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Silicon Valley companies can be hurt if we stand AGAINST net neutrality
08-20-2017, 06:55 AM
I strongly oppose this.
1. ISPs haven't tried to censor dissident political sites because they don't have the power to do so. If they did, there's no guarantee they wouldn't use it, and in fact it's highly likely they would.
2. In the event that ISPs started throttling dissident political websites, it is far, far harder to enter into the market against them than it is to enter into the market against google, facebook, youtube etc.. You're talking hundreds of millions or billions just to lay down the infrastructure so that you have a product people can switch to from the existing monopolies. At least facebook and google's monopolies are only those intrinsic to network goods: it didn't cost $500m to set up duckduckgo.
The real battle, in my opinion, needs to be forcing giants like youtube/google/facebook to honour the first amendment by arguing that they constitute an extended public space that we all interact with inescapably. By kowtowing to 'hate speech'-style laws, they are forcing American citizens to abide by foreign laws in what amounts to an extended public space.
Imagine if private corporations owned every street and building outside your house, and if you said anything politically incorrect, they could ask you to leave 'their' property, forcing you back home. Well, as long as it's not the gobermunt, right? This is the situation with the internet and the big tech giants.
The difficulty comes in that these could not be sweeping laws affecting the entire internet, or sites like this would become compromised. There is a clear distinction to be made between a private forum, where the administrator(s) decide who is allowed in and what they can say, and typical social media platforms like facebook/twitter/youtube, which amount to a public space. How you'd make this distinction legally, I'm not sure.
Likewise, something needs to be done about all these sites, including google, manipulating the flow of information. Information is a form of power, and google in particular is a bottleneck in the flow of information around the internet. They must be forced to treat this information flow in an entirely neutral manner, somehow. No more redirecting people who search 'jihad' to sites made by muslim apologists to protect the ideology of islam: this is engaging in information warfare against the people using your service, and must not be allowed. Again, the specific legal distinctions made here are critically important: I've not thought through how you would unambiguously word such a notion without inviting massive unintended consequences.
The main thing to remember always, is that it's far easier to do a massive amount of harm, than the same amount of good. Something clearly has to be done at this point, but it would be very easy to transform a bad situation into an even worse one by not thinking things through thoroughly.
Quote: (02-26-2015 01:57 PM)delicioustacos Wrote:
They were given immense wealth, great authority, and strong clans at their backs.
AND THEY USE IT TO SHIT ON WHORES!
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Silicon Valley companies can be hurt if we stand AGAINST net neutrality
08-20-2017, 07:04 AM
Nah Roosh I'm gonna have to disagree. This is one of those cases where sticking it to your enemies (the Silicon Valley shitlib geeks) will hurt me as well. ISPs aren't our friends, they're megacorps who are salivating at any chance to grab some more power and make some more money. You give them a finger and they'll take your whole arm, charging for "premium" bandwidth, will probably institute a surcharge fee for "troublesome bandwidth" etc. The only reason they aren't doing it right now (or at least not to a noticeable and open extent) is because they're forbidden by law from doing it.
The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy, even if he annoys my other enemy a bit.
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Silicon Valley companies can be hurt if we stand AGAINST net neutrality
08-20-2017, 07:25 AM
There isn't net neutrality in China and it really sucks. Without a VPN connecting you directly through to a foreign server, it can be difficult to impossible to access website hosted outside of China.
I've had trouble accessing and have sometimes been unable to access RVF on certain Chinese ISP because of this.
I use a VPN service about 97% of the time when I'm surfing in China, because due to throttling, the Internet really, really sucks here, unless you are using Baidu, which I'm sure pays out the ass for the privilege of being at the top of the list.
I'm the King of Beijing!
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Silicon Valley companies can be hurt if we stand AGAINST net neutrality
08-20-2017, 07:36 AM
I can't make the jump between giving into weaponizing net neutrality and the thing working out for the user. This fight for freedom of conservative expression has no allies. All companies want to sanitize what we think and say.
At what point in the process would either content providers or ISPs think twice about censoring content?
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Silicon Valley companies can be hurt if we stand AGAINST net neutrality
08-20-2017, 07:41 AM
ISP's aren't going to censor large sites like Facebook or Twitter like this video says, the auther makes a few leaps in logic that don't really make sense. Individual sites like facebook or twitter have no obligation to allow anyones viewpoint regardless of what it is, same as how anyone here can be banned if deemed appropriate by the mods. What net neutrality ensures is that smaller websites with possibly alternative viewpoints won't have their speeds throttled. And given the bannings from many mainstream sites, this is more important than ever.
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Silicon Valley companies can be hurt if we stand AGAINST net neutrality
08-20-2017, 07:44 AM
Nope, net neutrality is needed. Without net neutrality, we CAN'T hurt large tech monopolies. Who else can afford the premiums the ISPs will charge for good service?
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Silicon Valley companies can be hurt if we stand AGAINST net neutrality
08-20-2017, 08:07 AM
Regulation as public utilities is the correct solution if we can get it done. I suspect the lobby of these massive companies is too strong for anyone to push it through.
If not possible, we need net neutrality because the next best thing is to build our own critical infrastructure. Hosts, registrars, DDoS protection, social media networks, etc. The biggest bottleneck would be mobile operating systems and their controlled app stores.
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Silicon Valley companies can be hurt if we stand AGAINST net neutrality
08-20-2017, 09:20 AM
It is my understanding that allowing the continuation of net neutrality or its affirmation will destroy the smaller ISP's and create even bigger ISP corporations. That being said I can see that not having net neutrality could do the same thing as well as pricing rural areas out of the market.
That being said, I believe Google has plans to become the biggest ISP as they've shown with their push of google fiber. It suits them to create a system where no new ISP's can hope to ever enter the market. Net neutrality would help a bigger corporation such as google because they can afford to pay and buy up the smaller ISP's. The libertarian idea of more competition doesn't work when you have public utility level infrastructure that costs billions to install. Once google has a firm hold on the market I could see them lobbying against net neutrality as they have in the past.
Its an issue where I don't see a clear right answer. I favor whichever keeps internet cheap and fast. I also believe some of these issues could be addressed if we actually enforced anti-trust laws.
"Boy ya'll want power, God I hope you never get it." -Senator Graham
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Silicon Valley companies can be hurt if we stand AGAINST net neutrality
08-20-2017, 09:30 AM
Domains need to be legislated to either declare themselves as public spaces or private spaces.
A declared public space means that the operator cannot restrict third party content but also cannot be held liable for that content.
Conversely a declared private space means that the operator CAN restrict third party content but can also be held liable for that content (slander etc).
Technically if some asshole says white people are evil in a Youtube video I can sue Google (if I could find a court that would hear the case). People have successfully sued Google for simply returning search results that contained slanderous information about them, even though Google was only dredging basic news article descriptions into their search result.
Roosh for example could run a search of his name and if Google returned something, even on the tenth page, that claimed Roosh was a rape advocate then he could sue Google for slander, even though the reference was simply pasted from a left wing blog run by an anonymous cat lady. The premise being that anyone who googled his name would be confronted by this slanderous information. Whether google intended it or not has been proven in several cases to be irrelevant.
It would be relatively easy to engineer such results and if a common precedent was reached in the courts then the search engine giants would be absolutely begging to have first amendment protections put in place. The key would be holding your elected representatives to making sure that freedom of expression trickled down to the end user.
The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
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Silicon Valley companies can be hurt if we stand AGAINST net neutrality
08-20-2017, 12:24 PM
My conspiracy theory is that all of these tech giants like facebook and google secretly are pushing for the removal of net neutrality while virtue signaling publicly, supporting it.
A couple points to consider:
1). They would actually stand to benefit as the removal of net neutrality would raise the barrier of entry for new competitors
2). There is no way that with all the lobying power the companies that claim to support neutrality have, that the battle should even be close. Its essentially all giant tech companies against a few ISPs.
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Silicon Valley companies can be hurt if we stand AGAINST net neutrality
08-20-2017, 01:38 PM
We've not heard of ISPs shutting people down over hate speech because net neutrality laws prevent them from doing so*. Removing net neutrality will simply add another tool to the enemy's arsenal in its battle to silence the right.
*It's also much harder to figure out which ISP any given "crime-thinker" is using and pressure it, compared to finding out the web host or domain registrar.