On the show Mad Men, there's an ongoing storyline where Pete Campbell's wife can't conceive. Pete does a sperm test and is 100% ready to go, but his wife isn't so lucky.

His wife suggests they adopt a baby. Pete thinks adoption is for cucks (I agree), and drama ensues. Tensions get so high that Pete throws a chicken off his balcony:




What would you do if this happened to you? It seems to me there are only a few options.

-Divorce
-Adoption
-IVF
-Impregnate another woman

For preventative measures, fertility testing is relatively affordable with the right insurance.

I have thought about this. I would get another woman pregnant. That way, I can still pass on my own offspring. Adopting is something I am fine with other people doing, as it provides a home for a child who otherwise probably would not have one, however, it is not something I would do personally.

In the old codes of most religions, a "barren" wife gave the man grounds to get a mistress, or a second wife along side the first, or if the wife had a unwed sister, you could get the sister pregnant.

However, you could not divorce or abandon the barren wife unless she lied about being a virgin.

Could be the #1 reason to get her pregnant before marrying her is possibile infertility.

2nd Reason is if she divorces you, takes a chunk of your money, and doesn't even do the hard work of getting pregnant and delivering some kids.

3rd reason is to better protect your finances.

I also think in ancient times in some cultures, if the sister of the barren wife was already married with children of her own, she could still "volunteer" to get pregnant with her brother in law if her husband consented. After the birth the child would be adopted by the barren sister and raised as if her own.

I dont know how widespread this practice was though as it entails a man consenting to being cucked. (Although for a good cause).

Most likely it was done in secret with only the 4 of them knowing, so everyone involved remained publicly "respectable".

Great question. This is a situation where what somebody says they would do and what they would actually do will often vary dramatically.

Thinking about it now, I would try to find another woman with whom to have a child, whether coming to a compromise with the wife (having a child w/another woman and having her raise it), or ending the marriage outright. I want my own children and its hard to imagine living a life without having kids.

In reality, this would be one of the most painful things one can experience besides death. Assuming my wife and I have been dating/married for some time, we obviously love each other. She would be absolutely devastated to find out that she can't have children, and unlike me, she doesn't have the option to have kids with somebody else. To look her in the face and tell her that I'm ending it (because of something not even remotely her fault)... I don't know if I could do that.

I would be really interested to hear if anybody has faced this situation, and what they chose to do. I think that would speak louder than a theoretical discussion.

I see no reason to dump your wife for that reason.

I would just work my mojo to convince her I need to impregnate a beautiful girl since we need a baby with good genes.

IVF

It works but isn’t cheap. It does have a eugenic component to it that is positive: embryos are genetically screened. Weak embryos generally don’t survive the process.

As a result, the chances of getting a weak, genetically damaged child is very low (but not zero)

Quote: (01-05-2019 10:23 AM)Caduceus Wrote:  

In the old codes of most religions, a "barren" wife gave the man grounds to get a mistress, or a second wife along side the first, or if the wife had a unwed sister, you could get the sister pregnant.

However, you could not divorce or abandon the barren wife unless she lied about being a virgin.

This is whole question is pretty much they why of concubines existing in healthy traditional societies. This and the wife or wives needing a social outlet. This institution survives enshrined into law in civilized countries like Uruguay. The best documented examples of these systems in practice can be found with the Ottomans and the areas they controlled.

Quote: (01-05-2019 10:40 AM)Caduceus Wrote:  

I also think in ancient times in some cultures, if the sister of the barren wife was already married with children of her own, she could still "volunteer" to get pregnant with her brother in law if her husband consented. After the birth the child would be adopted by the barren sister and raised as if her own.

I dont know how widespread this practice was though as it entails a man consenting to being cucked. (Although for a good cause).

Most likely it was done in secret with only the 4 of them knowing, so everyone involved remained publicly "respectable".

From my understanding this wasn't a cucking of any sort, but rather a loan. The brother would loan a fertile, preferably with a history of successful breedings, wife or concubine to the less fortunate brother's household. Generally these arrangements would be less necessary among successful men with the means to bring multiple women into their households. Lending a woman for breeding would involve a marginal brother who did manage to acquire a woman, but without the means to acquire and keep a second (Or they would just do that).

Here's two questions to really get your head spinning.

1. What would you do if your wife was infertile?

2. What should your wife do if you are infertile?

Hard questions.

It's probably something that should be discussed before entering a marriage.

^^ Not sure I would want to make the commitment to marriage without kids (unless I get a virgin lol).

So for me its honestly a deal breaker and I would understand if it was for her too.

Perhaps if I was married younger I would be more loyal. I know you can talk about it beforehand, but what people say they would do (what they think is right) and what they actually would do are often two different things. Agree that the conversation should be had, and that you might be able to gauge her sentiments from that convo.

Peter from Mad Men is a beta who is jealous and angry at alphas. Personally, I can't stand that kind of guy. I usually like beta guys, I almost always like independent kind of guys ( I am one). I usually like alpha guys. But betas who want to be alphas are really no fun.

In any case I wouldn't really mind if my long term girl friend was infertile. Marriage and kids in the Anglo world can wreak havoc on your long term happiness.I would however feel sad for the sake of my girlfriend.

Quote: (01-05-2019 03:17 PM)BBinger Wrote:  

Quote: (01-05-2019 10:23 AM)Caduceus Wrote:  

In the old codes of most religions, a "barren" wife gave the man grounds to get a mistress, or a second wife along side the first, or if the wife had a unwed sister, you could get the sister pregnant.

However, you could not divorce or abandon the barren wife unless she lied about being a virgin.

This is whole question is pretty much they why of concubines existing in healthy traditional societies. This and the wife or wives needing a social outlet. This institution survives enshrined into law in civilized countries like Uruguay. The best documented examples of these systems in practice can be found with the Ottomans and the areas they controlled.

Quote: (01-05-2019 10:40 AM)Caduceus Wrote:  

I also think in ancient times in some cultures, if the sister of the barren wife was already married with children of her own, she could still "volunteer" to get pregnant with her brother in law if her husband consented. After the birth the child would be adopted by the barren sister and raised as if her own.

I dont know how widespread this practice was though as it entails a man consenting to being cucked. (Although for a good cause).

Most likely it was done in secret with only the 4 of them knowing, so everyone involved remained publicly "respectable".

From my understanding this wasn't a cucking of any sort, but rather a loan. The brother would loan a fertile, preferably with a history of successful breedings, wife or concubine to the less fortunate brother's household. Generally these arrangements would be less necessary among successful men with the means to bring multiple women into their households. Lending a woman for breeding would involve a marginal brother who did manage to acquire a woman, but without the means to acquire and keep a second (Or they would just do that).

Good additional info there.

The main reason a barren woman's sisters were the preferred candidates for breeding was so that couple could raise a child that was genetically as close as possible to a baby that would have been born if she was fertile. The barren woman was not adopting some strange woman's child who she may secretly hate or resent, but that of her own sister. This helped insure she would be a lot less likely to reject the new baby, or treat it badly.

This also worked the other way round. If the man was infertile, he would be more likely to adopt a child if his wife conceived with his own brother than with a genetically unknown man.

Obviously this method won't work if the barren person doesnt have siblings or doesnt get along with any of them. Back in the day families were a lot bigger and it was rare that your choice in this regard was limited.

If my wife was infertile I'd use "Infertile Wife Game" (my new book) and build a harem of fertile wives like the Muslims do and make my original, infertile wife, the boss of the harem. She would then feel motherly looking after all of those hot young secondary wives.

Quote: (01-05-2019 03:33 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

Here's two questions to really get your head spinning.

1. What would you do if your wife was infertile?

2. What should your wife do if you are infertile?

Hard questions.

It's probably something that should be discussed before entering a marriage.

Hmmm...both parties will say what the other wants to hear, and neither is likely to hold to what they said.

This is probably one of those you just hope doesn't happen. I've also never heard of anyone getting tested beforehand for fertility.

Quote: (01-05-2019 04:02 PM)Robert Plant Wrote:  

Marriage and kids in the Anglo world can wreak havoc on your long term happiness.

A supportive/loving spouse and children on the other hand can give a man all the happiness he could ever wish for in this world and a potential fully realised.

Today, more than ever, the West needs men of strong character/leadership to take on that role.

Quote: (01-05-2019 03:33 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

Here's two questions to really get your head spinning.

1. What would you do if your wife was infertile?

2. What should your wife do if you are infertile?

Hard questions.

It's probably something that should be discussed before entering a marriage.

I recently had a mini ltr with a girl that was infertile. I got it out of her on the first date by asking why previous relationship failed. it was a very emotionally sensitive topic for her. had the relationship lasted, the plan was to have one of my gfs in another country carry the baby, as she had talked to me before about considering being a suragate mom and the infertility was a problem with the womb

for 2 I would explore all science options including cloning but failing a solution it depends on the girl and what she needs to be fullfilled. I would be fine raising some one elses kid in that situation weather with the wife or a new single mom I find

Quote: (01-05-2019 03:33 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

Here's two questions to really get your head spinning.

1. What would you do if your wife was infertile?

2. What should your wife do if you are infertile?

Hard questions.

It's probably something that should be discussed before entering a marriage.

With more younger guys getting on TRT, the second question is something a lot of guys will have to grapple with. Personally I got off TRT and my fertility started to come back 3 months after I stopped. Will have to retest to make sure but I’m not too worried. If all else fails, I’d look into IVF.

I had a plate that was infertile, and she shared that info very early on. I appreciated that, but knew I honestly would not consider her for a ltr/marriage because of that.

Quote: (01-05-2019 03:33 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

Here's two questions to really get your head spinning.

1. What would you do if your wife was infertile?

2. What should your wife do if you are infertile?

Hard questions.

It's probably something that should be discussed before entering a marriage.

In the current age, I am of the opinion that there are few reasons why men should get married other than to procreate, and honestly if there is another reason outside of procreation please let us know. If she is not willing to have a fertility test before marriage, or is deemed unfertile, than this automatically disqualifies her as marriage material in my book.

Quote: (01-05-2019 04:07 PM)Caduceus Wrote:  

This also worked the other way round. If the man was infertile, he would be more likely to adopt a child if his wife conceived with his own brother than with a genetically unknown man.

Watch "Outlander" Much?

Given how potent the XY Chromosome is, and how resistant that it is to change, this would be optimal. Even though they had no idea how genetics officially worked back then, they had a clue. Yes a man is basically cuckolded, but being a biological uncle and legal father is better than nothing especially if you need male airs.

As related repeatedly in literature and scripture, raising someone that is not related to you causes a lot of issues that most people don't realize until it is too late. Just say no. Even in this age where IFV can use anyone's genetic material, these issues come up all the time.

Don't want kids and I'm childfree so this would be a blessing

Quote: (01-05-2019 08:48 AM)redbeard Wrote:  

On the show Mad Men, there's an ongoing storyline where Pete Campbell's wife can't conceive. Pete does a sperm test and is 100% ready to go, but his wife isn't so lucky.

His wife suggests they adopt a baby. Pete thinks adoption is for cucks (I agree), and drama ensues. Tensions get so high that Pete throws a chicken off his balcony:

What would you do if this happened to you? It seems to me there are only a few options.

-Divorce
-Adoption
-IVF
-Impregnate another woman

For preventative measures, fertility testing is relatively affordable with the right insurance.

Impregnate and divorce another woman. It is what it is.

Especially as a man it makes no sense at all - the only difference would be if there were some extreme reasons for staying married - you being the head of the company that is owned by your wife's father. And even then siring an illegitimate son wouldn't be so bad, but you need to do it on the down-low.

But for most men this is a no-brainer - and of course this is the case for the example shown in Mad Men. Especially in that example it's insane. The 1960s had a massive surplus of fertile women vs available men. There were millions more single girls left due to the war and other issues. Pete from Mad Men could have had all the fertile pussy he wanted.

Quote: (01-05-2019 09:23 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

Quote: (01-05-2019 03:33 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

Here's two questions to really get your head spinning.

1. What would you do if your wife was infertile?

2. What should your wife do if you are infertile?

Hard questions.

It's probably something that should be discussed before entering a marriage.

Hmmm...both parties will say what the other wants to hear, and neither is likely to hold to what they said.

This is probably one of those you just hope doesn't happen. I've also never heard of anyone getting tested beforehand for fertility.

Best is to find a partner who does not want to have kids. It's 3-15% of the population. 3% women and 15% of men - currently likely higher, so your infertile ass is fine and the woman of course has to do the same - find a man who either has had kids and doesn't want any anymore or who is infertile himself. Problem solved. The world is big enough and there is currently no shortage of humans to mate.

Quote: (01-05-2019 01:42 PM)joost Wrote:  

...
I would just work my mojo to convince her I need to impregnate a beautiful girl since we need a baby with good genes.

Game at a very high level