I say this because the typical guy on RVF(and other places) seems to be independent, doing his own thing, not really into doing the social circle kind of thing. Also, relative to the average guy, we have higher T levels and thus have a higher sex drive, likely because of all the working out and eating healthy.

The typical cliche is that guys and girls can't be friends because the guy is secretly plotting to get in her pants all the time. Let me make a few things clear- I do believe the typical beta wants to bang the girl, unless she's gross or he's religious/gay. I also believe the girl doesn't want the guy and she subconsciously realises this and wants to string him along. I also believe the beta is too uncomfortable with his sexuality to communicate to girls a sexual vibe.

However, a recent experience has really shaken that worldview I had. I hadn't really been a social circle kind of person, so I took the redpill at face value. I caught up with a bunch of beta Christian guys at a cafe, I knew one of them beforehand. I had nothing going on, so I talked with them. In the conversation, one of the guys was casually talking about the dates he had with many different girls. He was actually the most alpha/dominant/socially savvy in the group. I believe someone else brought up the topic, so it's not like he was trying to brag, he was saying it matter-of-factly. He did talk about how much he enjoyed the dates. A little later, still related to the topic, I was talking about dating and sex, and then it became obvious that while not judging me as a non-Christian for my beliefs, they clearly all believed in no sex before marriage. Ie he didn't bang any of the girls he went on dates with and still enjoyed it.

Another of those guys was actually talking about how bad his experience with sex was. Apparently, a "9"(I don't know if I can believe his ratings) made a move at him at a party. So he "slipped" and regretted it after because he would be breaking her heart and all. And it really messed him up because sex was something that was sacred yadda yadda. I was listening trying to keep a straight face. Later, he said how he mainly has female friends because he relates to them better than male friends.

All of this led me to think. Yes, I know they're Christian so they're different from the rest of the beta non-Christian guys. But I can't help but think that betas really like having a social circle and part of liking social circle is liking females in it, just as friends. They also seem to have a much lower sex drive than me. So to me it seems perfectly logical to me that they are totally fine, and in fact enjoy, female friends in a non-sexual way. RVFers don't like female friends because they're sick of the drama- but beta social circle type guys don't care about the drama. Thoughts?

Beta males who get friendzoned convince themselves they like having the girl as a friend even after they get turned down. They're in denial that they are fine being platonic friends.

My friend was trying to date this girl for the better part of 6 months. He ran typical beta-nerd-virgin game, consisting of lots of texting where she dumps her problems on him, him buying her food etc. Around 3 months in, I tell him if he wants to date her, he's got to act quick because you can't wait too long. He was too pussy to clarify to her that he waneed to date her, so he told me that he liked how their relationship was and didn't want to ruin there friendship, but eventually he would want to ask her. Fast forward another month or two, and surprise, she rejects him when he asks her out. He tells me about it and I tell him to forget about her and that there will be other girls he could date. But no, he insists that he wants to be friends with her. Everything after when I would drink with him, he would end up drunk texting her whining about how he likes her and bullshit like that. Hes desperate to date her, but she simply only likes having him around because he provides her with validation. To this day, he genuinely believes that he can still win her over by being a good friend to her.

The short answer is no.

The long answer is, the guys who think they get something out of the friendship have yet to enter into a phase of their lives where they are banging multiple chicks. Once one of these guys has been there, if he is intellectually honest with himself, he will realize what little value women bring in the form of "friendship".

The calling card of betadom is thinking women have much else to offer other than their reproductive value, and all the frames of mind that are an extension of this falsehood.

It's plain to see, from the other side, that the guys who are platonic friends with women and value those friendships are 9 times out of 10 being played for fools in some way or another, while she subtlety or blatantly strings them along while taking Chad's cock.

The only cases where a guy can benefit from friendship with a women is one where she wants to bang him, and he is using that leverage to achieve some other end.

I did some beta orbiting in high school. The answer when it is happening is yes. Just having an attractive girl talk with you and be in your company is sometimes enough, especially when you don't believe anything more is possible.

Girls have boyfriends and girlfriends.

If you ain't fuckin' her, you're her girlfriend.

Quote: (10-15-2016 07:15 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

I hadn't really been a social circle kind of person, so I took the redpill at face value.

What's the chance that redpill guys have every aspect of life figured out? Any belief system, including redpill beliefs, needs to examined. Do the beliefs match up with what you observe in the world? Too many people adopt someone else's belief system and take it as gospel.

Quote: (10-15-2016 07:15 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

A little later, still related to the topic, I was talking about dating and sex, and then it became obvious that while not judging me as a non-Christian for my beliefs, they clearly all believed in no sex before marriage. Ie he didn't bang any of the girls he went on dates with and still enjoyed it.

You'd be amazed at how few people actually practice what they preach. Maybe he's never had sex, but if he was having sex with all these women, it's likely that he'd be saying the exact same thing.

Quote: (10-15-2016 07:15 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

Apparently, a "9"(I don't know if I can believe his ratings) made a move at him at a party.

They're always 9s or 10s. I suspect 3 or 4 of those points are "she like me points".

Quote: (10-15-2016 07:15 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

I was listening trying to keep a straight face. Later, he said how he mainly has female friends because he relates to them better than male friends.

My hunch is that he says that because he doesn't want to admit to others and especially himself that he's secretly hoping to bang all of them. For all the moralizing that some Christians do, they are still human. They still have biological urges that are stronger than any morals their priest told them.

Quote: (10-15-2016 07:15 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

RVFers don't like female friends because they're sick of the drama- but beta social circle type guys don't care about the drama.

Some posters here don't like female friends. Not all, there's no blanket rule. Personally, I think it is possible to have female friends but the dynamics are a lot different to having male friends. And you definitely don't want to be friends with a girl in the hope that you'll get sex from her, that shit almost never works.

In some sort of religious vacuum where there is an assumption that no sex is going to be taking place between any of the attendees then female attention is the surrogate for fucking, and the guy getting the most female attention is by definition the dominant male.

This is the only basis I can determine for a guy genuinely enjoying the company of women, although biologically there will be some serious chemical issues going on upstairs that may lead to mental issues later in life.

Alternately some guys are just soooooooo omega that they inherently understand that sex is never going to be on the table and their limited intellects are more suited to female topics of conversation. They have in essence neutered themselves and consigned themselves to be "one of the gals". It might be confusing to see them with other male friends until you realise that there's such a large pool of these men in society nowadays that femmi-men can easily find other femmi-men to hang out with as well.

This is why you hear guys talking about how they "really want to go out" with a girl they know. Sorry, what? Don't you already go out with her?

"Yeah... but..."

So what it is you actually want, sport? Co-habitation? You want to find a two bedroom apartment and share bills while she has boyfriend elsewhere?

"No... what I mean is..."

Yes they like having them because they usually can't handle being around very masculine male friends without burnout or throwing a bitchfit.

They need breaks and feel good around chicks that console them emotionally.

Beta orbiters by definition aren't looking for platonic friendships with girls.

Almost all of my female friends were either girls my friends were dating, or girls that were really into me, but I wasn't going for them, and they were happy just being around me. I don't mind that if they're not a pain in the ass.

I'm pretty suspicious of guys who have a strong preference for female friends.

Quote: (10-15-2016 09:07 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

Beta orbiters by definition aren't looking for platonic friendships with girls.

Almost all of my female friends were either girls my friends were dating, or girls that were really into me, but I wasn't going for them, and they were happy just being around me. I don't mind that if they're not a pain in the ass.

I'm pretty suspicious of guys who have a strong preference for female friends.

Okay, I was probably using the wrong term. I meant betas who have platonic friendships with girls.

The reason I ask is about a good third of social circles or more have mixed guys and girls. I like to think I have a good read on people, and it does not seem to me that the betas are sneaky about it. Am I supposed to think that a third of social circles would fall apart like that *clicks fingers* if the betas realise sex isn't on the table no matter what? To me they seem to genuinely like girls as friends.

The other thing people have mentioned is how female friends don't offer them anything tangible. The argument I would suggest is that it's you who thinks that- the betas don't think that. They are friends with many people- lame guys who aren't worth a damn, unattractive girls, etc. It's more a case of how high your standards are for friends. The more of a social circle person you are, the lower your standards are.

So if you aren't a social circle person, looking in, you think the beta is "getting played" for attention and time. But personally my guess is the beta isn't getting played because he's perfectly happy with what's happening, a large part because of how low his sex drive is.

I was thinking about this the other day, I was in a store and this young ish girl, early 20's was being followed around by this pimple faced beta. This girl was an etched in stone 9/10 if not higher, perfect ass with yoga pants and legs for days, honestly it would have been worth a rape charge right there in the store but anyway I kind of laughed to myself cause this girl has this guy on a leash and she won't even give him a taste, she won't even make out with him when they are drunk...... he can hover hand her in some facebook picture or be that guy in the corner that's half way out of the picture, that's it.

He is probably wanking to her right now thinking about how they brushed shoulders..... or is that me? Anyway I don't think there is any hope for this guy unless they combine some Captain America shit with RVF propaganda on loop.

'honestly it would have been worth a rape charge right there in the store'

Speaking as a beta orbiter, the answer is no. I like to wait until the time is right and the planets align before busting a move. The truth is us betas are deathly afraid of rejection. It is better to be an alpha meteorite than a beta orbiter.

I will say that there are some objectively attractive women that other men would drool over, that just don't attract me. Everybody has personal tastes, where one mans 6 is another man's 8, and vice versa. I think if you work with a girl like this, or go to school with her and you're in her social circle due to these kind of circumstances, you could hang out like friends, and think she's a cool person, without wanting to fuck her, even though she's objectively hot.

Too much red pill

WIA

Quote: (10-15-2016 07:43 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

The only cases where a guy can benefit from friendship with a women is one where she wants to bang him

The only cases where a guy can benefit from friendship with a women is one where she wants to get banged by him.

Fixed.

Quote: (10-16-2016 10:31 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Too much red pill

WIA

How much is too much? I made the point that 9/10 of guys who are friends with chicks are orbiters. I think that's accurate. There is the WIA's out there who can be a friend to a hot chick and not be an orbiter, and not pine after them and possibly maintain some level of platonic friendship, but would you rely on her in a pinch?

My point was that the vast majority of guys in these situations aren't WIA's.

There's nothing wrong with having female friends. You just have to understand that they won't be loyal in the way some male friends will be. I have a female friend who's company I really enjoy, more than all of my girls. Her company itself is value to me. There's obvious sexual chemistry, but I don't want to go down that road with her because of certain complications, nor she with me.

It depends a lot on how you define female friend. I see value in female friends if the female friend provides me with something of value. A true female friend wants me to get laid. Even if she's not fucking me, she'll encourage females she knows to fuck me. But a female friend can provide other things. My female massage therapist cured my carpal tunnel, and I do consider her a friend. I've also considered women I've worked with friends.

If you didn't have any female friends then how would you develop social circle game?
In my view, there are different levels of girl friendships:
1) Obviously, one reason to be friends with a girl is because she is attractive, and you enjoy her company, and she has attractive friends she can set you up with. You may be slowly working to sleep with her or it may take several months.
2) You are co-workers, classmates, neighbors, church friends, etc. - just platonic friends due to circumstances and life situations in non-sexual activities.
3) She is not attractive, but enjoyable to be around and a good person to talk to and get advice from, as well as having hot friends.
4) She's friends with your sisters and family members.
5) She's already married or dating someone else but you know her through her boyfriend or through work.
6) She's rich or a socially connected and entertaining person that can help get you into cool parties and fun events.

I think its fine becoming friends with lots of women, and working the angles for your personal gain and benefit, or enjoyment. The problem comes with Beta Men with One-itis who get rejected and un-reciprocated love. In many cases, its the Alpha man who has lots of Females lusting after him as friends who want to hang out in hopes of something more.

"I have a female friend that I do not want to fuck. Is this beta?"

Think about this: other than girls, beta-males are the next category in society that desperately needs attention and validation.

A lot of guys cant have that validation from other guys because they have spent their entire life worshipping the other sex, or because they are wimp and cant stand "bro-talk" or other aspects of male socialization. These guys find it much easier to get validation and companionship from females.

So they might think they genuinely like it, but thats a pity. They will never know the meaning of true brotherhood, of friends who will actually be there for you.

Quote: (10-16-2016 01:23 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

Quote: (10-16-2016 10:31 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Too much red pill

WIA

How much is too much? I made the point that 9/10 of guys who are friends with chicks are orbiters. I think that's accurate. There is the WIA's out there who can be a friend to a hot chick and not be an orbiter, and not pine after them and possibly maintain some level of platonic friendship, but would you rely on her in a pinch?

My point was that the vast majority of guys in these situations aren't WIA's.

Your conception of female friend is wrong. Redpill 101 is that women and men need to be treated differently. What can a chick do in a pinch? Get our her pom poms and cheer for you? That's about it in an emergency.

For some reason red pillers seem to forget that when dealing with chicks that they aren't fucking/able to fuck/don't want fuck.

There's an infinite and myriad amount of uses for a hot chick that you aren't fucking. Just don't take them out for dinner or pay for their shit

One of the worst game advice I ever heard was, be her friend first.

The word "orbiter" from my understanding already suggests that they are sexually interested to their female friend(s).

But if if you said do beta men actually like having female friends non-sexually, then I would say maybe and yes... because there are occasions where a female is offering value to you but you are not sexually attracted to her... like your female co-worker.