At some level, I am aware that having short term relations is probably not benefiting women's long term interests because it hurts their ability to pair bond and find good lasting long term relationships. Also, by participating in these short term relations, I am encouraging women to seek out such encounters by making myself available as an option for them and "rewarding" such women for this behavior but am also indirectly showing all other women that are watching that this is the way of men or that they should be considering short term relations as well.

On the other hand, I did not create the following system. It is one that I was born into and have limited control over the tendencies of men and women. Western society has more recently promoted a nihilistic approach to relationships that favors short term relations and this has been supported by women themselves that have opted for making decisions for the short term rather than having a long term perspective.

As men who are thinking not just about the here and now but about the future and what is best for them and their societies, how do you good gents think on these issues? What is your philosophy in these areas?

Hopefully those with more experience and clout will weigh in, this is something I’m struggling with as well.

Indiscriminate pick-up is a part of the problem. It takes two to tango, you know? On the other hand, casual sex isn’t like Santa Claus* - just because you don’t believe in it doesn’t mean it’s not happening every minute of the day. That is to say, whether or not you Enjoy the Decline we’re still circling the drain.

It comes down to what You want and the compromises you’re willing to make.

*Edit: Except in my case - it only comes round once a year /rimshot

Retired slut maker here. Sorry for ruining it for the rest of you boys, but girls simply can't help but drop their panties after taking one look at me. It's a tough job to be God's gift to women but hey, someone's got to do it.

The person who is most at fault if a girl becomes a slut is her father. Either because he is absent for whatever reason, or because he didn't give the correct balance of affectionate love and tough discipline.


Up until 50 years ago, a girl's father was the biggest cockblocker to any man seeing his daughter.

Women become sluts when they grow up with no father. Or if the father is completely snowed and provides zero guidance.

Edit if you are getting girls pregnant and then bailing then you are creating sluts

I don't remember which member got this SIG in their signature... but if women have the right to throw their vaginas around like Joe Montana... then you absolutely... wholeheartedly have the right to be Jerry Rice my friend! And piece of advice: since you're already thinking of this, i either recommend that you look for a good LTR... or if you're still in that accumulate # line of thinking... then simply take breaks between Mini-LTR. One Night Stand & First Date Bang til your conscience gets KO'd ==> then you'll have no choice but to be LTR minded.

EDIT: For all the newbies... how do we define sluts? In my mind, this word has lost it's meaning, and pretty much doesn't exist anymore because the Standard is "Slut" Nowadays! I mean the best women out there are on Tinder & dating left & right & chill with the boys drinking beer at the Bar! And these are the best women coming from uni with 2 parents household!

It's important to not act like only ratchet sluts have 20-30 Bangs when 15 year old living in the best part of town are wearing short dresses and Huggs Boots with Leggins while the whole booty's showing! Is she really not gonna out & chill when she's 18,19,20? I think we all know the answer. Granted single parent household create the biggest sluts make no mistake about it... but to put a chick who grew up in a 2 parent household on any type of pedestal is ludicrous in our times. In my view, that's the biggest manosphere White Horse which gets a lot of men in trouble!

Quote: (01-06-2019 11:44 AM)eradicator Wrote:  

Women become sluts when they grow up with no father. Or if the father is completely snowed and provides zero guidance.

Edit if you are getting girls pregnant and then bailing then you are creating sluts

Thank you. It is also true that we have a higher incidence of divorces where the father is physically removed by the state from the daughter's life. I believe this is due to the rise of woman's rights and them making the choice to permit divorces more easily.

Certainly sometimes a divorce is the fault of the man who cheated on his wife. But other times it could well be that the woman strayed or woke up one day and wanted a different life. So the individual man may not have as much control over this as you would suggest. Of course, you could say that men as a monolith group could move to reduce the power of the state in guarding women from the responsibility of their choices Or they could push for changes in laws and society that encourage men and women to stay together and for men to be a responsible figure for helping form their daughters' sexual norms.

Quote: (01-06-2019 11:52 AM)Captain Gh Wrote:  

I don't remember which member got this SIG in their signature... but if women have the right to throw their vaginas around like Joe Montana... then you absolutely... wholeheartedly have the right to be Jerry Rice my friend! And piece of advice: since you're already thinking of this, i either recommend that you look for a good LTR... or if you're still in that accumulate # line of thinking... then simply take breaks between Mini-LTR. One Night Stand & First Date Bang til your conscience gets KO'd ==> then you'll have no choice but to be LTR minded.

Practical advice.

1. Women are adults every bit as much as men are. They make grown up decisions just as we do. In all but cases involving genuine criminality, women are solely responsible for any and all sex that happens in the modern secular world. Women are the gatekeepers of sexuality and they alone decide whether or not sex happens. If she refuses you, there is nothing you can legally do to make sex happen with her. Even hookers must consent.

2. In the same way that only an individual man can be truly held responsible for choosing to commit a murder or rob a bank, only an individual woman can be truly held responsible for the sex that she chooses to have. Perhaps she came from such and such a background or did not have a dad but, ultimately she has agency in the same way that a man coming from the same situation does and his sad story will certainly not prevent the judge from holding him solely responsible for the choices he has made.

3. There is no such thing as modern secular traditionalism. Modern secular girls are already going to do it so they might as well do it with you.

Ask an incel if girls who don't already have it in them will choose to bang him or if he can convince a girl who already rejected him. A girl who really wants to preserve her virginity until marriage and live a traditional lifestyle as a housewife and homemaker will do that and she will not give it up to any guy until she is married. Even the most skilled gamer cannot crack a girl who has committed herself to those principles because all the game in the world will not change a sincere "no" into a "yes" (LMR is not sincere but is only part of the game - if it were a sincere refusal, you'd know). Game is just that, playing the game that women like to enjoy before doing what they have already decided that they are going to do (bang a man they are not married to).

Women who are willing to have non-marital sex have already decided in the first 5-10 seconds of seeing you whether they would bang you or not (just like men do, though we judge different features) and the rest is just playing the game that gets you to where she has already decided she will allow you to go. For the girls who are truly committed to trad principles, game is largely irrelevant in terms of getting non-marital sex as they decided long before they ever saw you that you were not getting in without marrying them and that decision was almost invariably based on religious conviction, not fleeting emotion and arousal.

Also, is women were truly committed to trad principles, then why are up to 90% of divorces initiated by women (75% is only the women without the male and 15-20% is "mutual" which totally doesn't mean that the male was coerced in any way - that never happens)? Traditionalism went away in the West with the introduction of hormonal birth control and the entrance en masse of women into the workplace. When you say "we are making women worse," you are operating on logic that might have been relevant 300 years ago when women and men were both basically slaves to nature, had strong religious convictions, and married before they were 18 but that way of thinking only puts you at a disadvantage now because, whether you yourself are trad or not, a woman is most likely not going to be a traditional virgin by the time she crosses your path and, if she is, you won't be able to crack her.

To answer your question: We are making the most of a bad situation. In the modern West, where women have every right to refuse at any point, it is truly women who, in all cases except those involving genuine criminality, are the deciders of whether or not sex happens. They are already going to give it up, if not to you then to someone else, so you might as well get your piece. Just make sure not to get spermjacked, stay healthy, and stay safe.

Look back throughout history. When times are good women are sluts, when times are bad women are either whores or they get with a guy who can provide for them. Times are good now. There are no reasons besides personal reasons for a woman to get married and have a family right after high school. So women can now sleep around.

You're not making her a slut, you're simply accelerating the evolution.


The real problem is the fact that men expect women to have willpower. Men expect women to think like us and think logically. We look at women being sluts as bad things because it completely kills progress. Whereas a successful player is the stuff of much talk and practice. A female player is shammed because it means she has poor choices.

Quote: (01-06-2019 12:00 PM)Waqqle Wrote:  

Ask an incel if girls who don't already have it in them will choose to bang him or if he can convince a girl who already rejected him. A girl who really wants to preserve her virginity until marriage and live a traditional lifestyle as a housewife and homemaker will do that and she will not give it up to any guy until she is married. Even the most skilled gamer cannot crack a girl who has committed herself to those principles because all the game in the world will not change a sincere "no" into a "yes" (LMR is not sincere but is only part of the game - if it were a sincere refusal, you'd know). Game is just that, playing the game that women like to enjoy before doing what they have already decided that they are going to do (bang a man they are not married to).

Women who are willing to have non-marital sex have already decided in the first 5-10 seconds of seeing you whether they would bang you or not (just like men do, though we judge different features) and the rest is just playing the game that gets you to where she has already decided she will allow you to go. For the girls who are truly committed to trad principles, game is largely irrelevant in terms of getting non-marital sex as they decided long before they ever saw you that you were not getting in without marrying them.

Also, is women were truly committed to trad principles, then why are up to 90% of divorces initiated by women (75% is only the women without the male and 15-20% is "mutual" which totally doesn't mean that the male was coerced in any way - that never happens)? Traditionalism went away in the West with the introduction of hormonal birth control and the entrance en masse of women into the workplace. When you say "we are making women worse," you are operating on logic that might have been relevant 300 years ago when women and men were both basically slaves to nature, had strong religious convictions, and married before they were 18 but that way of thinking only puts you at a disadvantage now because, whether you yourself are trad or not, a woman is most likely not going to be a traditional virgin by the time she crosses your path and, if she is, you won't be able to crack her.

To answer your question: We are making the most of a bad situation. In the modern West, where women have every right to refuse at any point, it is truly women who, in all cases except those involving genuine criminality, are the deciders of whether or not sex happens. They are already going to give it up, if not to you then to someone else, so you might as well get your piece. Just make sure not to get spermjacked, stay healthy, and stay safe.

1. There is no such thing as secular traditionalism. Secular girls are already going to do it so they might as well do it with you.

2. Women are adults every bit as much as men are and even mature faster, biologically speaking. They make grown up decisions just as we do and they can choose at any point to say "no." In all but cases involving genuine criminality, women are 100% responsible for any and all sex that happens in the modern secular world.

Thank you for your thoughts. You certainly have laid out your argument well. And yet, what if men as a collective group decided not to participate in these short term relations and only sought out long term relations with women who had the right stuff? Basically, ignoring the women who were promoting short term decisions. Would we not then see a move back towards traditionalism? Is the problem that men are too weak to abstain from short term relations or that they would be a terrible judge in finding women who could be and remain traditional wives?

We don't make sluts, they fail to pass our slut tests so we bang them.

Quote: (01-06-2019 11:43 AM)Caduceus Wrote:  

The person who is most at fault if a girl becomes a slut is her father. Either because he is absent for whatever reason, or because he didn't give the correct balance of affectionate love and tough discipline.


Up until 50 years ago, a girl's father was the biggest cockblocker to any man seeing his daughter.

What about when the mother chooses to divorce the dad and use the court system to prevent him from getting within 100 meters of his daughter? What about when the mom criticizes, belittles, and undermines the dad in front of the daughter, thus diminishing her sense of his authority over her?

I hardly ever saw or interacted with either of my parents growing up but I could never use that as an excuse for choosing to commit a crime or, at least, I would still be held accountable by society and the legal system. In the same way, women are ultimately accountable for the choices they make as adults. Some of us are lucky enough to be set up better from the outset in such a way as to make the right choice easier but we all ultimately make a choice.

Quote: (01-06-2019 12:33 PM)Donfitz007 Wrote:  

Look back throughout history. When times are good women are sluts, when times are bad women are either whores or they get with a guy who can provide for them. Times are good now. There are no reasons besides personal reasons for a woman to get married and have a family right after high school. So women can now sleep around.

You're not making her a slut, you're simply accelerating the evolution.

Interesting post. When you say "you're simply accelerating the evolution," are you saying that having the short term relations with its various problems will lead to bad times and thus women will adjust back to trad lifestyles and whorish lifestyles?

I definitely think there is a pendulum effect that occurs throughout history where you see waves of traditionalism and waves of nihilism. I also think that religion also is big during these waves of traditionalism and wanes during nihilistic times. I agree that we are currently living in nihilistic times but have felt we are about to see a traditionalist movement in the West because people are growing weary of a life without purpose and feel like bad times are on the horizon. Perhaps you are right that a collapse in the economy may well be the thing that causes the pendulum to swing strongly back towards traditionalism.

Quote: (01-06-2019 12:35 PM)TIOT12 Wrote:  

Thank you for your thoughts. You certainly have laid out your argument well. And yet, what if men as a collective group decided not to participate in these short term relations and only sought out long term relations with women who had the right stuff? Basically, ignoring the women who were promoting short term decisions. Would we not then see a move back towards traditionalism? Is the problem that men are too weak to abstain from short term relations or that they would be a terrible judge in finding women who could be and remain traditional wives?

What you are describing will only ever be realistically possible within a very culturally and religiously homogeneous society in which both men and women are held accountable and shamed for engaging in non-marital sexual activity (ie: everyone has, understands, and is held by all other members to the same behavioral standard). Men as a whole have never been a collective and neither have women. We have, throughout history, belonged to various tribes, clans, and religious groups which set and enforced a collective standard on the individuals who chose to be a part of those groups as well as nations and empires which imposed standards on us from outside through force and threat of force such as in Iran, the Papal States, etc.

We in the modern world are not generally part of any such groups in that traditional historical sense and we also have myriad forms of birth control, which historical societies did not. We are atomized, fragmented, and psychologically frayed by postmodern secular philosophy to the point where the only way to realistically revive the sort of collective standard you are describing would be to essentially create a reclusive cult and live away and separate from the modern world, effectively creating your own time capsule within the territory of a larger nation or empire within which you are a weak and tiny minority and to whom you must pay tax and be beholden to. You could become Hassidic or Amish as this is basically what they do. If you wish to join them and live by their standards, I will not mock you for doing so. You could also attempt to join a small strict religious sect which already exists but keeps to itself, often because they do not fit into the larger culture of the country where they live, so the women are known by everyone and heavily shamed if they mingle with outsiders such as the Ahmadiyya, Jains, Mandaeans, Iglesia ni Cristo, etc.

Quote: (01-06-2019 12:40 PM)TIOT12 Wrote:  

Interesting post. When you say "you're simply accelerating the evolution," are you saying that having the short term relations with its various problems will lead to bad times and thus women will adjust back to trad lifestyles and whorish lifestyles?

I definitely think there is a pendulum effect that occurs throughout history where you see waves of traditionalism and waves of nihilism. I also think that religion also is big during these waves of traditionalism and wanes during nihilistic times. I agree that we are currently living in nihilistic times but have felt we are about to see a traditionalist movement in the West because people are growing weary of a life without purpose and feel like bad times are on the horizon. Perhaps you are right that a collapse in the economy may well be the thing that causes the pendulum to swing strongly back towards traditionalism.

Here's the thing, the teens of the 90's thought the same way, they thought the next generation would be more traditional and bring back good values and you see how millennials are. Now millennials thought the same thing about Gen z'ers and they're proving to be even worse. Tinder is making it even harder for girls 18-30 to want to be traditional. A better "husband" is only a swipe away. Its a drug that appeals to women's desire for attention.

Hard times come from TRUE economic collapse OR war. Now I too have this unsettling feeling a true war is on the horizon. Women in first world countries feel safe. Men need fulfillment, women need security. The government help women feel secure and safe because if they want they can simply get on welfare or go to a shelter or get picked up by some man willing to help her live. Women have unlimited choices and being a whore/stripper is the last one.

LTR or STR isn't the problem, society is the problem. We aren't the problem society is the problem.

Quote: (01-06-2019 01:07 PM)Donfitz007 Wrote:  

Here's the thing, the teens of the 90's thought the same way, they thought the next generation would be more traditional and bring back good values and you see how millennials are. Now millennials thought the same thing about Gen z'ers and they're proving to be even worse. Tinder is making it even harder for girls 18-30 to want to be traditional. A better "husband" is only a swipe away. Its a drug that appeals to women's desire for attention.

Hard times come from TRUE economic collapse OR war. Now I too have this unsettling feeling a true war is on the horizon. Women in first world countries feel safe. Men need fulfillment, women need security. The government help women feel secure and safe because if they want they can simply get on welfare or go to a shelter or get picked up by some man willing to help her live. Women have unlimited choices and being a whore/stripper is the last one.

LTR or STR isn't the problem, society is the problem. We aren't the problem society is the problem.

Thanks again. However, I was under the impression that tinder is now on the decline because men see less value in it and starting not to play. Certainly it is a validation tool for women but not a serious relationship tool for them as they chase the top 15% of guys (according to another thread here) and those guys will only have relations with a small group of those women. It would seem under this circumstance that the validation benefits for women would be declining.

I also have read a few articles stating that the newest generation is more conservative or traditional than past generations in part because of all the problems of a nihilistic culture and having more difficulty finding work and so on. Maybe this varies on where you are in the West or the percentages just still aren't at a tipping point.

Saying that "Gen Z is more conservative than Millennials," doesn't mean that Gen Z is making any significant progress toward becoming the next Greatest Generation. It's like saying that Castro was less of a strict Communist than Stalin. While possibly correct, you still can't own property either way.

Girls are repulsed and creeped out when you think theyre special. Only obnoxious dickhead behavior works. If you go in wanting to date her you will get rejected. They see it as weakness and low value.

You cant make a girl like you. So many christians paint over this telling you to get married young like thats even an option. I dont feel remotely responsible or "guilty" for promiscuity given how girls are behaving.

Watch both of these if you believe that way

Realize these are Gen Z'ers all around 18-23











Of course this may be biased but even in my own life, I've noticed these EXACT same results. All my friends have been cheated on and all the girls I've known have either cheated or thought about it.

Tinder is dying because of tinder not because of a shift in views, tinder has become P2P and just like P2P in video games, people HATE THAT. Tinder is getting harder and harder for guys and guys are becoming Incels not super smoother PUA's.

They're more conservative because their memes are edgier and because they aren't as Liberal as before. They're still full of SJW's and stupid feminist.

If you ain't taking that pussy somebody else will!

Learned that before I ever heard of game, with every girl I had a crush on but was "nice" and "respectful" to.

Quote: (01-06-2019 01:42 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  

Girls are repulsed and creeped out when you think theyre special. Only obnoxious dickhead behavior works. If you go in wanting to date her you will get rejected. They see it as weakness and low value.

You can't make absolute statements like this. Certainly, some women are this way but others are not. For example, it has been said many times in this forum that dickhead behavior doesn't work well in Argentina. Instead, many of them want to feel special and validated based on their looks. Even in the US or UK, not all women will want dickhead behavior. I know stories where some US women basically fell in love with a guy who straight out said that he wants to marry them. This isn't to say your advice isn't reasonable. It is just that some women will not see it as weakness and low value and see it in a very different and positive light.

Quote: (01-06-2019 01:42 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  

You cant make a girl like you. So many christians paint over this telling you to get married young like thats even an option. I dont feel remotely responsible or "guilty" for promiscuity given how girls are behaving.

True but we believe we have influence over this. Hence, why we use game, workout, eat right, wear nice clothes or whatever. Christians also think this but they are more value oriented. If they focus their time on being a man of integrity, tells the truth, is friendly, a good husband, etc., that these values will be appreciated by the type of traditional women that they are looking to marry. It just so happens we live in a nihilistic period where more women at least initially are opting for players instead of long term partners. But at a different point in time, it has been and could well be that the players are the odd man out.

This all being said, I understand your perspective as you see yourself as a mirror that is reflecting back what you are receiving or is being rewarded. I have felt the same way at times.

I don’t have anything to contribute that hasn’t been said already, but I’ll say that I think this is a great topic and there are a lot of great responses. Another reason why I’m a big fan of this forum

They were already sluts at least in the west. Age 16 - Age 30 ~ that's 52 weeks x 14 years = 728 weeks. It would be super easy for a woman to bang a new guy every week or biweekly. I'm not counting things like Spring Breaks or European vacations where a lot of guys will attest women will bang multiple guys (sometimes multiple on the same day).

So easily the typical millennial woman will probably have banged at least 100 guys by age 30 unless they were in serial LTRs the entire time (sure there's some woman like that but I knew plenty who were suspiciously single the entire time).

Depends on the individual.

I look at this thing through the lens of the "good girls", "freaks" and "hos" classification from Player Supreme, summarized here: http://puarticles.blogspot.com/2008/01/g...reaks.html

My advice for people is not to fuck around on the "good girl" types who dream of having kids and a family some day. If you do that you risk fucking them up mentally and creating a slut.


When you're looking to fuck around find the freaks. They're not hard to find and as long as you convey that you're a good, kinky fuck they'll be all over you.


Stick