Quote: (06-25-2016 11:20 AM)Architect Wrote:  

due to the increasing interest shown by foreign men to this country.

Not sure that there is an "increasing interest". It's now 25 years that Ukraine is on the "sex tourist map" (by sex-tourist, I mean not only P4P players, but all guys whose main goal is to have sex).

Quote: (06-25-2016 12:11 PM)Vronski Wrote:  

Quote: (06-25-2016 11:20 AM)Architect Wrote:  

due to the increasing interest shown by foreign men to this country.

Not sure that there is an "increasing interest". It's now 25 years that Ukraine is on the "sex tourist map" (by sex-tourist, I mean not only P4P players, but all guys whose main goal is to have sex).

I've always appreciated this distinction.

Things have been looking up recently - had an amazing day with a couple of fellow forum members at Hidropark. Completed the 100 squat challenge, swam across Dnipro River, and then entertained 2 beautiful 19 year old's on the beach. Had some beers, played some cards, and they told us stories of how they lost their virginity in the Forest. Entertaining to say the least. I pulled 4 contacts today. I have been here almost 4 months now and the progress I have made has been unbelievable from when I first arrived. So many stories to tell.

It's easy to see why Kiev/Odessa is the default RVF headquarters in the summer. I honestly don't think there's a better place in the world when you take into account the cost of living and the quality of women. There are stunners scantily dressed left and right - too many to count. This summer is going to be fun)).

This is coming from a guy who was attacked by some racist Nazi's on the metro not to long ago in Kiev. Next time you see me I'll have my head high, chin up, with a pretty Ukrainian Devushka on my arm. Cheers! Here's to a great summer

Sosa,

I appreciate your positive attitude. How did you manage to stay for soo long? 4 months? thats pretty impressive. The longest i stayed in ukraine was a week, because of my work. But I have been there many many times.

Are you trying to start a relationship with a ukrainian girl there, or are you just trying to break the record with the amount of women you are hooking up with?

From my experience, I will tell you that these girls are smart in terms of sensing things, and unless you are a movie star or support them in some way, they don't really accept being in any man's harem. By the way, I am talking about the ukrainian women who rank above 9 out of 10. The ones who rank 7 out of 10, sure would be in any strong mans harem.

You say you have many stories, I am interested in listening to them.

Quote: (06-25-2016 12:11 PM)Vronski Wrote:  

Quote: (06-25-2016 11:20 AM)Architect Wrote:  

due to the increasing interest shown by foreign men to this country.

Not sure that there is an "increasing interest". It's now 25 years that Ukraine is on the "sex tourist map" (by sex-tourist, I mean not only P4P players, but all guys whose main goal is to have sex).

The Turks have been coming here for like 1,000 years!

Guys, what is an approximate monthly budget these days to stay in Kiev?

Let's say you pay month to month for a nice small apartment with good logistics. You go out to bars/clubs but don't pay for bottle service or buy everybody drinks. You go out to eat at least once a day but avoid the most expensive places. You take girls out on dates but don't waste too much money on them. You have fun but also keep your expenses reasonable.

Basically, the cost of living for typical RVFer lifestyle in Kiev.

Quote: (06-25-2016 03:22 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

Guys, what is an approximate monthly budget these days to stay in Kiev?

Let's say you pay month to month for a nice small apartment with good logistics. You go out to bars/clubs but don't pay for bottle service or buy everybody drinks. You go out to eat at least once a day but avoid the most expensive places. You take girls out on dates but don't waste too much money on them. You have fun but also keep your expenses reasonable.

Basically, the cost of living for typical RVFer lifestyle in Kiev.

Ukraine is cheaper than anything I could have ever imagined

The kind of lifestyle you describe can be easily had for around 1,5k €/month, at current exchange rates. Leaves you with 800-1000 UAH spending money per day after rent which is more than enough to have a good time.

Quote: (06-25-2016 02:34 PM)Sosa Wrote:  

It's easy to see why Kiev/Odessa is the default RVF headquarters in the summer.

I am thinking about heading there early September. Any thoughts on what the scene is like that time of the year?

Quote: (06-25-2016 03:22 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

You go out to bars/clubs but don't pay for bottle service or buy everybody drinks. You go out to eat at least once a day but avoid the most expensive places. You take girls out on dates but don't waste too much money on them.

Quote: (06-25-2016 04:47 PM)pressplay Wrote:  

Leaves you with 800-1000 UAH spending money per day after rent which is more than enough to have a good time.

One can live with 800-1000 UAH/day, but definitely not for such a lifestyle (dating girls, dine out and go out to bars/clubs every night - and even if it's just in mid-level venues and without being prodigal). And especially if your target group is the 8's +, who know their "market value" and expect to be treated accordingly.

With this kind of budget, "good diner" would mean basic dishes in an unexpensive restaurant (with no wine -keep in mind that wine is outrageously expensive in restaurants, never less than 500 grv/bottle, this for average quality Georgian or Spanish brands) and "nightlife" a few beers in a pub or in a low-end club.

Shit, a mere Old Fashioned cocktail at The Bar costs about 130 grv (which is admittedly ridiculously cheap by western standarts - but it means that just with 3 cocktails you have spent half of your daily budget).

I don't go to clubs in Kiev, but I guess that a basic alcoholic drink costs at least 160/200 grv in the trendy spots.

Brodiaga, to answer your question, a three courses diner with wine for two, in a decent and atmospheric restaurant (but not in a high-end and money obliterating venue) will cost you about 1200/1500 grvs. From there, it's easy to do the math (IMO for your kind of lifestyle and if you avoid the most expensive places, a budget of 100 €/day is ok).

Quote: (06-26-2016 03:41 AM)Vronski Wrote:  

Quote: (06-25-2016 03:22 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

You go out to bars/clubs but don't pay for bottle service or buy everybody drinks. You go out to eat at least once a day but avoid the most expensive places. You take girls out on dates but don't waste too much money on them.

Quote: (06-25-2016 04:47 PM)pressplay Wrote:  

Leaves you with 800-1000 UAH spending money per day after rent which is more than enough to have a good time.

One can live with 800-1000 UAH/day, but definitely not for such a lifestyle (dating girls, dine out and go out to bars/clubs every night - and even if it's just in mid-level venues and without being prodigal). And especially if your target group is the 8's +, who know their "market value" and expect to be treated accordingly.

With this kind of budget, "good diner" would mean basic dishes in an unexpensive restaurant (with no wine -keep in mind that wine is outrageously expensive in restaurants, never less than 500 grv/bottle, this for average quality Georgian or Spanish brands) and "nightlife" a few beers in a pub or in a low-end club.

Shit, a mere Old Fashioned cocktail at The Bar costs about 130 grv (which is admittedly ridiculously cheap by western standarts - but it means that just with 3 cocktails you have spent half of your daily budget).

I don't go to clubs in Kiev, but I guess that a basic alcoholic drink costs at least 160/200 grv in the trendy spots.

Brodiaga, to answer your question, a three courses diner with wine for two, in a decent and atmospheric restaurant (but not in a high-end and money obliterating venue) will cost you about 1200/1500 grvs. From there, it's easy to do the math.

All this talk of spending money and investing in girls with absolutely zero guarentee of sex. I'm fucking two girls right now whose MO's on weekends is to go out with their girlfriends and get guys to buy them drinks only to exchange numbers at the end of the night and never contact them again.

We laugh about it together while we sip my cheap wine and eat cheap grocery store food that I cook back at my place after they've been out clubbing.

But please keep believing that you have to pay for everything.

Other guys' expensive drinks = My easy pussy

Quote: (06-26-2016 04:40 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

All this talk of spending money and investing in girls with absolutely zero guarentee of sex. I'm fucking two girls right now whose MO's on weekends is to go out with their girlfriends and get guys to buy them drinks only to exchange numbers at the end of the night and never contact them again.

We laugh about it together while we sip my cheap wine and eat cheap grocery store food that I cook back at my place after they've been out clubbing.

But please keep believing that you have to pay for everything.

Other guys' expensive drinks = My easy pussy

My point wasn't about "spending money and investing in girls". Not everything is about getting laid. It was about the average cost of life in Kiev, even if it's just for self.

Of course, it depends of your lifestyle - a cheapo will spend 25 €/day, and a baller 500 €/day (which is surely easy, just with a bottle/table service - for self - at D'Lux). So as usual YMMV.

Quote: (06-26-2016 04:46 AM)Vronski Wrote:  

Quote: (06-26-2016 04:40 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

All this talk of spending money and investing in girls with absolutely zero guarentee of sex. I'm fucking two girls right now whose MO's on weekends is to go out with their girlfriends and get guys to buy them drinks only to exchange numbers at the end of the night and never contact them again.

We laugh about it together while we sip my cheap wine and eat cheap grocery store food that I cook back at my place after they've been out clubbing.

But please keep believing that you have to pay for everything.

Other guys' expensive drinks = My easy pussy

My point wasn't about "spending money and investing in girls". It was about the average cost of life in Kiev, even if it's just for self.

Of course, it depends of your lifestyle - a cheapo will spend 25 €/day, and a baller 500 €/day. So as usual YMMV.

You forgot about the guy that has girls paying for him.

Quote: (06-26-2016 04:53 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

Quote: (06-26-2016 04:46 AM)Vronski Wrote:  

Quote: (06-26-2016 04:40 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

All this talk of spending money and investing in girls with absolutely zero guarentee of sex. I'm fucking two girls right now whose MO's on weekends is to go out with their girlfriends and get guys to buy them drinks only to exchange numbers at the end of the night and never contact them again.

We laugh about it together while we sip my cheap wine and eat cheap grocery store food that I cook back at my place after they've been out clubbing.

But please keep believing that you have to pay for everything.

Other guys' expensive drinks = My easy pussy

My point wasn't about "spending money and investing in girls". It was about the average cost of life in Kiev, even if it's just for self.

Of course, it depends of your lifestyle - a cheapo will spend 25 €/day, and a baller 500 €/day. So as usual YMMV.

You forgot about the guy that has girls paying for him.

So you have a bunch of 18-19 year olds buying you stuff?

Quote: (06-26-2016 04:53 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

You forgot about the guy that has girls paying for him.

It's a guy who lacks of self-respect.

Quote: (06-26-2016 04:54 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Quote: (06-26-2016 04:53 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

Quote: (06-26-2016 04:46 AM)Vronski Wrote:  

Quote: (06-26-2016 04:40 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

All this talk of spending money and investing in girls with absolutely zero guarentee of sex. I'm fucking two girls right now whose MO's on weekends is to go out with their girlfriends and get guys to buy them drinks only to exchange numbers at the end of the night and never contact them again.

We laugh about it together while we sip my cheap wine and eat cheap grocery store food that I cook back at my place after they've been out clubbing.

But please keep believing that you have to pay for everything.

Other guys' expensive drinks = My easy pussy

My point wasn't about "spending money and investing in girls". It was about the average cost of life in Kiev, even if it's just for self.

Of course, it depends of your lifestyle - a cheapo will spend 25 €/day, and a baller 500 €/day. So as usual YMMV.

You forgot about the guy that has girls paying for him.

So you have a bunch of 18-19 year olds buying you stuff?

Yes. I have eight 18 year olds and nine 19 year olds always buying me shit.

The discussion is about game and not presenting yourself as an atm machine.

My idea about Kiev: definitely one of the worst city for the usual game (or we can call it "seduction"?) as we all know as used in west or central/eastern Europe. Definitely a top spot in terms of beauties, but frankly the overall attitude is terrible.
it seems it doesn't matter if you are good looking, with a decent game and a successful person but everything is based on how much you want to invest. Girls seems to go out in the night only to ask for drinks...Different story might be if you are a Russian speaker, but it is plenty of girls that are able to manipulate the thirsty foreigners. Fortunately if you had a good experience with girls behaviors, you are able to recognize this stuff.

Quote: (06-26-2016 04:40 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

We laugh about it together while we sip my cheap wine and eat cheap grocery store food that I cook back at my place after they've been out clubbing.

But please keep believing that you have to pay for everything.

Other guys' expensive drinks = My easy pussy

Sound pretty damn boring always being stuck at your apartment because you can't afford going out.

Quote:Quote:

Yes. I have eight 18 year olds and nine 19 year olds always buying me shit.

The discussion is about game and not presenting yourself as an atm machine.

No, the discussion was about budget. You want a budget where you don't have to worry about paying for dinner or drinks if that is what you want to do.

That being said, let's talk more about what these 18 year old girls are buying you. Are they taking you out to dinner and paying for booze and food? Are you taking any girls out to dinner and they pay for half?

Some of the things you are saying goes contrary to what many of us have experienced. Heck, I would say just about everyone.

Quote: (06-26-2016 03:41 AM)Vronski Wrote:  

Brodiaga, to answer your question, a three courses diner with wine for two, in a decent and atmospheric restaurant (but not in a high-end and money obliterating venue) will cost you about 1200/1500 grvs. From there, it's easy to do the math (IMO for your kind of lifestyle and if you avoid the most expensive places, a budget of 100 €/day is ok).

Sorry, plus accommodation of course. And on average, one day could be just 50 € and the day after 150 €.

To get an idea:

* light lunch for self at unexpensive (but decent) cafe with a beer or two : 10 €
* meeting in nice cafe with three or four glasses of wine : 12/15 €
* dinner for self at mid-level restaurant with beers or two glasses of wine : 15/20 €
* dinner for two at mid-level restaurant with bottle of wine : 40/50 €
* dinner for self at trendy (but not money-obliterating) restaurant with multiple drinks (cocktail, wine, irish coffee) : 40 €
* dinner for two at trendy (but not money-obliterating) restaurant with multiple drinks : 60 € +
* dinner for two at high-end/top restaurant with multiple drinks : 100 € + (I guess)
* light night out at one bar/club with average volume drinks for self and one or two drinks for girl: 40 €
* heavy night out at multiple bars/clubs with multiple drinks for self and occasional drinks for girls : 100 € +

Rocha and his friend met some girls in a saturday night at Dlux, numbers exchanged, a meeting for mid week was arranged. I let girls choose the place, no issue, just certified that it was not a scamm shady place. On arrival and while a little la te, girls already eating, they asked if we are served, I said no and urged my friend to not order any food in this place, it was not cheap also, and I never intended to go on a dinner date.
One of the girls already had been to the US (the one for my friend), had quite a bad attitude and always texting in the Iphone, I can only imagine the quantity of chumps she must have had paying for dinners in Kiev. Mine was relatively sweet and in my opinion was aboard her friend scheme, not that it matters, but I felt sorry for her.
Meanwhile we order just some drinks, my friend a cocktail me a beer. The girls always pressing us to order food, always I politely declined, girls where eating like a bulking dude, I never saw Ukranian girls eating like that. Soup, first course, second course, drink, second drink... I gave them a warning:

- "you girls sure eat a lot"
- "we are girls, we have to eat" (my friends friend)
- "you must be joking right, I have had a russian girlfriend for quite some time and never saw her eating like that"

At this point, I notice the fear in these girls, they where dealing with an old fox all the time, I gave them all the signs, I never spoke in english with them, but they where dumb for not being able to be aware of the situation, my friend only speaks english, so that must have gave them overconfidence.

Anyway I proceeded with the charade and let them even ask for dessert, it was funny for me, I was laughing inside with all of this. Mid dessert I say to them that we have to leave to catch my friend X in some other place. I turn to the waiter and say "mozhno po chitaite pazalusta" (check), and before he leaves I say also "nashe" (ours) while pointing to me and my friend.

The look in the girls faces was priceless...perhaps one third of their monthly income spent on that meal (1500 grv or more each).

Xmoki xmoki, poka, do svydanya.... Girls left destroyed finishing their dessert...

In FSU you fuck or you get fucked, I was not going to get fucked by those broads.

19 and 18 year old girls regularly buying you gifts? What type of lie is that? You can have the best level of game, better than mystery himself or Roosh. And you can look like Arnold in his peek physically, but sorry man, no ukranian girl in their prime years would regularly buy you stuff, especially numerous ones like you write.

I went to ukraine 100 times between my mid 20s and early 30s. I dated models and i even dated a girl from miss russia. I have lots of experience there. Ukrainian girls of high beauty at their prime barely have enough money to take care of themselves let alone taking care of a foreign man who is there to get laid.

Why did you need to lie about this? I don't really understand the motif.

thats a nice story Rocha

Quote: (06-26-2016 08:14 AM)Architect Wrote:  

19 and 18 year old girls regularly buying you gifts? What type of lie is that?

Not just "some 18 and 19 years old girls", but "nine 18 year old and eight 19 year old", to be more precise.

Quote: (06-26-2016 03:41 AM)Vronski Wrote:  

Brodiaga, to answer your question, a three courses diner with wine for two, in a decent and atmospheric restaurant (but not in a high-end and money obliterating venue) will cost you about 1200/1500 grvs. From there, it's easy to do the math (IMO for your kind of lifestyle and if you avoid the most expensive places, a budget of 100 €/day is ok).

well to me it didn't sound as if Brodiaga was talking about going on dinner dates with 8s every day who "expect to be treated according to their market value". Spending 100€/day (+rent) in this city is not my idea of "keeping expenses reasonable", especially when staying several months.

Quote: (06-26-2016 09:07 AM)pressplay Wrote:  

well to me it didn't sound as if Brodiaga was talking about going on dinner dates with 8s every day who "expect to be treated according to their market value". Spending 100€/day (+rent) in this city is not my idea of "keeping expenses reasonable", especially when staying several months.

Once more my post was about the cost of life in Kiev, to put things in perspective after you stated that (ditto) "25/30 € spending money per day is more than enough to have a good time".