Your best weapon is intuition.

Should you be in a town or city where regular occurrences of grievous bodily harm happens because of your race, religion or nationality?

Only a gun and a really skilled person with a bladed weapon can deter multiple attackers, even then how do you know you won't be set upon at your most vulnerable? What happens if it is raining and you slip?

Being in a violent area you can get out of is the best chance of survival. Weapons do not guarantee safety.

Quote: (01-07-2016 12:34 PM)MikeS Wrote:  

Quote: (01-07-2016 07:41 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

...

A knife is good (providing you have proper training)...

Assuming you're fighting a single attacker (obviously multiple attackers is almost always going to be a more complex and dangerous situation), do you actually need "proper training" to be a massive threat when you're wielding a knife?
I've read that before but I figured that some of them might mean training required so as to pose less of a threat (ie. avoiding accidentally killing someone when that level of force wasn't required)?

I remember reading a section in a self defense book once where the author said (paraphrasing) that almost anyone wielding a knife instantly becomes the equivalent of a 50th dan martial artist (simplified I'm sure, but the damage potential obviously goes up exponentially for even an untrained person holding a knife).

No, you do not need any training to be effective 1v1 with a pointed weapon. I boxed with a guy who was an extremely competent fighter, about 20 years old, and he got his lung collapsed by a 15 year old with a screw driver who was showing off to his gang. This sort of thing happens all the time. A weapon, and genuine intent to use it to do harm, make for a very dangerous individual indeed.

not from my own experience, but some football fans i ran into talked about carrying that fake lemon/lime juice that comes in a squeezable lemon-shaped bottle to matches (to spray it in the other twerp's eyes if cornered or confronted).
Also, the famed Millwall brick which can't really attract any attention from the police

Anyone here actually been attacked by a Muslim?

If you are walking around town at night (say walking a dog) and want something in your hand a big mag-lite flashlight would be good. They are heavy with the batteries in them, I'm talking like the type that cops in North America have and have them ready to bonk you on the head with.

Quote: (01-07-2016 02:13 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Anyone here actually been attacked by a Muslim?

What's the point of this passive-aggressive snark?

If you'd bothered to read downthread you might have seen this from the OP (who is an Asian guy living and working in Paris):

Quote: (01-07-2016 11:24 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Some good practical advice here. I'm not some stupid "let's stay and fight all these migrants while walking around drunk 4am near the train station" shit. But things have gotten bad around here. Lots of rascals in my neighborhood and I come back from gym and work at 9pm. My 4th degree black belt sensei got robed TWICE, and he's no bloke at all. The first time he got jumped by a big black migrants with a mace spray. The second time he got jumped by 2 muslims.

The concerns of posters who live in parts of Europe that have rapidly become more dangerous because of this insane wave of migration are legitimate. Just as there is no need to rend one's garments and declare the end of Western civilization, there is also no need to pretend that nothing is happening and to dismiss people's concerns with worthless passive aggressive questions like this.

Quote: (01-07-2016 02:13 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Anyone here actually been attacked by a Muslim?

I have.

It didn't end too well for them though.

Quote: (01-07-2016 02:30 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Quote: (01-07-2016 02:13 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Anyone here actually been attacked by a Muslim?

What's the point of this passive-aggressive snark?

If you'd bothered to read downthread you might have seen this from the OP (who is an Asian guy living and working in Paris):

Quote: (01-07-2016 11:24 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Some good practical advice here. I'm not some stupid "let's stay and fight all these migrants while walking around drunk 4am near the train station" shit. But things have gotten bad around here. Lots of rascals in my neighborhood and I come back from gym and work at 9pm. My 4th degree black belt sensei got robed TWICE, and he's no bloke at all. The first time he got jumped by a big black migrants with a mace spray. The second time he got jumped by 2 muslims.

The concerns of posters who live in parts of Europe that have rapidly become more dangerous because of this insane wave of migration are legitimate. Just as there is no need to rend one's garments and declare the end of Western civilization, there is also no need to pretend that nothing is happening and to dismiss people's concerns with worthless passive aggressive questions like this.

Damn I can't ask a simple question without being accused of passive aggressive snark? I do think it's a valid question, if no one here has experienced any eminent attacks, what's the point of being scared? Maybe I just have a different outlook on life, but I don't believe in walking around being nervous and scared about something that could happen, but most likely won't.

It seems like everyone on here is kind of scared, like there are Muslim boogey-men hanging around every corner waiting to beat people up. Maybe it is like that over there in Europe, I don't know. Dalaaran lives in France so I'll take his word on the situation, but it does seem like most of the guys whipped into a frenzy over the migrant invasion don't even live in Europe.

Well maybe once the Muslims invade Northern California I'll start packing heat, there are already plenty of Mexican here, but I'm not too scared of them.

When I was younger it was quite normal to deal with attacks. Turks or Russians. Or drunk Germans at festivals / bars. One situation was even a knife fight. But this is one form of violence. A group of young men standing somewhere and to the monkey dance. You have time to react. Or a brawl in a bar.
I remember one attack when I was like 15 or 16 and walked home from sports. Out of the sudden, an ambush a guy punched me and run away. I get also in some situations hit on the head but never get knocked out. Seems like I have a lucky condition in that way. Also never had a knock out when I had my sparring in boxing. Others slip more easy when you hit them hard. Anyway moste break their hand when they are not used to use them or slip because they can't keep the balance.

Still when somebody do a high violent ambush or attack in a group, its very hard to react in time. To switch the mind from relaxt to a defence and fight situation is even more important then actual skill or a weapon.

For those Europeans who are genuinely concerned about their safety, I'd recommend pepper spray/mace and a taser if you can acquire one, I don't think a knife or any weapon that can easily be taken away and used against you is a good idea. If 4 guys attack you, maybe you knife the first two, but the other two wrestle you down, take your knife, now you're getting stabbed repeatedly. Just a thought, but I'm no self defense or weapons expert.

1. A very bright flashlight with strobe. I have one of these (an older model) and it's longish with a heavy tactical bezel - a blow to the head will easily put someone down. I've dropped it more times than I can count and it's still going strong. ~$60 with batteries and charger. You can get cheaper ones that are almost as bright for under $30.

http://www.dx.com/p/cree-xm-l-t6-3800lm-...o64oMaFM5s



2. A ranged Taser/stun gun. Stun guns are hidden in everything these days, from a flashlight to brass knuckles to canes and walking sticks.

A Zap cane is around $90



Something more concealable like a knuckle gun is around $20 - $40:



Or with a piercing edge:



3. Pepper spray fogger. Standard sprays come out as a thin stream that can be easily dodged. Foggers can affect a lot of people at once but the you have to be cautious about wind driving it back to you. Foggers/bear spray have a range of around 30 feet and cost around $45-$55.







You can look into cane/walking stick swords and alternative throwing weapons but you'll likely get pinched for it by any local police.

Beyond that, make a call to Little Dark - his threat alone will leave them shaking!

Quote: (01-07-2016 02:38 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Damn I can't ask a simple question without being accused of passive aggressive snark? I do think it's a valid question, if no one here has experienced any eminent attacks, what's the point of being scared? Maybe I just have a different outlook on life, but I don't believe in walking around being nervous and scared about something that could happen, but most likely won't.

It seems like everyone on here is kind of scared, like there are Muslim boogey-men hanging around every corner waiting to beat people up. Maybe it is like that over there in Europe, I don't know. Dalaaran lives in France so I'll take his word on the situation, but it does seem like most of the guys whipped into a frenzy over the migrant invasion don't even live in Europe.

Well maybe once the Muslims invade Northern California I'll start packing heat, there are already plenty of Mexican here, but I'm not too scared of them.

That's disingenuous of you, it was not a simple question. If it was, you would have expanded your question and made clear why it was relevant. By not doing so, you were well aware what the implication was. You did it again here:

Quote:Quote:

It seems like everyone on here is kind of scared, like there are Muslim boogey-men hanging around every corner waiting to beat people up.

which as you are well aware is a gross mis-characterisation of the general position.

Your own position seems to be that you would prefer to wait for a problem to become entrenched before you took any steps to protect yourself, or those you care about, from it.

What is your rationale for thinking that prudence, even extreme prudence, is a mask for fear?

Pepper spray seems like a pretty bad idea to me - range is limited, if there is wind, or multiple attackers, you are likely to spray it all around and end up copping a load in the peepers yourself. A solid locking folder, with a groove cut to help stop it sticking, and a handle designed not to get slippery when bloody is going to be very difficult to take out of someone's hands. If four guys are set on attacking you, you should be treating that as a live or die situation, where anything other than complete victory will result in your death. At the point you are being put on the floor by multiple attackers, you are already dead, and loosing the weapon is the least of your worries.

'If you're untrained you are in (more) danger of having your weapon taken off you and used against you' is a line pushed by all police and state apparatchiks, with, I suspect, very little basis in fact. This is the attitude of those who would have you totally dependent upon them for your life and well-being - it is a power play, plain and simple.

By the way, there's no law in France against carrying this in your backpack (an ice axe):



I think it'd be the best tool to carry in one's backpack, because it's legal, would frighten most muggers, and would (if the situation requires it, I mean, in self-defense) do serious damage - without having to train on how to use it (way to use it is instinctive).

Quote: (01-07-2016 03:24 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

By the way, there's no law in France against carrying this in your backpack (an ice axe):



I think it'd be the best tool to carry in one's backpack, because it's legal, would frighten most muggers, and would (if the situation requires it, I mean, in self-defense) do serious damage - without having to train on how to use it (way to use it is instinctive).

If you'll forgive me being a little facetious, how would you deploy this? Once you were sure violence was inevitable, would you ask the bad guys to hold on a minute whilst you just reached into your backpack? It's a mean looking thing, and as you say, has the appeal of being legal, but if you can't actually get to it before the trouble goes down, you might as well be carrying your chocolate teapot for all the good it will do.

A good heirachy of needs for choosing a weapon in a country where concealed/open carry of firearms is illegal might be something like this:

Carriability - are you going to leave the house with it every single day, whether you are going to the cinema, the bank, or the shops? A degree of behaviour modification may be necessary to get a yes here (there is no weapon you will get past a seasoned bouncer other than perhaps a biro). If you can't take it everywhere you go, bar perhaps the airport, it is worthless to you, because dollars to donuts you won't be carrying it when you need it. If you are going to get stopped and cautioned because of the obvious bulge in your jacket, it is no good to you.

Deployability - so you'll carry it, and it will fit with your lifestyle. Can you get to it, and deploy it (expose the blade, extend the batton, disengage the safety valve) and take up your defensive/offensive position before your opponents are within their lethal range? If you can't, it's no use having it, and will be a distraction in a critical situation. Having both arms busy scrabbling when you get hit is not going to do your sentience any favours.

Effectiveness - is it capable of incapacitating with the first blow? You may not get a second shot at an attacker, or his mates may be closing in on you. Once you may the decision to use a weapon against another person, you need to make sure there are no half measures, and that you inflict maximum damage on first impact.

Usability - Firstly, do you have the stomach for it. Be honest with yourself. Many people will happily give you a tap on the head with a baton. Not so many will look in your eyes and gut you. Know what you have the stomach for ahead of time. You cannot afford to hesitate or re-evaluate at le moment critique (this point may also belong in the 'Game' section). Hesitation really is how you get yourself killed with your own weapon, and that will be embarrassing at your funeral, though perhaps it will discourage clapping, which is something.

Trainability - can you practice with it, and develop a few gross motor patterns that become ingrained in you, so that you can act without thinking should you need to. If you're using a knife, you should know what it is to bleed an animal and gut it. You do not want to be overwhelmed by horror the first time you ever draw blood in anger.

Legality - this has two aspects. Ideally whatever you chose should be legal. Ultimately though, you are unlikely to be bleeding out in the gutter patting yourself on the back for not having been silly enough to carry a bigger stick, and you will have to examine your own conscience here. Whatever you decide, you should be polite, respectful, and well turned out, so that you avoid trouble, and avoid coming into contact with the first responders of the legal system. The second aspect to legality is a consideration of how your weapon of choice will be viewed in court should you win. Blunt objects or objects used by the police are more likely to be treated kindly than sharp pointy things criminals hide in their bottoms. Again, this is a matter for personal reflection.

Affordability - if it looks good for all of the above, you should probably buy it. Avoid thinks that say 'tactical' or 'combat black' etc, as that never plays well with the powers that be. You are not a power ranger, you'll be just fine with something more discrete.

Quote: (01-07-2016 03:24 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

By the way, there's no law in France against carrying this in your backpack (an ice axe):



I think it'd be the best tool to carry in one's backpack, because it's legal, would frighten most muggers, and would (if the situation requires it, I mean, in self-defense) do serious damage - without having to train on how to use it (way to use it is instinctive).

Leaving the scare factor out of the question here, there are some potentially big problems with weapons you can't deploy with a quick grab into your pocket.

And spring and summer time are probably the most tricky as roomy pockets are often in short supply.

I have a spring assisted folding knife with a blade that deploys in a split second with a quick press of the index finger. But given the legal complications here if you injure or kill someone in self defense, a knife is something I would prefer not to carry for self defense until a point where the local security situation seems to have taken a turn for the downright dangerous. Which is probably going to take rather longer here than in eg. Germany and Sweden since most of the invaders just pass through here on the way to richer targets.

I'm currently looking at tactical flashlights that can be used for both blinding and striking (eg. the 1000 lumen Fenix PD35).
Pepper spray may also be a possibility.

Quote: (01-07-2016 02:13 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Anyone here actually been attacked by a Muslim?

Are you Muslim by any chance? You made a comment before about a European leader secretly enjoying "muslim dick". Europeans have every right to be prepared for these savages and unfortanently attacks seem to be common.

Back on topic A small metal, skinny pipe. Keep it in a jacket or side of your boots..

Quote: (01-07-2016 04:00 PM)Brian Shima Wrote:  

Quote: (01-07-2016 02:13 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Anyone here actually been attacked by a Muslim?

Are you Muslim by any chance? You made a comment before about a European leader secretly enjoying "muslim dick". Europeans have every right to be prepared for these savages and unfortanently attacks seem to be common.

Back on topic A small metal, skinny pipe. Keep it in a jacket or side of your boots..

No I'm not a Muslim, I don't follow any organized bull shit.

Quote: (01-07-2016 04:00 PM)Brian Shima Wrote:  

Quote: (01-07-2016 02:13 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Anyone here actually been attacked by a Muslim?

Are you Muslim by any chance? You made a comment before about a European leader secretly enjoying "muslim dick". Europeans have every right to be prepared for these savages and unfortanently attacks seem to be common.

Back on topic A small metal, skinny pipe. Keep it in a jacket or side of your boots..

Who is the mofoka frightening Dalaean dress at a muslim ?

EDIT: If Paris is thqt dangerous pack your bag and fly to lyon or marseille and have fun !

Keep in mind that a lot of street crime is drugs motivated and a thug that is high on drugs may not feel a marshal arts blow or a knife or gun shot unless its a killing blow or shot - this is why so much of self defense is focused on disabling eyesight and breathing or both thus mace tear gas bear sprays and if illegal in your area powerful spray bottles with strong blinding household cleaners - of course acid or lighter fluid can cause permanent damage especially if you douse them in the face with lighter fluid and lite them up - however lighter fluid is legal along with a cigarette or cigar lighter and a pack of smokes to complete the ruse.

Instead of walking around oblivious to your surroundings with a $600 smart phone glued to your ear or eyeballs - leave it hidden until you get where you are going... a short smoke break gives you a chance to lean your back against a wall or light pole while doing a 360 sweep for hostiles without looking like a dodgy stalker yourself. Empty lighter fluid cans can be filled with gasoline or petrol which is just as much as an eye irritant and flames up much faster than slow burning lighter fluid. Three or four allahu wackbar attackers lit up like Joans of Arc will change their minds quickly and give you some time to get away.

In areas where roving bands of predators are present - mostly two or three men thugs teams as they are too greedy to split proceeds more than in half or a third - then the only thing besides a semi automatic 9MM that will work is comparable strength in numbers. Time to start a rod & gun fish & game club as cover for a local armed preppers militia - humans only have limited 180 degree peripheral vision and need two eyes to focus for depth perception so at least 3 to 5 men can cover 360 degrees left to right and up and down this is the optimal size for most small special operations teams.

Of course the most important thing is common sense and situation awareness as has been mentioned up thread - even Chris Rock has made jokes about ATMs being designed by thugs as they are open late at night, full of cash and you have to turn your back on the street when using one. Lots of crime increasing at self serve gasoline or petrol stations after dark as well ... use common sense and do your banking at lunch in broad daylight when you can go into a bank with security and gas up on the way back.

Sometimes just words alone work - I have in fact had people step up to me in Boston several times - at night usually they are cocked or looking for a fight - even got a sharp elbow by a suited up guy in line for coats when I just needed to get by to get to the mens room... My reply was "You must be a crazy little boy to phock with a man like me - why do you hate your mother so much? I am former military and you touch me again your mother will be going to your funeral tomorrow".

With someone cocked these deliberately shocking words will usually sober them up - with predatory thugs or druggies words are a waste of time and you have to go into immediate combat fight or flight mode to survive. That's why it is so important to avoid dodgy situations and locations in the first place - or bring your own crew or small trained army if in the EU.

Quote: (01-07-2016 03:50 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

Quote: (01-07-2016 03:24 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

By the way, there's no law in France against carrying this in your backpack (an ice axe):

I think it'd be the best tool to carry in one's backpack, because it's legal, would frighten most muggers, and would (if the situation requires it, I mean, in self-defense) do serious damage - without having to train on how to use it (way to use it is instinctive).

If you'll forgive me being a little facetious, how would you deploy this? Once you were sure violence was inevitable, would you ask the bad guys to hold on a minute whilst you just reached into your backpack? It's a mean looking thing, and as you say, has the appeal of being legal, but if you can't actually get to it before the trouble goes down, you might as well be carrying your chocolate teapot for all the good it will do.

A good heirachy of needs for choosing a weapon in a country where concealed/open carry of firearms is illegal might be something like this:

Carriability - are you going to leave the house with it every single day, whether you are going to the cinema, the bank, or the shops? A degree of behaviour modification may be necessary to get a yes here (there is no weapon you will get past a seasoned bouncer other than perhaps a biro). If you can't take it everywhere you go, bar perhaps the airport, it is worthless to you, because dollars to donuts you won't be carrying it when you need it. If you are going to get stopped and cautioned because of the obvious bulge in your jacket, it is no good to you.

Deployability - so you'll carry it, and it will fit with your lifestyle. Can you get to it, and deploy it (expose the blade, extend the batton, disengage the safety valve) and take up your defensive/offensive position before your opponents are within their lethal range? If you can't, it's no use having it, and will be a distraction in a critical situation. Having both arms busy scrabbling when you get hit is not going to do your sentience any favours.

Effectiveness - is it capable of incapacitating with the first blow? You may not get a second shot at an attacker, or his mates may be closing in on you. Once you may the decision to use a weapon against another person, you need to make sure there are no half measures, and that you inflict maximum damage on first impact.

Usability - Firstly, do you have the stomach for it. Be honest with yourself. Many people will happily give you a tap on the head with a baton. Not so many will look in your eyes and gut you. Know what you have the stomach for ahead of time. You cannot afford to hesitate or re-evaluate at le moment critique (this point may also belong in the 'Game' section). Hesitation really is how you get yourself killed with your own weapon, and that will be embarrassing at your funeral, though perhaps it will discourage clapping, which is something.

Trainability - can you practice with it, and develop a few gross motor patterns that become ingrained in you, so that you can act without thinking should you need to. If you're using a knife, you should know what it is to bleed an animal and gut it. You do not want to be overwhelmed by horror the first time you ever draw blood in anger.

Legality - this has two aspects. Ideally whatever you chose should be legal. Ultimately though, you are unlikely to be bleeding out in the gutter patting yourself on the back for not having been silly enough to carry a bigger stick, and you will have to examine your own conscience here. Whatever you decide, you should be polite, respectful, and well turned out, so that you avoid trouble, and avoid coming into contact with the first responders of the legal system. The second aspect to legality is a consideration of how your weapon of choice will be viewed in court should you win. Blunt objects or objects used by the police are more likely to be treated kindly than sharp pointy things criminals hide in their bottoms. Again, this is a matter for personal reflection.

Affordability - if it looks good for all of the above, you should probably buy it. Avoid thinks that say 'tactical' or 'combat black' etc, as that never plays well with the powers that be. You are not a power ranger, you'll be just fine with something more discrete.

Then, only a telescopic baton meets your criteria, I think.

As to my ice-axe proposal, it could be useful in a (suburban RER) train-attack situation, which is (the train I mean) the most common place for a mugging, in France. I mean, muggers robbing people in a train wagon, you'd have time to see them coming and grab your ice-axe from your backpack, wouldn't you? Also, an ice-axe under a seat in your car might come in handy in case of, say, car-jacking...

Are brass knuckles or stinger rings an effective weapon, or are they more like nunchucks?

Quote: (01-07-2016 04:54 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

Quote: (01-07-2016 03:50 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

Quote: (01-07-2016 03:24 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

By the way, there's no law in France against carrying this in your backpack (an ice axe):

I think it'd be the best tool to carry in one's backpack, because it's legal, would frighten most muggers, and would (if the situation requires it, I mean, in self-defense) do serious damage - without having to train on how to use it (way to use it is instinctive).

If you'll forgive me being a little facetious, how would you deploy this? Once you were sure violence was inevitable, would you ask the bad guys to hold on a minute whilst you just reached into your backpack? It's a mean looking thing, and as you say, has the appeal of being legal, but if you can't actually get to it before the trouble goes down, you might as well be carrying your chocolate teapot for all the good it will do.

A good heirachy of needs for choosing a weapon in a country where concealed/open carry of firearms is illegal might be something like this:

Carriability - are you going to leave the house with it every single day, whether you are going to the cinema, the bank, or the shops? A degree of behaviour modification may be necessary to get a yes here (there is no weapon you will get past a seasoned bouncer other than perhaps a biro). If you can't take it everywhere you go, bar perhaps the airport, it is worthless to you, because dollars to donuts you won't be carrying it when you need it. If you are going to get stopped and cautioned because of the obvious bulge in your jacket, it is no good to you.

Deployability - so you'll carry it, and it will fit with your lifestyle. Can you get to it, and deploy it (expose the blade, extend the batton, disengage the safety valve) and take up your defensive/offensive position before your opponents are within their lethal range? If you can't, it's no use having it, and will be a distraction in a critical situation. Having both arms busy scrabbling when you get hit is not going to do your sentience any favours.

Effectiveness - is it capable of incapacitating with the first blow? You may not get a second shot at an attacker, or his mates may be closing in on you. Once you may the decision to use a weapon against another person, you need to make sure there are no half measures, and that you inflict maximum damage on first impact.

Usability - Firstly, do you have the stomach for it. Be honest with yourself. Many people will happily give you a tap on the head with a baton. Not so many will look in your eyes and gut you. Know what you have the stomach for ahead of time. You cannot afford to hesitate or re-evaluate at le moment critique (this point may also belong in the 'Game' section). Hesitation really is how you get yourself killed with your own weapon, and that will be embarrassing at your funeral, though perhaps it will discourage clapping, which is something.

Trainability - can you practice with it, and develop a few gross motor patterns that become ingrained in you, so that you can act without thinking should you need to. If you're using a knife, you should know what it is to bleed an animal and gut it. You do not want to be overwhelmed by horror the first time you ever draw blood in anger.

Legality - this has two aspects. Ideally whatever you chose should be legal. Ultimately though, you are unlikely to be bleeding out in the gutter patting yourself on the back for not having been silly enough to carry a bigger stick, and you will have to examine your own conscience here. Whatever you decide, you should be polite, respectful, and well turned out, so that you avoid trouble, and avoid coming into contact with the first responders of the legal system. The second aspect to legality is a consideration of how your weapon of choice will be viewed in court should you win. Blunt objects or objects used by the police are more likely to be treated kindly than sharp pointy things criminals hide in their bottoms. Again, this is a matter for personal reflection.

Affordability - if it looks good for all of the above, you should probably buy it. Avoid thinks that say 'tactical' or 'combat black' etc, as that never plays well with the powers that be. You are not a power ranger, you'll be just fine with something more discrete.

Then, only a telescopic baton meets your criteria, I think.

As to my ice-axe proposal, it could be useful in a (suburban RER) train-attack situation, which is (the train I mean) the most common place for a mugging, in France. I mean, muggers robbing people in a train wagon, you'd have time to see them coming and grab your ice-axe from your backpack, wouldn't you? Also, an ice-axe under a seat in your car might come in handy in case of, say, car-jacking...

A telescopic baton is a very good choice, but I don't think one can necessarily rule out knives, screwdrivers etc. As I mentioned, legality is an area where personal reflection is required, and there are no right answers. Personally I'd go for a 4" plus blade on a reliable folding knife with a solid locking system, that has an adjustable pocket clip. You are more likely to be able to reach and deploy it in a tussle, assuming you've been jumped and can buy yourself some time. I dress smart, looking like a nice chap, avoid trouble, and don't go anywhere I'm going to get patted down or find myself in a close shave with the fuzz. A knife also follows more natural fighting arcs than a baton in my opinion, is harder to time, harder to grab, and more likely to demoralise an opponent. It is also effective once the fight ebbs in your opponent's favour - ie you're on the ground, tangled up etc. I believe a knife in capable hands improves survivability to an extent that makes the disdain of the judiciary a satisfactory trade off. It also suits my personal philosophy regarding the use of violence more appropriately.

Re: the ice axe - perhaps, though I think anything that needs unzipping or prolonged fine motor control to access in a high stress situation is undesirable. Also, to look at the thing, if you give someone a whack with that, you might as well scalp the fucker and jump up on the seat hooting like a Red Indian, because the court system is going to hang you out to dry.

@Going Strong: that would not be a practical weapon baring it being difficult to deploy, especially in crowded place like the metro. Having lived in Paris you know how this is.

Not too long ago I posted a thread about how I show a little compassion for a girl who just got mugged. When I talked to the father, he said that they were in a crowd, suddenly he collapsed on his knees, someone has hit him from behind. Then someone else got into his pockets quickly and they made off before anyone could even understand what was going on.

That was just an example, but the point is, if you have to draw your weapon from your backpack its already too late. It needs to be on your person all the time. Only a knife, knuckle brass or small pepper spray fit this description.

However, the ice pick is awesome for home defense. I'm actually thinking about getting one for this reason. Its small blade allows it to be used through small spaces like a blocked door/window, and it can be used as a lever when needed.

@about the "do you need training to use a knife": i would say yes. H1N1, i agree with you that aggression count for a lot (which is why we are already at a disadvantage against the migrants), but in your example the boxer doesnt necessarily know how to deal with a knife. Quite the contrary, he might be inclined to rely too much on his boxing that he forgot the natural reflexes: grab the knife and try to wrestle the hell out of it.

Try this with your friends who are untrained. Back them into a corner with a practice knife and try stabbing them. It will turn into a wrestling match I guarantee you. I did this all the time and though I won, I actually won using the empty hand and my knees, and I would got cut a lot too had it been a real knife. This is given that I have decent hand to hand training and SOME knife training.

Against multiple DETERMINED, AGGRESSIVE attackers you are done.

@OGNorCal707: I'll adress your question for what it is: no i have not, but people close to me have been attacked and badly mauled by illegal immigrants which are blacks and muslims. I made fun of my Sensei the first time he got mugged, but the second time I got really worried. Do you need to be personally attacked to feel threatened? That's the same attitude the ignorant lefts hold that lead us into this mess "Oh I work with Muslims all the time and they are nice so these syrians are no threat at all!"

You guys need to be on the ground to understand how it is. 2 terrorists attack by Muslims in under one year, over 200 killed and wounded, and we're still asking "Is it safe?" Are you fucking kidding me?

I'm doing my best to prepare but truthfully if I'm so unlucky to get jumped by an aggressive horde who wants to do me harm there's a high chance that I'll die. No plan survives contact with the enemy. Though I'll make sure I wont die ass raped like some of those cucked.

That said though, I'll also buy binoculars to watch migrants raping the local femen bitches. Damn shame they have gone so silence lately. I pray to all the divine they do another nude protest in a Muslim filled street. The happy - ahem brutal - ending would be so poetic.