Injunjoe, I know what you are going through. I was also raised in a fairly strict (Irish) Catholic household. 2 of my uncles are priests, I went to Catholic grade school, and an all boys Catholic high school. Learning how to talk to women without any fear is the first step. Like the, "I give zero fucks what this outcome is" type of mentality when talking to them. It's game. It's having fun with it. When I had that mentality it was easy. But going back to your faith. Yeah it's hard. But what helps is slowly letting your family and friends figure out that you are talking to women. If your folks give you a hard time, make light of it. "But mom, if I don't go out and try to find a nice girl how else will you ever get grandkids?" or... Bring up how the church would love to have more Catholics running around in the future. I'm sure you get the point.
As far as your uptight friends, play it along the same lines. Tell them all about talking to girls. If they give you a hard time ask them if they are joining the priesthood or convent.

Game is so crucial to inner development. Its a constant set of hurdles to always better yourself. Like the others said develop yourself mentally, socially and physically. The pieces will fall into play, then you put them together.

You don't have to be 6'3" Chad "Alpha" Thundercock, but you do have to be the best version of yourself, but with that mindset. You are making the right steps. Keep pushing forward. Sometimes you fall over those hurdles. You gonna quit because you fell and skinned your knee? Or do you pick yourself up and keep going?

Besides I don't think Jesus likes quitters!

I had the same problem for a lot of my high school life. A couple girlfriends and dates that didn't go anywhere, a sense of despair for the long term. Let me tell you straight up: Game's flipped that on its head. If it wasn't for Roosh and Heartiste and the people here, I don't know what I would have done. As it stands because of them I can get the kinds of women I want for what I want with a little effort. I'm certainly not an expert but hell if I'm not a lot better off because of game.

Game doesn't even stop at hitting up girls either. I'm a lot more confident in the day to day, when doing things like giving speeches, and all sorts of Other stuff. Sure the rejection you'll go through at first will sting, but it's like an investment. You spend what you have now to make a profit later, and the profit you'll make from game is huge.

Haha thanks for the response, Snowplow. I've actually brought up that argument to my mom many times. She always just looks at me blankly then shrugs, even though she really hopes to be a grandma one day. I they just haven't thought through the implications of their thought processes. My friends aren't CRAZY uptight, and I don't think most of them would stop being my friends, but they would view me as immoral if I actually slept with anyone (i do have a few female friends who I am not interested in romantically, and vice versa, and they would be horrified).

Also, thank you Firesword, good to know you overcame the despair.

One thing I did is I had a good friend who was quite religious as well. We would set a time and a place for a double date, say two weeks in advance. Then, I would go and ask someone, and he would do the same. Because the pressure was on, I was forced to talk with girls and get it set up. I would just approach a classy girl that I thought was attractive and told her what we were doing. Being a double date, it took a lot of the pressure off of her. It was fun to see who could get the better looking girl. Both of us found our future wives that way.

Good advice from snowplow above.

Employing KISS methodology (keep it simple stupid):

Keep improving.

Be congruent.

Over time and many failures, you'll improve. We all need to keep trying, testing ourselves and keep going, don't let anyone tell you different. You'll also learn to care less (in a good way) about women and realize what they are, their nature.

Nice going Jim Johnson. Thanks Kidtwist.

Hi InjunJoe95,

The question is: "Do you want to live or not?"

The love of a beautiful feminine girl, freely given, is an experience that is part of being a man. A man who dies without having received this has never truly lived.

Game not only increases your chances of attaining this, it also strengthens you as a man, making you more resistant to feminine manipulation. It also helps make you the kind of man that women want to have.

Don't be so fixated on 'game' as such. You worry about being ostracized etc. by your social group for 'practising game' as if 'game' is some kind of religion. Don't think of it as something special that you do, think of it rather as just talking to girls. Game means that you talk to girls effectively.

Now get out there and do it - it's your life and the best of luck to you.

we shouldn't see game as some huge expense or sacrifice, it is actually a lot of fun and the risk isn't that big.

I too had a religious upbringing that probably helped make me a shy timid man later on. I can sympathize with having mixed feelings about the morality pumpndumping a bunch of sluts. Here's the thing though, almost every girl is a pumpndump slut now, you aren't going to meet a virgin girl from generations past that can be courted in a traditional way and married, not unless you're a mormon or a hardcore catholic and part of a circle where they keep their daughters forcibly sheltered. Most girls have at least 5 notches before they turn 18 now, and in most places your choice is to fuck sluts or don't fuck at all.

Thanks Rockoman and Silver_Tube, good points.

Quote: (12-07-2016 10:40 AM)InjunJoe95 Wrote:  

Haha thanks for the response, Snowplow. I've actually brought up that argument to my mom many times. She always just looks at me blankly then shrugs, even though she really hopes to be a grandma one day. I they just haven't thought through the implications of their thought processes. My friends aren't CRAZY uptight, and I don't think most of them would stop being my friends, but they would view me as immoral if I actually slept with anyone (i do have a few female friends who I am not interested in romantically, and vice versa, and they would be horrified).

Or humid?



You would be surprised how much the good girls like "bad boys" they will act horrified, but it's probably cause they got a little moist between the legs and it short circuits their beliefs. Hamster overload!

Hmm good point. Also 10,000 bonus points for the Archer gif.

I have actually tried talking to some very attractive girls at my church. The only problem is their personality doesn't quite match their looks. Have you ever talked to a girl who was so unengaged in the conversation, that you felt like you were drying up? Like they don't even know how to talk to a guy, not do they care to try? I can't tell if they're shy, or if they just don't like me, or both. I kinda just leave them alone at this point, because I feel like any further attempts will make me look desperate. I'm sure my game inadequacies have something to do with it, but man, they're like icebergs.

Quote: (12-07-2016 02:46 AM)kartik13 Wrote:  

Far from a game denialist but im definitely a realist not a idealist. I have a understanding of human biology and I grew up around players that never needed a internet forum to "game women". Ive been talking to women since kindergarten, and Ive taking the advice of men that of done unbelievable things with women. Being a player was just the tip of the iceberg, I spoke with men that were pimpin women for real. I'm just pragmatic and believe in creating strategies that can increase the probability of success with women. I don't let my ego interfer with reality as well. I wish everybody the best of luck and great success in this field. You don't have to be a stud to date women. If you read what I posted earlier I debunk the whole tall handsome only gets laid bullshit. But were all products up for grabs on the dating market, and we have to accurately market/sell ourselves to the opposite success. Ive seen some amazing things when people do things the right way.

Agreed there were preselected factors even before we see the woman we want. We do need to sell ourselves to the best our ability, but also not give a shit about the women who reject us just on aesthetics alone.

But your approach to it on this thread albeit was a little defeatist with that specific line Rhyme quoted above - especially for trying to help raise a guy out of his doubt about game.

That's what I was getting at (and of course teasing a bit).

Welcome to the forum.

Those "good" girls you know are most likely hypocrites, tons of girls fuck the alpha and pretend to be virgins afterwards.

You know the "conservative" girls who always seem to stay single? Don't believe a word out of their mouth. Good girls get married by 23 at latest. And they bang before marriage as well but pretend otherwise.

Canopus linked to my Christianity thread in the Deep forum. I raise a lot of interesting questions about Christianity and sex, and I even found errors on the Vatican's website. I think Catholicism is especially corrupt, the Papacy is a heresy and so many Popes, especially the current one, have been blasphemers. False prophets.

The bottom line is you can use game to be perfectly moral and only search for a wife, but you'll find that 99/100 women will just use you for sex anyways. We're living in a fallen world but remember it is the intentions which God Judges us by. If you use game with good intent but you still rack up a notch count of dozens, how can you be blamed?

"Good girls get married by 23 at latest."

So true. I am a strict Mormon, my wife is as well. She was 23, why so old? she had to serve a mission first.

They want sex, just like any other girl. If they need to be married to get it, they will get married.

Good Point Samseau, thank you.

I admit I'm confused in matters of religion, and I feel pretty unhappy because of it. I'll at least agree with you that Francis is not an exemplary man, to put it mildly.

Quote: (12-06-2016 10:35 PM)kartik13 Wrote:  

Buddy,

This is the red pill, to say that this factors don't matter is completely oblivious to reality. A man's height for example any man under 5 "9" in a western country will have a harder time then his counterparts that are 6 foot and above. But regardless you will still find short guys that are successful. A couple of friends I have are shorter then me and one of them has banged alot of chicks, the other one keeps attracting women and i'm 5"10". Also for reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLbOllSDQ1c

Your weight: A healthy body weight will attract more women then being scrawny or overweight/obese. That's common sense. But regardless you can still find a few fat guys that have some confidence/charisma or are good looking that pull women.

Race/ethnicity: You can prefer to Roosh V's article http://www.rooshv.com/totem-pole-of-race-attractiveness
Certain races/ethnicities are preferred more than others especially in western countries. No surprise you see a lot of Indian and Asian guys on this forum. Regardless you can still find these guys achieving success with women
because they have a strategy for success.

Your Looks: Common sense Handsome, Good Looking guys will do better than average and unattractive men. If average and unattractive men are into body building, have status, confidence/charisma, and money then the tables can turn.
The truth is you can take one of these avg/unattractive men and maximize there aesthetic appearance for them to become more attractive. So they wont be unattractive or average looking anymore. The right haircut can go a longway.

Social skills: Is the individual a extrovert or introvert. What's the level of self confidence, and charisma of the individual. The rest yeah you already know.

Location: http://www.rooshv.com/15-factors-that-de...at-for-men

Nothing is higher than the truth, and selling someone politically correct lies will only lead to dissapointment and failure. Maybe i worded my response wrong but overall i think everyone should learn "game", but certain factors do play a part in determining a individuals success.

Not sure why everyone is getting angry at you, but you are right. These factors do matter A LOT and before you can hit your stride, this is what you have to work with.

Quote:Quote:

Not sure why everyone is getting angry at you, but you are right. These factors do matter A LOT and before you can hit your stride, this is what you have to work with.

You don't get it. Nobody said those things don't have an impact or factor into the results you will get.

However, I fail to see how pointing this out helps the OP.

1. Be attractive
2. Don't be unattractive

My mind is blown!

Yes, you want to optimize your appearance.

Yes, you want to dress well.

Yes, you would do better as 6'4 chad thundercock.

So where does that leave OP if he's not chad thundercock?



I really can't believe how many times I've had to reiterate this same point. I guess some people are so stubborn and / or hungup on externalities that they want to project those same insecurities onto others. Let it go man, you'll sleep better.

What's with all these "red pill" game denialists? MGTOW losers

Quote: (12-07-2016 03:56 PM)churros Wrote:  

What's with all these "red pill" game denialists? MGTOW losers

You might wanna give the thread another read. Not sure why 'looks mater' draws out this kind of useless critique. It's a like a dog whistle around here. But yes, my friends, your looks do matter.

I'm going to reiterate -- your looks matter quite a bit. And in fact, taking it a step further, girls will reject you for your looks. It's common sense. Not every girl will be into your looks OR game. Guys like you are intellectually dishonest because the latent purpose of us making these claims is TO seek improvement in these areas.

Can't talk to girls? Learn game.
Look ugly? Dress better.
Skinnyfat? Lift.

Acknowledging this and coming to terms with it helps guys out. Calling them losers does not.

Doesn't mean much to me. Guys will continue to debate this long after I'm gone.

Quote: (12-07-2016 01:37 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Those "good" girls you know are most likely hypocrites, tons of girls fuck the alpha and pretend to be virgins afterwards.

You know the "conservative" girls who always seem to stay single? Don't believe a word out of their mouth. Good girls get married by 23 at latest. And they bang before marriage as well but pretend otherwise.

I seem to remember a lot of chatter here awhile back about religious girls getting fucked in the ass just to save their virginities.

If that's not the definition of hamstering, I don't know what is.

''Don't think of it as something special that you do, think of it rather as just talking to girls. Game means that you talk to girls effectively.''

Yeah, it can be kind of confusing.

You hear people say 'learn game!!' as if it's like learning rocket science. It's just talking to girls. Basically most guys have at least some game. Most men don't die virgins. There are a couple of little things that you can call 'game' like knowing how to deal with shit tests for example that can help, but I kind of cringe when people make 'game' out to be some magical thing that can get you any girl you want. Looks is a HUGE part of it, like it or not. (ESPECIALLY with cold approach). In a way 'game' is just to help you come across more socially skilled and charismatic and this is also something that girls value, so obviously it's important.

When you watch lots of FULL infields, you see that the people who are supposedly experts at game are just having normal conversations, similar to what a normal guy would do who has never heard of pickup. There aren't magical secret lines and techniques that make seducing girls as easy as pie

So if you are a normal guy, you probably don't need to 'learn game' but I would recommend approaching girls which is more about being brave than having game. Approaching random girls is something that most guys just don't do.

Makes sense; thanks subterfuge.