Quote: (06-30-2016 12:25 AM)HonantheBarbarian Wrote:
With that being said, and without bringing too much controversy to this thread, a few of the general criticisms I remember from him are that we, as a community, throw away pussy too easily. We are too eager to next girls that don't comply exactly to our demands. According to his outlook our overall style of game is too passive and generalized. Also, I have heard him mention several times that there is an undercurrent of woman-hating here and that we have an unhealthy outlook towards females in general.
Where we view this as a strength (bitch ain't gonna waste me time/dollars/logistics) he sees us as ignoring opportunities to grow.
While I agree that hyper focusing on game is optimal for getting serious skills, and probably the best route, a lot of guys in the general population just don't have the time or logistics to make that happen. The basic methods espoused here give everyone from all walks a starting block to get some skin in the game. And I think that has value and merit.
That's true. That's because he comes from PUA community where the game is all about conversion. It's almost a synonym. All the tips and tricks, routines, systems, methods, techniques are created for that main purpose. To create opportunities on your own instead of taking an advantage of easy cases. To see the girl you want and win her with your game in spite of resistance, skepticism, shittests, tough scenarios, etc.
Remember that "complicated" thread about muslim girl? He would jump in and post a essay about what the guy can do and literally diss in between the verses everyone who said to next her cause it's a hopeless case with no chance as he knows that OP could do this, this and this. That's the pua mentality he comes from. I understand it. This is why he shits on what manosphere teaches cause he views is as wattered down pseudo game advice for "civilians" who just want to taste a little bit what game is, find semi decent chick who already likes them and keep her to have it handled.
Quote: (06-30-2016 09:22 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
And I really blame Manson for the "don't deal with girls that test you" mentality.that pervades the 'Sphere. Roosh never said that. Roissy was famous for how to deal with tests in a pithy manner.
Ya makes the case for tests being
1) indicators of interest
2) opportunities to turbo charge her little flicker of interest.
And this was a key aha for me
3) players are baiting a test because he can surprise her unconscious with some game jujitsu.
My subconscious knew this was true, but I hadn't articulated it. I have never thought of myself as a natural, but after a while your game goes on autopilot and you learn without having to be taught. But if you don't keep getting instruction or trying new stuff...well...
The other thing that he gets that I think all modern game is missing is that it's about pushing her buttons. And not by humble bragging about your making a bird house from scratch with your sustaining woodworking tools.
That's Manson stuff is the worse game advice ever in my opinion. I have no idea why this book is so popular but I get the feeling that just by the fact that it IS that popular explains it all. The notion of "nexting" is popular too in the sphere and I have no problem with it but again, the actual game in original sense is not about screening and nexting cause that's what every other dude does. Every dude goes in [if at all], tests the waters, seeks green lights, and stops at yellow ones like a nice decent car driver. That's not game, that's just being a dude.
[I'm preaching to the choir WIA, I'm speaking to all now]
Whereas game is where you can shine in social pressure. The old school technique is provoking shittests on purpose just to be able to deal with them and amp the attraction to the highest level. There was a saying in the community that all you have to do is pass the shittests. Which has a lot of truth to it. But again, this is advanced stuff, you need to have it all broken down, think quick on your feet to deal with unexpected as well as have scripted moves and answers, have emotional strength, etc etc. This is why you see some pick up guys doing outlandish things and you don't get it why they're doing it. They want to push the chick to the edge [figuratively speaking], keep her there for a while and bring her back to normal, how they want it and when they want it. That's why.
Quote: (06-30-2016 11:43 AM)456 Wrote:
I think what Ya and WIA and others have really been bringing to the surface is how much action / choice / direction WE can make. It's been said already -- use roadblocks and obstacles to level up, experiment, or roll out the time-tested weaponry on these girls.
Yeah the real beauty of the game is that we have MUCH MORE ammo to use in our advantage than dressing well, posting up, shooting witty/snarky comments, looking, and hoping she will come with us.
To me the most scary part is that we already have everything we need to play the game the best we can and it's actually easier than we make it so the thought that now we don't have what we want out of our intimate life stings our ego and lower our self esteem. Like I remember when I didn't have shit and I was crushing it.