Hey gents,

I figured I'd detail my experiences and suggestions in this thread. There are some other decent threads about PRK but they are older and while they contain some decent information, I have a lot to add.

I am currently 18 years old, the youngest you can be to get this surgery. If you are under 45 or so, I would strongly recommend getting PRK if you are tired of contacts and glasses. I would also strongly recommend PRK over LASIK and I'll explain why below. I have worn contacts for as long as I can remember and this surgery has changed my life.

Before Surgery My right eye was -3.50 and my left eye was -3.75. Without contacts, everything was blurry and I couldn't drive or watch TV.

After Surgery I am now 4 months post surgery. I have 20/15 vision in both eyes. Some people complain about halos at night and while I have some small halos, they are far better than they were before.

Cost PRK is generally around $2,000 per eye plus a total of round $300-400 can be expected to spend on various drops. You can shop around and find this cheaper but as I explain in further detail below I would recommend against this. These are your eyes you're having surgery on and I wouldn't use a groupon eye surgeon for this.

Doctor This is another problem with flying somewhere to get it done. Make sure you know your doctor and are completely comfortable with him. I met mine 3 times in a month before my surgery. My guy had performed over 2000 procedures and taught it to countless other doctors. This made me 10x more comfortable but I only really knew he was the doctor for me when he walked in. I figured I was going to have to persuade him to PRK from LASIK but he told me that he and a group of military doctors he had trained with years ago all decided to abandon LASIK at the same time. I was really happy when I heard he only performed PRK.

What is PRK? PRK and the similar LASEK (don't confuse with LASIK) are laser eye surgery procedures intended to correct a person's vision, reducing dependency on glasses or contact lenses.

LASEK and PRK permanently change the shape of the anterior central cornea using an excimer laser to ablate (remove by vaporization) a small amount of tissue from the corneal stroma at the front of the eye, just under the corneal epithelium. The outer layer of the cornea is removed prior to the ablation.

In regards to the last part, if you've ever worn contacts, when the outer layer of your eye is taken off, it looks just like you're taking out your contact.

Recommendation As I said earlier, you can get this done cheaper in other countries and on places like groupon and while I'm sure you are all capable of making the right decision for you, I would recommend against this. The stuff you do before surgery and after surgery are what ensure you get the best possible results. You also want to make sure you spend adequate time meeting and researching your doctor to ensure he isn't a fuckup.

Before surgery My surgeon had my take out my contacts for one week prior to my initial visit. I believe the reason for this is contacts can change the shape of your eye so when they are topically mapping your eye for the surgery, your eye obviously can't be altered in anyway.

I went in and the doctor told me he saw mild allergies and a mild case of dry eye which is why I'm taking all these drops. Your eye drop and pill selection may be different from mine but I think it will probably be similar.

Eye drops before surgery I was started on a plethora of eye drops about 2 weeks before the date of my surgery. I took an antibiotic eyedrop 4 times a day, artificial tears 4 times a day, allergy eye drops 2x per day, restasis (tough to describe what it does) 4 times a day as well.

For pills, I was given Gabapentin (a drug like Lyrica) and Aleve to take 2x per day for a week leading into surgery. This is mainly for pain prevention and could be the reason as I explain later that I didn't feel much pain post surgery.

Upon researching the internet, I decided to up my fish oil dose to 3 grams combined EPA/DHA and take Vitamin C to reduce risk of post surgery corneal haze. Post surgery is very unlikely to begin with but it can't hurt.

Day of surgery Most surgeons will give you valium or ativan before you go in. Mine gave my ativan and I didn't notice anything after I took it. I stayed mildly nervous before and during the procedure.

If you are going to do this, don't watch videos on youtube of whats going to happen. I knew what they were doing pretty much the whole time from what I was reading but I didn't need any visual images. Just my 2 cents.

During Surgery You basically just have to sit in a chair and keep your eyes as still as possible. You won't feel any pain and don't worry about your any slight eye movement. I felt like my eyes may have moved but my surgeon told me I was fine and the laser can track your eye movement and it will shut off if you do anything wrong.

After Surgery I was given norco for pain but I only had to use it twice. Not because the pain was really bad but more because it was annoying and I was trying to sleep. Popped a norco and pain was gone in 5 minutes.

If you read online many people complain about pain post surgery. This may be the case for some people but I don't think most of you would have any problem with pain.

The real problem post surgery is light sensitivity. It takes a few days for your outer layer to grow back so yes I was wearing sunglasses inside. I was able to go on my phone the day after surgery for a short period but the brightness was all the way down. I didn't watch TV because it was too bright and I was too busy listening to Danger and Play podcasts but you could probably watch TV 3 days after surgery if you wanted to. I waited 4 days and didn't have any issue.

It's really nice to just lay in a dark room for 2-3 days and recover. I would recommend you either precook your meals or get someone to come over a few times a day to help with anything you may need.

Eye Drops Post Surgery If you couldn't tell, you're going to fall in love with eye drops for about a month. After surgery, I was taking antibiotic eyedrops 4x per day, prednisone acetate 4x per day, ketorolac 1x per day(its like aspirin for the eyes), and artificial tears every 1-2 hours.

For pills I still took gabapentin for a couple weeks afterwards along with aleve.

Vision Immediately After Surgery I walked in the room almost blind. As soon as I got up after surgery, my exact words were holy shit I can see. They surgeon asked me to read a clock on the wall. I hadn't even noticed that clock was there. I read the clock and felt like a million bucks. Overall, I could see pretty well after surgery and while it fluctuated a bit, there was never a point after surgery where my eyes were worse than before. Things slowly got clearer and sharper over the next week or so.

4 Months Post Surgery I see better now than I ever did with contacts. While I still do take artificial tears every 3-4 hours because my eyes get a bit dry, you may not have to do this. I would recommend it to protect against regression but my eye doctor told me the frequency that I will have to do this should go down over the next couple months.

PRK over LASIK I am not a medical doctor but I will tell you my thoughts. Both PRK and LASIK are approved for Special Operations Forces in the US military so you really can't go wrong either way. You may have special circumstances on your eyes that lead you more towards a specific surgery. If you have any choice in the matter, I would go towards PRK and heres why.

PRK takes off the outer layer of you're eye and then reshapes your cornea. The outer layer then grows back over the next couple days. LASIK creates a flap that then heals. While the recovery time for LASIK is quicker, the flap never fully heals and can be reopened at any point in the future. If you are involved with boxing or MMA, one punch to just the right spot and your flap is reopened. If I'm going to spend $4000, I never want to have to worry about anything like that. I talked to a few people online that got LASIK and while most people were happy, everyone I talked to in person wished they got PRK. PRK does include slightly more pain and a longer period for best possible vision to be attained but this is well worth it for no flap in my opinion.

Final Suggestions If you can take the time to do this, I would strongly recommend it. The PRK wiki page contains some good information. It's kind of fun to think about how nature gave me shit vision but through modern medicine I now have predator like eagle eyes. Its always fun to cheat genetics. This surgery has been around for a long time and so as long as you chose an experienced surgeon, you're risks are low. This is still a surgery so be smart and I'm sure you'll be fine and have much better vision than you do now.

Good luck and if you have any questions leave them below and I'll do my best to answer them.

Thanks for the data sheet on this, I'm actually interested in doing this since I'm -4+ in my eyes and as I've gotten older, I've grown tired of contacts.

Got PRK done in the Air Force 5 years ago. Everything OP says is spot-on.

20/15 in both eyes here as well. Before PRK my vision was 20/400.

Only complaint is my vision at night sucks. Lights are blurry/halo effect. Still way worth it.

Got PRK back in 2008, eyesight was about the same as OP, and now I'm 20/15 in both eyes, too. Couldn't watch TV until the third day.

I agree with everything the OP said about PRK over LASIK, but again, I'm no doctor either.

Continuing along the vein of "Not a doctor, but here's some anecdotal shit I noticed," I used the prescription eye drops as prescribed by my doctor, but as quickly as possible weaned myself off the use of any artificial tears (the ones that WEREN'T MEDICINE). If I remember correctly, I was off artificial tears within a couple months. Everyone's eyes are different, but whenever my eyes got dry I would just keep my eyes closed for awhile and relied on my body to do its job. I have colleagues years out from their surgery who are "addicted" to artificial tears, it's almost like a smoke break for them with the frequency with which they lube up. My hunch is their tear ducts no longer work as well anymore because they've got vaseline tears doing all the work. I haven't needed eye drops since 2008.

Again, I took all the medicine eye drops as prescribed, I just weaned myself off the artificial tears as quickly as possible. And again, not a doctor...I might just be lucky.

Thanks to the OP for reminding me that there are loads more than game to drop datasheets on!

I was considering Prk or lasik but after I found this site (and several others) http://lasikcomplications.com/PRK-complications.htm, I suddenly changed my mind. It seems too risky.
Some of the stories on the site are just horrible to ignore and go ahead with the surgery.
Some excerpts:
Epithelial cells regenerate over a period of several days after PRK; however, Bowman's membrane, which plays a vital role in health of the cornea, is permanently destroyed. Some ophthalmologists speculate that permanent destruction of Bowman's membrane during PRK may lead to late-onset complications, as Bowman's membrane is a protective barrier between the environment and the corneal stroma.
The most common complaints after PRK and LASEK: pain, haze, chronic dry eyes, regression, and night vision problems.
*
Opinion of a well-known eye care provider, Edward Boshnick:
Thank you for the information that you have provided (on the site). You are literally saving lives. There are millions of people around the world who underwent LASIK surgery and now have significantly compromised vision. Many of these problems occurred years after the surgery. There are now new specialty lens technologies available to help this population. In addition, more and more money is being invested by major contact lens manufacturers in an effort to help this ever growing population. The "anonymous" patient who wrote the above letter should not give up hope. Please know that in addition to the millions of hurt LASIK patients, there are several million more patients who lost quality vision due to other refractive surgical procedures such as R-K, ALK, CK, and PRK. As an eye care provider, my suggestion is not to get involved with additional surgeries to correct the vision and comfort issues you now have which resulted from LASIK. The risk of additional damage is significantly higher with each additional procedure.
&
One must also appreciate the fact that doctors hold an unusual position of trust in our society. When a doctor says to a patient that he or she would be a great candidate for LASIK and that this patient will not need to wear eyeglasses or contact lenses ever again and that there is virtually no risk involved, the average patient will believe this doctor unconditionally. They are asked to read the informed consent and when asked about some of the complications that may occur, so many of these patients are told that this is a formality and that this particular doctor has done so many procedures that no adverse complications has ever been encountered in that office. Of course, we now know that this was aggressive marketing by commissioned "handlers" and a lack or ethics on the part of the eye surgeon and the people around him.

For your information:
Edward Boshnick, OD, speaking at FDA Lasik Hearing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBCJ1lhUfBY

^^^
I have read that site too. No surgery is 100% perfect 100% of the time. That is why it is so important to make sure you are a good candidate for the surgery. It also stresses the importance of choosing a smart, experienced eye doctor to perform the operation. Neither I nor your doctor can ensure that you will receive the results that I and many other have gotten.

What I will say is that if the surgery was flawed it would not be approved by the FDA and the military. The military would not spend millions training people only to have them rendered useless by an eye operation. Its like this, if the military trusts the operation on Special Operations soldiers, then it is probably good for most people.

Should everyone get the surgery? No, but that doesn't mean its not safe and effective. Each surgery has its own unique benefits and drawbacks. You can decide if the risk/reward ratio is worth it to you.

Edit: A lot of those problems being experienced are from people who had LASIK. I have not had LASIK so I can't comment. You can always find horror stories if you look for them. They should be taken into account but you also have to remember the many many others who do not experience anything like that.

Not many people know this but there are also inherent risk to wearing contacts. If you are like most people who leave them in way too long bacteria can build up and if you scratch your eye while taking them out then shit you likely just got an eye infection. If you don't get it checked out and let it develop you can lose your cornea and go blind until you get a cornea transplant. My eye doctor specifically told me of 4 cases he had that week were the person had a strong eye infection and were no longer eligible for PRK. Not trying to scare anyone here but shit can happen no matter what.

Quote: (12-23-2015 01:29 AM)MiscBrah Wrote:  

^^^
make sure you are a good candidate for the surgery.

As some people joke on the said site, you are a "good candidate" if you have a valid credit card...

Quote: (12-23-2015 02:37 AM)Filbert Wrote:  

Quote: (12-23-2015 01:29 AM)MiscBrah Wrote:  

^^^
make sure you are a good candidate for the surgery.

As some people joke on the said site, you are a "good candidate" if you have a valid credit card...

That breaks the second part. Make sure you have a smart, experienced doctor. Its important to get to know your doctor. If they try to rush you into the surgery without explaining everything then you should obviously move on. If someone goes in with no research and just throws down their credit like you're implying, I have limited sympathy for them.

Personally, I would have gone for a reversible surgery that doesn't involve permanently destroying eye tissue. There are things like implantable lenses on the market already but they are still relatively new (compared to PRK) and newer tech is always in the pipeline as well. In the worst case, they can always remove the lenses. Can't do that with a laser. If something goes wrong, you are pretty much fucked.

Implantable lenses (like the Visian ICLs) are good for people with really bad prescriptions (higher scripts need more tissue removed = higher risk), already have dry eye issues/susceptible to dry eye issues, and they provide permanent UV protection for your eyes. You can also change your prescription down the line if it deteriorates. And as I said before, they can take them out and/or replace everything entirely with newer lenses if shit isn't working out for whatever reason. So if you need an updated script 5 years from now, they can give you the new script with newer technology/better lenses. It's not assumed you will have to do that but its an option that is always available. When it comes to my eyes, I want as many options as possible.

I'm glad you all had good results for the folks who have had laser surgery done but I'm just too paranoid about my eyes to do something that isn't reversible. The implantable lenses procedure has been around for about 20 years now so I'm getting pretty close to being comfortable with the the concept since there is somewhat of a lengthy clinical history behind it now. Just wanted to put this out there for those considering laser surgery and wondering about alternatives.

My personal (good) experience with LASIK for what it's worth:

I had around 5.0 or 6 miopia on each eye when I was 22, all my life I had DEPENDED on thick prescription glasses to do everything. Just out of college, and before getting a job I had the LASIK procedure done. I did my research and was aware of all the risks and even read some horror stories. I got one of the best surgeons in my country (has performed LASIK thousands of times and is the medical chief of a very reputable ophthalmological institute. Definitely not any random guy with a diploma.) He had done LASIK on acquaintances and close family. Before that, I was thoroughly tested to ensure I was a good candidate, and this doctor explained me the whole procedure in detail.

Some sources said the procedure lasts 10 years. With all things considered, I said lets do it: worst case scenario I would have to return to using prescription glasses for reading once I hit mid thirties. In the meanwhile, I would be able to free myself from those ugly thick lenses I had to wear in my college years.

Before the procedure, I had dry eye syndrome, so it added to the risks but I said fuck it. Strange thing, after the LASIK my condition improved and nowadays I rarely need artificial tears. Maybe wearing glasses all the time didn't let the eyes get proper oxygenation? I'll never know.

After the procedure I almost reached 20/20 on both eyes, and I can do everything without limitation. Nice sunglasses welcome.

Obviously, my appearance improved, and I've found women like my eyes a lot (light brown).

The risk was worth it (quality of living, no more expense in prescription glasses, improved looks).

My 2 cents.

The worst case scenario is not "returning to using prescription glasses for reading once I hit mid thirties",
it is ectasia.

Iatrogenic keratectasia / ectasia is one of the most feared and dreaded complications of LASIK. The rate of ectasia after LASIK is estimated to be about one in 2,000, but this number could be an underestimate due to underreporting and lack of long-term followup after LASIK. There are likely several thousand patients suffering from post-LASIK ectasia in the United States. The medical literature contains reports of late onset ectasia occuring several years after LASIK.

Quote: "The actual incidence of ectasia is undetermined, an incidence rate of 0.04 to almost 2.8% has been reported." Source: Kohlhaas M. Iatrogenic Keratectasia: A Review. Klin Monbl Augenheilkd. 2015 Apr 8.

What is corneal ectasia? There is pressure inside the eye called intraocular pressure (IOP), which pushes on the back surface of the cornea. A normal healthy cornea easily withstands this force. But after LASIK (and PRK), the thinner, weaker cornea may begin to give way to this pressure, leading to steepening or bulging of the front surface of the cornea with associated increase in myopia and irregular astigmatism.

I had LASIK last year, and I'm happy with the results. I chose LASIK over PRK mainly because of the recovery time and I only had to worry about eye drops for two weeks post surgery.

I had the surgery done while I was in the military, and it went down like this:

I'm the first surgery of the day, so I pop the Valium and get started. After they vacuum suck my eyes and run the laser to cut open the flap, I can feel the Doc just tugging on my eye ball.

Doc: "What happened to the equipment? Did somebody mess with the laser equipment?"

Nurse: "They did maintenance yesterday."

Doc: "Get them back here now. Cancel all the rest of the appointments until they fix this. You, go, right now. (Now talking to me) Don't worry, you're going to be fine. I just have to manually separate the corneal flap since the laser didn't cut all of the way through."

Me (In my head): "I think I should be worried about this. Oh well, if I go blind at least I'll get paid for the rest of my life. I wonder if this is why housewives take Valium?"


The surgery took about 20 minutes instead of 8, and I had to use a few more eyedrops for the first week, but my vision improved to 20/20, my night vision actually works, and this was all after a large equipment malfunction.

One of the videos, which prevented me from doing Lasik or prk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQFP8y6MmUM

I guess it's important to get the full picture prior to making such an important decision.

I had LASIK earlier this year. Surgery was straight forward, in and out as if nothing from a top surgeon.

The laser was only hitting each eye for about 13 seconds.

Perfect vision and haven't regretted it since.

Quote: (12-23-2015 01:02 AM)Filbert Wrote:  

For your information:
Edward Boshnick, OD, speaking at FDA Lasik Hearing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBCJ1lhUfBY

Edward Boshnick, OD. Notice it's an OD, not an MD. What is an OD? An OD is an optometrist, the guy who measures your sight and fits you for lenses. He is to an ophthalmologist (surgeon) what a dental hygenist is to a dentist. He is NOT qualified to perform surgery or even prescribe the full range of medications, as he is not a medical doctor.

The bread and butter work of an optometrist is to fit you for glasses and contact lenses, straight out. Corrective surgery that obviates the need for such aids is obviously not a good thing for this line of business, which I suspect plays a large part in this guy's "advocacy" against said surgery.

Aside from all that, there is a huge chasm in both training and innate intelligence between the people who go to medical school and became ophthalmologists and the people who go to optometry school and ask you to read off a chart for a living. It's pretty amusing for an optometrist to assume an identity as some sort of leading light in the field of ophthalmology when he is in fact just a glorified technician, not a physician.

^^Thanks for highlighting that. There are a couple more things Edward Boshnick overlooks and some final information I think should be added.

Waiting for surgery is a risk in an of itself. There is a chance something will happen to your eyes that will disqualify you from getting PRK or LASIK. This is more common than you may think.

There may be breakthrough surgeries but they will be new and experimental. PRK and LASIK have been around for a long time and there is massive amounts of data regarding them. New surgeries wil not have anywhere near this much data and as a result, risk will be much higher. Countless people have had PRK and LASIK and maintained the vision for a long time. My mother had PRK over a decade ago and still maintains 20/20.

PRK has already had new innovations and surgical techniques that have decreased the risks. Post surgery corneal haze used to be more of a problem than it is now. This marked decrease in corneal haze is because of the addition of intra operative Mitomycin C. Corneal haze is now rare and very unlikely to be experienced. This is just one example of how PRK has adapted over time. At this point, PRK is the safest it has ever been.

I should have put this in the original post but I will leave it here. A lot of people will start having trouble reading past age 40 or so. PRK/LASIK will not change this. You still may need reading glasses in the future.

Dean Kantis is also not an MD, but worth listening to, I guess:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl_MZzMIZgg

Another potential danger of laser eye surgery is floaters (posterior vitreous detachment)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mXMXME7uH0

There is most certainly a cause and effect relationship between LASIK and floaters. The suction ring applied during LASIK quickly raises the intraocular pressure to dangerously high levels while the flap is cut, followed by a rapid lowering of intraocular pressure when the suction ring is decompressed. This mechanical stress can lead to posterior vitreous detachment (floaters). Anyone who says otherwise is either disingenous or uninformed.

Quote: (12-22-2015 02:58 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

Got PRK done in the Air Force 5 years ago. Everything OP says is spot-on.

20/15 in both eyes here as well. Before PRK my vision was 20/400.

Only complaint is my vision at night sucks. Lights are blurry/halo effect. Still way worth it.

Regarding blurry halo (slightly off topic) anyone ever close their eyes and in that moment a light will show as a swirl of light with your eyes closed? I hope you get what I am saying. The lights are fine when my eyes are open, but if I close them quickly, they SOMETIMES sort of look like a streak of light. Mainly off of florescent overhead lights. Thanks.

^^Filbert This thread is a PRK datasheet, not a LASIK datasheet. I don't know as much about LASIK and I have never had LASIK performed on me. What I will say to you is that my buddies mom had LASIK performed and she has floaters. However, she also had floaters before. She thinks that LASIK may have made her floaters worse but other than that her vision is good. She, like most people I talked to, wished she got PRK

I generally think most people should get PRK. Everyone has a different body so thats why you talk to a doctor about which surgery is right for you. Do your research, and do yourself the favor of going to your doctor informed so you can have an intelligent conversation. Lastly, I personally would not have LASIK done unless I absolutely had to.

I had PRK at a very renowned clinic at age 19 after wearing contacts since age 11. I was -5.0 and had been stabilized for the previous year. Results were perfect 20/15.

Then over time my eyes starting getting worse and at age 23 my eyes were back to about -1.25 I had a free "touch-up surgery" PRK which brought me back to 20/15 again.

It's been about 10 years and my eyes regressed again to about 20/30. I wear corrective lenses mainly when driving and my vision seems noticeably worse at night.

Overall it's worth it, but make sure your eyes are stabilized, or you will lose some of the results. From my experience I'd probably recommend waiting until age 30 to be sure.

^^Good point, I think I left this out of the OP. However waiting till 30 is excessive. Most surgeons like you to have been stabilized for 2 years. This can happen earlier for some (me at 18) and others can take into their early 20s.

Quote: (01-16-2016 12:22 AM)MiscBrah Wrote:  

^^Good point, I think I left this out of the OP. However waiting till 30 is excessive. Most surgeons like you to have been stabilized for 2 years. This can happen earlier for some (me at 18) and others can take into their early 20s.

You're 18, even if your eyes have been stable, they might still change because you're young. Mine did.

Just giving my personal experience. My eyes didn't truly stabilize until age 30. Yes, the changes after age 22 were slight, but they did occur. Maybe it's because I spent 9 years in higher education buried in books, who knows. Just something to think about.

OP, what are some of the ways you found a solid, reputable, and experienced surgeon? I feel like Yelp isn't quite the right place for me to be getting recommendations on stuff concerning my eyes, and a search on Google turns up a dime a dozen in my city, all of which claim to have hundreds of testimonials.