For those of you genuinely interested in a discussion instead of making things personal, I present a somewhat controversial and provocative discussion.

Then again, a wise man did say free speech is not free...

And for those who want a genuine discussion......

Something has come over me in the past years that has slowly grown to making me miserable on some days and I think it mentally affects more guys (outside of those that peaked early in life) than we would care to admit, but thankfully I am slowly getting over it. It is all around me, in messages I see in media, society, and among socializing with normal folks.....

Speaking about things we don't want to admit, all of us in here are to some degree affected by society and media, even if we might deny it or claim to be "red pilled". In fact, because it affects so many of our fellow men and even our fellow citizens, it affects us.

This is one of those threads were I borderline go conspiracy theorist on you guys. Let's ask a few questions:

How often have you heard high school years being described as being the "best four years of your life"?

How often have you heard college being described as the "best four years of your life"?

Chances are if you live in the US, where things like fun, excitement, and getting around are concerned, those years are considered the peak. Except there is one idea that exists, men peak later in life than women do and usually tend to get more attractive with age compared to women.

The years where women are generally at their peak (anywhere from 18 to early 20s)?

Note that in the grand scheme of history, college (especially as a means of partying rather than learning), is a relatively new phenomenon. It used to be that college was for the very few and wealthy to educate their kids, not accessible for most.

Considered the most fun years of anyone's life to party, experiment, hookup, make friends, socialize, and have the time of your life. The years considered to be "cool" and the phase of life a lot of movies, advertisements, media, and even the general thoughts of society are geared towards whenever we think about fun, excitement, hooking up, getting around, and doing cool shit. Sex during this phase of life is portrayed as hot, spicy, arousing, and a great whirlwind of emotions.

Outside of the jock and rich frat guy, most guys were not at their peak during these years. I am finding that most guys were not the prime college players with the dibs on the hottest sorority girls.

How about the years where men start to peak (anywhere from late 20s to our 30s)?

Considered the years to "get serious" about life; synonymous with marriage, kids, settling down, and admitting that your best days are behind you. The years of the boring adult because adults are lame, no more getting around and no more making cool friends to do fun shit with, you should have gotten it out of your system in college. Rarely is it seen as normal or something even remotely "cool" by media for a man to be single after this age and still getting around.

Outside of the rare Hugh Hefner story, the idea of a man using his wealth to fuck around with women, have a cool social life, party it up, and have his fun is so foreign to almost everyone that it may as well be a fantasy.

Weird thing is, it is such a strong influence that a lot of forum members would actually agree that it is good for a man to be settled down into a marriage with kids once he is past the age of thirty compared to him experimenting with his peak sexual value.

It affects us more than we think.

When women are in their peak social years, everyone has the least amount of "responsibilities" which means things like social life and making new single friends is something not only somewhat more doable but also socially accepted. You go to college, you're supposed to make a ton of new friends and go to a ton of new parties.

Now compare that to a man's peak years, fellow men your age start to get married with kids. People around you start to put off things that are fun and life gets more "serious" to where everyone expects a marriage, kids, and something more "stable" from you. It is abnormal and even strange for you to be doing things like sleeping around, making new friends, going out to party, socialize, and doing stuff you find fun as a man after you have made it in life.

You made it, earned all the money, great, now go fucking get married and grow the fuck up already!

It is this gut-wrenching feeling that after all of a man's hard work in life of building up his empire, making money, and succeeding in life that he is not allowed to enjoy his riches. He is being hounded by society to get married already and have kids now that he is in his prime, at times even punished and ostracized for sleeping around, making new friends, and escaping the marriage life. That no matter how hard a man works or what he does, his prime years are almost incomparable to that of a woman's and any entity that peaked the same age as women did.

Maybe that is just how it is supposed to be, maybe we fantasize about an unrealistic life as men, and perhaps it is time to stop resisting and give in to the expectation of a marriage and kid by the age of 30 or forever be condemned. Maybe the fun and exciting years of life stopped at 25.

For most guys who were not the rich kid in a fraternity or a star athlete on campus, the youth years left some things to be desired. A good bit of guys who are on this forum probably came to improve themselves and work towards a greater result with life and with women. To have the cool life they could never get in their youth, some of it due to circumstances out of their control.

Yet at every turn, society and media try hard to convince them it is abnormal and quite the lie. American society and media tell them that it is a lie, and most men fall for it, meaning less and less men after a certain age are eligible to live that life and if they live that life they are mostly alone in it.

Maybe society is conveniently set up in a way that the years were are supposed to peak are the prime years for fun, sex and social opportunities for both sexes while the years men are supposed to peak are the worst.

I am missing something here as an American but I cannot help but think that the reason high school and college years are overwhelmingly, aggressively, and passionately worshiped by American society might have something to do with them being the years that women peak. Meanwhile, life after the early 20s is loathed and seen as miserable bland hell for fun, sex, and socializing because men happen to peak in those years.

Quote: (03-31-2019 01:57 AM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

Maybe that is just how it is supposed to be, maybe we fantasize about an unrealistic life as men, and perhaps it is time to stop resisting and give in to the expectation of a marriage and kid by the age of 30 or forever be condemned. Maybe the fun and exciting years of life stopped at 25.

For most guys who were not the rich kid in a fraternity or a star athlete on campus, the youth years left some things to be desired. A good bit of guys who are on this forum probably came to improve themselves and work towards a greater result with life and with women. To have the cool life they could never get in their youth, some of it due to circumstances out of their control.

Listen, ignore the stupid shit people tell you. As a man you should be continually honing your skills and craft, keeping your body in fighting condition, and increasing your wisdom.

When you are young it's a big deal to make sure you are attractive to the opposite sex. Mid life crisis guys get this too... where they feel their life is over and they want to recapture some youth.

I think there comes a point in life where chasing random pussy just doesn't do it for you anymore. You crave a deeper and more intimate connection.

I know that tomorrow when I wake up, I will go get my daughter and then we will go watch some cartoons together and drink milk. That sounds stupid and boring, but I would not trade those moments for all the random sex in the world. My daughter is a part of me... and she loves me in a way I just have never experienced before... and it's awesome.

So, my advice is this. Don't worry about peaking or not peaking. Maybe you were the best you will ever be at age 22 and you will never be able to score hotter girls than back then. Instead understand that the best parts of life... the parts that really mean something... are ahead of you and not behind.

You are overthinking it. Old men wish they were young again.

1) You'd feel better if you didn't bother with what's considered cool or what others thought.
2) The reason people say high school/college is the best time of their lives is more or less because they're losers(like, as in descriptively, not as in insultingly). As an adult you gain much more control and freedom and meaning in your life. There's also the fact that it is not in fact better even for them but they feel better if they look at the past with rose colored glasses.
3) If you don't like marriage, realise it's catered to people who do. The more conservative someone is, the more they enjoy having a family and raising it.
4) Get better at reading faces and how people are feeling. Hugh Hefner was miserable. Hedonism breaks you and you need more and more to feel normal.

It's only regarded as 'the best years of your life' by the average schmuck cause that's when you didn't work sixty hours a week and weren't upto your eyeballs with debt and other responsibilities.

All that matters now is what actions you're taking to improve your life.

I hate to make it personal, but how old are you exactly? You're sorta speaking like a guy who doesn't have much experience with what he's talking about.

A for effort, but C+ total because this is all theorycrafting. Are you even 25 yet?

Can you just stop, already? You have 600 something posts on the forum, and if at least 400 of them don't touch on this theme of "woe is me, I missed out on high school/college social life", I'll eat my hat. You've had guys tell you over and over again how to deal with this, but you don't want to hear it. You just want to whine and lament about the glory days you never had while you seethe in jealousy over the good times Chad and his frat brothers enjoyed. You just can't seem to accept the fact that:

LIFE
ISN'T
FAIR

As a result, you are utterly paralyzed by regret and bitterness. This mindset will literally ruin your life if you let it. It's going to make you miserable. Stop obsessing about the past and figure out how you want to life the rest of your life. Imagine that today was actually the day you were supposed to die, but that you were granted a reprieve. Everything from here on is a bonus, it's extra life. What do you want to do, how do you want to live? Do you want to be miserable or do you want to embrace this wonderful gift that's been given to you? It's really your choice. All you have is the time left in front of you, the past is gone.

Being in high school and college provides one big undeniable social advantage which I miss dearly, that is being around people that you have the most things in common with, day in and day out. You're the same age, maybe in the same class studying the same stuff, and in high school these are kids you literally grew up with who are your neighbors. Sure, if you're not the jock you're at a disadvantage but you still have that social proof in your back pocket. Most boys don't realize how much harder it is in the real world.

Once you are thrust out into the world the closest thing to that is the workplace but workplaces are much more diverse and you really shouldn't shit where you eat, as they say.

In addition, the nostalgia older men have for those days comes from learning more about female nature. Most men learn that through the school of hard knocks, but once you get to a certain point you realize you have more tools at your disposal to get what you want and to protect yourself, and you look back at how clueless you were and think gee, I wish that I knew what I know now.

Life is mostly a game of trying to avoid trial and error and hence avoiding the most regret over doing stupid things or not doing enough when you had the chance.

Quote: (03-31-2019 08:42 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

Can you just stop, already? You have 600 something posts on the forum, and if at least 400 of them don't touch on this theme of "woe is me, I missed out on high school/college social life", I'll eat my hat. You've had guys tell you over and over again how to deal with this, but you don't want to hear it. You just want to whine and lament about the glory days you never had while you seethe in jealousy over the good times Chad and his frat brothers enjoyed. You just can't seem to accept the fact that:

LIFE
ISN'T
FAIR

As a result, you are utterly paralyzed by regret and bitterness. This mindset will literally ruin your life if you let it. It's going to make you miserable. Stop obsessing about the past and figure out how you want to life the rest of your life. Imagine that today was actually the day you were supposed to die, but that you were granted a reprieve. Everything from here on is a bonus, it's extra life. What do you want to do, how do you want to live? Do you want to be miserable or do you want to embrace this wonderful gift that's been given to you? It's really your choice. All you have is the time left in front of you, the past is gone.

Seriously, at this point , I don't know why RVF members keep replying to his posts.
His bitterness is clear in every single post and he never listens to any advice.

Use that resentment to fuel something positive. Use it to make you a monster in the gym, or at work, or with pursuing your business. Festering in it is just missing an opportunity to use that energy. Anger is good if used correctly, but you have to use it.

I sympathize with guys that are trying at any age to do something traditional like find a wife and start a family in this current culture.

But dudes that aren't tied down to anything yet are still complaining that life sucks?

Holy shit. I hope this makes sense. I wouldn't trade my wife and kids for anything in the world, but if I woke up again single and in my early 20's I would be rocking shit like it was nobody's business. There is so much to see and do, and not even half of it relates to having to deal with other people at all.

Eat ramen noodles for a few months then buy a motorcycle and ride across the country. You live in America for fucks sake. How are you not alive?

Quote: (03-31-2019 10:26 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Eat ramen noodles for a few months then buy a motorcycle and ride across the country. You live in America for fucks sake. How are you not alive?

B/c the guy is fixated on sex and the dating game, or doesn't understand how to enjoy his own company/maybe has a slight insecurity about doing things out of his comfort zone or doing things without other people. The world is WIDE OPEN, there's so much to discover/do. And here's the kicker, there's people that marry the traditional girl and still have SHIT MARRIAGES/kids that don't give a fuck about them except for what their inheritance will be. Everyone focuses on the portrayals of the traditional family in media, not the realities of actual day-to-day life in that arrangement. Not to mention, by the time your great-grand kids roll around, no one in your family will give a fuck about who you are/were. So just go and explore. Do ballsy shit.

On a side note, I wonder if OP watches porn/masturbates alot, b/c one of the biggest psychological effects of excessive porn consumption is fixation on relationships with women. Not trying to be harsh with this statement, but if it fits you OP, it might be something to change around a bit.

Interesting topic.


Fist thing of all, who says that I am supposed to be "condemned" after I reach 30? Which law MANDATES ME to get "serious"!?


I am, at the moment, 29 years old. According to the MSM and whatnot, I am good only for a scrapyard. (Un)fortunately, that is far away from the truth. As years pass by, I am becoming WAY MORE COOLER than when I was a teenager. I am becoming WAY MORE INTERESTING as a person (due to some quite unique experiences), and I have no problem finding company-men or women. And most importantly, I am becoming WAY MORE PSICHICALLY ATTRACTIVE because I lift and do cardio.


All in all, I don't miss my Uni and high school days, as most people probably do. The older I get, I am more repulsed by them, because I feel I was robbed of my true potential. Back then, in those dark days, I was a skinny dude - I could only attract ugly girls. I was uncool, because I was not good at sports (I still suck, lol). And, finally...I was considered "weird" because I was more intelligent compared to others - I could see patterns, and realize things that the average sheep can't (and that only a true independant red pill man can.) Oh, and add a few points to the "weird" factor because I played WoW then (mages and paladins rule111!!!).



But...as I said...fortunately for me (and unfortunately for some), Irenicus, an "uncool" guy, a nobody in his HS/Uni days, who is supposed to be condemned into uncoolness eternal...


(1)...is the only guy in his class that completed a military service, with impeccable record, and with honors. As infantryman. Impressive for a "uncool guy that plays WoW and is still a virgin".


(2)...is in way greater shape that most of my former classmates, who let themselves go (relatively few didn't, respect to them!). A year ago, I met one of them. Back in Uni, he was crazy about gym. Thanks to his hard work (and some steroids), he looked pretty good, and was slaying pussy. When I met him, I barely recognized him...he was a fatso. He felt a little bit intimidated by my presence - mind you, I am 185cm and 88kg - nowhere close to Arnold. When we parted ways, I grinned and spoke to myself "Good job in Uni, brah...now...for the next 60 years, it will be MY turn, and nobody will stop me".


(3)...can attract quite attractive women (16+) without putting a lot of effort- that "special ability" of mine seems to be getting stronger as time passes by. Admittedly, I can't attract most 9/10 girls yet, but most (again, MOST) 7 and 8 will drop down their bitch shields and be prepared to be boarded. This I could not accomplish a few years ago. Or actually...I could, with uggos and plain Janes.

Now...yours truly likely scored an unicorn - she works out (she does true excersises - not some Mickey Mouse programs most women at the gym do), and works a real job (hairdresser). Most importantly, she is below my acceptable age treshold of 24 (which was lowered from 25 this year - meaning if you are a women older than 24, you're not getting into a LTR, or marriage, with me). As soon as I do more family background checks, and as soon as she consents to an OLTR (on my part only, she's disallowed), she is good to go. If she doesn't...I'll have some fun with her, and will, in time...hand her over to some beta chump to marry. Who was cool in high school.


(4) ...owns an online business (I have mentioned which one in relevant threads). At the moment, I am learning programming (aiming to be full-stack web developer), so that the amount of online businesses can be increased to three. Only back-end and WP remain (front-end is done, ask away if you need something done). I have already secured some gigs here and there, earned good money, and I plan to expand the quality of my services and knowledge. In time...I will be able to work from home. Strange...I thought your brain starts to die as soon as you leave college!


And so much more, but I won't delve into that... .



Anyway...the main point of my post is that your days in HS/college are not necessary the best years of your life - it really depends from person to person. As you can see from my example, they weren't, and I am not missing those days at all. And I won't, because I have the feel that I was robbed from my destiny, and procrastinated. On the other hand, some dudebro, who did well there, but does not do so well now, will.



Always forwards, never backwards. Fuck the MSM and their BS.

The promotion of these university years to be "the best" is mostly to ensure that young people will consume as much possible and not build the condition of their future success.

Quote: (03-31-2019 11:09 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  

The promotion of these university years to be "the best" is mostly to ensure that young people will consume as much possible and not build the condition of their future success.

It also makes them accept wage slavery, as this is what's to be "expected" after those glorious college years.

Quote:Quote:

How often have you heard high school years being described as being the "best four years of your life"?

It was only dipshits that were popular or football players saying such a thing back then. They all ended up as townies or in dead-end jobs in the town they went to high school in.

Quote:Quote:

How often have you heard college being described as the "best four years of your life"?

I heard it more frequently, but again thought these people were imbeciles. College is like a huge summer camp or a closed ecosystem. To be clear, it presents an awesome opportunity for gaming and hedonism. But that’s the high point. It also offers opportunities for learning. So if someone made the case that you’ll never be in a position to learn again like you were in college (because of access to professors, like-minded people, libraries, conferences) they’d most likely be correct. To think that you would peak at ages of 18-22 is retarded if you understand the potential for human development. I could go on.

I think for guys in fraternities and chads maybe it is pretty good. But that’s setting the bar pretty low. I had a roommate, from east coast, was some sorta chad back at his suburban high school. We wanted to join a frat. So he did. It was a lower tier one. Deep down we both knew this, but of course we never talked about it. So, even for a chad, I’m sure deep down he knew he wasn’t getting top pussy (from my observations this is true too). To put it another way, the only guys getting top pussy at the university were guys in the top 3 frats or so… couldn’t be more than maybe a few hundred men, keeping in mind the uni was between 5000-10000 undergrads. Would you call that a black pill? You probably would… These guys had generational wealth and that itself was what got them into the frats. You had to have the right vibe too; cali bro, southern gentlemen, or hard partier/ ambitious business climber. Why am I saying this? You will never be them. Life sucks.

Quote:Quote:

… men peak later in life than women do and usually tend to get more attractive with age compared to women.

This idea which is being promulgated prominently on the forum is becoming increasingly disturbing to me for several reasons:

It is an observation of the way things are, but it is also an assumption that many carry, and hold to be a fundamental truth. Or, put another way, it may generally be true, but becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy for many men who are questioning their development. I think generally it is damaging to hold it as gospel because many young men will internalize it. In some cases, it may even impair them from living in the moment. Why should you live in the moment? Well, you’re not given tomorrow. The world is fucked up, and to tell young men that they will peak when they near thirty is depressing as well as giving false hope. Indeed, things may be much worse when they peak than they are in the present.

Sometimes I read lay reports from old time gamers on the forum, just to understand what it was like for them gaming about 8 or more years ago. What I get is that many were young, broke, but fucking grinding, maybe even in dead end jobs or living with a roommate or parents. Putting themselves out there. Approaching. Leveraging social circle. Being creative and industrious to get lays. Not status obsessed, not money obsessed, not looks obsessed. But game obsessed. That, I think is what we need to get back to. We need to be obsessed with game. If we have political or societal goals for change those need to be dealt with a different framework rather than the game framework. The bottom line is I look back at these old reports and threads, and I get the impression that the guys gaming then weren't black-pilled. I think there is a clear correlation between game failure and the black pill. I want to see that optimism and grind back....

It is also reflexive reasoning that allows men an excuse for their impaired development… “Oh, I’ll peak later, not to worry.” You have no clue when you peak. Churchill didn’t start his first term as PM until he was about 65.

My friend's father peaked likely between ages of 21-27, multiple years of slaying pussy, including a year stint in Paris fucking libertine French and foreign girls. Such a golden period for men is probably going to happen once, time and maybe location restricted. It may also be money restricted, or even impaired by employment, school status, or lack thereof. Any self-aware older man should recognize when he peaked. Likely he knows the causes (likely not wealth), but rather, location, social circle, best age for women (ie universally appealing to hottest women, maybe something like ages of 22-27), and lack of serious work commitments, as well as ability to uproot on quick notice to ride the wave and move somewhere better.

Also, I have a problem with the statement because many western women have a problem with age gap relationships. I think many guys that have been abroad forget age gaps in the west are not as permissible in liberal west as they are in other parts of the world. So you lose access to many of the prime women. Going back to college, most women date men roughly around their own age.

Sex in university is heavy on drugs and alcohol so I see nothing special at all about it. It is all about hookups. It is embarrassing and childish. Your roommate is fucking a girl drunk off her mind in his bunkbed. Or, your roommate got some ecstasy and is fucking some girl he met at a frat party after they started rolling.

I think also this is a statement, or rather rationalization, made by men who may be in a better situation than they were in younger 20’s, but like women, they fail to see completely accurately their market value, to all players in the market, rather than just some subset or niche were they have been succeeding by all accounts.

A man should settle down whenever the fuck he wants, but he should not rush into marriage if the girl is possibly a thot. A man should also be cognizant that once he settles down, there is no going back unless he gets divorced. Even less chance of going back if he has kids.

Men also peak later now, because media and society is conditioning us to do it. They are telling us that we are failures. They are telling us to go to university. They are telling us the student debt is ok. They are telling women this too, but they paint women as winners. They tell women that they peak later too. Ie mid 30’s now because of dolts like Sheryl Sandberg or that idiot Melissa Mayer, or even the New Zealand PM.

If the most fun you had was in uni or high school you’re doing something wrong. My life is fucking next level since I got out of university, completely fucking bonkers mate. If you want to have fun, you will have it. You just can’t be acting like a NPC or coming to the table with all these assumptions. The most important thing to remember is everyone else can fuck off, and you get to do what you want. As a high testosterone forum member that is red-pilled with deep analytical abilities and who has been de-programmed, you do whatever the fuck you want. Go to Colombia or something. Don’t think, Act!

As for me mate, I'm eying an exit strategy right now. I'm running out of time. Work is threatening to suck me into the corpro-cuck matrix and once that happens and I'm fully plugged in, I likely won't be able to get out unless I come upon an inheritance or something like that. I am counting my cash, biding my time until I can get out of this middle american hellscape. I'll only peak once, that's the odds, and maybe I already did, being 22... I'm not content to hear this self-serving talk that I'll peak in 8 more years. That sounds like an excuse for inaction. I don't know where I'll be going. Maybe it will be LA, maybe it will be New York (those are the only places I can think of entertaining in the US at the moment)... maybe it will be Budapest or Prague, Bogota or Panama City. I hear the clock ticking and know the time is running out. I don't have the patience for dating apps, and I need to be out on the street gaming. I need to be out there before the #metoo and feminism movements hit the more conservative countries. I gotta get going...

Quote: (03-31-2019 12:42 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  

Quote:Quote:

How often have you heard high school years being described as being the "best four years of your life"?

It was only dipshits that were popular or football players saying such a thing back then. They all ended up as townies or in dead-end jobs in the town they went to high school in.

Quote:Quote:

How often have you heard college being described as the "best four years of your life"?

I heard it more frequently, but again thought these people were imbeciles. College is like a huge summer camp or a closed ecosystem. To be clear, it presents an awesome opportunity for gaming and hedonism. But that’s the high point. It also offers opportunities for learning. So if someone made the case that you’ll never be in a position to learn again like you were in college (because of access to professors, like-minded people, libraries, conferences) they’d most likely be correct. To think that you would peak at ages of 18-22 is retarded if you understand the potential for human development. I could go on.

I think for guys in fraternities and chads maybe it is pretty good. But that’s setting the bar pretty low. I had a roommate, from east coast, was some sorta chad back at his suburban high school. We wanted to join a frat. So he did. It was a lower tier one. Deep down we both knew this, but of course we never talked about it. So, even for a chad, I’m sure deep down he knew he wasn’t getting top pussy (from my observations this is true too). To put it another way, the only guys getting top pussy at the university were guys in the top 3 frats or so… couldn’t be more than maybe a few hundred men, keeping in mind the uni was between 5000-10000 undergrads. Would you call that a black pill? You probably would… These guys had generational wealth and that itself was what got them into the frats. You had to have the right vibe too; cali bro, southern gentlemen, or hard partier/ ambitious business climber. Why am I saying this? You will never be them. Life sucks.

Quote:Quote:

… men peak later in life than women do and usually tend to get more attractive with age compared to women.

This idea which is being promulgated prominently on the forum is becoming increasingly disturbing to me for several reasons:

It is an observation of the way things are, but it is also an assumption that many carry, and hold to be a fundamental truth. Or, put another way, it may generally be true, but becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy for many men who are questioning their development. I think generally it is damaging to hold it as gospel because many young men will internalize it. In some cases, it may even impair them from living in the moment. Why should you live in the moment? Well, you’re not given tomorrow. The world is fucked up, and to tell young men that they will peak when they near thirty is depressing as well as giving false hope. Indeed, things may be much worse when they peak than they are in the present.

Sometimes I read lay reports from old time gamers on the forum, just to understand what it was like for them gaming about 8 or more years ago. What I get is that many were young, broke, but fucking grinding, maybe even in dead end jobs or living with a roommate or parents. Putting themselves out there. Approaching. Leveraging social circle. Being creative and industrious to get lays. Not status obsessed, not money obsessed, not looks obsessed. But game obsessed. That, I think is what we need to get back to. We need to be obsessed with game. If we have political or societal goals for change those need to be dealt with a different framework rather than the game framework. The bottom line is I look back at these old reports and threads, and I get the impression that the guys gaming then weren't black-pilled. I think there is a clear correlation between game failure and the black pill. I want to see that optimism and grind back....

It is also reflexive reasoning that allows men an excuse for their impaired development… “Oh, I’ll peak later, not to worry.” You have no clue when you peak. Churchill didn’t start his first term as PM until he was about 65.

My friend's father peaked likely between ages of 21-27, multiple years of slaying pussy, including a year stint in Paris fucking libertine French and foreign girls. Such a golden period for men is probably going to happen once, time and maybe location restricted. It may also be money restricted, or even impaired by employment, school status, or lack thereof. Any self-aware older man should recognize when he peaked. Likely he knows the causes (likely not wealth), but rather, location, social circle, best age for women (ie universally appealing to hottest women, maybe something like ages of 22-27), and lack of serious work commitments, as well as ability to uproot on quick notice to ride the wave and move somewhere better.

Also, I have a problem with the statement because many western women have a problem with age gap relationships. I think many guys that have been abroad forget age gaps in the west are not as permissible in liberal west as they are in other parts of the world. So you lose access to many of the prime women. Going back to college, most women date men roughly around their own age.

Sex in university is heavy on drugs and alcohol so I see nothing special at all about it. It is all about hookups. It is embarrassing and childish. Your roommate is fucking a girl drunk off her mind in his bunkbed. Or, your roommate got some ecstasy and is fucking some girl he met at a frat party after they started rolling.

I think also this is a statement, or rather rationalization, made by men who may be in a better situation than they were in younger 20’s, but like women, they fail to see completely accurately their market value, to all players in the market, rather than just some subset or niche were they have been succeeding by all accounts.

A man should settle down whenever the fuck he wants, but he should not rush into marriage if the girl is possibly a thot. A man should also be cognizant that once he settles down, there is no going back unless he gets divorced. Even less chance of going back if he has kids.

Men also peak later now, because media and society is conditioning us to do it. They are telling us that we are failures. They are telling us to go to university. They are telling us the student debt is ok. They are telling women this too, but they paint women as winners. They tell women that they peak later too. Ie mid 30’s now because of dolts like Sheryl Sandberg or that idiot Melissa Mayer, or even the New Zealand PM.

If the most fun you had was in uni or high school you’re doing something wrong. My life is fucking next level since I got out of university, completely fucking bonkers mate. If you want to have fun, you will have it. You just can’t be acting like a NPC or coming to the table with all these assumptions. The most important thing to remember is everyone else can fuck off, and you get to do what you want. As a high testosterone forum member that is red-pilled with deep analytical abilities and who has been de-programmed, you do whatever the fuck you want. Go to Colombia or something. Don’t think, Act!

Great, great post.

No amount of fun in high school or college, could compare to my first solo trip to the Greek islands. That was more than two decades ago!

In 2007, I travelled to Stockholm for the first time. The quantity of top quality women, that I saw on that trip blew my mind.

I would assume many guys on this forum didn't enjoy their school years. A lot of those same guys aren't crying over pics in their high school yearbook. They are improving themselves and exploring all the wonderful things life has to offer.

I have to disagree with peaking in high school and college UNLESS you were the star athlete in the school. That's about the only comprehensible way I can see men peaking. Women on the other hand, yea they definitely peak in those years because social game and beauty standards for women are magnified in those age groups.

I'm not gonna lie, I grew up as an outcast in high school, only lived on campus about half the time in college, and was a real introvert the second half. In other words, I grew up late. I describe high school years and early college years to a lot of people as the worst years of my life to date. I'm young though so that can definitely change lol.

Rudebwoy hit the nail on the head above. My peak year so far has definitely been right after college when I traveled to the Philippines thanks to inspiring stories from guys like 20nation and got sexual access I can't even imagine ever happening in America. The Philippines experience as a younger guy is something I describe to other Americans that haven't been there as an opportunity for college redemption. In those two months, I felt like I was able to pack in what I wish I could have in two years in college life.

There's also other guys I talk to here that mostly say their late 20's and early 30's have been their peak. But on the other hand, I have talked to older Americans that described high school or college as a peak period. In summary, it's entirely possible that those years are a peak for some people. But I have rolled with the assumption, especially with sex stats recently about 30's guys being the least sexually deprived, that the peak for men is probably somewhere in mid to late 30's. I feel like most guys get that call for marriage and kids by that stage, whereas with women it's probably about 5-10 years younger.

I say all this as a guy in my mid 20's so take it as you will.

It was worth yet another "Beer Pill" to find this sentiment by @Heuristics, which I will agree and disagree with a bit to relate something I think about sometimes:

Quote: (03-31-2019 12:42 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  

My friend's father peaked likely between ages of 21-27, multiple years of slaying pussy, including a year stint in Paris fucking libertine French and foreign girls. Such a golden period for [a man] is probably going to happen once, time and maybe location restricted. It may also be money restricted, or even impaired by employment, school status, or lack thereof. Any self-aware older man should recognize when he peaked [had a peak]. Likely he knows the causes (likely not wealth), but rather, location, social circle, best age for women (ie universally appealing to hottest women, maybe something like ages of 22-27), and lack of serious work commitments, as well as ability to uproot on quick notice to ride the wave and move somewhere better.

I'm a decade or two older, so I'd posit there are multiple peaks. Also lets add to the list of "likely causes", self-regard and positive internal references.

The earlier peak is what trains our muscle that converts knowledge into outcome through action in each next moment. You luck into a golden era situation, and finally have enough data to gain insight and test new things in your personal arsenal socially, professionally, experientially.

It is beautiful how certain ignorances gave space to experience this, like maybe allocating too much time or budget to partying, before you really internalized the importance of assets and compound gains (i.e. having a girls peak, blowing time or money on fun during a financial bottom; whereas if you knew what you know now you'd be buying cheap assets or working more). Or whatever personal trade-off.

But growth of your killer instinct, ability to think and plan longer term, can make you a powerhouse when you get around another "golden period" where items out of your control or awareness give you "deal flow".

-

@a beer, there's some fomo on the rim of your glass! Wipe it off.

Quote: (03-31-2019 08:42 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

Can you just stop, already? You have 600 something posts on the forum, and if at least 400 of them don't touch on this theme of "woe is me, I missed out on high school/college social life", I'll eat my hat. You've had guys tell you over and over again how to deal with this, but you don't want to hear it. You just want to whine and lament about the glory days you never had while you seethe in jealousy over the good times Chad and his frat brothers enjoyed. You just can't seem to accept the fact that:

LIFE
ISN'T
FAIR

As a result, you are utterly paralyzed by regret and bitterness. This mindset will literally ruin your life if you let it. It's going to make you miserable. Stop obsessing about the past and figure out how you want to life the rest of your life. Imagine that today was actually the day you were supposed to die, but that you were granted a reprieve. Everything from here on is a bonus, it's extra life. What do you want to do, how do you want to live? Do you want to be miserable or do you want to embrace this wonderful gift that's been given to you? It's really your choice. All you have is the time left in front of you, the past is gone.

Scorpion Spoke... So This Thread is



On a serious note Beer: Something is going on with you! It's line you mind is stuck in the Past... and you simply can't let it go! Every thread you're starting... is a display of you regressing... and not the opposite! If I was in your corner... I would advise you to check out therapy, or read up deep to fix these issues!

In my mid-twenties here for those of you wondering.

Loved the posts on this thread so far, even the criticism has been fair and on-point. The mindset will not make me miserable Scorpion, it already did and it did paralyze me with bitterness for a while. Despite having so much to be grateful for, I was ungrateful. Felt like being in chains and fighting a boxing match in handcuffs. It is why I even looked into the forum because I admire what the site founder and some other posters broke free from the traditional norm of marriage and kids in adulthood.

Recovery never is easy though, it takes a good deal of time….

Even though I am happier now than I was previously, there is a reason this thread was posted. I genuinely think this is a subtle but sinister tactic used by society and media to rob men of their primes and there are more guys affected by it than just me. A saying out there goes that men are made, not born, they are made through persevering past the tough tests life throws their way. What this tactic has done is robbed men of a good vision of the future unless it involves marriage and family, everything else is either an unreal fantasy or misery. This way you can get men settled into marriage and family before they hit their peak.

The tactic is used to present a woman’s prime as the prime years for everyone while a man’s prime is misery, adulthood, and what everyone is supposed to do is get married, have kids, and “grow up”.

It almost destroyed me on the inside for the longest of times but recently, I come across some hope and light at the end of the tunnel. Society and media will never mention it because they do not want men to enjoy their prime, neither will it ever broadcast the beauty of those years for an older bachelor.

Slowly, some opportunities came my way recently and glimpses of what could potentially be possible with age instead of having to choose between the marriage and kids life or social isolation, I started to see things in a clearer light than just being bogged down by what media and society were telling me. I started to meet more people who were past the age of 25 and living the life I wish more people lived, so that way I have a community of people with common goals to be a part of.

Some things that have helped me and might potentially help any guy caught in this sort of a rut.

1. Dating app culture has made life easier for higher value guys regardless of age. I have had a lot of opportunities through dating apps and I know of guys who are older and still making a killing on them.


2. Statistics out there saying the marriage age is getting pushed backwards more and less millennials are going the marriage and kids before 30 route, one of the very few things my generation is doing that gives me hope in them. 


3. Most people were not the rich frat guy or the rich sorority girl in college who could afford to get wasted every night, there just have to be plenty of people who also missed out on those years but now have resources to enjoy that life so maybe they’ll want to live it up before marriage.


4. The state of flux society is in and what it can produce in the future which does add more fun to the bachelor lifestyle after the age of 30.

Maybe life will never be as fun as it could have been in college, maybe that was the peak of all peaks, but to think that life in adulthood is either marriage and kids for everyone or social isolation if single is asinine. Sometimes, you just have to believe as unrealistic as it may seem that something is out there. Media might not talk about it, society will never speak of it or even tell you it is fantasy, but sometimes you have to believe that there is something beautiful hidden in life for men like us.

Now slowly I am starting to have a vision for the future and see it as more realistic rather than a fantasy. Once you give a man a vision and something to aspire to, that's when the beast rises. Society and media have strategically tried to destroy the vision of man and for the longest time, I let them do it to me, but not anymore.

Hopefully anyone else going through this bleak image of the future realizes this as well. I know I'll struggle with this but progress is a beautiful thing.

Quote: (03-31-2019 01:57 AM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

How about the years where men start to peak (anywhere from late 20s to our 30s)?

Considered the years to "get serious" about life; synonymous with marriage, kids, settling down, and admitting that your best days are behind you. The years of the boring adult because adults are lame, no more getting around and no more making cool friends to do fun shit with, you should have gotten it out of your system in college. Rarely is it seen as normal or something even remotely "cool" by media for a man to be single after this age and still getting around.

Outside of the rare Hugh Hefner story, the idea of a man using his wealth to fuck around with women, have a cool social life, party it up, and have his fun is so foreign to almost everyone that it may as well be a fantasy.

What on earth are you talking about? Do you live in the Bible belt? Suburban Midwest? No, you live in NYC.

Out of all the people that I've met (late 20's to mid thirties) in NYC, only a handful of them are even close to getting married, and that's only with women they met in college (so they are somewhat obliged at this point). No one has ever asked me about "settling down," including the dozens of women aged 19-31 that I've hooked up with. NYC is the wrong place for any of that nonsense.

In major cities NYC/LA/Miami, there is no shortage of men in their forties and up who play the field indefinitely and spend their money on expensive dinners, shows, and nightclubs. I see it every day, you have clearly middle aged men wining and dining younger women at exclusive spots in the city. Certainly isn't a "fantasy."

Something about paying millions of dollars for a small apartment, with shitty public schools, and surrounded by homeless people self-selects for guys that don't want to settle down.

In terms of the sheer quantity of open minded people that you meet combined with constant planned events with hot girls in their prime, college Greek life or high school will be the absolute apex of your social life.

At the same time, having a down as fuck crew of guys in their mid-late twenties making a quarter million dollars a year working from home in a world class city is an experience that can't be replicated in college.

Watching March Madness is kind of a mindfuck when you think about peaking in life. Guys like beer are probably insanely jealous of the athletes, but it's kind of sad when you think about most of their fates. For 1-4 years they are getting constant sex from 9's and 10's, taking thousands of dollars of free money from boosters, the whole world watching them play, national fame and notoriety. Once they (maybe) graduate they are just some regular schmuck with a general degree getting bitched around by a beta for a 50k job. So many of these guys end up being graduate assistants to the team or trying to continue a career in college sports, clearly never wanting to leave that life.

I will concede that the vast majority of average SMV guys from top fraternities will definitely peak in college, especially regarding women.

Quote: (03-31-2019 06:36 PM)Graft Wrote:  

Quote: (03-31-2019 01:57 AM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

How about the years where men start to peak (anywhere from late 20s to our 30s)?

Considered the years to "get serious" about life; synonymous with marriage, kids, settling down, and admitting that your best days are behind you. The years of the boring adult because adults are lame, no more getting around and no more making cool friends to do fun shit with, you should have gotten it out of your system in college. Rarely is it seen as normal or something even remotely "cool" by media for a man to be single after this age and still getting around.

Outside of the rare Hugh Hefner story, the idea of a man using his wealth to fuck around with women, have a cool social life, party it up, and have his fun is so foreign to almost everyone that it may as well be a fantasy.

What on earth are you talking about? Do you live in the Bible belt? Suburban Midwest? No, you live in NYC.

Out of all the people that I've met (late 20's to mid thirties) in NYC, only a handful of them are even close to getting married, and that's only with women they met in college (so they are somewhat obliged at this point). No one has ever asked me about "settling down," including the dozens of women aged 19-31 that I've hooked up with. NYC is the wrong place for any of that nonsense.

In major cities NYC/LA/Miami, there is no shortage of men in their forties and up who play the field indefinitely and spend their money on expensive dinners, shows, and nightclubs. I see it every day, you have clearly middle aged men wining and dining younger women at exclusive spots in the city. Certainly isn't a "fantasy."

Something about paying millions of dollars for a small apartment, with shitty public schools, and surrounded by homeless people self-selects for guys that don't want to settle down.

In terms of the sheer quantity of open minded people that you meet combined with constant planned events with hot girls in their prime, college Greek life or high school will be the absolute apex of your social life.

At the same time, having a down as fuck crew of guys in their mid-late twenties making a quarter million dollars a year working from home in a world class city is an experience that can't be replicated in college.

Watching March Madness is kind of a mindfuck when you think about peaking in life. Guys like beer are probably insanely jealous of the athletes, but it's kind of sad when you think about most of their fates. For 1-4 years they are getting constant sex from 9's and 10's, taking thousands of dollars of free money from boosters, the whole world watching them play, national fame and notoriety. Once they (maybe) graduate they are just some regular schmuck with a general degree getting bitched around by a beta for a 50k job. So many of these guys end up being graduate assistants to the team or trying to continue a career in college sports, clearly never wanting to leave that life.

I will concede that the vast majority of average SMV guys from top fraternities will definitely peak in college, especially regarding women.

You’re right graft. A lot of guys would give their left nut to be in NYC right now, young.

In terms of target rich environment it doesn’t get much better than university, of course there is an argument to be made that if you are jet-setting or casually traveling, or hitting the rave scene when you get out of college their are plenty of opportunities.

I think a lot of guys get out of college and then never try to develop their game skills, travel, or take their social circle to the next level. Far too many men I’ve known have coasted socially after college with whatever contacts they made during college. I think that’s a huge mistake personally.

Life OP wishes he had had in college



Life OP actually had



Life OP will have if he doesn't change mindset paradigm



Beer...your issues have 0 to do with "society" and 100% to do with your inner dialogue