Does anyone else feel this way?

Over the past few months I've become increasingly demoralized over my experiences with women. The road ahead is beginning to feel like a monumental challenge, and though I've never been one to shy away, I can feel my determination waning.

It just never seems like I'm enough, that they're always looking for something more.

And that would be OK, if not that it feels so unfair. It's a market after all, but it's a market bubble I feel I'm buying into. That there's no choice other than to pay the price even when removed from fundamentals.

And that would be OK too, if not for the fact that I've dug deep and determined what I really want is a meaningful and fulfilling LTR.

---
I can accept the goal of spinning plates, or even sLTRs -- the pathway to these realities is clear and achievable. But as crazy as this may sound, I want to one day get married, have children, and go down the route of a patriarch. I recognize the risks associated, I really do, and so the bar has been set high for what the relationship should be.

Though there is no choice than to continue pushing forward, I wonder if it'll all be worth it in the end. It seems like we must bear the burden of accounting for their weaknesses, keeping them in line, and directing them towards something greater. And what do we get in return..? It feels like so much work for so little.

---
There's more to it all, but this is my current general perception of things.

Am I or my goals delusional or naive? Is it entitlement on my end? I believe every action should be aligned towards a higher purpose/goal, but now I'm at a loss for what the goal should even be...

Any help or discussion would be greatly appreciated.

The issues you seem to be having with women are the same issues people have with other people in general. Some of the same things I used to complain about when I lacked game and perspective.

If you can't slay thots and have them wrapped around your finger how are you going to manage a nice traditional girl that wants to start a family? You dont expect that to be less work do you? Sure, the right woman is a blessing but they all pull the same amount of shit eventually. Without having the constitution, vision, wisdom and all those great things that come with experience your chances of coming out ahead look dim.

Keep learning, don't get stagnant, don't let the state of women get you down there are plenty of decent ones out there

Quote: (03-08-2018 09:32 PM)luckyfever Wrote:  

I can accept the goal of spinning plates, or even sLTRs -- the pathway to these realities is clear and achievable.

Who's goal is that? You don't need to accept any such thing if it's not what you want

Quote:Quote:

But as crazy as this may sound, I want to one day get married, have children, and go down the route of a patriarch. I recognize the risks associated, I really do, and so the bar has been set high for what the relationship should be.

That doesn't sound crazy at all, that is the natural order of things. It has been with women as well, that is until the state became their financial daddy and the SJW's told them they are oppressed for being loyal wives and mothers and that they need "more" than that "lowly" fate. Of course they come around to their biology at around 31-35 and wonder where "the good guys are"

Men are the party who want stable and long term relationships these days, and women want to "live life". It's just one more data point in the terrible situation men find themselves in these days. A lot could be written on this but I don't have the desire to right now.

Quote:Quote:

I'm at a loss for what the goal should even be...

To keep on truckin' mate, that's really all there is to do. To find enjoyment in this world in the seemingly subtle things most people miss because they are buried in their phone or drunk or high. There are many things you can find enjoyment in outside of booty, and a man must have some of those interests to sustain. You can maintain the hunt and your goals with females along with that, but not have it take over your mind and emotions.

Don't fall into the trap of one of the extreme responses many guys choose in the face of these circumstances- either swearing off girls completely or going headfirst into a succession of unsatisfying encounters that you don't actually want.

Keep your goals and hope of having what you want, while at the same time keep on keeping on: not getting hardened or jaded to life and girls, nor becoming a limp man doing things he doesn't want to.

The higher your value, the more desirable you are, the more purpose you have, the greater effort you put in to your own life and systems, the less work you will need to put in with women.

Do an honest self-audit, identify where you are lacking and work on that.

Figure out your strengths and how you can promote that with women.

You are entitled to whatever you want in a partner, don't sell yourself short.

What you feel is what the majority of every non-natural posters on here feel. After that it's just a question of perspective.

Roosh said it in his old posts, but there's a price to be paid for having women in your life. ONS, plates, girlfriends, wife, daughters, you pay, one way or the other. At some point like Noir said, you become so accomplished (I.e your game becomes second nature, your value goes up) the price seems smaller, but it's always there.

So it's always a question you have to answer for yourself: what are you willing to sacrifice? Your time, your sanity, your effort, your dignity, your sense of self?

I just ended a good LTR, and right after I had to dump the only girl left I was banging on the regular, for some reasons people would say stupid.
Chick is 18 yo, rides me like it's her last rodeo, madly in love with me, drew me a sick-ass DHV portrait. However, she has absolutely zero notion of respect and can't be happy to save her life. Every time she comes over, I cook for us and make us drink and then we fuck. People would say that's a fucking good deal, you provide resources (food and drink) and she provides sex. What's the matter?

Well it matters to me in the sense that she feels that her "love" alone entitles her to all the good treatment from me, all the while she can talk to me like I'm one of her beta dicksucker friends. So I told her to get the fuck out.

Now I'm feeling pretty irritated after a 2-week dry spell, all the while she's still blowing up my phone asking for another chance. I ain't having it. I'm not willing to sacrifice my dignity (some say ego) to blow my load in a nubile 18 yo.

My best buddy is the other way around. He's a very proud guy in general but when it comes to girl he bend over backwards to bang them. He can listen to their problems for hours on end, weather all the tantrums, take all the insults if in the end he gets to sleep with the girl. He would tell me I was stupid for letting that chick go, but we are not paying the same price.

Bottom line, it's a lot of work unless your lifestyle/personality/look is naturally geared towards it. An alpha biker drug dealer would feel like he pays no price at all (except for shitty life choices and jail time) Is it worth it? You alone can decide.

Just keep on grinding and grinding until you get "rich" enough that you barely notice the price you are paying.

If you’re not paying for sex, you’re the product

Quote:Quote:

It seems like we must bear the burden of accounting for their weaknesses, keeping them in line, and directing them towards something greater. And what do we get in return..? It feels like so much work for so little.

Seems like you need to find more independent or self sufficient woman. They do exist and life with them is so much better and easier. They have their own job, car, and tangible skills. They can handle their own shit and they are with you just because they like being with you, not because you need help with everything.

This forum however prefer damsels in distress who allegedly are more feminine and girly. To me they are just childish annoying and pain in the ass in general.

^XXL’s post brings something to mind - why no RVF love for working girlfriends/wives/mothers?

Say what you want about that “going against the natural order of things,” but having a woman who secures her own cash flow is less stress.

If I ever do get married, having a stay at home wife is a no-go.

This depends on so many factors... no stay at home wife for sure

OP, sounds like you might get a lot out of giving Jordan Peterson's self authoring program a whirl. I'm guessing that part of your frustration is that you are putting all this time and energy into interactions that don't actually move you in the direction you want, or at least minimally, and that could be because your little head is ruling over your main brain too much. If you are really on your mission, the vicissitudes of trout are almost all funny stories at the end of the day.

Sounds like you are paying attention to your surroundings. You'll be fine.

"I can't go on, I'll go on"
Samuel Beckett

Thanks for your thoughts everyone.

Quote: (03-09-2018 04:13 AM)Eugenics Wrote:  

If you can't slay thots and have them wrapped around your finger how are you going to manage a nice traditional girl that wants to start a family? You dont expect that to be less work do you?

Would it make sense then to make slaying thots and wrapping them around my finger the first major goal to work towards (before considering anything else)? Won't this turn off 'quality girls'?

Quote: (03-09-2018 05:01 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

So it's always a question you have to answer for yourself: what are you willing to sacrifice? Your time, your sanity, your effort, your dignity, your sense of self?

...I'm not willing to sacrifice my dignity (some say ego) to blow my load in a nubile 18 yo.

At some point like Noir said, you become so accomplished (I.e your game becomes second nature, your value goes up) the price seems smaller, but it's always there.

...Just keep on grinding and grinding until you get "rich" enough that you barely notice the price you are paying.

Dalaran, thanks for this -- it's an idea I haven't really considered. So far I've been making a conscious decision choosing not to 'sacrifice', and instead looking for a relationship where everything is 'as it should be'. In other words I think I may be pursuing an unrealistic ideal without building the foundational framework ('richness') to attain and support it.

One pathway forward I see is the conscious decision to renounce and compartmentalize my ideals, to make that sacrifice and rebuild from the ground up. This would involve sacrificing my dignity (which may be misplaced in the first place), my sense of self (to view the whole process purely as a game), and to drastically lower my standards for volume.

Is this a viable way forward? Are the above^ worth sacrificing (even temporarily) in pursuit of something greater? Will one get 'lost' along the way? It's like taking the humanity out of the game in return for science, and it's an uncomfortable thought as it would require immense commitment to see things through.

Quote: (03-09-2018 11:28 AM)PondScum Wrote:  

OP, sounds like you might get a lot out of giving Jordan Peterson's self authoring program a whirl. I'm guessing that part of your frustration is that you are putting all this time and energy into interactions that don't actually move you in the direction you want, or at least minimally, and that could be because your little head is ruling over your main brain too much. If you are really on your mission, the vicissitudes of trout are almost all funny stories at the end of the day.

Sounds like you are paying attention to your surroundings. You'll be fine.

"I can't go on, I'll go on"
Samuel Beckett

I second this. Once you identify your goals (it suggests up to 8) you later go on to prioritize them. I soon realized there were far more important things to take care of than getting laid or even getting into an LTR.

As another poster mentioned, if women are taking a lot of effort, it is probably because you're not everything you could be. And even if you are successful with them, you will quickly feel diminishing returns and a massive drain from investing so much time and energy, especially if the rest of your life isn't where you want it to be.

Quote: (03-10-2018 03:41 PM)luckyfever Wrote:  

Quote: (03-09-2018 04:13 AM)Eugenics Wrote:  

If you can't slay thots and have them wrapped around your finger how are you going to manage a nice traditional girl that wants to start a family? You dont expect that to be less work do you?

Would it make sense then to make slaying thots and wrapping them around my finger the first major goal to work towards (before considering anything else)? Won't this turn off 'quality girls'?

Though women vary wildly in quality and what they're useful for almost all of them still come with same base instincts. They want a masculine man that's in control, a leader, and someone that's mentally and emotionally equipped to deal with their bullshit. Women may he and haw about what they find attractive and present themselves like they all like different things but in general they all want the same thing, even blue-haired feminists with problem glasses. The same things that will have you slaying thots and getting rabid feminists to do your dishes/laundry/cook, and want to fuck you 2-3 times a day will have a nice traditional girl doing the same and ideally better.

Now the "player" moniker may or reputation may turn a good quality woman off not because you've been successful with women (which turns women on as a base instinct called preselection) but because their ego and anti-slut defense may go into overdrive making her increasingly sensitive to your advances and paranoid/insecure about you leaving them.

My first goal and recommendation with you is to increase your competency with women. The only way I've found that achieves this is reading here and trying your theories/style/game in the wild. Time after time after time. For me it inevitably led to slaying thots and domesticating them for short periods of time until they get distracted by the next shiny dong with the added caveat of stumbling into a few good quality women that made excellent LTR and possible mother of my children candidates.

Quote: (03-08-2018 09:32 PM)luckyfever Wrote:  

I believe every action should be aligned towards a higher purpose/goal, but now I'm at a loss for what the goal should even be...

Certain philosophies and especially religions and/or religious people have long taught this concept of meaning, higher purpose, and goals. Christianity, logo-therapy, Islam, to name a few. Accepting chaos and chance can be scary thing for men who have a need to feel in control.

To me it's sort of like being on a donkey with a stick over it's face a carrot hanging on a thread. Doesn't matter how hard the donkey tries, how fast he walks, how much he really wants that carrot, he's never going to get there. I see life much like a dance, there's no destination to go, you're just dancing around in circles, along with everyone else, and then you realize the whole purpose is not to go anywhere, it's just to enjoy the dance.

I'm not telling you do become a rock star, do rails of blow, and drink yourself to death because goals and meaning are for the blinded, I'm just saying that maybe the meaning of life is just to be alive and enjoy the ride and feel laughter, love, and friendship without having to be climbing toward some objective all the time. Maybe instead of looking for something to hold onto; you should just let go of everything.

Sure is hard to deal with.

I've worked my entire life to get where I'm at. (Now in my late 20's)

Been slaving away in school/corporate America to reach a top percentage salary.

Been lifting since middle school to get a shredded athletic physique.

Luxury apartment, major city, luxury car.

Reading about game, racking up traveling experiences, maintaining my style, social media presence, etc since college ended.

To top it off, I'm handsome with pretty much anti-aging genetics.

The guys who have met me on the forum will vouch that this is all true. I'm not saying this to brag, because I'm reiterating the OP's original point of my depression in the dating scene. I'm not sure how much higher my SMV can get without fame-and I regularly get blown out by soft 6's. Dating has been and will continue to be a struggle for me for my entire existence in Western society. I usually pull in the 6-7 range, with the occasional 8 or 9. I can't keep anything higher than a 6 around for more than a couple weeks.

Last night I'm banging one of my plates, a 6 in NYC. She makes 40k/yr and lives in the 'hood. She's telling me about her past hookups in NYC. Multiple model-looking guys, hedge fund millionaires, startup founders, etc. And she's just a 5 without makeup. I could hardly get it up for her.

I'm getting extremely frustrated at how lopsided the sexual marketplace is.

I don't know when this bubble is going to burst, but I hope it's soon. I was watching a movie, i forget what it was, it was about a man and his robotic girlfriend, a HB9. I was thinking aloud with my plate: imagine how cool it would be to have a hot woman that you could control with a remote.

It's incredible the options that an average chick in NYC (or any major city) has.

Quote: (03-10-2018 06:03 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

Certain philosophies and especially religions and/or religious people have long taught this concept of meaning, higher purpose, and goals. Christianity, logo-therapy, Islam, to name a few. Accepting chaos and chance can be scary thing for men who have a need to feel in control.

To me it's sort of like being on a donkey with a stick over it's face a carrot hanging on a thread. Doesn't matter how hard the donkey tries, how fast he walks, how much he really wants that carrot, he's never going to get there. I see life much like a dance, there's no destination to go, you're just dancing around in circles, along with everyone else, and then you realize the whole purpose is not to go anywhere, it's just to enjoy the dance.

I'm not telling you do become a rock star, do rails of blow, and drink yourself to death because goals and meaning are for the blinded, I'm just saying that maybe the meaning of life is just to be alive and enjoy the ride and feel laughter, love, and friendship without having to be climbing toward some objective all the time. Maybe instead of looking for something to hold onto; you should just let go of everything.

God damn, Linux.

Good stuff.

Quote: (03-10-2018 09:43 PM)Graft Wrote:  

Sure is hard to deal with.

I've worked my entire life to get where I'm at. (Now in my late 20's)

Been slaving away in school/corporate America to reach a top percentage salary.

Been lifting since middle school to get a shredded athletic physique.

Luxury apartment, major city, luxury car.

Reading about game, racking up traveling experiences, maintaining my style, social media presence, etc since college ended.

To top it off, I'm handsome with pretty much anti-aging genetics.

The guys who have met me on the forum will vouch that this is all true. I'm not saying this to brag, because I'm reiterating the OP's original point of my depression in the dating scene. I'm not sure how much higher my SMV can get without fame-and I regularly get blown out by soft 6's. Dating has been and will continue to be a struggle for me for my entire existence in Western society. I usually pull in the 6-7 range, with the occasional 8 or 9. I can't keep anything higher than a 6 around for more than a couple weeks.

Last night I'm banging one of my plates, a 6 in NYC. She makes 40k/yr and lives in the 'hood. She's telling me about her past hookups in NYC. Multiple model-looking guys, hedge fund millionaires, startup founders, etc. And she's just a 5 without makeup. I could hardly get it up for her.

I'm getting extremely frustrated at how lopsided the sexual marketplace is.

I don't know when this bubble is going to burst, but I hope it's soon. I was watching a movie, i forget what it was, it was about a man and his robotic girlfriend, a HB9. I was thinking aloud with my plate: imagine how cool it would be to have a hot woman that you could control with a remote.

It's incredible the options that an average chick in NYC (or any major city) has.

I feel the exact same way that you do bro. I've noticed a steady downward trend for the worse in the dating market in the last few years; and especially in the last 6 months.

I'm no schmo myself. Not trying to be a chode and brag (6'5", 220 @ 11%BF, decent job, and good social life/media). You think that it would be a lay up to score with a >7 chick.

From my observations night game is almost dead for the most part. Going out to bars/clubs now it's like 80% guys and 10% mutant looking women which leave only 10% of normalish looking girls.

I've also noticed way more dudes approach chicks in the US recently then there used to be. Granted most of them sound like autists but this makes girls more defensive for when guys with game go to hit them up and just feeds their ego in a bad way as well.

Online game is also going down hill. Long gone are the days where you could order pussy to directly to your house from tinder. Now I've noticed girls are more on it for attention or when they're bored. It's way harder to get chicks to meet up with you and when they do it mostly only goes for 1-2 dates then ghost.

Now before you say "Mr. Bigglesworth it could just be your game/calibration" let me say I already tested that hypothesis. I've re-read all my game books, highlighted, took notes, wrote my personal guide from the best excerpts from all the books, read more on sales/psychology, watched more game videos, got my social media/skills on point, etc... This shit's a hobby for me at this point.

After all this is still feels like i'm putting in way more effort than I used to for a way less result.

It would be a good discussion for another topic to examine what is causing this shift in the dating market. Who benefits? And how do we adapt?

Second the advice in this thread. However, here's what I would say which I think is the most relevant:

For God's sakes, please stop blaming the world, or culture, the west or its women for your problems. Main issue is that you're insecure and projecting that on to problems that are known to be true in this community to alleviate accountability for yourself.

It's a common pattern on the forum these days and it's painful to follow. You need to focus on yourself. Stop groveling, take action and report back.

We will help you adjust if you're fucking up in the process. We're not here to make you feel better but rather help you BE better.

Women in the US seem to have infinite options. If she's halfway decent looking, not fat, rest assured her tinder/bumble/anything else she on is in a constant state of refresh. You've maybe gotten 3 matches in a day, she's easily gotten 300 simply by being average. As a man, you really have to be high SMV nearing fame level to get the level of attention the average woman gets. The average woman gets as much attention as a stripper on the clock at work.

I'm convinced ratio plays a bigger role than gets discussed. Liberal politics, feminism, unstable homes seem to take the cake here, but having far more men matters as well.

While most guys are complete stooges, the attention is still there.

I know most on this forum like him, but ever since Trump became president, I really don't think it's a better time for men (I'm not a SJW/SWPL type either), it's just the plain truth. Entering this new conservative revolution isn't really this great thing it's made out to be. Surprising, given, it's Trump, the only president in history to have had a small part in a softcore porn film, and has banged a porn star. Probably a lot.

There's way too much anger/division at the moment.

First of all OP, know that your problems are mine as well.
Here is my thoughts on the subject :

Quote: (03-10-2018 09:43 PM)Graft Wrote:  

I've worked my entire life to get where I'm at. (Now in my late 20's)
[...]
Last night I'm banging one of my plates, a 6 in NYC. She makes 40k/yr and lives in the 'hood. She's telling me about her past hookups in NYC. Multiple model-looking guys, hedge fund millionaires, startup founders, etc. And she's just a 5 without makeup. I could hardly get it up for her.

I'm getting extremely frustrated at how lopsided the sexual marketplace is.

I don't know when this bubble is going to burst, but I hope it's soon.

Graft, you sound like a great guy and it pains me to read how much work you have put in just in the end to get a girl who makes you hate yourself when you bang her.

Respect yourself and bang only girls at least cute. Big cities are the worst in terms of girls entitlement and guys competition, so why not moving to a smaller city ? I know all the satisfaction of saying "I live in NYC" (for me it was Paris), but it's an empty dream. I moved to a smaller city and it's better on every aspect.

As for the bubble, unless we have a major crisis (war typically), we will live through it. It doesn't mean there aren't viable options, just think outside of the box...

Quote: (03-10-2018 10:42 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

Second the advice in this thread. However, here's what I would say which I think is the most relevant:

For God's sakes, please stop blaming the world, or culture, the west or its women for your problems. Main issue is that you're insecure and projecting that on to problems that are known to be true in this community to alleviate accountability for yourself.

It's a common pattern on the forum these days and it's painful to follow. You need to focus on yourself. Stop groveling, take action and report back.

We will help you adjust if you're fucking up in the process. We're not here to make you feel better but rather help you BE better.

We (and I include myself) need to live with this motto in mind :
Winners concentrate on winning, losers compare to each other or focus on the negative

How to win you ask ? You already know the answer : moving to a smaller city (yes you won't be able to brag, but if you get what you want out of it, who cares ?), forgetting clubs/tinder, maybe moving abroad, etc.

Is the dating market hard ? Yes, but the task is NOT impossible. Our lot in life is to endure, to climb mountains and to show the world the strength in real men. We already had to courage to swallow to red pill and face all this nasty realities, so WE CAN DO IT !

Marriage and kids is a tough sell because the payoff is nothing you can adequately describe.

On paper it just seems like a total writeoff, yet once you're there you wouldn't trade your family for all the money in the world.

Biology is funny like that.

Quote: (03-10-2018 06:03 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

Quote: (03-08-2018 09:32 PM)luckyfever Wrote:  

I believe every action should be aligned towards a higher purpose/goal, but now I'm at a loss for what the goal should even be...

Certain philosophies and especially religions and/or religious people have long taught this concept of meaning, higher purpose, and goals. Christianity, logo-therapy, Islam, to name a few. Accepting chaos and chance can be scary thing for men who have a need to feel in control.

To me it's sort of like being on a donkey with a stick over it's face a carrot hanging on a thread. Doesn't matter how hard the donkey tries, how fast he walks, how much he really wants that carrot, he's never going to get there. I see life much like a dance, there's no destination to go, you're just dancing around in circles, along with everyone else, and then you realize the whole purpose is not to go anywhere, it's just to enjoy the dance.

I'm not telling you do become a rock star, do rails of blow, and drink yourself to death because goals and meaning are for the blinded, I'm just saying that maybe the meaning of life is just to be alive and enjoy the ride and feel laughter, love, and friendship without having to be climbing toward some objective all the time. Maybe instead of looking for something to hold onto; you should just let go of everything.

I've come to appreciate Alan Watts more every day. From Does it Matter:

Quote:Alan Watts Wrote:

Just exactly what is the “good” to which we aspire through doing and eating things that are supposed to be good for us? This question is strictly taboo, for if it were seriously investigated the whole economy and social order would fall apart and have to be reorganized. It would be like the donkey finding out that the carrot dangled before him, to make him run, is hitched by a stick to his own collar. For the good to which we aspire exists only and always in the future. Because we cannot relate to the sensuous and material present we are most happy when good things are expected to happen, not when they are happening. We get such a kick out of looking forward to pleasures and rushing ahead to meet them that we can’t slow down enough to enjoy them when they come. We are therefore a civilization which suffers from chronic disappointment — a formidable swarm of spoiled children smashing their toys.

Two other good ones:

Quote:Alan Watts Wrote:

Same way with dancing. You don’t aim at a particular spot in the room because that’s where you will arrive. The whole point of the dancing is the dance.

Quote:Alan Watts Wrote:

To have faith is to trust yourself to the water. When you swim you don't grab hold of the water because if you do you will sink and drown. Instead, you relax and float.

OP, I also thought about another point to piggyback off my last post. I paid close attention to Dalaran1991 and LINUX's post.

Dalaran is on point regarding your concern as a non-natural gamer. Is it me or is there just an abundance of threads these days from men that are extremely dissuaded by the concept of women? It pretty much leads you to believe that the culture has truly deteriorated to such a point that exclusive of what a man does, he cannot get women, whether LTR or bangs. Is this true? We have to really question this HARD today. The hard question is:

Are we in the manosphere dissuading men against women to such an extent that we have made it hard for inexperienced men to build any kind of relationship with a women?

This is where LINUX's post regarding "letting go" makes very profound sense. This means don't let some blog or posts dictate your own life. Don't feel like you have some obligation to follow a certain set of rules or techniques. Just let go and do what you feel for a bit whether it's a month or a few months or more. Is there a place you like going to or enjoyed as a kid? Go there. Is there a friend or relative you miss that you're close to? See them. Do you have hobbies? Follow them.

I'll tell you what. I have seen way too many posts and articles regarding the fall of the west and the deterioration of women. It may have deteriorated but definitely not to the extent that it appears on the surface. Women inherently are not that bad if you have game. The problem is we make too many judgments without game and it affects us to the point that we blame external forces like culture rather than focus on ourselves. We then have men reading our posts and taking them for face value because they have no other perspective. I'll admit I'm guilty of this.

OP: Take the advice from the other gentlemen too but might I also add that you need to get away from focusing on your failure with women and concentrate on success in yourself. You seem to be a normal guy. Don't stop developing yourself because you perceive some larger issue. There isn't. Work on your inner game. Hit the gym and understand that women aren't all that bad. Give them a chance when you're ready.

Quote: (03-10-2018 10:42 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

Second the advice in this thread. However, here's what I would say which I think is the most relevant:

For God's sakes, please stop blaming the world, or culture, the west or its women for your problems. Main issue is that you're insecure and projecting that on to problems that are known to be true in this community to alleviate accountability for yourself.

It's a common pattern on the forum these days and it's painful to follow. You need to focus on yourself. Stop groveling, take action and report back.

We will help you adjust if you're fucking up in the process. We're not here to make you feel better but rather help you BE better.

I think this a little unfair to the OP. He doesn't seem to be having problem getting chicks but he's having problems figuring out a path forward with them which is something that doesn't get nearly the attention and discussion that it should on the forum (overwhelming discussion is about how to go about getting them in the first place). As men, I think its fair to demand much more from the women we date. If we as men demand more of these chicks, then you'd slowly but surely start to see changes in their behavior but most guys are failing miserably in this regard. I know for myself that I expect certain behaviors from women that I date and I'm not the least bit shy about communicating this, no fucks given for how offended she gets. It also serves as a shit test to weed out stupid chicks. I agree with making yourself as high value as you can because then you can demand these things from women and if they want to be in your high value life then she needs to get down with the program, period.

Luckyfever, I'm not sure how old you are but just keep going, keep working on yourself, making your life great. Then if you want to find that girl to marry and have kids, then look for her and understand that it will take time, a lot of effort and likely a lot of heartache. It's just the way it is, there's no sugar coating that. Linux's parable about the donkey and the carrot on the stick is very true, often in life we are chasing things and following paths for which there is no final destination, no great payoff which we had anticipated. Women may be at the top of the list of things that fit into this category given the mercurial nature of the vast majority of women. Women come and women go, that's just how it is, even the ones who you marry for 20 years and have kids with. Just be happy, live life, have a plan so at least the donkey will try to walk in a straight line instead of a circle and don't waste time with loser women who will be vampires, sucking away your at your life.

^I think I was definitely harsh but and understand your point doc but from OP's post I didn't gather that he had success with women. If he did, I would agree you're correct. However by the same token, my perspective was that he appears to be speaking somewhat theoretically and hypothetically rather than speaking from experience. There just aren't enough facts for me to say that he has had positive experiences or at least bangs to drawn on and as a result, make a conclusion that he now is dissuaded. OP, I think you need to clarify this for us.

The tone of the post also seemed to be coming off as frustration from a person that is on the path of giving up on women. My point is that he doesn't need to but he also needs to fix his inner game to get there