Great thread.

Relevant quote from the man himself:

Quote:Roosh Wrote:

Can you use internet game? Does internet game work? Yes, but let me ask you this: when you message a girl on the internet, are you nervous? But if I tell you there’s a Russian model in front of this building and I want you to go up to her right now without a line in your mind, would you be nervous then? Any time you need to overcome your fear or anxiety, you level up as a man. Just keep that in mind when you’re swiping on these gay apps for an hour. (Laughter, clapping.) I refuse. I don’t care, guys, if you say “No Roosh, Tinder in this city is great!” I refuse, because I’m not going inflate the egos of woman and make the existing problem even worse.

What I don't get about online dating is how are these dodes getting these women to show up?

I'm actually talking to women face-to-face, flirting, and building comfort, yet roughly 90% of the numbers I get fizzle out and don't show up on the date (even ones who touch me, compliment me, etc). I've heard the same from seasoned dons with 50-100 lays.

So how are these guys consistently getting dates with women online who they've never even uttered a word to in front of their face? Or are they completely lying? This doesn't add up.

^^ Because a lot of the girls online are straight up sluts, are lonely, or have mental issues and need comfort/attention.

I believe most of the claims guys make about banging a lot of girls from online dating.

Some of you guys who bash online dating or apps make me wonder ...

Were y'all were picking up 10s during the payphone era?

Quote: (12-04-2016 09:51 PM)Schlep Wrote:  

Not trying to derail the thread but, I think tinder doesn't have anything to do with it.

You busted your ass for how long to achieve your goal of becoming location independent. I think your lonely and tired of having the same conversations over and over. Tired of going on the same kinds of dates over and over. Plus, the need for male companionship. Maybe you think about marriage and miss your family.

If I'm wrong on these assumptions then I apologize.

Hey man, I just saw this. I do have a beef with tinder for all the reasons mentioned in this thread.

But you are right about the other things:

I'm tired of having repetitive conversations and dates with different girls. Lately I've been breaking the "rules" and doing different things on dates (like going on mountain hikes and long beach walks during sunset without banging her first, for example). Sometimes it feels strange to connect with a girl without putting my dick in her, but it does break the monotony.

I crave boys nights and go whenever I can. Occasionally, I even cancel dates in favor of going out with the boys.

I miss my family. Thanksgiving Day sucked.

I do think about marriage every now and then, but not in a real hurry yet. Right now I'm in no position to support and raise a family -- yet, financially wise. But I do think about it, in terms of where will we raise the family, how much it would take for me to integrate into her culture, or even the question of bringing her back to the US.

I think that's a whole another thread.

Let's keep this one about Tinder.

Quote: (12-05-2016 08:21 PM)McCarthy Wrote:  

Oh wow. Sometimes I forgot how it was for me before learning game: pathetic thirsty beta I was. Thanks for reminding me, I did not realize how much of game I was already applying on tinder. And also, how much easier may it have been for me for being tall and foreigner.

Tinder may not be that easy after all for most of men. It has probably done much harm than good for most of them.

As long as you learn from your mistakes and change your ways, you'll be good.

Absolutely some of the things you learn with online gaming can be applied to in person gaming.

Tinder isn't easy for some men because it's all about aesthetics in the beginning, BUT if you're decent looking or average, it won't so bad for you.

I believe it's actually helped guys who have approach anxiety (in a slight sense) especially when it comes to rejection. However when it comes to dating, I'll talk more about it below.

Quote: (12-05-2016 08:24 PM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  

Online dating has sadly nearly destroyed real life dating.

It has caused men to become even more beta and reclusive while causing even the most ghastly women to have limitless options (a 400 lb. woman with warts can log onto her dating profile to find 50 messages/day from desperate dudes).

Very sad state of affairs.

It has it's pro's and cons - the average guy gets his eyes opened to the amount of sluts on there and girls who claim to be innocent.

You're right 5's act like their 9's online, which is hilariously sad, just yesterday I saw a landwhale demanding she only wanted 6'+ guys online which was laughable.

Yes, a woman opening Tinder is like opening a bagful of dicks, I've even said these words literally to women on dates. (Which gets the laughing and gets the convo sexual)

There are plenty of thirsty guys on there - BUT there are some guys who work the system in their favor, guys who are on here for example see through all the bullshit, have a target rich environment, and then pipeline these girls and double book them for dates.

Quote: (12-05-2016 08:42 PM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  

What I don't get about online dating is how are these dodes getting these women to show up?

I'm actually talking to women face-to-face, flirting, and building comfort, yet roughly 90% of the numbers I get fizzle out and don't show up on the date (even ones who touch me, compliment me, etc). I've heard the same from seasoned dons with 50-100 lays.

So how are these guys consistently getting dates with women online who they've never even uttered a word to in front of their face? Or are they completely lying? This doesn't add up.

How do they get them to show up ?

Easy: Match>Comfort>Number Close>Text/Call>Comfort>Plan Date>Meet>(Maybe 2nd Date)>LMR>Bang

Pretty easy formula to follow.

They aren't lying at all, they just know how the system works and exploit it as much as they can.

Once you get a girls number, you stand out above most the rest of the guys she matches with.

Women are texting creatures, a word never needs to uttered until you actually meet them. (I got out of my way to at least called them once or twice before we meet, gets them comfortable and laughing, and I see if we'll mesh) I'd say all the girls I call appreciate the fact I called them to introduce myself.

Honestly, theres no challenge anymore in getting a girl to meet me, the only challenge is getting them into my bed or retaining them as a plate.

Take a look at the Tinder App thread - tons of useful info.



CleanSlate - apologies for derailing your thread, I just wanted to address gents questions.

I almost caved.

After getting seemingly nowhere with day game and converting dates to bangs, I was this >< close to firing up that tinder app.

After about 25-30 approaches, I had a few leads I texted with and pitched for dates (in the rest of the approaches I was blown out in less than a minute or two).

And finally, last night I banged one of the girls I had met through day game earlier this week.

thread-11951...pid1460395

I quit Tinder a long time ago. So very few LTR quality women, which is what I look for. Plus the attitudes of girls who use Tinder in the USA reflect their constant cock hopping. Decent girls look at Tinder and recoil. The attitude problems, flaking, fake photos, bots and other assorted bullshit make Tinder a complete waste of time. Social circle game is still king if you want to hook a quality woman.

Every time lose faith in Tinder/Badoo it's like they know it and send me a gift so I will keep using it and creating revenue for them (I'm talking in my home city, not poosy paradise destinations).

I hardly opened it for weeks, matched with bangable girls but weren't excited about them and the conversations were boring. They just weren't worth the effort. In September/October I had much better results in clubs.

Then I had some shitty nights out and decided to stay home and I was swiping and chatting for a good part of an day - and WOOSH I literally got a date with a 19 year old blonde model the next day.

So, a Tinder break once in a while is not a bad idea.

Good thread, I've touched on this as well. Have dabbled in everything over the years but a majority of my bangs up to present were from online. I quite Tinder et al for most of this year and did what I could to hit the next level. Most importantly, the quality of girls pulled in real life, for anyone who puts the work in, is much better than online. A majority of human communication in person is nonverbal - tonality, body language, the dance of eye contact and so on. In the apps all she has is your pics and a brief bio. On OKC, POF, well, you know... I found myself downgrading standards online because I so infrequently matched with girls that I would even bother approaching in real life. When I go up to a girl on the street or in a bar I'm not giving her the chance to swipe left until I show her that I've got the balls to do something that only a fraction of men do, follow up with some humor, build rapport, and ask for her number. You can't transmit presence or vibe through text, especially if you're nexted before you get a shot.

Experience with approaching and interacting with people in real life comes across in other areas as well. Years ago I'd be nervous walking into a business meeting to face a group of higher ups, getting my ego crushed a few thousand times in approaches did away with that.

Look at the state of the current American male. Most are what we'd call beta/delta, but every one of these guys can "approach" online, and with a little bit of training can pull from there. Not to single him out, but Subterfuge who posted on page one came here having almost no success in extensive night approaching, fired up Tinder and was having girls over to his house within a week.

I fired up Tinder few times the last month myself and got a few matches but stopped talking to them, it feels like a chore sitting there in a hotel staring at a screen, boring and mechanical. There's no approach anxiety online, but with some reprogramming that becomes the thrill of real life approaching. People get anxiety before they go skydiving as well and most of us would take that over a day on Tinder.

I've occasionally wondered what RVF meetups would look like in a decade if online continues to gain ground. Would the next group of forum members meet at a bar and swipe at Tinder together while ignoring the table of honeys 10 feet away? It's not thinking we're "too good for it" to say that's not what being a man is about. Sure online has it's place, but don't limit yourself solely to the screen.

I'm back to using tinder. Will probably continue to alternate with and without tinder/online, depending on the circumstances.

Quote: (12-09-2016 01:36 AM)Gorgiass Wrote:  

-snip-

I've occasionally wondered what RVF meetups would look like in a decade if online continues to gain ground. Would the next group of forum members meet at a bar and swipe at Tinder together while ignoring the table of honeys 10 feet away? It's not thinking we're "too good for it" to say that's not what being a man is about. Sure online has it's place, but don't limit yourself solely to the screen.

Gorgiass I 100% agree, even I can get anxiety when talking girls in a new city on vacation. (I was also wasted and coked out of my mind, so that obviously had alot to do with it).

If I'm in a social environment with friends, it isn't hard to approach.

That's why I always clearly state, apps are supplemental - we need rejection, egos checked, etc to become more humble and LEARN.

Quote: (12-13-2016 02:04 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

I'm back to using tinder. Will probably continue to alternate with and without tinder/online, depending on the circumstances.

What made you go back Slate?

I have never used Tinder

Quote: (12-13-2016 12:33 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Gorgiass I 100% agree, even I can get anxiety when talking girls in a new city on vacation. (I was also wasted and coked out of my mind, so that obviously had alot to do with it).

If I'm in a social environment with friends, it isn't hard to approach.

That's why I always clearly state, apps are supplemental - we need rejection, egos checked, etc to become more humble and LEARN.

No shame in that, I get anxiety every time. Until the fifth drink kicks in. Part of the fun.

kaotic, I went back because I never intended to quit tinder forever. Online has its place, but it's not something I want to rely on as a crutch. Hence this thread.

That said, I used tinder only one day this week and for barely 30 minutes. Last night I went out briefly and made an approach, talked to this girl for half an hour. Couldn't pull her back, but at least I put myself out there and that's what matters.

Quote: (12-05-2016 08:47 PM)zoom Wrote:  

^^ Because a lot of the girls online are straight up sluts, are lonely, or have mental issues and need comfort/attention.

I believe most of the claims guys make about banging a lot of girls from online dating.

I was just reading this...that the majority of women on Tinder (other online dating apps/sites) are solely looking for attention or Instagram followers and have zero intent of actually going out with dudes they meet on there.

it's not a challenge, I used all kind of dating websites and apps and deleted them all the time, it's like porn or drugs, you know it's wrong and will fuck you up but still use it. Online dating is meeting people that you were not supposed to meet. Delete this crap, it's not part of the evolution, it's not meant to be part of our lives, it's for sick people and same with facebook.

Quote: (12-15-2016 02:04 AM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  

Quote: (12-05-2016 08:47 PM)zoom Wrote:  

^^ Because a lot of the girls online are straight up sluts, are lonely, or have mental issues and need comfort/attention.

I believe most of the claims guys make about banging a lot of girls from online dating.

I was just reading this...that the majority of women on Tinder (other online dating apps/sites) are solely looking for attention or Instagram followers and have zero intent of actually going out with dudes they meet on there.

I wouldn't say the majority, but definitely some of them have no intention of meeting.

Quote: (12-15-2016 09:22 AM)cbased Wrote:  

it's not a challenge, I used all kind of dating websites and apps and deleted them all the time, it's like porn or drugs, you know it's wrong and will fuck you up but still use it. Online dating is meeting people that you were not supposed to meet. Delete this crap, it's not part of the evolution, it's not meant to be part of our lives, it's for sick people and same with facebook.

You're dead on.

Online dating is part of this beta revolution (guys trending towards being as reclusive as possible and not confronting their fears). Far easier to hide behind a computer/phone screen than grow a ball sack and approach girls in the flesh.

There's also the fact that online dating is essentially softcore pr0n.

I feel like tinder is at the point of diminishing return in the U.S.. It's still effective but not like it was even a year ago. Actually trying to run game on a girl at a bar or on the street can pay big rewards because they're so used to guys just trying to do it ALL over the phone.

I think it presents opportunity - the more people get used to online dating/game, the more badass the real thing is

Cool especially as you recently provided another helpful review of Vietnam. I'm glad you can give an accurate comparison of other Asian countries you have been to with things the same.

I agree that it is good to have a balance. If you are like me, the challenge of day game and the success of your last librarian story feels so much better than what happens with online.

What brings it home is completing a date with an online girl and then going somewhere and seeing a girl so much better looking than your internet date in public that is alone, say shopping in the grocery store. If you focus only online, you will never be able to approach her.

Plus the great thing about public approaches instead of online is that everything is laid bare right in front of you. No headshots or flowery profile to be disappointed later.

It's all stripped down to that moment. You have to be ready at all times. I like that as it gives you more self respect. When you step out the door be ready for when the opportunity approaches.

The good thing too is that if there is no chemistry or it's going nowhere for you or her, you know right away. I find success online is about seeing issues before they happen. Otherwise it can be a huge waste of time. If it's not going to happen for me or her I want to know early. Mainly looking for red flags early to save time.

I agree that mixing things up is the way to go. My plan in the coming year is a month on and a month off. Even if I'm in the States or traveling. Jan 1 i'm off too.

When I am online I agree to keep it to a minumum. Depending on where you are certain days and times are much better than others. Focus on those times even when you decide to get back online I have found to be a huge time saver and much more fruitful.

Great thread as usual Clean Slate.

Quote: (12-14-2016 10:30 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

kaotic, I went back because I never intended to quit tinder forever. Online has its place, but it's not something I want to rely on as a crutch. Hence this thread.

That said, I used tinder only one day this week and for barely 30 minutes. Last night I went out briefly and made an approach, talked to this girl for half an hour. Couldn't pull her back, but at least I put myself out there and that's what matters.

The problem with tinder is it opened up girls eyes to how much dick she has access to. It depends on the area but in the US it made everything non tinder much harder and made girls raise their standards to levels they don't deserve. Women do not think logically so if a girl who is a 6 has tons of guys who are 8s offering to fuck her in her head she thinks she can land an 8 to marry her and take care of her. So she's on tinder repeatedly getting pumped and dumped and holding out for that magical unicorn guy.

Ten years ago girls went out to bars and clubs and got dunk and met guys to go out with some later time or went home with them to hook up. At the end of the night it was easy to find a girl because her time was numbered if she wanted to hook up. These days she knows she can probably go home and hop on tinder and get any guy she wants to come over and fuck her off of tinder so no pressure at finding guys when they are out. Girls also will go out to bars and message guys on tinder to meet them instead of talking to guys there.

The good thing about tinder is it's efficient if you have a system down and know how to use it right (I'm sure most guy's dont). It's great for getting easy bangs (not in the US) but if you're searching for a LTR tinder is the last place on the planet to look for reasons I mentioned in the first paragraph.

What happens if stupid dating apps raised the value of approaching ... but there are also few girls worth approaching when "out"?

Sigh.

[A: Practice for the right time, when opportunity meets chance. OR ... for the 3rd world.]

LOL

Quote: (12-15-2016 09:22 AM)cbased Wrote:  

it's not a challenge, I used all kind of dating websites and apps and deleted them all the time, it's like porn or drugs, you know it's wrong and will fuck you up but still use it. Online dating is meeting people that you were not supposed to meet. Delete this crap, it's not part of the evolution, it's not meant to be part of our lives, it's for sick people and same with facebook.

Agreed. Finding yourself staring at tinder literally begging for it to deliver you another 'present' is a dark low point I think most of us experienced.

Online dating teaches you passivity and incompetence.

Quote: (12-06-2016 02:15 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

Hey man, I just saw this. I do have a beef with tinder for all the reasons mentioned in this thread.

But you are right about the other things:

I'm tired of having repetitive conversations and dates with different girls. Lately I've been breaking the "rules" and doing different things on dates (like going on mountain hikes and long beach walks during sunset without banging her first, for example). Sometimes it feels strange to connect with a girl without putting my dick in her, but it does break the monotony.

I crave boys nights and go whenever I can. Occasionally, I even cancel dates in favor of going out with the boys.

I miss my family. Thanksgiving Day sucked.

I do think about marriage every now and then, but not in a real hurry yet. Right now I'm in no position to support and raise a family -- yet, financially wise. But I do think about it, in terms of where will we raise the family, how much it would take for me to integrate into her culture, or even the question of bringing her back to the US.

I think that's a whole another thread.

Let's keep this one about Tinder.

Would you make another thread? Or PM?

I'd like to hear more of these thoughts.

G