glad I didnt know I couldn't

Gosh. Here was everyone thinking that heartland America had been gutted by offshoring and by targeted environmental regulation when all that really happened was that people stopped believing in themselves.



If you hate the UBI then go tell Trump to get Kentucky coal mines back in operation. Tell him to to stop tweeting about the opioid crisis and actually do something about it.

We're not talking about whether a Democrat should be replacing a Democrat. We have literally been reduced to asking whether a Democrat will actually do more for downtrodden white dirt-people that a sitting Republican president.

Would we even be having this conversation if Trump wasn't such an impotent faggot?

Now if your opinion is that white dirt-people in the heartland either need to sack up and learn to crypto or politely starve to death then please, make that position clear. Personally I noted that none of you staunch capitalists had the guts to touch nomadbrah's mention of affirmative action with a ten foot pole.

Absolutely gutless when it comes down to it. Just like progressives you know which people to kick and which ones to walk wide around.

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:59 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:25 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:12 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Who the fuck actually believes the USA is a free market capitalist society? Who the fuck would actually work 60 hours a week just to keep their head above water in that kind of utterly broken oligarchical prison state? Some of you guys are very wealthy. I get it. You want to keep the music going as long as you possibly can. But the dirt-people are not obligated to prop up the swamp with their suffering just so that you can enjoy the fruits of having invested early in bitcoin.

Me and the vast majority of people I know that have worked themselves from having literally nothing to affluence.

Shit...Im really glad I didnt know I couldn't

Gosh. Here was everyone thinking that heartland America had been gutted by offshoring and by targeted environmental regulation when all that really happened was that people stopped believing in themselves.



If you hate the UBI then go tell Trump to get Kentucky coal mines back in operation. Tell him to to stop tweeting about the opioid crisis and actually do something about it.

We're not talking about whether a Democrat should be replacing a Democrat. We have literally been reduced to asking whether a Democrat will actually do more for downtrodden white dirt-people that a sitting Republican president.

Would we even be having this conversation if Trump wasn't such an impotent faggot?

Leonard

You and I have almost never disagreed on "problem" positions.

Where we diverge is the solutions.

I cant get on board with "burn it all to the ground" in order to "build it again".

Inverse anecdote:

https://www.nkytribune.com/2018/01/kentu...ry-issues/

Quote:Quote:

Kentucky real estate market sets record for third straight year despite issues with available inventory


For the third year in a row, Kentucky’s real estate market set new records in a number of areas despite inventory issues that kept many buyers on the sidelines for much of the year.

Maybe coal mining isn't a good field in Kentucky anymore but something else apparently is

Should we end the fed?






Probably. If we were to switch back to a currency based off of gold, we would not need a federal reserve.

Are people even discussing the issues or are they engaging in a convoluted status signaling game?

Quote: (04-12-2019 10:53 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

....

Quote:Quote:

Quote:Quote:

And who "injects money into the economy" that has "debt attached to it". Free enterprise?

More government spending + less taxes = inflation

He very clearly states this

No dude, re read the highlighted portion that you quoted. He is talking about the federal reserve, which is not controlled by the government, but rather a private entity made up of 12 banks

....
Yes, the fed is headquartered in Washington DC. No, the monetary policy and the federal reserve are not controlled or governed by the usa government.

The president appoints the chair of the fed but doesn't have any control over her.

The Fed Res set "policy" as in interest rates...not where its spent. But it doesn't:

Print money... the US gov does.

Decide where all that money goes...the US gov does via the budget

The US government doesn't "print money". It has to borrow at interest by selling interest-bearing treasuries with the assistance of the Fed, in order to cover its budget deficits and debt payments. The Fed's private shareholders receive a tax-free 6% dividend from the government on an arbitrary Fed "surplus", as per section 7 of the 1913 Federal Reserve Act.

https://newrepublic.com/article/116913/f...dout-banks

Very few people really understand the fundamental mechanics of the US monetary system, they don't teach it at business school. Many of us do understand that this system is a highly opaque usury scheme that places an unnecessary debt burden on the economy for the benefit of those at the top of the banking system.

This is a great starting point, you should put these videos in your queue:












Basically, the middle class and working poor are squeezed in between this bankster class and the eternal welfare mooching class. The former have been far more destructive and parasitic than the latter, who end up putting all their handouts into the economy, as opposed to hoarding it and raising the debt/tax burden.

The great thing about Yang's UBI is that it breaks the welfare monopoly of the perennial welfare class, and it could eventually be a powerful tool against the bankster class as well, if UBI is issued directly/debt-free via the US Treasury (ie, the gov prints it, interest-free).

Quote: (04-12-2019 08:21 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Quote: (04-11-2019 10:03 PM)Sumanguru Wrote:  

Also,

Quote:[/url]

Hadn't occurred to me that Uber/Lyft are basically fighting to hold on long enough until autonomous driving tech becomes proficient enough to cut out drivers. Considering the drivers get 80% of the fare and all the tip, Uber getting rid of the people behind the wheel would be very beneficial for them.

[url=https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/11/uber-spent-457-million-on-self-driving-and-flying-car-rd-last-year/]https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/11/uber-s...last-year/

Quote:Quote:

Uber spent $457 million last year on research and development of autonomous vehicles, flying cars (known as eVTOLs) and other “technology programs” and will continue to invest heavily in the futuristic tech even though it expects to rely on human drivers for years to come, according to the company’s IPO prospectus filed Thursday.

R&D costs at Uber ATG, the company’s autonomous vehicle unit, its eVTOL unit Uber Elevate and other related technology represented one-third of its total R&D spend. Uber’s total R&D costs in 2018 were more than $1.5 billion.

Uber filed its S-1 on Thursday, laying the groundwork for the transportation company to go public next month. This comes less than one month after competitor Lyft’s debut on the public market. Uber is listing under the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol “UBER,” but has yet to disclose the anticipated initial public offering price.

Uber believes that autonomous vehicles will be an important part of its offerings over the long term, namely that AVs can increase safety, make rides more efficient and lower prices for customers.

Quote:article Wrote:

Uber almost doesn’t feel like a business, but rather some essential service that investors believe should exist, so they’ve continued to inject money into it. Something so useful would have to make money at some point, right?

This is simply outrageous. It's not even about the automation, it's about the business model - do we truly have an economy where the only way to be profitable is to suck on venture capitalist money until you become a global monopoly and can extort everyone? What's wrong with the entire system?

The worst offender in this area is Amazon: after 20 years in business, the company still doesn't have almost any profits.



What's going on here?

I don't get how uber is losing money? They provide a platform, and are not buying cars or doing any driving. They take a flat fee of 30%(I think) of what their drivers earn while driving on uber. They have a relatively small staff, and sure spend some on advertising, donating to politicians and developing robot drivers. But all of their income comes from sitting back and taking a slice of every piece of work their drivers do.