It's funny because it's true.
I've made all these mistakes.

WIA

Quote: (07-20-2016 02:41 PM)XXL Wrote:  

What I see...

1. Seeks for or force an overt eye contact or some sort of crystal clear approach invitation
2. Goes up with confidence generated by girl's signal
3. Talks about get to know each other stuff mixed with some timid flirtations here and there
4. Switches to comfort talk and tries hard to seek any commonalities
5. Waits for perfect moment, asks for number, leaves right away with trophy number
6. Games her over the phone crafting perfect texts all day all night

Quote: (07-20-2016 06:15 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

1. Approach as confidently as possible
2. Make her laugh
3. Switch conversation to commonalities
4. Ask for her number.

Agree?

WIA

No. Do not agree. You should only ask her number in three circumstances:

1 - While making her laugh, or in the middle of all the interaction.

2 - If something completely unexpected occurs (eg: her friend is being kicked of
the club or bar for puking in the balcony)

3 - After sex.

Try to do not end with asking her number, only if there is no other option (point 2). A number by itself is worthless. Though, very interesting and thoughtful opinions in this thread

Quote: (07-20-2016 03:15 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

It's funny because it's true.
I've made all these mistakes.

WIA

Quote: (07-20-2016 02:41 PM)XXL Wrote:  

What I see...

1. Seeks for or force an overt eye contact or some sort of crystal clear approach invitation
2. Goes up with confidence generated by girl's signal
3. Talks about get to know each other stuff mixed with some timid flirtations here and there
4. Switches to comfort talk and tries hard to seek any commonalities
5. Waits for perfect moment, asks for number, leaves right away with trophy number
6. Games her over the phone crafting perfect texts all day all night

Do you suggest that the next level of game is either a) deciding to make instadate or b) playing a long game without a number, and not caring about normal social interaction, just entertaining, challenging conversation with a girl (to create attraction)?

Let's say you are in the gym and you just approach because you don't care, why not. What, WIA, should be your "goal?" Or is there even one?

Quote: (07-20-2016 06:15 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

1. Approach as confidently as possible
2. Make her laugh
3. Switch conversation to commonalities
4. Ask for her number.

Agree?

WIA

I think they actually leave out #4 a fair bit of the time

I think #1 is actually not what the 'average guy' does in reality (unless they are really drunk). By that I mean cold approaching individual women or sets and/or acting confident & casual and not stressed one bit about escalating.

I actually think the average guy default game is really just to 'see what happens' at the bar/club etc. and hope that they are in a choke point where they can strike up some kind of casual conversation. Or they buy bottle service or something to 'let the girls come to them.' The confident guys who approach types seem to be pretty few and far between at least in my experience. But maybe I'm misunderstanding the gist of the post a bit (?)

Quote: (07-21-2016 03:44 PM)Akula Wrote:  

Quote: (07-20-2016 06:15 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

1. Approach as confidently as possible
2. Make her laugh
3. Switch conversation to commonalities
4. Ask for her number.

Agree?

WIA

I think they actually leave out #4 a fair bit of the time

I think #1 is actually not what the 'average guy' does in reality (unless they are really drunk). By that I mean cold approaching individual women or sets and/or acting confident & casual and not stressed one bit about escalating.

I actually think the average guy default game is really just to 'see what happens' at the bar/club etc. and hope that they are in a choke point where they can strike up some kind of casual conversation. Or they buy bottle service or something to 'let the girls come to them.' The confident guys who approach types seem to be pretty few and far between at least in my experience. But maybe I'm misunderstanding the gist of the post a bit (?)

That's a good critique.

In actual practice,
- a large number of men are wishing and hoping, but doing nothing

- most guys aren't cold approaching strangers
- they approach girls in class, at gym, at work, and at school. Some nexus between social circle and a warm approach.
- a whole lot of guys, I'd say a good chunk of the young North American population is online

What I'm laying out is how a lot of guys *think* game works.

Good catch, iron sharpens iron

WIA

What ever this whole conversation adds up I will say anytime my game has been at its best is through pure volume.

My buy-in's aren't good, I don't even feel like selling cause I am fuckin' tired of it. You won't see a lot of witty texts coming from me I am just thinking how I fit this chick in my schedule.

Will I be too tired? Should I have invited another girl over for a repeat? Shit it was a Wed. when I got her number and texting on a Friday is lame, do I wait til Sunday? Will this new chick not fit in my scheme next week?

I have 2 apps on my phone New Digits and Alarms. New Digits gets the girls number in historical order so I don't have to remember who the 8th Amanda or Alexa is. Alarms is to go through the roll call each night after work and text bitches at different stages in the sex funnel.

I am so bothered with my own operation I don't have the mind to give her world much concern.

I have better results here than if I had one girl on the side and it's been 2 months since I did an approach and I get "full buy-in" with my tremendous cold read and slightly too long handshake with strong sexual eye contact while not giving my name before she asks.

I think the lesson I have learned more in Game that isn't sexy and doesn't sell books or get blog clicks is approach more girls, cycle more dates, and numbers.

If you "don't have the time" you are handicapping yourself by worrying too much any one interaction or how the play ends.

I think unless you approach 30 girls a week you should even't bother on your process. It will start fixing itself with that much volume anyways.

Now if you did this for a month (120 girls) and got no new bangs and learned nothing now is the time to think about process.

Guess what I never met a guy that did this in real life and didn't start teaching himself or automatically improving. It is a boogey man that doesn't exist in my view.

Forcing yourself to hit on that many attractive women gives you great motivation to get in better shape and dress better. And if you are going through that many girls and fucking some the next girls in the funnel sense that.

^^^ totally agree with the 'abundance mentality' angle you're putting out there and in my experience it's been the same. It's as much about spinning plates and ending up looking like you don't give a damn because you kinda don't (i.e. you're too busy) and have so many potential options you don't ever get hung up on one. Then you start getting texts from girls saying "hey you forgot about me" or asking to meet up and it just snowballs.

That leads into an interesting segue - namely, I think in the past the 'average guy's game', even if they are 'acting confident' and following WIA's script mostly, has been hindered a ton (obviously) bc most guys just don't play the field but rather focus on 1, maybe 2 girls at a time. Sometimes even stone cold player types. I think that has changed a lot in the past decade or so maybe, but even now I still think a lot of guys just are happy having a girl to date or 'girlfriend' and don't have more than 1 or 2 'hooks in the water'. So the 'script' doesn't work if you don't have volume.

^ 100%.

I takes a good amount of willpower to juggle 5-15 active phone numbers over a month span+ on top of your normal schedule.

I think anything less though is playing Tee Ball instead of the Majors.

Your game can't possibly come to near the same level without that sort of volume.

It is like saying I am training to fight in the UFC. My training will be sparring once a week for an hour and concentrating on each detail of the kicks and punches I throw. Then that's it til next week.

Quote: (07-20-2016 06:15 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

1. Approach as confidently as possible
2. Make her laugh
3. Switch conversation to commonalities
4. Ask for her number.

Agree?

WIA

No, I must disagree..

This is significantly above average.

Let me explain..

Quote:Quote:

1. Approach as confidently as possible

Average guy is not approaching "as confidently as possible"..

In order to approach as confidently as possible -- A man must fine tune his diet and body sculpting routine..,

In order to approach as confidently as possible -- A man must work to craft a better "look" with style more congruent with his natural way of socializing.

In order to approach as confidently as possible -- A man must approach in VOLUME!

Averages guys do not do this.

They don't cultivate and curate their confidence.

Quote:Quote:

2. Make her laugh

Average guy can't consistently make girls laugh!

Spontaneously, out in public, as part of a cold approach!?!?

That is an above average skill!

If a man can consistently and repeatedly approach with major confidence AND ALSO MAKE GIRLS LAUGH!

He ain't average.

Quote:Quote:

3. Switch conversation to commonalities

This could be good or bad..

Talking about common interests can be effective..

But, it has to be done at a good time and in a non needy way, of course..

Quote:Quote:

4. Ask for her number.

I agree with this one..

Average guy asks for the number way to early and in a way that is too pedestalizing.

My opinion is that asking a girl's number is way overanalyzed. Why is it a rocket science to say: "I'd like to take you out for a walk in the next couple of days. Give me your phone number" or to take my phone out, typing the first two digits (always 07 in Romania) and giving her the phone to continue typing the number? For me, it's the easiest thing in the world.

Quote: (07-22-2016 07:18 AM)Zanardi Wrote:  

My opinion is that asking a girl's number is way overanalyzed. Why is it a rocket science to say: "I'd like to take you out for a walk in the next couple of days. Give me your phone number" or to take my phone out, typing the first two digits (always 07 in Romania) and giving her the phone to continue typing the number? For me, it's the easiest thing in the world.

I feel as if you missed the entire point of this post

WIA

Giovonny is right, as always. When you spend so much time trying to be above average, you forget what average is really like. Your standard for what is average naturally becomes higher than it used to be.

Quote: (07-22-2016 07:27 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Quote: (07-22-2016 07:18 AM)Zanardi Wrote:  

My opinion is that asking a girl's number is way overanalyzed. Why is it a rocket science to say: "I'd like to take you out for a walk in the next couple of days. Give me your phone number" or to take my phone out, typing the first two digits (always 07 in Romania) and giving her the phone to continue typing the number? For me, it's the easiest thing in the world.

I feel as if you missed the entire point of this post

WIA

IMO, it was just a side comment.

Quote:Quote:

1. Approach as confidently as possible
2. Make her laugh
3. Switch conversation to commonalities
4. Ask for her number.

Another reason why I feel this is significantly above average..

"Default"

"Default" means instinctive, subconscious, automatic..

Your "default" behavior is the behavior that you fall back on when under pressure.

Average guys don't perform well under pressure. They haven't practiced enough.. It's not ingrained into their subconscious.

Their automatic (default) behavior is not maximum confidence and girl friendly humor. Instinctive confidence and humor are above average traits..

Average guy is lucky is he can generate enough courage to talk to a pretty girl.

Quote: (07-23-2016 11:59 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Quote:Quote:

1. Approach as confidently as possible
2. Make her laugh
3. Switch conversation to commonalities
4. Ask for her number.

Another reason why I feel this is significantly above average..

"Default"

"Default" means instinctive, subconscious, automatic..

Your "default" behavior is the behavior that you fall back on when under pressure.

Average guys don't perform well under pressure. They haven't practiced enough.. It's not ingrained into their subconscious.

Their automatic (default) behavior is not maximum confidence and girl friendly humor. Instinctive confidence and humor are above average traits..

Average guy is lucky is he can generate enough courage to talk to a pretty girl.

True. But I think WIA means the Average Approach not the Average guy.

Travesty's post reminds me of this classic Roosh post:

http://www.rooshv.com/everything-i-know-about-women

Quote: (07-23-2016 12:13 PM)Kish Wrote:  

True. But I think WIA means the Average Approach not the Average guy.

TL DR - Gio is starting in a different place and coming to different conclusions.

Gio and I are clearly talking about different things.

But he's bringing an interesting element that's basically within the frame of the discussion that challenges the underlying assumptions in the first post.

WIA

Quote: (07-23-2016 02:51 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

TL DR - Gio is starting in a different place and coming to different conclusions.

Gio and I are clearly talking about different things.

But he's bringing an interesting element that's basically within the frame of the discussion that challenges the underlying assumptions in the first post.

WIA

I think i am also misunderstanding what you are trying to say, or are you saying that the average guy in the western world(or the whole world) does this:
"1. Approach as confidently as possible
2. Make her laugh
3. Switch conversation to commonalities
4. Ask for her number."
?

Quote: (07-23-2016 03:28 PM)Burn Wrote:  

Quote: (07-23-2016 02:51 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

TL DR - Gio is starting in a different place and coming to different conclusions.

Gio and I are clearly talking about different things.

But he's bringing an interesting element that's basically within the frame of the discussion that challenges the underlying assumptions in the first post.

WIA

I think i am also misunderstanding what you are trying to say, or are you saying that the average guy in the western world(or the whole world) does this:
"1. Approach as confidently as possible
2. Make her laugh
3. Switch conversation to commonalities
4. Ask for her number."
?

I clearly think it's simply laid out in the initial post

But for the average guy who wants to talk to a chick, and gets the nuts to do so (which I assumed was implied from the question), this is what goes through his mind.

My question is whether folks agreed if this is typical for the average guy. And hence the discussion going all over the place.

I'm interested in the game aspect, but I think the comments more about what we think is the average guy. And for some, what I think of the average guy approaching is far more "skilled" than what they think is the average guy making an approach.

WIA

Quote: (07-23-2016 03:56 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

I clearly think it's simply laid out in the initial post

But for the average guy who wants to talk to a chick, and gets the nuts to do so (which I assumed was implied from the question), this is what goes through his mind.

My question is whether folks agreed if this is typical for the average guy. And hence the discussion going all over the place.

I'm interested in the game aspect, but I think the comments more about what we think is the average guy. And for some, what I think of the average guy approaching is far more "skilled" than what they think is the average guy making an approach.

WIA

Ah ok, got it.

I believe in the part i bolded, what you are describing is not the average guy imo. Its a guy who approached many girls and built confidence in approaching and is no longer "the average guy".

Quote:Quote:

2.5) Don't get to know her until she wants to get to know you

As a novice, this is the hardest part for me. I do okay when I build rapport from the beginning and then interweave standard game within that structure. But, I really have no clue how to build all the attraction up front before switching to comfort/commonalities.

^I guess an easy shortcut to this would be to make statements and not ask questions.

Instead of "where do you work?", I like to play a little guessing game "I'm going to guess what you do for a living. You seem like a nurse"

This is what I've been doing. Of course there's room for improvement. I think I want to work on not having any discussions about work at all with girls I meet.

I agree with Giovonny. For me, this is the equivalent of Leo Messi saying that the average footballer is someone who plays professionally but is never exceptional and always has to grind to earn his new contract, when in fact he's in the top 0.1% of anyone who has ever played football. Obviously the 'average guy game' that El Mech posted won't put you in the top 0.1% of guys in terms of game, but you get the point.

@northern lights (and hazaer)

Attraction is built in many ways.
But you're absolutely right when it comes to sequencing. It's not easy to run 100% attraction until you get buy in. That's what the model wants you to do.

Conceptually a player is often running all three modes (attraction, comfort, and seduction,) at the same time.

The verbal aspect goes from opener to attraction to qualify and compliance, then to comfort and finally seduction. It stays largely linear.

But the nonverbal aspects start the second you get to the venue. Being in shape broadcasts attraction signals. Other people deferring to you, being with chicks, dressing well - all attraction.

The mere fact that you'd have the audacity to open her, and not be flustered is attractive. And because you're so solid in your own mind - your calm makes her calm. So without saying a word, you're running comfort game.

If you thumb wrestle her, and look deeply into her eyes - attraction, comfort, and seduction - all at the same time.

Verbally you'll be in stage 2, but everything else might be ahead....or behind.

WIA

Giovanni is pretty spot on with all points.

The average guy seems to be more concerned with his "line", his opener or how confident his approach might SEEM to a girl.

The above average guy is more concerned with his look, style, posture, etc and approches confidently because that it what he is and he has done this a million times.