We, in the West, celebrate ancient Greece. Yet in ancient Greece, young-old homosexual or at least homoerotic relations were more the norm than not. Men held women in awe (eg, reproductive powers) and disgust (eg, madness - hence, "hysteria" or madness in the female was linked to childlessness caused by the Wandering Womb).
A buddy of mine (raised Presbyterian, turned atheist) is doing scholarship on ancient Greek thought. I asked him about this fact, and he said he wakes up every day...wondering what to make of it - he doesn't know.
Having grown up in a family experiencing incest-rape and suicide relating to all this, I must tell people that it is much too much easy to turn harsh and judgemental about anything close to paedophilia and incest. (In my family's case, its roots were much much more about emotional twistedness - disorders of personality - than anything inappropriately sexual. The first was the cause, the second was an effect - people love to confuse the two and go "AHA! How evil...." tisk, tisk.)
For example, take Harvard psychologist Susan Clancy, an expert on memory and cognition, and her book "The Trauma Myth: the Truth About Child Sexual Abuse and It's Aftermath." Her published findings that child-adult erotic contact - contrary to established opinion for over two and a half decades - is relatively rarely traumatic to children or youth. (Rather, it is the aftermath and "treatment" that messes more folks up.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Clancy
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Clancy rejects the model that the trauma of sexual abuse is the main cause of damage [to children]. She argues that most children are not physically hurt in sexual abuse, and indeed often cooperate with their abusers. They may enjoy the attention they get and the rewards such as toys that their abuser gives them. There is rarely physical violence or even threat of violence. Regarding the sexual activity, which is rarely penetrative, children may not like it or may have mixed feelings about it, but their primary reaction is confusion: they don't know what is happening and the abuser does not explain what they are doing or gives a confusing explanation.
....It is often problematic because clinicians are so wedded to the trauma model, that all sexual abuse must have been traumatic at the time, but this does not fit well with many people's actual experience and the treatment is not only unhelpful, but can be harmful.
http://metapsychology.mentalhelp.net/poc...ok&id=5692
Now, consider what happened to Clancy at Harvard after the Femi-nazi's cast her career into Hell (
http://www.incae.edu/en/research-and-kno...ancy.php):
Clancy so outraged the PC and feminist all male-lust-is-EVIL! (as well as the much less powerful religious right), that she resigned from Harvard and escaped to do field work in Central America, since her book came out in 2010.
If one studies social science at all, one knows that the least reliable opinions are found about the "taboo" - beginning with sex itself. Add in the Ultimate Taboo of incest (or child sex abuse and whether it is or it isn't), and anyone seriously investigating the subject is tossed into the swamp of the least reliable sets data of all!
Now, BELOW, let me return us away from indulgent judgmentalism and into the useful matter for us who worry about Islam's inherent xenophobia at the bottom....
Quote: (03-16-2017 12:43 PM)911 Wrote:
Quote: (03-16-2017 12:13 PM)Lime Wrote:
911 it is much more nuanced than that.
He was homosexual and he wanted less paranoia about sexual relations between old & young (young could very well mean 16+ here, the legal age of consent). I don't say I advocate this but he isn't seen as an advocate of pedophilia here, maybe you overreact a little bit. It wasnt that he supported child molesters or something AFAIK.
Fact is, is that he made previously 'racist' stuff more mainstream.
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Fortuyn was effusively positive of his own molestation at age 5.
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In 1998, Fortuyn published an autobiographical work called Babyboomers, the name given to children born in the post-war years up to 1953. He reveals that he had early sexual experiences with adult males, which he claims to have found pleasurable and exciting. His logic is that because he enjoyed sexual experiences with adult men as a child, it should be legal.
Fortuyn's first experience occurred when he was five years old. "The Dutch soldier asks if I want to see his tent. That's what I want. I like it...
Most telling is his appraisal of these memories. "In chapter 1 about the 1950s, I wrote about my early sexual experiences, experiences that I see as an enrichment. Today, an experience like that in the ppark could easily lead to a complaint by parents to the police because of paedophilia, and the relevant young man would be in trouble. But why?
..."He didn't do me any harm. On the contrary, he showed me something that was incomprehensibly exciting and I could feel and touch it, but today we are ready to interfere with complete teams of professionals. By interfering in such an irritating and grown-up way in the world of children, we make an enormous problem of something that for a child is no problem at all and is only exciting."
The guy was a definite pedophilia advocate, and was most likely a pedophile, the kind that thrashes Moroccans in public and molests little brown boys on the down low, like the ex prime minister of Belgium.
....From my research into incest, the two societies that most accept and known to practice incest today are Japan and most (or many?) Islamic nations.
Think about that fact: they are also the most xenophobic nations or peoples. And both have active (or recent) histories as militarized societies.
Coincidence? Incest and xenophobia? - the fear of different peoples? And violent, martial societies?
As far as I can tell, the correlation is unexplored, much less acknowledged.
On the surface, it suggests a great deal of explanatory potential because incest reinforces group loyalties. It also rewards patriarchal dominance.
By contrast in the West, following the rule of exogamy - marrying outside the family - and cementing that tradition with a widely practiced incest prohibition, implies the ground word for the extra-tribal association that evolved into the nation-state system that dominates the world today.
Does an absence of incest prohibition make pro-social nationalism weaker in societies like Muslim ones? (Up to 60% of marriages in Egypt involve first cousins.) And Japan (10% incest)?
I don't know the answer, but answers to piercing questions like these are seriously needed today, I think.
What do you think?