Minor correction. I meant it wouldn't matter much if it is money/assets you had prior to marriage, not prior to divorce. The only issue is the 500k in fiat will get eaten by inflation which is why I would opt to hide the money overseas or in crypto without using banks (since that leaves a record). The other side of this is not to tell her about said fortune or where it is located. Trust before marriage does apparently work, I don't think I've seen a trust get thrown out like pre nups do.

Ask your lawyer if a prenup in your jurisdiction will protect you at all from egregious alimony claims or protect assets accumulated during the marriage. I'm skeptical it will, and this is what you most need to protect.

Premarital assets are protected in my jurisdiction without an agreement.

As for getting her to sign, a lot of guys say my family requires it or else I will be disingeriterd.

I can confirm that Trusts in Australia are no legal protection.

They made special legislation to "penetrate trusts" ie they can make ruling that ignore trust structures to make the man give the woman the money.

Men, Math and Marriage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42sI2G4m5aU&t=148s

I am a divorce attorney. Pre-nups are fine but there are typically rules about whether they are enforceable or not. Make sure to lawyer up so that you don't get screwed by these down the road, it should not take too many hours for your attorney to get it done. It shouldn't cost more $2k-$3k.

And when it comes to getting her to sign it, tell her to get an attorney as well. Try to make the process as business-like as possible.

I'm not surprised to hear that there's no air tight pre-nup or trust that exists for men. Crypto for me it is.

Quote: (01-06-2019 04:33 PM)Sherman Wrote:  

I had a prenup and it was upheld, but she also didn't contest it. There are two disadvantages: 1) it destroys the whole psychology of marriage, of you being a union and not two separate people, it really has a psychological effect that she now sees most things as yours, and 2) in order for it to be effective you have to disclose all of your finances to her up front so she knows what she is not getting. If you do a prenup, it would be helpful to have a diplomatic lawyer and come up with an arrangement that is fair, mutually negotiated, and both people are happy with it and think it is fair. I personally would explore other alternatives, like putting savings in a form that can't be reached. Also, the state laws have a big effect and you need to carefully study them. In many states, if you are married a few years and have no children, she doesn't have any right to your pre-marriage assets. You may be better off by just carefully documenting everything you own before marriage, and never commingling pre-marital funds.

This is my main concern, believe it or not, to preserve a healthy marriage and prevent it from dissolving, for my children. Protection of assets is the 2nd goal. I do not know what a "diplomatic lawyer" means though, especially when the opposite advice of a "business-like" transaction from the lawyer below is the most common advice.

Quote: (01-07-2019 09:15 AM)Captain Gh Wrote:  

Man thanks for all you guys in sharing these tips for us future Husbands! And OP... I hate to be negative... but unless your attitude does a 180... You are FUCKED!!! I can smell the stench of fear you got for your wife through my Cell! But it's not to late. Lawyer up & get these Prenup talk underway! She signs or you walk out

I'll take it in stride and can see your concern through there somewhere. I know it's easy to jump on people about this subject. It rings similar to threads like: "Guys - I found a man's sock in my girlfriend's car, it's probably just her brother's sock, right?"

Yes there's fear! I'm scared shitless of this whole marriage thing, and the potential divorce thing. But here I am, a bit older, a bit of money, desiring to have a family, and the girl I have now seems like a good one and the right fit for me, from what I can tell.
I'm also scared shitless that I've been over-influenced by the pessimism of the forum and the intelligent and learned yet highly negative and biased warnings of divorced men and lawyers, and going down this legal path with corrupt my entire marriage unalterably, all because I spent so much time worrying on RooshVForum. Not to belittle anyone here, but it's a genuine concern.

Quote: (01-07-2019 08:00 PM)rungoodinc Wrote:  

I am a divorce attorney. Pre-nups are fine but there are typically rules about whether they are enforceable or not. Make sure to lawyer up so that you don't get screwed by these down the road, it should not take too many hours for your attorney to get it done. It shouldn't cost more $2k-$3k.

And when it comes to getting her to sign it, tell her to get an attorney as well. Try to make the process as business-like as possible.

Ok, I will start with an appointment with an attorney by myself, and see what he says about the best path forward for next steps.

I still do not understand how a 2nd lawyer does anything other than cost me twice, when the prenup is properly set up, following the "typical rules" you mention, and everybody signs it. Should there be an accompanying document that states to the intent of "All parties have read and been made aware of the contents of this document, and have had all questions regarding interpretation of the contents addressed and explained by (Insert lawyer)"?

Quote: (01-06-2019 12:12 PM)christpuncher Wrote:  

But right now she does not know that I have 1/2 Mil, she thinks it's about 200k probably, I've been super vague. I don't know how/when is the best time to reveal this to her....

You already fucked up when you told her you have around 200k.

You and your fiance are opposing parties in this matter. Your lawyer cannot represent both of you, it's a conflict of interests. Having your fiance have her own representation ensures she cannot come back and claim she did not understand what she was signing, and/or gives the appearance of the entire transaction being professionally negotiated, and thus not so one sided that it could be thrown out. The whole thing would be an exercise in futility if your fiance didn't have her own lawyer.

OP-

Do you know of fellow Canadian Dave Foley's experience dealing with the Ontario court system with respect to family law?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaC-2lj6HNg

Quote: (01-08-2019 09:06 AM)LowerCaseG Wrote:  

You and your fiance are opposing parties in this matter. Your lawyer cannot represent both of you, it's a conflict of interests. Having your fiance have her own representation ensures she cannot come back and claim she did not understand what she was signing, and/or gives the appearance of the entire transaction being professionally negotiated, and thus not so one sided that it could be thrown out. The whole thing would be an exercise in futility if your fiance didn't have her own lawyer.

I stated this on page 1 as well. If you don't there's a high likelihood your pre nup is getting tossed out by the judge. What I don't understand why lawyers don't mention it to their clients. There's a lot of celebs that give the pre nup right before the wedding and think they are in the clear. Look up David Hasselhoff.

Onshore trusts can be pierced, but offshore trusts are a different matter. Much much harder to get through simply because of the logistics of other jurisdictions.

Not a foolproof plan however, end of the day you are subject to your home country's law and if they want you bad enough, they can simply say pay up or jail.

Controversial statement: End of the line, you leave your home country or be subject to its laws.

1. If a female reacts negatively to your suggestion of a prenup, don't attempt to negotiate or convince her. Next her in your mind right then and there. No modern woman in the West is unaware of what the family court system is at this point and, if she still, even having that knowledge, does not care enough about you to sign a piece of paper, the only purpose of which is to make it slightly harder for her to rob and torment you if she decides to leave, in order to put your mind somewhat at ease, what do you think she will be willing to do to you a few years down the line when she has gotten bored with and/or grown to dislike you? Can you truly feel safe and comfortable living under the same roof with and dedicating so much of yourself to such a woman? How is such a woman likely to treat you during the relationship even before the divorce (can you say weight gain and "You've got two hands, do it yourself.")? If she is one that needs to be negotiated with and convinced, she is one who will be constantly looking for any loopholes in the prenup agreement and consulting with lawyers behind your back to ensure that her eventual exit from the relationship is as profitable for her and devastating for you as possible.

2. Prenups get thrown out in court absolutely all the time. Having a prenup does not make you safe as all it takes is for you or your lawyer to forget to list one minor asset or for your fiancé/wife to claim that she "did not fully understand what she was agreeing to" (such as if you do not both have your own separate lawyers during the drafting process, the reputations of those two lawyers are different, etc.) for a judge to casually throw the entire thing out like the meaningless piece of paper that it is.

3. Marriage in the modern West has nothing to do with the joining of families or growing the kingdom of God. It is purely and exclusively a legal contract between two individuals, each with their own competing and often vastly different interests. How many other times have you heard of a legal contract being twisted and used against one of those who signed it? Do you believe that a prenup is somehow different and what does a woman's conduct prior to and during the drafting and signing process say of her character and of the peril that you put yourself in by bringing her into your house?

4. If you get a female judge, do you honestly believe that any piece of paper is going to protect you from both her and a woman who needed months of negotiation and convincing just to sign a paper to give you the illusion that she was not going to cannibalize you at the first opportunity? If you get a white knight male judge, do you honestly believed that plugged-in quisling will not treat you just as contemptuously and unjustly as the female judge, if not even more so because he is trying to virtue signal?

5. A good enough lawyer can convince a judge and jury of absolutely anything. This is why OJ Simpson was walking free until he wrote If I Did It and public opinion turned so violently against him that the legal system became irrelevant. You will be the one paying your wife's legal fees when she initiates the divorce process as well as for the mortgage on the house she is still living in while you pay rent at your sad recently divorced guy apartment unit in a complex that has logged at least one tenant suicide every month for the last decade. Once all of those expenses are added up and you have paid the hourly fees to the very best lawyer she could find, do you believe that you will have enough money left to hire equally adequate representation to protect yourself from her and from the court system which is already biased against you?


*Ask yourself: "Truly, how much do I trust this woman?"

It always strikes me as odd that guys get such a scarcity mindset when it comes to broaching the prenupt discussion with their significant other. The woman has to understand there are only 2 options, sign or no marriage. No need for compromise. If a man is too spineless to ask for a prenupt he deserves everything that's fucking coming his way

If you owned a business, something along the lines of "in case of divorce I don't want my business(es) to be involved in litigation. I have employees to whom I'm responsible."

Since apparently you don't own a business,think of something similar (don't want to be forced to sell stocks at the wrong time, have relatives/parents who may need money and to whom I'm responsible) or even don't want to pay a ton of money to lawyers.

I wouldn't focus too much on how you present it, focus more on her reaction. Gold diggers will have a ready made emotionally manipulative reason to avoid doing it.

Quote: (01-08-2019 08:01 AM)christpuncher Wrote:  

I still do not understand how a 2nd lawyer does anything other than cost me twice, when the prenup is properly set up, following the "typical rules" you mention, and everybody signs it. Should there be an accompanying document that states to the intent of "All parties have read and been made aware of the contents of this document, and have had all questions regarding interpretation of the contents addressed and explained by (Insert lawyer)"?

First, it is a clear legal principle that any ambiguity in the contract is resolved against of the party that wrote the contract. Even if unambiguous there is the concept that a contract which is presented as "take it or leave it" and not negotiated can be so biased/unfair asto be against public policy. This happens in cases where a little consumer is fighting a big company.

Yes it will cost more for her to have her own lawyer. But the cost is simply insurance,like health insurance, fire insurance, etc. If you have no assets to protect,there is little point in getting insurance. If you have assets to protect you're taking a huge risk.

Hi. I never did a prenup but we did a post nupt. A lawyer in NY isn't needed but I used one. All you gotta do is pay like 150 dollars on one of those online sites. It was for the formality so it can be put down that you both got legal advice. I added a few inserts that we both signed that declared in front of notary that we both understood everything. Her lawyer and mine both said it was legal and if she decides to challenge it she bears ALL legal costs including mine if she loses. In the end the main goal is to buy time. In case of a fight she would have to use her own money , which she doesn't have to fight it and that would tie up months where I could move cash overseas. I should add that WE wrote it together. In fact she typed it! The more she is involved in the process the more tight it is!

Another point is CONSIDERATION. For a contract to be binding thy look that both sides got something.So I agreed that she would get HALF of the marital asset in exchange NO alimony. I am in an equitable state so the marital property isn't divided 50/50 all the time and a few points more goes to the one who saved /made the money. In addition some of the marital funds included my separate money which can be proven with forensic accountant so I gave up claims. Now the other 80% of my assets are my separate property and isn't subject to court division but it was still stated in the contract.She was eager to sign it since she realized that I can at anytime convert my cash assets from producing income(bank cds) to other assets producing capital gains which isn't calculated for support. In other words I could "spen my money" after the divorce and come back to court to readjust based on my new income level. Since my assets aren't a business the court can't accuse me of lowering my income since my cash assets are mine to spend.
Point I am making is do a lot of research how your state view these documents and then write one and try to bullet proof it as much as possible. That is your only insurance.

"I am a divorce attorney. Pre-nups are fine but there are typically rules about whether they are enforceable or not. Make sure to lawyer up so that you don't get screwed by these down the road, it should not take too many hours for your attorney to get it done. It shouldn't cost more $2k-$3k."

They cost way less to make. They cost more when it is more complicated and there are businesses and children involved but one can be made for a few hundred and one can save costs by writing it oneself and just having lawyers go though it. Funny thing is my lawyer mentioned that some judges like it more professionally written but when I told him that using my "plain language" was better since English not 1st language of my wife HE agreed that is was better we wrote it together.
The main thing is that the agreement is UNDERSTOOD by both, that IT IS LEGAL by state standards and that there is consideration and no argument for being under duress. It doesn't have to be fair as in even Steven , just fair that everyone gains something. But I had a post nupt , my understanding is that they are more easy to enforce, if one lucky enough to get spouse to do one since the BLACKMAIL argument is not there. Pre nupts have the "he told me to do it or else argument". Often they will say they did it under duress. Although less of an argument in post nupts. I even had both of us sign sworn statement that we weren't under duress lol.

Remember, even a garbage agreement can buy YOU a lot of time if you are moving assets.

Also about the going to jail part. I want to bring something up. You protect your assets by putting them overseas. It doesn't have to be a fagazi type offshore bank. Unlike child support , there REALLY isn't much recourse to get assets overseas as long as you report it. If you don't report it on your taxes the lawyers can use fraud as a way to get foreign gov't to seize assets. You avoid this by NOT hiding it but just parking it. But just move out of state if you want to remain in USA. Here's the thing, most midsize cities and large cities don't come after you for a bench warrant for contempt. The way they get you is when you are pulled over and ID is run the warrant comes up. To get a civil warrant follow you into another state your spouse actually would need to find you and actually file the court order in the other state. But police warrant squads in any large US city doesn't bother. In the event that they DO pick you up and decide to hold you, MOST states won't send you over and the law enforcement of your original state most likely won't send anyone..UNLESS it is a neighbor state(NY to NJ for example). But if they don't respond right away you can probably get out on habeas corpus within 24/48 hrs.Realize the shit I am telling you MOST lawyers will NOT tell you since they make their livelihood based on YOU following the law but ONCE you deviate they are a bit loss. In addition legally they can't entertain you breaking the law.
Funny thing is being a retired cop I don't even have to worry since no law enforcement in the country will run my license. They just wave me off, have a nice day, blah, blah , blah. That being said many depts will arrest if a bench warrant comes up. We don't have a choice. I bet I arrested deadbeat dads,etc many times without knowing.

Lots of good responses ITT.

I see this as a no-win situation unfortunately. You are laying the groundwork for marriage dissolution by giving the prenup ultimatum. If she truly loves you, there is no way that this can't be a very painful revelation to her. It doesn't matter if it's logical from the man's point of view, it matters how it makes her feel, this is key to communicating with a woman.

If you don't get a pre-nup, you're going to spin your wheels about what could happen, and how stupid you were for not listening to strangers on the internet. This will eat you up, or you wouldn't have made this thread.

You can hide assets, but you will be lying to your future wife. This is also laying the groundwork for more lying. People who lie, eventually get lied to. It's the laws of attraction at work within our relationships.

Only you can decide what you are willing to live with.

Maybe you need to do some soul-searching about why you wanted to get married in the first place, and what marriage means to you. Maybe talk to some older men that you respect and trust, or even a minister or a man of the cloth if that's your thing. Most guys here are pumping and dumping and simply can't empathize with a man who is inside of a marriage. There is more at issue here than just your assets I suspect, and it is impossible to overstate the fragility of trust within a relationship.

Doing what is a smart move from the red-pill perspective and what will ultimately be the best for your marriage may be worlds apart.

Quote:Quote:

You can hide assets, but you will be lying to your future wife. This is also laying the groundwork for more lying. People who lie, eventually get lied to. It's the laws of attraction at work within our relationships.

Well if he is trying to hide assets before he gets married one has to wonder why. No state counts pre marital assets as marital after marriage so a moot thing to do. Hiding assets isn't good to do if one is USA citizen. Keeping Uncle Sam happy will keep him happy. As long as uncle Sam is paid he will keep out of it and it will be a local court level issue. As mentioned, it isn't hard to keep assets away from local jurisdictions. Since war on terrorism they have asset freeze agreements internationally that family lawyers can trigger but if NO fraud involved they can't.

If he has a premarital business it can be different because the income it produces can be considered marital. That is why rich people want pre nupts. They often will exchange "taking care" of the ex spouse for not claiming business assets as marital. The shit that you see in movies where the spouse is getting part of the family fortune is fiction for TV. As far as I know NO state in the union can squeeze out family wealth. Again, it is in reality an exchange for letting go of business assets.

Pre Nups that do work...

I was raised by a Sicilian American Korean War Veteran who's uncles were all WWII Combat Veterans. Think an entire family of Michael Corleone's war heroes. So I was immersed in the Sicilian American culture. It is the Ultimate Red Pill... they always knew the true nature of women and so old School Sicilians had a policy that any man that would sleep with or even attempt to seduce their wives would have their genitalia cut off and stuffed down their throats with a bullet to the head. That's how the community would know the nature of their crime when and if their bodies were found.

The wives are also deeply aware of the concept of a Sicilian divorce - even if the husband takes a mistress as his wife grows old and her vagina dries up and sex for her is painful... she will never be divorced if she gave him sons. The only way out of a Sicilian Marriage is via a pine box a.k.a. burial. The concept of divorce is non-existent and any winey-divorced neighbor gold diggers and lazy wined up afternoons in my home would never be tolerated - idle coonts being the workshop of Satan.

For a woman to feel safe ... she needs to believe you will kill to protect her.

For a woman to feel loved ... she needs to believe you will kill any man or these days woman who tries to take her from you.

To ensure a woman's loyalty and blunt her natural hypergamy she must believe you will kill her if she tries to destroy you, your business or your family with her and that includes any outsiders - divorce attorney or antagonistic gold digging and jealous neighbors. Any negative vortex she might allow into the family will NOT be tolerated.

Of course, these are harsh sometimes extra-judicial realities and often counter to the man-hating misandry of modern family and divorce courts.

You have to ease the modern woman who was immersed in third wave SJW feminism her entire life into these Ultra-Red Pill realities slowly and from a position of love and caring.

Consider this the care and feeding and training of the modern wife another reason you have to take one young enough to train and from a culture where loyalty is as important as love.

When I start to think of a female as possible wife material - I take them to a firing range and teach them how to fire my various sidearms safely and accurately for her protection. This also has a hidden agenda aspect of showing her how accurate, lethal and powerful my marksmanship and military acquired deadly arts skills are including my fearless and expert willingness to use them.

Then when the time comes I think she has been adequately trained and ready I follow all pre-nup advice herein focusing on my priorities and the benefits to her to preserve the future marriage with independent counsel for her.

This is a test of the attitude she brings to a prospective marriage.

With a well-formed and phased in training program the concept of going to a divorce lawyer to divorce rape you will never enter her mind - any gold digging like behavior, feminist SJW inspired temper tantrums, attacking you as stingy or even the slightest withdrawal of affections and enthusiastic sex is sufficient to next her to protect you from heartbreak, betrayal and financial ruin and extrajudicial consequences.

Lastly, I do have crypto assets in offshore exchange accounts that no one knows about ...

Of course, as Bitcoin completes its Hyperwave target back to $1K I will then accumulate some serious bug out amounts onto a hardware wallet after proper scrubbing and tumbling basically buying Monero with BTC in an offshore exchange and transferring the monero to another exchange and buying new different BTC and then splitting the BTC into both BTC and other reliable coins like litecoin, Stellar, Ripple, etc., and keeping half the BTC and other coins on proven Trezor or Nano Ledger or Blue hardware wallets with proper paper wallet backups. (Search Tyler Jenks BTC Hyperwave videos and projections).

Quote: (01-07-2019 08:00 PM)rungoodinc Wrote:  

I am a divorce attorney. Pre-nups are fine but there are typically rules about whether they are enforceable or not.

Someone who makes money selling pre-nups and then makes money getting them overturned is not really someone we are going to listen to for advice on the matter, is it?

In Australia they are worthless, I'd hate to see a brother think he is safe, when he is not.

Prenups aren’t worth shit in certain countries these days, and laws change over time. You should get it anyway, but prepare for the worse. Not suggesting you should prepare to wash your funds if it comes down to it.

Not Dead Yet, That's why he's got money in the bank unlike 40% of Americans. Why spend the money if you don't need to, as long as it produces the same outcome.

Quote: (01-08-2019 02:15 PM)jimukr75 Wrote:  

To get a civil warrant follow you into another state your spouse actually would need to find you and actually file the court order in the other state. But police warrant squads in any large US city doesn't bother. In the event that they DO pick you up and decide to hold you, MOST states won't send you over and the law enforcement of your original state most likely won't send anyone..UNLESS it is a neighbor state(NY to NJ for example).

Hypothetical scenarios: If there is a bench warrant issued in NY and I have moved to CA assuming the following scenarios what happens?
1)NY does not know where I am. I get pulled over in CA.
2)NY knows and I get pulled over. CA then releases me on habeas corpus. What's the chance NY still sends someone?

Quote: (01-06-2019 09:51 AM)Windom Earle Wrote:  

It’s disturbing that you’d have $500k sitting in a bank account (if that is the case) rather than investing it in an appropriately diversified portfolio.

I’d work on that first.

The most disturbing thing is his blasphemous username. I think it's time for a stonin'.