Quote: (06-17-2017 05:44 AM)The Catalyst Wrote:
^People who are depressed/suicidal generally aren't rational, otherwise they wouldn't be in that position
I don't buy into the theory that life in our society is so great and wonderful that the only way anyone could possibly want to choose suicide is if they were irrational. Society is sick and there are a lot of misfits who conclude that it's not worth being a part of it.
There are also a lot of slow and socially acceptable forms of suicide that people resort to. For example, people will eat to the point of obesity, knowing that it could shorten their lifespan, and society looks at that as normal ("No fat shaming!") Or damaged chicks will have unprotected sex with everything that walks, and that's fine ("No slut shaming!"), even though they could catch AIDS and die. It was
proposed that overeating be added to the DSM, but probably the reason that didn't pass was that we have a lot of fatso shrinks, politicians, etc. who don't want to be labeled mentally ill.
There's a lot of stuff that happens that people don't even recognize as suicidal. For example, when Timothy McVeigh or Dylann Roof killed a bunch of people, knowing that they could get the death penalty, that bordered on suicide, yet they weren't found to be irrational. What about the Jihadis who get caught planning suicide bombings? The government sends them to prison or Guantanamo Bay instead of a mental hospital.
Quote: (06-17-2017 05:47 AM)Tex Cruise Wrote:
I know what you're getting at Jean, and you're right. But if you were to tell some already suicidal bitch that she should just kill herself then (repeatedly), and the court had proof of this from texts or whatever... I'm pretty sure we wouldnt be seeing any posts from you for a long, long time.
It's hard for me to imagine telling someone, "You should kill yourself," because it always has to be up to the individual. People have gone through some horrific stuff, like getting disfigured in the Iraq War or
having a chimpanzee eat chunks of their body, and still decided to live. All I would ever do is say, "Here are some options I can think of for how to improve your life, but it's up to you what you want to do."
It's highly unusual that anyone would ever say, "You should kill yourself" because usually people will just dissociate from you if they don't like you and therefore wouldn't mind if you died. Your friends are usually your friends because they like you, and therefore they don't want to lose you, so they won't advise you to kill yourself, even if you're suffering. The furthest I might go is to say, "I can understand why in your situation you might feel suicidal" because I know what it's like to fall into despair.
Okay, maybe I would go further than that. There have been a couple times when someone was suicidal and I said, "Well, if you're ready to go, here's a reliable and painless way," and put a method right in front of them. When it was presented like that as an imminent possibility, it caused the conversation to suddenly shift from their talking about why they should die, to why they should live (e.g. "I have to stay around to take care of my dog" or "Let me see if my situation improves over the next few months"). Maybe Michelle Carter should've claimed, "I was just trying to use reverse psychology to get him to not kill himself!" But I guess the law doesn't understand those subtleties.
It reminds me of how people ask red pillers, "Wait, you're against girls being sluts, but you teach how to game girls; isn't that a contradiction?" And our response is usually, "We don't have any magical game that would seduce a good girl. If she gets seduced, it's because she wanted to be seduced." But if her parents find out she had sex, she'll cry and say, "He seduced me!" because she doesn't want to take the blame. The parents certainly don't want to blame themselves for raising a girl who ended up becoming a slut, so it's easier just to blame the men who seduced her.
Same thing with suicide. If someone kills themselves, people want to find someone to blame, because they don't want to blame themselves for being unsupportive friends or family members. Society certainly doesn't want to admit that it's so dysfunctional that people would prefer to off themselves. So they go looking for a scapegoat.