[Dalaran1991]

For those of us who decide to stay in Europe regardless of their reasons, self-defense is getting more and more crucial. Your krav-manga and BJJ alone won't cut it against the Muslim horde, this we know. We are talking weapons. The invaders hunt in hordes and are getting bolder and bolder. They are fearless and consider you subhumans so killing and maiming you wont be a problem for them. With them being present everywhere now, you also need to be constantly ready. In Paris there are as many blacks immigrants and muslims than whites in the street. The irony? Most security guards in the streets, supermarkets etc. are all either blacks or muslims. I've NEVER seen a white French as a guard before.

For a lot of Europeans getting a gun is extremely difficult (in France, just forget about it). You still can get a gun but how effective is that if you can't carry it with you?

This leads me to consider my options. You need weapons that you can:

-Carry on your person all the time, so small and concealable.
-Easy to obtain and maintain
-Not technically illegal (overlap with above)
-Has decent fatality potential
-Has crowd control capability
-Fast and easily deployed
-Has decent range

This rule out guns and crossbows since not only are they hard to get, they are also hard to carry and ammunition are not replaceable.

A flexible belt with a heavy buckle is good because its not a weapon, and with proper training you can cause havoc with it, but lots of limits: it doesn't cause instant wound that incapacitate, not effective against a crowd, hard to deploy and slow, short range.

The same goes for long, metal key chains that could be easily used as brass knuckles, but again, unless you are a strong boxers, against a horde you still get swarmed.

A knife is good (providing you have proper training), easy to use and deploy, fast and cause instant bleeding wound (although fatal stabs are hard to deliver), but it has the same limit of short range and not effective against hordes. You can also expect the invaders to have knives against you.

This is the most effective knife attack, simple and overwhelming, not like some fancy useless Philipino duel style:

But here you are the attacker, and you are one on one. Against a vicious crowd you can probably take down one to open an escape route and run if you are lucky.

The only weapon with crowd control potential is the pepper spray. You would still need proper training to be able to quick draw and use it if you are jumped.

Other options include home-made grenades/combustible but they are too hazardous to use.

So I'm thinking the a combination of knife and pepper spray to always have on your person when things get really tough?

[Lucky]

I've heard good things about tactical pens and expandable batons.

[Phoenix]

But on a serious note, I think chemical weapons are closer to what you're thinking, such as a bear mace spray. You don't need to severely injure someone to defend yourself, you merely need to incapacitate their ability to attack.

[Dalaran1991]

(01-07-2016 07:43 AM)Lucky Wrote:  

I've heard good things about tactical pens and expandable batons.

I have an expendable baton. It's good and cause good damage, but one BIG drawback: since it has no cutting edge, opponents can catch it and try to wrestle it out of you. One on one is fine, but we tested it with my martial artists buddy, even against 2 un-trained but aggressive attackers its very easy to have it wrestled out of you.

Not sure about the tactical pens at all....

@Phoenix: unless you are kidding.... you cant carry a bow around nor its arrow on the street. And it takes a LOT of training to shoot like that.

I'm not talking about home defense.

[blck]

Delete

[Green-On-GO]

My 2 euro cents .

I carry a heavy climbing carabiner on my daypack.Slip it over your knuckles and crack skulls.

Or carry a medium size padlock lock it onto your belt buckle and swing away.

I also carry a little high lumens eagletac torch to blind with, anything below 250 lumens is not strong enough I'm told.
I have the older version of this one which fits in my jeans pocket.

http://www.eagletac.com/html/d25crc/index.html
Or carry a bigger tactical torch with a sharp bezzel.
Or knife if it's legal not to mention a screwdriver.

Another favourite is a hard ball like cricket or baseball or bigger batteries in your bag with long tough socks.Just shove object in your socks and swing away.

Whatever you are going to do make sure you train yourself to deploying it...and make sure you can run.

[johnfortunebg]

I carry brass knuckles all the time (except when I'm going to clubs where I will be searched for weapons). I have several knives also but I almost never carry them currently as it is still safe here (probably not for very long).

Quote:

-Has decent fatality potential

This is all well and good for when the shit hits the fan, but currently it may be a big risk for you.
In Bulgaria at least, if someone (even a group of people) attacks you bear handed and you kill them with a knife, it's highly likely that you will do time. The moronic liberal justice system and its corrupted self-defence laws.

[H1N1]

Weapons are a very small part of sound self-defence, and any buying decisions should be made as part of a wider martial strategy. For example, under what circumstances will you deploy your weapon? Many people carry some kind of weapon but have not rehearsed the scenarios in their heads about when they will and won't use them. If you use a weapon, you have to assume there will be consequences, either legally, or through physical escalation. Under what circumstances are you prepared to face these consequences? How far will you let an aggressor go before you deploy your weapon? If you're reacting to his actions, and you've not been in a violent situation with weapons before, chances are an experienced criminal will gut you before you can deploy anything, so you need to be prepared to act first and face the music. What weapon gives you the best chance of that - a blunt baton, or a 6" bowie knife? A biro can be extremely effective, assuming you're prepared to drive it through another man's eyeball at bad breath range before he has pulled a weapon of his own.


If you live in Europe, and we're talking about weapons you can legally have out on the street, then the answer is more or less none. In the UK, the most dangerous thing you can carry is a sub-3" non-locking, foldable penknife, that cannot be opened with one hand. If you want to remain within the law, the best you can hope for probably is a box cutter ('I need it for work officer'), which is a good slashing weapon across the eyes, lips or throat. Against the uninitiated, drawing a lot of blood quickly is going to have the strongest non-lethal effect. However, knives are assassin's weapons, and they require you being up close and personal and willing to get yourself bloody. And you have to really have excellent judgement to pull a knife and use it non-lethally (hint - you probably don't have this kind of judgement unless you are or have been a fairly serious operator).

A better strategy for the milder of nature is to try to create space between yourself and your attackers. Some kind of expandable baton is certainly the best way of doing this, though it is likely illegal. I do not advocate taking illegal actions, as laws are always right, just and reasonable, and should therefore be obeyed. However, your safety is a personal responsibility, and the risks you take to try to guarantee it are yours to consider. A baton will break bones clean in two if you swing it with malice, and may well buy you enough space to make an escape, which is what your primary strategy should always be once avoidance has failed.

[Going strong]

(01-07-2016 07:49 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

But on a serious note, I think chemical "weapons" are closer to what you're thinking, such as a bear mace spray. You don't need to severely injure someone to defend yourself, you merely need to incapacitate their ability to attack.

bear mace spray, the kind they sell in Canada, are I think your best (kinda legal) bet.

I mean, carrying it is probably illegal per se in France, but, you wouldn't get a prison sentence if caught with a defensive weapon like that. You'd just get a fine... but on the other hand, getting caught with a knife or gun would lead to serious prosecution and legal troubles.

If you really want to carry a knife, only legal option in France is what gypsies do: to carry a curved, small knife that is used by workers called "vanniers", and pretend to do wickerwork as a hobby or profession!

[Glaucon]

I bought pepper spray, that is the only good thing against more than one attacker. Also I would not use a knife, too high probability to kill or seriously injure someone, and I do not want to be locked up.

Would love to have a pistol permit but in Europe forget it....

[Mike5055]

The carabiner and lock ideas are pretty good. No one can claim they're weapons until you might need to use them.

A friend of mine taught in a really awful school in Chicago. Gangs, crime, etc. One day, some girl in class decided to get revenge on a girl and used a padlock on a lanyard. Makeshift flail! Effective when needed.

[zombiejimmorrison]

(01-07-2016 08:27 AM)Green-On-GO Wrote:  

My 2 euro cents .



I also carry a little high lumens eagletac torch to blind with, anything below 250 lumens is not strong enough I'm told.
I have the older version of this one which fits in my jeans pocket.

http://www.eagletac.com/html/d25crc/index.html

Thanks for that torch reference. I was meaning to get something like this but didn't know where to start. How effective is it at blinding people and how long does it last, it's so convenient and can be taken anywhere legally.

[Hades]

Gay as it sounds, just carry a fistload. You can make them out of practically anything. Rolls of nickels would work.

If you really fuck somebody up with one, just blame the attack on Little Dark.

[Easy_C]

(01-07-2016 08:55 AM)Mike5055 Wrote:  

The carabiner and lock ideas are pretty good. No one can claim they're weapons until you might need to use them.

A friend of mine taught in a really awful school in Chicago. Gangs, crime, etc. One day, some girl in class decided to get revenge on a girl and used a padlock on a lanyard. Makeshift flail! Effective when needed.

Person beat me to it. That's a relatively common makeshift gang weapon, as are flashlights which are large or have a pointed grip, razers, etc.

Also tazers. They hurt like a bitch.

[Hannibal]

You're not going to be dealing with "hordes" without a firearm or an army of likeminded individuals.

As far as weapon selection, range is going to be a problem. This is barring goofy shit like slings (remember David and Goliath?), throwing darts, shurikens and other assorted weapons fit only for nerds to endlessly theorycraft about. Believe you me, I've tried to get good with the ancient sling (we're talking a reliable hit at 25 yards or less) and it's hard.

Brass knuckles are OK; some boxing practice would go a long way if you had a pair of brass knuckles.

A slapjack isn't bad either. If expandable batons are legal to carry I would get one of those, they have a bit of reach.

If you're worried about getting caught by the police, a kubotan or yawara stick would be a passable option. You can get them in the form of flashlights, they are weapons that are easily made to look like something else. Cold Steel sells a sharpie (known as the Sharkie) that is a kubotan.

Pepper spray is good if you're fighting more than one guy. These are your best "ranged" option.

If you're fighting in the dark, a high quality flashlight can help a lot by blinding the other guy. Surefire makes badass flashlights that perform double duty as a kubotan.

African migrants are not fond of dogs. If your living situation allows it, a big ass dog is the second best thing to carrying a gun.

The most important thing to do is to practice with the self defense option you pick and to know when to run away. When in doubt, GTFO.

[BortimusPrime]

[cascadecombo]

Pulling a weapon encourages your assailants to escalate their level if violence as well. So if you are talkin mobs of people your ass better be able to run fast or kokill them in quick succession.

Mace or some sort of stunning device to help you run. Or just make a gang.

[Green-On-GO]

(01-07-2016 08:59 AM)zombiejimmorrison Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 08:27 AM)Green-On-GO Wrote:  

My 2 euro cents .



I also carry a little high lumens eagletac torch to blind with, anything below 250 lumens is not strong enough I'm told.
I have the older version of this one which fits in my jeans pocket.

http://www.eagletac.com/html/d25crc/index.html

Thanks for that torch reference. I was meaning to get something like this but didn't know where to start. How effective is it at blinding people and how long does it last, it's so convenient and can be taken anywhere legally.

It will dazzle long enough to kick/strike and run.
Test the light on yourself then test on yourself at night time.It won't hurt like pepper spray but will cause attacker to automatically grab their eyes and they will see stars.

Your looking at about $60 in oz.Stick with tactical brands like Nitecore Surefire ,Eagletac ,Olight,etc and torches that use cr123 batteries...Just PM me if you want shops/sites in Australia.Note the torch I use is tiny so you can't hit with it.It's only for time and space I'd use it in close situations as in 5 metres or less..

I read up on Police using flashlights/torches and I remember the article saying anything over 250 lumens will disorientate an attacker.Below 250 lumens that not so much.

@Mike5055
I saw some shit in Europe back in the day go down not to mention in Arab Quarter of Jerusalem.I got the padlock idea from the Palestinians and the Carabiner idea from the Israelis..I saw a Palestinian get he's head caved in by some kind of old school phone charger.Shit happened so fast.Guy deploying it was like Spiderman with the thing
This ex Russian Paratrooper Afghan war vet carried a bike brake cable with a blade tied to the end and flayed with that..

Most weapons legal in the US like Pepper spray ,tazers, batons are not legal in other countries.You have to have deniability....and fucken run like Bolt.

[Baphomet]

Just to look at this from a different angle - The best defense is to not be there when the shit hits the fan. Vigilant Situational Awareness is a vital part of any defensive plan.

It's a good thing that I'm an honest guy, because I could make a good living on simple petty theft from the "device zombies". These people, men and women, walk around, eyes locked on their phone, literally oblivious to the world around them. They are PERFECT victims.

As Hannibal points out, if you're in a horde, it means you're toast. It also means that you contributed to your own demise by simply failing to keep a presence of situational awareness. In the wild, animals that do that are known as "food."

Using any of the weapons mentioned so far is the absolute last resort of a failed assessment of your surroundings.

[Parzival]

First of all you should avoid dangerous situation. Crowed places, places where people get drunk / use drugs or general dark and dangerous areas.
The next thing is, you mostly don't chose the time for violence, the attacker do. They not looking for a fight, they go for a victim. This brings you back to avoid certain places and situations.

Next thing, even when you have a weapon but you get a unexpected attack? When you go down in hits, can you pull the weapon? Even more can you use it? Would you use a knife? Furthermore keep the laws in mind. Maybe you think you are right but when you go to prison or you have to pay for the attacker for the rest of your life, your life is a mess. I have a kubotan and I know a technique how to wrap your belt to a harder weapon. Still the time that I need to pull this stuff I better use to create distance between me and the attacker. You can also carry just a magazine and wrap it. Its a hard tool too. Or an umbrella. In a bar mostly you see it come. Its in 99 % a mind game if you go for the game. There your personality is the key. Also then you have mostly time to react quickly. I had more issues in my early 20s then now. Maybe a thin chain is a good tool too but like all tools it depends.

Violence is mostly not like movies where someone call you out or do move X and you react with move Y. Avoid certain places and situation, sometimes you can even talk a situation down. Create space, have the legal consequences in mind. When you kill or injury someone serious you mostly have to pay for it. You should just not be in the situation with a mob. Running is your better self defence. Avoid possible violent situation is even a better self defence. The hit an run tactic is the best when you have to face the violence. Hit back, hard and fast and then run. No fancy moves.

[Dr. Howard]

(01-07-2016 09:15 AM)Hannibal Wrote:  

You're not going to be dealing with "hordes" without a firearm or an army of likeminded individuals.

As far as weapon selection, range is going to be a problem. This is barring goofy shit like slings (remember David and Goliath?), throwing darts, shurikens and other assorted weapons fit only for nerds to endlessly theorycraft about. Believe you me, I've tried to get good with the ancient sling (we're talking a reliable hit at 25 yards or less) and it's hard.

Brass knuckles are OK; some boxing practice would go a long way if you had a pair of brass knuckles.

A slapjack isn't bad either. If expandable batons are legal to carry I would get one of those, they have a bit of reach.

If you're worried about getting caught by the police, a kubotan or yawara stick would be a passable option. You can get them in the form of flashlights, they are weapons that are easily made to look like something else. Cold Steel sells a sharpie (known as the Sharkie) that is a kubotan.

Pepper spray is good if you're fighting more than one guy. These are your best "ranged" option.

If you're fighting in the dark, a high quality flashlight can help a lot by blinding the other guy. Surefire makes badass flashlights that perform double duty as a kubotan.

African migrants are not fond of dogs. If your living situation allows it, a big ass dog is the second best thing to carrying a gun.

The most important thing to do is to practice with the self defense option you pick and to know when to run away. When in doubt, GTFO.

I agree.

1. Big aggressive dogs are totally legal and cause that primal fear in people when they start barking.

2. The blinding power of flashlights is real, at night.

3. Be careful with bear spray vs. mace. In places in the US you can carry mace, but not bear spray (which is like super mace). Carrying and using bear spray in canada has been considered as a weapon. We used to get shit from police and conservation officers for even having it 'accessible' in the cabs of our vehicles.

[Suits]

(01-07-2016 08:37 AM)johnfortunebg Wrote:  

In Bulgaria at least, if someone (even a group of people) attacks you bear handed and you kill them with a knife, it's highly likely that you will do time.

[Remington]

[Dalaran1991]

Some good practical advice here. I'm not some stupid "let's stay and fight all these migrants while walking around drunk 4am near the train station" shit. But things have gotten bad around here. Lots of rascals in my neighborhood and I come back from gym and work at 9pm. My 4th degree black belt sensei got robed TWICE, and he's no bloke at all. The first time he got jumped by a big black migrants with a mace spray. The second time he got jumped by 2 muslims.

I understand situational awareness and that the best option is to run. You even see some loud, shady characters from afar, its better to change course. But like I said, people are getting jumped here in Paris, France. And nobody says shit.

With my training and reflexes if I get jumped I might buy myself a second at most to roll out of the way or avoid getting tackled, but that's too late to pick myself up and run. That's when we talk serious self-defense.

Something I'll definitely look seriously into:

-Flashlight
-Pepper spray, the legal type
-A small, quick draw knife. I'm no stranger to fighting but I'm small, and in panic situation you can kiss your training goodbye, so brass knuckles or anything that requires physical force to be effective is out of the window.

Getting a dog is cool, better companion than most leftist cuck However I'm not talking about home defense, I have enough tools to defend my house. I doubt I can walk a big dog with me everywhere...

[MikeS]

(01-07-2016 07:41 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

...

A knife is good (providing you have proper training)...

Assuming you're fighting a single attacker (obviously multiple attackers is almost always going to be a more complex and dangerous situation), do you actually need "proper training" to be a massive threat when you're wielding a knife?
I've read that before but I figured that some of them might mean training required so as to pose less of a threat (ie. avoiding accidentally killing someone when that level of force wasn't required)?

I remember reading a section in a self defense book once where the author said (paraphrasing) that almost anyone wielding a knife instantly becomes the equivalent of a 50th dan martial artist (simplified I'm sure, but the damage potential obviously goes up exponentially for even an untrained person holding a knife).