Quote: (03-06-2018 03:36 PM)Black Caesar Wrote:  

My Game has nothing in common with used car sales, Subarus or Escalades.

The issue is that none of what you all are talking about is Game.

Guys here are going out one day a week for 30 minutes and declaring the night dead at 11. Then they walk home and swipe girls on Hinder and Dumble.

If you are a Shark then this is not how you operate.

If you have Game this is not what you do.

I have no need to sell girls.

I go out to fun spots with chill people. I see chicks that are fly and that I would want to spend some time getting to know in a deeper sense. I talk to them and if we are feeling each other then things go down from there.

Very little complicated about it.

If you are at a spot and can’t make things happen with a girl or two of YOUR CHOICE then you need to go back and work on your fundamentals.

If that's what works for you, great. Personally, I don't enjoy spending time at bars. Posting up and shooting the shit with a bartender doesn't sounds like my idea of a good time. And as stated above, the amount of actually attractive women here is so low you'd be wasting time by limiting yourself to one venue.

I have one goal — to fuck as many beautiful women as possible while expending as little time on this side hobby as possible. Life is a numbers game.

Gentlemen, I just completed a spectacular first evening of nightgame in beautiful Oakland, California.

The Thursday evening began at a trap soul party at Parliament, a small club that would probably burst at the seams if it hit 100 people. Mostly dudes and mostly ugly/fat girls. Approached the very few girls that were 6.5+ and didn't get much interest. Met a guy who was there picking up girls as well, who said to me "Do you think I can pull that chick?" motioning at an obese white girl. I looked on, horrified.

Rolled on to Telegraph Ave. Went into Make Westing. Maybe 20 people in there. No girl above a 5. Immediately left, disgusted. Went into Somar - saw legitimately the weirdest and most hideous crowd I had ever seen there. In and out in 30 seconds. Checked out the scene at Legionnaire. No one. Layover. No one. Both bars had maybe 15-20 people in them total.

The next destination was Level 13, who was having a Reggae Night for "International Women's Day". It was just before the cut-off point to get in for free (11:30 PM). I took a 45-second tour, and was confronted with maybe 30 people in a large open space, including 6 plain hipster-ish women corraling the dance floor. Next.

Back into old Oakland. Liege looked bumping so I poked my head in. 80% dudes, 15% fat chicks, 5% 6-set of 30+ women, only one of which was bangable. Ran into two ugly sisters I met at Parliament. Joked about them stalking me.

Back to Parliament. It was pretty bumping at this point. Maybe 80 people. Approached the 3-4 new passable girls that had arrived since last time I was in there. Highlight was a 2-set of sisters, one average-looking, one tall, slim stunner wearing no bra. I engaged them both, but only the average-looking one was interested. Didn't press it with the more attractive one because it was clear she wasn't interested.

The two ugly sisters from Liege were back again. The one older sister is trying to say it's "meant to be" for me and the younger girl because they keep running into me. I nod my head, wanting to die inside.

Left by 12:20 AM.

I tried. I really did.

Might make a whole weekend out of this madness. It's just too fun.

Props for actually going out...

A few things:

Did you really quit at midnight?? Reason all the spots were empty is you were way early. Midnight to last call is gold on Thursdays.

Writing the night off so early is a rookie mistake.

Work on your game dude... the girls you actually wanted in the night you couldn’t get cause of Bad Game. You mention a few times chicks you wanted not being in to you or not being interested. Glossed over all the approaches you did that didn’t work.

If you post about those in more detail we can break down your sticking points.

Real props though for actually hitting the street.

I usually roll out much later than you and then can get the girls I’m interested in with Game.

Also dog it’s fine to have different goals. I like going out and making a night and could care less if I get a new girl on that specific day.

Quote: (03-09-2018 03:35 AM)corsega Wrote:  

Gentlemen, I just completed a spectacular first evening of nightgame in beautiful Oakland, California.

The Thursday evening began at a trap soul party at Parliament, a small club that would probably burst at the seams if it hit 100 people. Mostly dudes and mostly ugly/fat girls. Approached the very few girls that were 6.5+ and didn't get much interest. Met a guy who was there picking up girls as well, who said to me "Do you think I can pull that chick?" motioning at an obese white girl. I looked on, horrified.

Rolled on to Telegraph Ave. Went into Make Westing. Maybe 20 people in there. No girl above a 5. Immediately left, disgusted. Went into Somar - saw legitimately the weirdest and most hideous crowd I had ever seen there. In and out in 30 seconds. Checked out the scene at Legionnaire. No one. Layover. No one. Both bars had maybe 15-20 people in them total.

The next destination was Level 13, who was having a Reggae Night for "International Women's Day". It was just before the cut-off point to get in for free (11:30 PM). I took a 45-second tour, and was confronted with maybe 30 people in a large open space, including 6 plain hipster-ish women corraling the dance floor. Next.

Back into old Oakland. Liege looked bumping so I poked my head in. 80% dudes, 15% fat chicks, 5% 6-set of 30+ women, only one of which was bangable. Ran into two ugly sisters I met at Parliament. Joked about them stalking me.

Back to Parliament. It was pretty bumping at this point. Maybe 80 people. Approached the 3-4 new passable girls that had arrived since last time I was in there. Highlight was a 2-set of sisters, one average-looking, one tall, slim stunner wearing no bra. I engaged them both, but only the average-looking one was interested. Didn't press it with the more attractive one because it was clear she wasn't interested.

The two ugly sisters from Liege were back again. The one older sister is trying to say it's "meant to be" for me and the younger girl because they keep running into me. I nod my head, wanting to die inside.

Left by 12:20 AM.

I tried. I really did.

Might make a whole weekend out of this madness. It's just too fun.

Well duh. Most of these guys will "bang" anything that moves. Black C is an old man in his 50s-60s, so everything looks good to him. That's why I usually frequent sites that have pictures.

Quote: (03-09-2018 09:57 AM)Black Caesar Wrote:  

Props for actually going out...

A few things:

Did you really quit at midnight?? Reason all the spots were empty is you were way early. Midnight to last call is gold on Thursdays.

Writing the night off so early is a rookie mistake.

Work on your game dude... the girls you actually wanted in the night you couldn’t get cause of Bad Game. You mention a few times chicks you wanted not being in to you or not being interested. Glossed over all the approaches you did that didn’t work.

If you post about those in more detail we can break down your sticking points.

Real props though for actually hitting the street.

I usually roll out much later than you and then can get the girls I’m interested in with Game.

Also dog it’s fine to have different goals. I like going out and making a night and could care less if I get a new girl on that specific day.

I left at 12:20 AM because there was nothing going on and the scene at the place I was at (Parliament) was not improving.

My Game is pretty tight. I have 50+ laycount in the past two years. I've banged 7s and the occasional 8 from Tinder (a place where usually guys are shooting two points below). Dominant voice, good body language, zero approach anxiety, I know when to escalate, kino, how to handle logistics, etc. I do not take numbers from 6.5s or less when I'm out.

Now, I don't have much nightgame experience but I have enough to know that you can't pin a girl not being interested in you on Game.

Very few girls are sexually available:
https://www.goodlookingloser.com/laid/in...mbers-game

When I go out, I'm screening girls for subcommunication. If I approach and talk to a girl for a minute or two, I'm going to roll out if she's looking at her phone, looking away, not asking me questions, pointing her feet away from me, etc. The sets where I rolled off, all of the above was happening.

Are you actually in your 50s-60s as Bigmac4u suggests? If so, that explains a lot about our differences in experiences.

Quote: (03-09-2018 01:16 PM)corsega Wrote:  

I left at 12:20 AM because there was nothing going on and the scene at the place I was at (Parliament) was not improving.

Still early to call it quits. You said yourself that Parliament had started to pick up the second time you went back. Pretty similar for the rest of the spots in the area...

Basically, midnight is a very early night.

Quote: (03-09-2018 01:16 PM)corsega Wrote:  

My Game is pretty tight. I have 50+ laycount in the past two years. I've banged 7s and the occasional 8 from Tinder (a place where usually guys are shooting two points below). Dominant voice, good body language, zero approach anxiety, I know when to escalate, kino, how to handle logistics, etc. I do not take numbers from 6.5s or less when I'm out.

Now, I don't have much nightgame experience but I have enough to know that you can't pin a girl not being interested in you on Game.

Yeah man this is the issue. Tinder fingers doesn't translate in to REAL LIFE.

They take totally different set of skills for the most part.

So because you spend most of the time on Tinder instead of being OUT, you're holding yourself back from success when you actually do go out.

For example, if you went out regularly, you might realize that it is pretty trivial to turn a seemingly non-interested girl in to one that IS interested.

It's called a hook.

Quote: (03-09-2018 01:16 PM)corsega Wrote:  

Very few girls are sexually available:
https://www.goodlookingloser.com/laid/in...mbers-game

When I go out, I'm screening girls for subcommunication. If I approach and talk to a girl for a minute or two, I'm going to roll out if she's looking at her phone, looking away, not asking me questions, pointing her feet away from me, etc. The sets where I rolled off, all of the above was happening.

If you chat a girl up and she turns to her phone in two minutes it is because of BAD GAME. As in, you don't know how to hook and get a girl interested in what you have to say, you are boring, don't know how to hold a conversation, or maybe all of the above.

The good news is that Game fixes all of that.

If I were you I'd work on how you HOOK girls and get some practice in on just that part.

That will increase the number of girls you can take from Open to Hook. Which is what you need before you iso and close.

Of course, if you have a limiting belief and can't believe Game works like this or don't understand how Game works like this, then you should check out those mental hangups.

Hooks, etc. for Tinder chicks is different which is where you're getting the disconnect. Maybe you can hook them online but not in person. Luckily that is something you can work on.

If I chat a girl, I can get to a Hook in no time because I know what buttons to press and how to pique her interest so that she is now INVESTED in the convo and sticks around.

Basically this is all Game 101 when it comes to GOING OUT.

Quote: (03-09-2018 01:16 PM)corsega Wrote:  

Are you actually in your 50s-60s as Bigmac4u suggests? If so, that explains a lot about our differences in experiences.

Nah bruh not 50-60s. That cracked me up.

Quote: (03-09-2018 06:24 PM)Black Caesar Wrote:  

Quote: (03-09-2018 01:16 PM)corsega Wrote:  

I left at 12:20 AM because there was nothing going on and the scene at the place I was at (Parliament) was not improving.

Still early to call it quits. You said yourself that Parliament had started to pick up the second time you went back. Pretty similar for the rest of the spots in the area...

Basically, midnight is a very early night.

Quote: (03-09-2018 01:16 PM)corsega Wrote:  

My Game is pretty tight. I have 50+ laycount in the past two years. I've banged 7s and the occasional 8 from Tinder (a place where usually guys are shooting two points below). Dominant voice, good body language, zero approach anxiety, I know when to escalate, kino, how to handle logistics, etc. I do not take numbers from 6.5s or less when I'm out.

Now, I don't have much nightgame experience but I have enough to know that you can't pin a girl not being interested in you on Game.

Yeah man this is the issue. Tinder fingers doesn't translate in to REAL LIFE.

They take totally different set of skills for the most part.

So because you spend most of the time on Tinder instead of being OUT, you're holding yourself back from success when you actually do go out.

For example, if you went out regularly, you might realize that it is pretty trivial to turn a seemingly non-interested girl in to one that IS interested.

It's called a hook.

Quote: (03-09-2018 01:16 PM)corsega Wrote:  

Very few girls are sexually available:
https://www.goodlookingloser.com/laid/in...mbers-game

When I go out, I'm screening girls for subcommunication. If I approach and talk to a girl for a minute or two, I'm going to roll out if she's looking at her phone, looking away, not asking me questions, pointing her feet away from me, etc. The sets where I rolled off, all of the above was happening.

If you chat a girl up and she turns to her phone in two minutes it is because of BAD GAME. As in, you don't know how to hook and get a girl interested in what you have to say, you are boring, don't know how to hold a conversation, or maybe all of the above.

The good news is that Game fixes all of that.

If I were you I'd work on how you HOOK girls and get some practice in on just that part.

That will increase the number of girls you can take from Open to Hook. Which is what you need before you iso and close.

Of course, if you have a limiting belief and can't believe Game works like this or don't understand how Game works like this, then you should check out those mental hangups.

Hooks, etc. for Tinder chicks is different which is where you're getting the disconnect. Maybe you can hook them online but not in person. Luckily that is something you can work on.

If I chat a girl, I can get to a Hook in no time because I know what buttons to press and how to pique her interest so that she is now INVESTED in the convo and sticks around.

Basically this is all Game 101 when it comes to GOING OUT.

Game is not some magic bullet that will make non-interested women sexually attracted to you.

Every single top PUA/coach that teaches nightgame emphasizes screening and "playing the game with the best odds". Every single man gets blown out more than they hook a girl, even good looking guys.

Your statements "If I chat a girl, I can get to a Hook in no time", "If you chat a girl up and she turns to her phone in two minutes it is because of BAD GAME", and "it is pretty trivial to turn a seemingly non-interested girl in to one that IS interested." sound like you're claiming otherwise.

We're just two dudes on an internet forum. But I guarantee if we were to go out infield, you couldn't get a majority of attractive girls to hook, and it would be for completely different reasons than your Game.

I follow the JMULV method, which emphasizes quick screening, a lack of gamey shit, just normal conversation and fast closing:
thread-52261.html

Oakland weekend continued with Friday night.

Went out in Polk Street in SF, and took one of the last trains back to Oakland. Started the night just after midnight at Make Westing. That place is complete garbage. I've probably been out there 5-6 times and I don't think I've ever seen a girl worth approaching. This night was no different. All fat and ugly girls and girls with boyfriends, plus it was like 70% dudes.

Walked by Somar, which had a maybe 70-person line. No thanks Jeff

Popped into Cafe Van Kleef, Dogwood, and Woods. Not a single approachable girl.

Onto Legionnaire again for 80s disco night. I like this place. One DJ on each floor and the upstairs ismore packed. I immediately approached a tall Mexican 6.5 getting water. Touched her, small talk/banter for a few minutes about going out downtown, but I could feel the interaction dying and she was boring so I went for the Instagram close with "I need more people to go out with". She didn't have her phone so I took her number as well. Went upstairs and made some cheeky comment to a 6 taking a photo. "Is it selfie night?" She immediately got handsy with me and started qualifying herself "No, it's not, I promise!" opened her phone and showed me the photos she was taking. Found out she has a boyfriend and is in a monogamous relationship so I rolled off.

Decided to check out Starline Social Club as well. Surprisingly, not all the girls were hipsters, which was a relief. Talked Danish with two homely Danish au pairs (The Bay attracts the ugliest au pairs, I swear to christ). Cutest girl there was in a big mixed set, I opened her, she was leaving, not much attraction but I went for the Instagram anyway, which she denied.

At this point it was 1:15 AM and much to my surprise, all the bars started closing off and not letting new people in. Really annoying for a venue-jumper like me. I went over to New Karribbean Kitchen and tried to see if I could sneak in, but they wanted a $15 cover to dance to shitty music with guys who look like they could be extras in a homemade hip-hop video from the East Oakland projects.

Last stops were Liege and Parliament in old Oakland. The door girl at Parliament wanted to charge me $5 even though it was closing in 15 minutes. Liege wanted $10 so I called it a night.

Fun night, yet the most disheartening thing is the lack of volume. Count it: went to 6 venues and approached every girl worth approaching, which was 3 girls in total. Even in SF I can find at least one girl to approach in a bar venue, usually multiple.

Good stuff man.

You're saying you only saw 3 girls the whole night you were out? Including on the street, in all the spots, etc.? I usually see more fly girls than that on a night out.

I agree that Oakland does not have the volume that the City has, and definitely not the volume of an actual night life town like NYC, Vegas or Miami.

Open to Hook ratio is something that you can actively work on so that you actually can get the majority of girls you want to hook.

My Open to Hook is very good like I had said, which is a mix of the verbals and emotion that I can bring to a convo quickly.

Like I said I would work on that as it seems like a sticking point for you with the mentions of boring convos and girls loosing attention mid way through your rap.

Here's a post from another forum where I break down how I run a typical hook. Funny because one of these examples is from an Oakland night:

Quote:Quote:

"You see a girl standing with her friend, at a bar, the two girls are not talking, instead they're looking around"

Depending on the vibe of the pair and the venue and what kind of energy I'm bringing to the night, I'll either go low key with something like "how are you all doing tonight" or "are you all still waiting?" and then ask them if it's a girl's night out or what they are doing out together. Get them talking about themselves and their night, and lay some bait so they ask some kind of personal question about me like where I'm from with some basic bait like Bacchus does like "i'm not from around here" or what I do with some bait like "I just got done with a client dinner that's why I'm so dressed up"

That's pretty typical stuff for me to come in with on the low energy side, and usually how I run things as I'm most likely posted at the bar and scoping things and just hitting up girls that go by with random comments like that.

Once they start asking you questions then it's pretty much at hook and you can move along and move the emotional state of the group however you want.

Sometimes, I'll go in harder to get a hook right off the opening.

Like the other night I was posted at the bar and some chicks were eyeing me because I was suited up and very fresh coming off some biz stuff in a bar where no one ever comes in a suit, so I rolled over and told them "It's not polite to stare" and that hooked right away as they jumped in to the convo laughing and denying that they were staring and accusing me of staring.

For a girl that is more yellow or red, I'll just amp up the emotions until she hooks or it blows up. Usually that's by dropping reads on her and then pivoting. So when she expects me to go right I go left. So with the above example, if they don't hook or start to ask questions off one of the low energy open and bait, then I'll mini cold read the pair until they hit an emotional response that falls somewhere between "OMG yes" and "OMG you're crazy."

With a pair of girls it's even easier than with one because you can play them off each other. Like I love asking one girl if the other one is the trouble maker in the group cause she looks like the trouble maker. Usually the friend will either agree or she will jump in to defend her friend, and then it just goes back on her like "ohhh so you're actually the trouble maker, see her vibe/earrings/necklace made me think it was her but now I can tell it's you because of your dress/vibe/makeup/etc"

Occasionally one girl is open to the convo and the other one is not, which is where it gets a little weird cause you have to decide if you want to focus on the receptive girl, or try and turn the other one. Usually for me that means back turning one girl and quipping about the other one to the girl I'm now facing.

If I back turn the receptive girl, she will almost always fight to get me back to facing her, so usually I do that cause now you are in there. Back turning the non-receptive girl can be ok, but it may make them even more non-receptive, or it might make them fight to get you to open up again by being nicer. That's a 50/50 move, haven't figured out a way around that too much.

Corsega,

That doesn't sound terrible actually. Why didn't you stick around Polk? I don't live in SF but I did a few years back and still visit regularly, and that is probably my favorite area to go out purely based on volume. My favorite thing there is street approaches. From 11 to close on weekends the streets are filled with people mobbing from one spot to the other. It's pretty easy to open, whether its a cigarette/lighter opener, "where's the best spot tonight", or whatever else you like to start with. I've also been pretty successful opening in line while waiting to get into a spot. No need to wait until you're inside the venue to talk to girls, in fact it can be easier outside since you can actually hear each other. This would work on Polk, as well as Marina, and Grant Ave in North Beach (underrated spot imo).

I don't deny that ratios in SF are pretty terrible and sure, you don't generally as many overtly HOT girls like you do in Miami NYC or LA. However on the upside, I think there's plenty of cute chicks in the right areas.. I don't usually see a lot of fat feminist types in the areas I mentioned, though maybe my eyes just see through them hah.

Also the bar for good game in SF isn't very high. If you can approach sober before 11pm and know how to approach groups, you're already ahead of the curve. I rarely see guys cold approaching in SF bars until the last hour when everybody's wasted. Guys obviously have money but don't really use it in terms of bottle service, etc. In Miami or LA at the spots where you see the hottest girls, guys typically spend their money on tables where all the hotties congregate. Still possible to pull of course, but that's an extra variable you don't have in SF.

Quote: (03-10-2018 03:28 PM)Black Caesar Wrote:  

Good stuff man.

You're saying you only saw 3 girls the whole night you were out? Including on the street, in all the spots, etc.? I usually see more fly girls than that on a night out.

....

Here's a post from another forum where I break down how I run a typical hook. Funny because one of these examples is from an Oakland night:

Quote:Quote:

"You see a girl standing with her friend, at a bar, the two girls are not talking, instead they're looking around"

Depending on the vibe of the pair and the venue and what kind of energy I'm bringing to the night, I'll either go low key with something like "how are you all doing tonight" or "are you all still waiting?" and then ask them if it's a girl's night out or what they are doing out together. Get them talking about themselves and their night, and lay some bait so they ask some kind of personal question about me like where I'm from with some basic bait like Bacchus does like "i'm not from around here" or what I do with some bait like "I just got done with a client dinner that's why I'm so dressed up"

...

Like the other night I was posted at the bar and some chicks were eyeing me because I was suited up and very fresh coming off some biz stuff in a bar where no one ever comes in a suit, so I rolled over and told them "It's not polite to stare" and that hooked right away as they jumped in to the convo laughing and denying that they were staring and accusing me of staring.

...

With a pair of girls it's even easier than with one because you can play them off each other. Like I love asking one girl if the other one is the trouble maker in the group cause she looks like the trouble maker. Usually the friend will either agree or she will jump in to defend her friend, and then it just goes back on her like "ohhh so you're actually the trouble maker, see her vibe/earrings/necklace made me think it was her but now I can tell it's you because of your dress/vibe/makeup/etc"

...

Yup, only 3 girls. Keep in mind that I am not really interested in opening any girl below a 7, as I know I can fuck those girls from Tinder without actually having to make an effort.

It sounds like we have very similar game. I use similar openers with you, especially the one about accusing them staring at you. I also play girls off each other frequently, using the same "you're the bad one, you're the good one" dichotomy.

Quote: (03-10-2018 05:27 PM)RDF Wrote:  

Corsega,

That doesn't sound terrible actually. Why didn't you stick around Polk? I don't live in SF but I did a few years back and still visit regularly, and that is probably my favorite area to go out purely based on volume. My favorite thing there is street approaches. From 11 to close on weekends the streets are filled with people mobbing from one spot to the other. It's pretty easy to open, whether its a cigarette/lighter opener, "where's the best spot tonight", or whatever else you like to start with. I've also been pretty successful opening in line while waiting to get into a spot. No need to wait until you're inside the venue to talk to girls, in fact it can be easier outside since you can actually hear each other. This would work on Polk, as well as Marina, and Grant Ave in North Beach (underrated spot imo).

I don't deny that ratios in SF are pretty terrible and sure, you don't generally as many overtly HOT girls like you do in Miami NYC or LA. However on the upside, I think there's plenty of cute chicks in the right areas.. I don't usually see a lot of fat feminist types in the areas I mentioned, though maybe my eyes just see through them hah.

Also the bar for good game in SF isn't very high. If you can approach sober before 11pm and know how to approach groups, you're already ahead of the curve. I rarely see guys cold approaching in SF bars until the last hour when everybody's wasted. Guys obviously have money but don't really use it in terms of bottle service, etc. In Miami or LA at the spots where you see the hottest girls, guys typically spend their money on tables where all the hotties congregate. Still possible to pull of course, but that's an extra variable you don't have in SF.

I wasn't feeling Polk St. on Friday. There actually wasn't a ton of volume. Maybe it heats up after midnight, but I had to catch the BART to the East Bay. You are absolutely right in that the best part about SF is guys just plain DON'T approach women. The nights I've been out I've never seen a guy approach a girl other than me.

OK, rounded out the weekend by going out Saturday night in Oakland. This is the only night that could be even considered a good use of time to go out, although I still feel it wasn't really worth it for the time invested. Much better quality and volume at every venue. Here are all the venues I went to:

Mad Oak

I was pleased with Mad Oak. I had been here a couple times before with friends and always liked the place. Not only did it have the best overall quality of any place I've been in Oakland so far, there was a pretty favorable gender ratio as well. The downside is that this place very much tends towards the "let's go out in a big group" crowd. Every set was 3 girls at least, and usually mixed sets. I opened several sets, including one whose fiance was inside. The rest didn't hook.

Ruby Room

This place is great. It's a dingy, dark, actual dive bar where everything is illuminated only by a faint red light. I had a great, but also confusing interaction here:

Opened three Cal girls in the pool room and they hooked immediately. My target, an 7.5 from China, was by far the hottest girl in the bar. Great banter with them and me DHVing about various things. I started to aggressively kino my target and she was receptive. Five minutes in I had my arm around her waist, pulling her over from the other two girls. Fifteen minutes in I was stroking her hair, rubbing her neck, and saying shit like "I like you, you have this innocent look, but underneath, I bet you have a hidden naughty side". The problem was that I couldn't figure out how to separate her from the two friends. The comparatively-innocent 22-year-olds were definitely out of place in the hive of scum and villainy that is the Ruby Room and they were sticking closely together. Eventually the Chinese girl suggested to her friends that they get a drink, so I rolled off and started talking to other people. After 15 minutes, I rejoined them and started kinoing the same girl. It was on again and our faces were really close, but I was still engaging the other two friends more in conversation. I leaned in and whispered in her ear that she wanted to dance, but she said (her English was not great): "I will speak to my friends." Not knowing if she meant she needed permission from her friends, or that she was going to stay with her friends, I rolled off. After five minutes I came back and let her know I was leaving, then told the friends I was going to steal the girl and take her out for a drink another evening. I asked for the girl's number and she just made a weird face and said "I can't." Not sure what happened there, everything seemed like a great interaction, I've never had a girl be that compliant and not want to take it further anymore.

Legionnaire

This place was having a J-Dilla tribute night. Just a reminder of why (except for the girls) I love this city. Good music, good vibes, and good people. It cost $10 but I managed to convince them to let me upstairs for free. I would have stayed but I was on a mission and there were no approachable girls in the bar this time.

Luka's Taproom

They wanted $5 to get in. As I was standing on the corner planning my next move, this black girl (about a 5.5) walked out with her friend and eyefucked the shit out of me. I called her over: "Come here. You can't look at me like that and not say hi." She was laughing. Spit game at her for a while and quizzed her about the place. She said it was worth $5 but her and her friend were heading to Liege. Got her Instagram using my patented IG close technique and she commented "You spit a good game."

Era Art Bar - $20 cover. No thanks.
Layover - $5 cover on Saturdays. Still probably not worth it given size of the venue.

Starline Social Club

There was a much more hipster crowd there than Friday. I walked in and brushed past this mixed 4-set to grab some water. On the way back, I saw this ugly hipster girl with a nose ring make a weird face at me. I made a "What?" facial expression at her and she stopped me and said (imagine this in the bitchiest, most self-righteous tone): "When you walked past me, you grabbed my body close to my ass, and that was not respectful." Note that this wasn't even close to true. "If you need to touch a girl, you should touch her upper body, it's generally safer". I did genuinely apologize to her and tried to make amends but she wasn't having it. I asked for her name and tried to shake her hand and she responded in a bitchy tone "That doesn't matter." I looked her in the eyes and said "You're a cunt." and walked off.

Typical Oakland feminists. There's no reasoning with them, if you give them an inch they'll take a mile.

Walked around for three more minutes looking for more girls but they were all ugly hipsters.

Make Westing

As usual, this place continued its tradition of having a bunch of dudes and ugly women. Spotted a golden opportunity immediately, a Latina 8 looking around bored whose (fatter) friend was inexplicably being chatted up by a pretty attractive guy. DHVed by speaking Spanish to her and talking about living in Latin countries. She was ice cold, I found out she was the serious, quiet one whose never had a drink in her life and spends her days holed up in her house reading and studying. I teased her mercilessly about being a bookworm and told her I was going to take her out and have some fun. Asked for her number and at first she said no because she needed to "focus on school", however I stayed in set and kept teasing her until she eventually said yes. BSed with her two friends for a minute and gained their approval as well.

edit: she gave me a fake number. welp, night turned out to be a waste

Damn! Oakland sounds terrible lol

Phone numbers have been done for a long time now. I never ask for a phone number because the flake rate is not worth it plus it lowers your value. It also reduces your chances of a ONS after you get a phone number (assuming they're actually interested) because it takes the urgency out of the situtation.

If you're talking to a girl that you've even slightly hooked and you roll off you can't just hang around and come back 15 minutes later. If you roll off it better be to live it up and flirt with other chicks. It makes you look like a chode because it's saying "I left because I didn't have anything else to say and went to find another girl but couldn't find any so I'm back with you"

I'm not trying to talk down to you or say you're a chode. I'm sure you're a cool dude but solo night game ain't checkers, that shit is chess. To think because you can slay tinderillas and you've read day bang means you can roll into a night venue solo and grab the attention of high value (hot) chicks and have them all over you, well good luck.

PS - for the last 15 years hot girls have gone out exclusively in groups. That's nothing new or exclusive to Oakland/sanfran. Have you ever gone out with a mixed group of hot girls before? (Not being a prick, genuine question). I've been out with mixed groups with hot girls that have literally said "God I need some dick tonight" and they go home alone. Either no one approaches or the ones who do don't do it well.

Side note: venues with high covers usually have better ratios. Girls get in for free so it only keeps cheap sausage out. You should be going to every high cover charge venue you can find.

If you're worried about the cost 1. Go out alot, you'll meet the staff and get in for free 2. Find the venues that get good and show up early before cover and hang around chatting the couple people at the venue up. Easy to make friends/social proof for later.

Quote: (03-12-2018 10:23 AM)tr1cky Wrote:  

Phone numbers have been done for a long time now. I never ask for a phone number because the flake rate is not worth it plus it lowers your value. It also reduces your chances of a ONS after you get a phone number (assuming they're actually interested) because it takes the urgency out of the situtation.

If you're talking to a girl that you've even slightly hooked and you roll off you can't just hang around and come back 15 minutes later. If you roll off it better be to live it up and flirt with other chicks. It makes you look like a chode because it's saying "I left because I didn't have anything else to say and went to find another girl but couldn't find any so I'm back with you"

I'm not trying to talk down to you or say you're a chode. I'm sure you're a cool dude but solo night game ain't checkers, that shit is chess. To think because you can slay tinderillas and you've read day bang means you can roll into a night venue solo and grab the attention of high value (hot) chicks and have them all over you, well good luck.

PS - for the last 15 years hot girls have gone out exclusively in groups. That's nothing new or exclusive to Oakland/sanfran. Have you ever gone out with a mixed group of hot girls before? (Not being a prick, genuine question). I've been out with mixed groups with hot girls that have literally said "God I need some dick tonight" and they go home alone. Either no one approaches or the ones who do don't do it well.

Quote: (03-12-2018 11:04 AM)tr1cky Wrote:  

Side note: venues with high covers usually have better ratios. Girls get in for free so it only keeps cheap sausage out. You should be going to every high cover charge venue you can find.

If you're worried about the cost 1. Go out alot, you'll meet the staff and get in for free 2. Find the venues that get good and show up early before cover and hang around chatting the couple people at the venue up. Easy to make friends/social proof for later.

Hey, thanks for the reply and I appreciate the advice, it sounds like you know your stuff.

From what I've seen, numbers are by no means done. JMULV gets the majority of his lays from nightgame number closes plus framing the date in person.

I follow his advice and only go for the number once it's clear logistics aren't going to work out or the girl isn't DTF that night. (I also don't tend to go for numbers, I go for Instagrams with status-whore girls, because I have a high-value Instagram).

What you say about rolling off makes sense. In the first situation I only left because the Chinese girl was talking to her friends about getting drinks at the bar and I wanted to give her space. I told them I was going to the bathroom, then went and talked to other girls/people.

I'm not expecting to become an expert overnight. I've gone out maybe... five times in my life and actively gamed. But with how fast I improved at online game, I can see myself getting better at nightgame over the next couple years.

To be honest, I don't mind paying covers if the ratios are good and the quality is good. Unfortunately, in Oakland's case, the venues aren't big enough and the quality isn't good enough to warrant paying a cover (even a $5 cover). With Tinder Plus I can sit at home and swipe for $0.33 a day and work passive leads, so nightgame is only worth it if I can increase my quantity/quality significantly above that.

Yeah corsega is right about numbers. Not dead at all.

In fact I’ve started almost always getting numbers as a “maybe we loose each other” mid interaction and then keep going. Doesn’t impede the rest of the pull at all.

San Francisco covers aren’t hard doors (anyone can get in that pays) so it doesn’t equal quality the way a door policy in other cities does. It’s good advice just not in the Bay.

I know you can still get numbers and make it work but 1. For beginners it's better practice to push for the lay to get instant feedback and build the right mentality towards chicks (all replaceable) 2. Getting fake numbers/flakes needlessly dampens the spirits.

If the girl is really into you she will make you give her your number. Not always,
but sometimes. If you always ask for the number you'll never experience this. (Whenever girls hand me their phones to put in my number I always save my name as Channing Tatum).

Most guys don't hook hard enough when they ask for the number. It makes them look like desperate chodes. Think if some random guy came up to you at the bar, chatted you up for 20 minutes (kind of awkwardly too, he twitched and kept shifting his feet, and was kind of sweaty looking) and then asked for your number. It'd be weird.

On the other hand, say a
cool dude comes up to you and says some funny shit, makes you feel like he's slightly cooler than you, maybe introduces you to a few of his (cooler than you) friends, tells you he's celebrating and buys you a couple shots, bartenders know him when he orders the drinks, tells you about a crazy new bar down the road so y'all walk over, even more people know him there, at last call he invites you back to his pad to play some pool. Given all that you'd probably go BUT, if you couldn't, and he was like no worries man let's party next weekend, what's your number? You'd probably give it to him no question. In fact, you'd want to.

Most guys do the first scenario. Players do the second. when you're a beginner it's better to get that upfront rejection than think you had a shot, only to get flaked on.

When you have the skills of a player and a bang can't work out because of logistics (the only reason a bang shouldn't happen that night if she's actually into you) you take the phone number.

You can always people collect too. Open 20 sets and get numbers from as many girls as possible, bounce after 5-10 minutes and then mass text. That's not really my thing so can't speak on that.

If you're going to do that method it'd be better to use a high value Instagram close. In fact, If I had Instagram I would close everyone with that and never do numbers.

Had a conversation with a friend the other night who works in the head office of one of those well known Silicon Valley companies. He makes great money and likes the work itself, but each day he walks on pins and fucking needles everywhere he goes.

Everything is a politically correct mine field, especially for him, being a straight white guy. Even as a left-leaning New Yorker, he says he finds himself on a different planet in a place like that with an office full of mostly women and "men" who think like women. The only way for him to protect himself would be to come out as gay or convert to Islam. Whether or not he was serious about either, if they believed him that'd be the only way to take the heat off of him in the event of an eruption.

I don't know how long a bubble like that can survive if it comes to the point where even people who might ordinarily be on the same team are now becoming targets. The inmates are truly running the asylum.

I've only done DG in the Bay area so far, but can hook with decent consistency.

I've done NG in Asia a lot, and have some ideas for how to do NG here.

corsega, let's game & see if we can help each other's game. My online game is decent, but could still improve. Mostly because I focus on F2F game rather than online, but I'm always looking to improve. You're an online expert so can help me out here a lot.

I have some personal concepts of NG that may run contrary to commonly proposed methods. I know it's better to have social proof + grease the bartenders, etc. but since early on in my development I've leaned onto self-reliance.

Which means, I've developed my game in an almost brutal manner regardless if I'm solo or with wings. This means, I see the challenge to approach the hottest girls in the club/venue whatever even dressed like a bum or without knowing anyone (this is not my default method of gaming haha). I also have gone through & tried strategic game whereby you work the room & get her interest high that way. Both ways can be useful & I dynamically adjust my strategy depending on the situational factors.

I've been rejected/blown-out by golddigger / high-maintenance types so much I've built up an immunity armor. Feels like deja-vu now in the patterned reactions I get. But through this, I've been working on twinks/nuances in my game such that I can start to hook these girls & get deeper into the interaction.

Yes, the number in NG is always a last resort. The fun is progressing in the interaction. Keep up the good work y'all & I look forward to learning & working with you Bay area vets.

Just had a chance to quickly go over the recent posts in the thread & I'll throw in my thoughts on this "SF sucks" matter.

I think both sides have a point.

Camp A (SF sucks with feminism, entitled, 49'rs, etc.):
Yes, there are better places elsewhere for sure. I actually got minor depression when I first got here after seeing the contrast vs. my previous target-rich environments. However, I still do see occasional quality targets. What does this mean?

1. You really need intermediate/advanced game here. Preferably advanced. Beginners will get slaughtered or need to have mad patience. I'd advise beginners here to not even get sad about rejections / blow-outs considering that you're operating in a desert to begin with. I've been in target rich environments & still gotten rejections/blow-outs so you can imagine the odds you are working with. It's a good thing I already have some game experience under my belt, because I can already imagine trying to learn game here in my beginner days: slaughtered.

2. Your targets will most likely be in groups or mixed sets here. This is why it helps to have experience with interacting in these types of sets. Thankfully, I went through an unintended, self-imposed bootcamp in the past (bootcamp was just me or with a wing where we approached whatever) where I just approached difficult sets without seeing any light at the end of the tunnel. Just felt right to do so if I was somehow going to improve in game. I see now here in Bay Area that ability can now pay off. In target rich environments, there are so many solo targets that you can pretty much subsist on those & have your fill & not have to do any more complex sets. Thankfully, my gut pushed me to develop game fundamentals rather than relying on easy sets.

3. I've had good logistics & style & STILL not hook girls. So I'm looking forward to test the challenge of Bay Area game. I may get slaughtered, but I see potential that strong enough Game can override poor logistics & style. I'll still work on those eventually (focusing on more important business matters in meantime), but I'll work with what I have for now & test the waters of Bay Area game.

Camp B (SF is awesome with sweet spots that satisfy my fill):
I've found better places elsewhere so I'm armed with knowledge of how more feminine & attractive girls operate. This is very useful here as poor attitudes & rude behavior from women are more amusing to me than offensive. I know where they lie on the SMV ladder better than they do themselves.

I've also seen & approached fly girls here in DG already and found that my prev. game experiences can carry over. This means I can work on game fundamentals still in this environment. So I probably won't invest serious resources into here (instead save it for traveling abroad to better game places), I still see the opportunities to level up game fundamentals here such that you improve your game on a fundamental level where you go.

-----

Also, any Bay Area gamers let me know if you want to game. I don't discriminate online, DG, or NG, but of course need to check my work schedule to see best times to meet up. Happy gaming bros!

Ok guys here is an example of how even BASIC game will get you far in the Bay.

The other day, posted at Press Club... finishing off a few drinks with a client. He leaves. I hang around as the happy hour crowd comes through. Shoot the shit with the bar tender.

There is some kind of party going on at the other bar area (I was at the one in the back).

I finish my drink and grab my stuff to head out to another spot when I see a fine chick. Exotic. Dress that is showing off her body. She looks great. She's with the party group but also looks BORED.

I fly by on my way out and jump in to the little group that she is in.

"Yo I'm on the way out but you look great tonight. I was thinking I should take you out some time."

She's surprised but she's in to it.

The dude standing next to her also part of the group goes "dang dude kinda of a long shot play huh"

I ignore him.

"You seem like you like sushi. Let's do sushi. Give me your number"

I pull out my phone. She types in her number.

A few days, some sashimi and a bottle of sake later...


This is what I mean when I say competition in the Bay is weak and it is EASY when you have Game. I don't think the dude knew what hit him.

NO ONE is stepping to girls like that in the Bay so when you do it is almost always a WIN.

She confirmed over dinner and later that she does not get hit up like that at all. This is a pretty, single, exotic chick in the bay that is a young professional... Just goes to show how easy things are.

I use this same close all the time there and it PAYS OFF.

Quote: (04-01-2018 02:17 PM)Black Caesar Wrote:  

Ok guys here is an example of how even BASIC game will get you far in the Bay.

The other day, posted at Press Club... finishing off a few drinks with a client. He leaves. I hang around as the happy hour crowd comes through. Shoot the shit with the bar tender.

There is some kind of party going on at the other bar area (I was at the one in the back).

I finish my drink and grab my stuff to head out to another spot when I see a fine chick. Exotic. Dress that is showing off her body. She looks great. She's with the party group but also looks BORED.

I fly by on my way out and jump in to the little group that she is in.

"Yo I'm on the way out but you look great tonight. I was thinking I should take you out some time."

She's surprised but she's in to it.

The dude standing next to her also part of the group goes "dang dude kinda of a long shot play huh"

I ignore him.

"You seem like you like sushi. Let's do sushi. Give me your number"

I pull out my phone. She types in her number.

A few days, some sashimi and a bottle of sake later...


This is what I mean when I say competition in the Bay is weak and it is EASY when you have Game. I don't think the dude knew what hit him.

NO ONE is stepping to girls like that in the Bay so when you do it is almost always a WIN.

She confirmed over dinner and later that she does not get hit up like that at all. This is a pretty, single, exotic chick in the bay that is a young professional... Just goes to show how easy things are.

I use this same close all the time there and it PAYS OFF.

Damn! This Definitely Deserve a



Also took a look at your blog... and I'm sure you got a Game Book in Ya! Grace through your content... and it definitely looked interesting!

Quote: (04-01-2018 02:17 PM)Black Caesar Wrote:  

Exotic. Dress that is showing off her body. She looks great. She's with the party group but also looks BORED.

I fly by on my way out and jump in to the little group that she is in.

"Yo I'm on the way out but you look great tonight. I was thinking I should take you out some time."

She's surprised but she's in to it.

The dude standing next to her also part of the group goes "dang dude kinda of a long shot play huh"

I ignore him.

"You seem like you like sushi. Let's do sushi. Give me your number"

I pull out my phone. She types in her number.

A few days, some sashimi and a bottle of sake later...


This is what I mean when I say competition in the Bay is weak and it is EASY when you have Game. I don't think the dude knew what hit him.

NO ONE is stepping to girls like that in the Bay so when you do it is almost always a WIN.

She confirmed over dinner and later that she does not get hit up like that at all. This is a pretty, single, exotic chick in the bay that is a young professional... Just goes to show how easy things are.

I use this same close all the time there and it PAYS OFF.

There's a lot missing from this story. Either she's ugly or you're attractive, or both, or you happened to screen well for an extremely horny guy that was into your archetype. Girls giving their number out in front their social circle is a moonshot event.

P.S. I've gone out every weekend for the last month in SF. Temple, Audio, Polk St., Marina. Stayed out until last call most of these nights. Did not once see a guy "pull" a girl outside of his circle.