Quote: (01-04-2016 06:07 PM)262 Wrote:  

^^^
Pretty sure the above is self-promotion, which is prohibited here.

what's being promoted? this entire thread is about me & already links my content, how is a video response from me promotion? lol

Your YouTube channel.

Also, I didn't know you counted as multiple Americans. It's not "Thirsty American Ruining Asia by Himself" lol

Quote: (01-03-2016 09:55 AM)Tenerife Wrote:  

[size=xx-small]The big issue in asia, in particular the further north you go, is the shaming that asian men deliver to asian women for being around white men.

Asian women are afraid of what THEIR men will think if they are seen publicly with a white dude....but privately many of them want white men.

Asian men have come up with a whole complex of scripts for rationalizing why a decent looking white guy in asia is somehow a "loser" that "left his home because he couldn't get laid" (secretly inside he feels jealousy and insecurity that even a relative "chump" from the west can get laid consistently with his women).

So they say things like "these white men are dating women I wouldn't even touch", meanwhile many of these guys haven't been getting laid 1/10 as much as the white dude (I'm not referring to the top 5% of local guys that have their act together, just the majority of the anti-white shaming crowd of asian males).

It's obviously understandable why many asian men don't want to see white guys with their women. They probably don't even like seeing white men with their ugly women, to be honest. Asian cultures are mostly openly racist and yes, supremacist.

I think people on here claiming that this david guy is "ruining Asia for white men" is a little absurd. Some asian girls might see this stuff and get turned on, actually. You could think of it as a display of power. The men don't like it, but I'm betting some women might actually find it attractive.

The men feel threatened by it, that's why it's "shocking". Many asian men feel a sense of national and racial insecurity towards whites, and the white-men-dating-asian-women phenomenon plays upon those insecurities and fears, riling up an intense hatred inside of them, which further fuels the rationalizations and "scripts" they run to try to reframe the situation. I'm not saying they should like it. If I were in their shoes I probably wouldn't "like" it either.


Sure, many white guys come to asia and bang unattractive women. But I'm in a city in Asia now where a huge number of white dudes are getting with the local girls. Some of them less attractive, but some are beautiful.

Case in point for how ineffective media shaming of whites is Indonesia.

They have a television show called "bule gila" which translates roughly to "crazy whitey" where mostly Australian whites are shown doing really stupid shit.

I spent around two months in Jakarta and got with around 30 girls. In fact, when you say the word "bule" the next common word out of their mouths is "gila" or "crazy". Then you take them to your apartment and have sex.

Someone else cited earlier the shutting down of a military base in the Philippines and how this pissed the locals off the way they were acting. But the Philippines is arguably the easiest place to get laid, so clearly this didn't alter the easiness of sex in the country for foreigners. In fact, their actions may have helped.

Women are turned on by foreign dominant men, men that might act ridiculous and even disrespect the culture.

I think we're looking at David Bond through a "male lense". Maybe we should be looking at how women might perceive it.

It may or may not hurt perception of western men in asia from females, then again cases like this may have unintended positive benefits.[/size]

Well spoken and very very accurate in my opinion.

Quote: (01-04-2016 06:14 PM)DavidBond Wrote:  

Quote: (01-04-2016 06:07 PM)262 Wrote:  

^^^
Pretty sure the above is self-promotion, which is prohibited here.

what's being promoted? this entire thread is about me & already links my content, how is a video response from me promotion? lol

We also have a rule against text-speak.

Quote: (01-04-2016 11:45 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

Quote: (01-03-2016 11:05 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

Wrong planet brah. We're talking about where has the better women, and Sebastian is in America, the worst place to find quality girls. If the world is the Solar System, it's pretty obvious where Sebastian is located

Nah, those planets don't even support life. Kepler-186f is a more likely candidate for Sebastian's true origins.

You are all wrong, here's the definite answer:

   

I find it interesting that there is so much hate focused on this dude.

You do know we are on a forum run by a guy who has been on the media in numerous countries, gotten a ton of negative exposure, has even gone on local media and done approaches for the cameras, and has even had countries try to ban him, his books, etc.?

Couldn't one argue that David is doing a similar thing to Roosh?

Secondly, he doesn't need this forum for more exposure. He's got multiple videos over 100k views on youtube, and a subscriber base that is close to Roosh's. Is he even selling anything? Plenty of other dudes have links to their blogs here already.

Thirdly, this thread brings up a lot of issues that other members have brought up in the past: fears about more guys finding about travel/meeting girls and how this will affect the competition level in these foreign countries. A lot of guys want the travel forum to be for members only, and only for people who contribute data. The problem is Roosh will probably never make the travel section private.

Even if you held a petition a "datasheet strike" and everyone who currently posts left, other guys would come along and fill the void. Thousands of men are finding this site. Most of the information is already up and will continue to grow. It's inevitable that more and more men will go these different locations. In fact, a lot of datasheets are written by men that are new members, go to a city for a week that they probably won't return to, and then post a lot of information that anyone can find that has a pulse and internet connection.

Dating in foreign countries is going to get more competitive. There's nothing you can do to stop it. The only productive thing you can do is focus on your sphere of influence. Stop wasting energy on concerns outside your sphere of control and improve yourself, increase your competitiveness on the dating market no matter where you are.

Have you been going to the gym at least three times a week and focusing on your diet? Do you have a passive income stream? Have you been working on business ideas? Do you have decent clothes for going out? Do you consistently approach at least 10 girls when you go out? etc.

If you look good, approach well, and have even just a few grand to dispense with a month, you're good. Go to asia and have fun.

These fly-by-night tourists don't affect a whole lot. The bigger problem is the overall total presence of foreigners on the ground at any one moment, which tends to reduce your exoticism.

Likewise, when it comes to media exposure, the benefits you get from hollywood and MTV outweigh little news clips of foreign dudes approaching girls. These girls are going to go the cinema and be brainwashed with films starring mostly handsome white men, they listen to western english language pop songs with western faces, boy bands, RandB stars, etc. Those positive associations help you out a lot more than any jealousy driven, xenophobic news story.

Quote: (01-05-2016 03:11 AM)Tenerife Wrote:  

I find it interesting that there is so much hate focused on this dude.

You do know we are on a forum run by a guy who has been on the media in numerous countries, gotten a ton of negative exposure, has even gone on local media and done approaches for the cameras, and has even had countries try to ban him, his books, etc.?

Couldn't one argue that David is doing a similar thing to Roosh?

Roosh sells affordable e-books that anyone could afford and has gone above and beyond to provide reams of valuable free content, a forum the only costs him money and time to operate and is relatable. Best of all, he very clearly values real connections with women.

David Bond is the complete opposite with a swarmy car salesman vibe to boot.

Yeah the actual impact is way overblown but the way he did it obviously left a bad taste. Attention-seeking at the expense of others (even though he's clearly not "ruining asia"). Guy is even on this thread shamelessly self-promoting and trying to get eyeballs on his Youtube channel. Easy to see why people reacted negatively to him.

Quote: (01-05-2016 03:53 AM)Suits Wrote:  

Quote: (01-05-2016 03:11 AM)Tenerife Wrote:  

I find it interesting that there is so much hate focused on this dude.

You do know we are on a forum run by a guy who has been on the media in numerous countries, gotten a ton of negative exposure, has even gone on local media and done approaches for the cameras, and has even had countries try to ban him, his books, etc.?

Couldn't one argue that David is doing a similar thing to Roosh?

Roosh sells affordable e-books that anyone could afford and has gone above and beyond to provide reams of valuable free content, a forum the only costs him money and time to operate and is relatable. Best of all, he very clearly values real connections with women.

David Bond is the complete opposite with a swarmy car salesman vibe to boot.

So it's his vibe? On Roosh's youtube videos he gets plenty of hate for his personality as well.

I'm not sure of the intentions of Bond either, maybe it is all just a way to make cash and try to monopolize on the membership of the forum.

If he's on here and starts endlessly spamming that's one thing, but if he's just making videos of his travels, even if he comes across as being ego-driven and unlikable to some, I still don't really see the hate.

Guy traveling, makes videos about meeting girls in foreign countries.

Roosh has also written endlessly about just banging girls and not wanting to see them again. And I also think this forum is an asset to Roosh.

Seems like the same hate you give to Bond could be given to Roosh.

Edit: tip to David, you might want to post some datasheets in the travel section. You know, give a little value to the forum. There's no benefit of the doubt given to new members who appear to be self-promoting, and who don't share info.

I don't know what videos you've been watching but I've certainly never seen one of Roosh annoying girls on the street with loud, confrontational clown antics and a GoPro stuck to his forehead, or secretly filming them in private and during make outs with no attempt at concealing their faces, then uploading these encounters with clickbait titles to get off on the outrage.

Quote: (01-04-2016 02:18 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

I'm not even sure what the debate is here.

One of the major reasons that many guys on this forum travel in the first place is to get away from Western women and culture. Of course importing that same culture en masse is going to make things “worse”.

As others have mentioned, simply interacting with Western men on a regular basis changes these girls. It's like an infection. Hence why terms like “Americanized” and “Westernized” are used in an almost derogatory fashion on most of the forum

You make a reasonable argument, but I wonder if you're not misplacing cause and effect.

If western guys coming over to Asia will make Asian women behave more like western women, then that may imply that women in the west changed because men changed first, which I don't think is the case.

In any case we should define who are these "thirsty Americans". Is it the degenerate whoremongers? Socially awkward weirdos without friends? Or just normal guys who 50 years ago would have easily been married by 25, but in the present can not figure out how to get their dicks inagurated as one of the rides on the carousel and starved for female attention end up LTRing 5s or 6s in Asia when they could have made 6s or 7s if they got laid at home a bit?

What exactly is the problem of these "thirsty" guys? What is their specific behavior which is so bad? How do they act differently from Asians or from western men 50 years ago (except in that they aim lower)? I do not think anyone has yet laid this out - so no wonder nobody's sure what the debate even is.

Quote: (01-02-2016 08:42 PM)RichieP Wrote:  

Good question. It's just opinion, but here's my take:

Sleazy sexpat: Tends to be vulgar, offensive to locals, seeks only to get his rocks off and doesn't care who he offends along the way. Relies largely on his foreigner status to get sex, sees no need to learn game or create value. Treats girls like trash. Tends to hook up with desperate girls drawn to him because of white skin / cash /gullibility. Generally found in dive bars swilling beer and complaining loudly about the local culture. Get's minimal results in western countries. Generally someone to avoid (IMO).

True player: A creator, writes his own adventure. Socially skilled. Does things discreetly and smoothly. Despite playing the field, treats girls well and leaves them happy to have known him. Cultivates relationships with high-status/interesting locals and expats alike. May leverage his "exotic foreigner" status, but doesn't depend on it exclusively. Relies on strong social skills and solid game. Can do well on home turf and western countries as well as Asia. Generally someone worth knowing (IMO).


Both are gross stereotypes of course. You'll find all manner of expat abroad and they won't neatly fit into boxes, but... you get the idea.

It comes down to the distinction between player and sex tourist. Very subtle but very real.

When I see this Bond dude winding up the locals, it really brings up the bile. If you're getting responses like that, from men or from women, you need to recalibrate. Don't post that shit on youtube as an example of your outstanding frame control. Smugness is detestable, whoever you are.

You can't change economics, but you can govern your own behaviour. Don't act like a fucking teenager.

This is simply the phenomenon of the globalization of the dating market.

Obviously Asian dudes are going to be against Asian girls dating white guys, just as labor unions oppose trade deals with countries with cheap labor.

Why the hell would Asian guys want more competition? And why the hell would they want Asian girls to become more like Western girls?

Perhaps we have some ideal of that the true player will leave the girl better than he found her, but after dealing with a player from the Western world is the girl really going to be willing to go back to a local boring guy? And if not, how do you think the local guy feels? Now perhaps you can say that the local dudes should step up their game but China/Taiwan/Korea/HK is an intensely competitive society where guys don't have the opportunity to develop social skills. Some guys gifted with charisma or a large inheritance can get it done but the majority have no shot.

Perhaps some of it is xenophobia, but welcome to human nature. In any society that existed before political correctness, the local males never welcomed foreign males into their territory to fornicate with their women. That's what conquering armies do. Just look at the animal kingdom - do chimpanzees allow males of a different tribe in and allow them to mate with their women? Humans deep down are territorial and tribal - get used to it.

Now that we have the obvious truth out of the way, how do we deal with this, the simple fact that anti foreign male sentiment will doubtlessly increase in the near future in most of the love tourist friendly Asian countries. Step up your game and manners and class, call out douchebag behavior among your countrymen, get on good terms with local guys....etc

I haven't been in East Asia long enough to see if things are different now than before but I try not to holds hands in public with a local girl otherwise I get constant dagger eyes from the local men.

I think what's hurting David further is the perception (which might very well be wrong, but it's still what I'm sensing from that original promo clip that TravelerKai posted) that you get that being White is enough to warrant success. A 2 min clip is not much to evaluate a guy, but he chose to post that clip, and it is the vibe that many players on this forum felt from it, therefore the reason why some Heavyweight posters who've been/are living in Asia feel that it might ruin it for everyone.

And this thread got me thinking about a video i saw recently from Marc Lobliner at Tigerfitness.com. He was mentioning that we live in a generation that partly embraces mediocrity because a lot of people wants instant gratification, without doing the work that it requires. And I don't like Lobliner for fitness related reasons, but he's right on this one.

A lot of people (especially this month) will look to be losing weight by doing a crash diet for quick results. And it's the same thing in seduction! You got guys who almost never approached starting thread on how to get laid in the Phil and Thailand! Some guys didn't even read Game literature before going on trips! Roosh never preached about Game being easy, and a way for his main audience, which are white males, to forgo the hard work of developing game.

After being decent, that's when you go on a trip to experience finer women! Shit in the beginning I use to Daygame until I couldn't walk anymore due to the tiredness! Some people just want it easy I guess! In retrospect, I'm glad I got rejected by a lot of these Hoes when I started! Made me who I am now. I hope guys flocking to Asia will least know some Key Game concepts. And I also hope that David includes in his teaching that being a good looking white guy + Lots of Hard work = Pounding these Hoes way more a la Fisto

Quote: (01-05-2016 10:09 AM)Captain Gh Wrote:  

You got guys who almost never approached starting thread on how to get laid in the Phil and Thailand! Some guys didn't even read Game literature before going on trips! Roosh never preached about Game being easy, and a way for his main audience, which are white males, to forgo the hard work of developing game.

After being decent, that's when you go on a trip to experience finer women! Shit in the beginning I use to Daygame until I couldn't walk anymore due to the tiredness! Some people just want it easy I guess! In retrospect, I'm glad I got rejected by a lot of these Hoes when I started! Made me who I am now. I hope guys flocking to Asia will least know some Key Game concepts. And I also hope that David includes in his teaching that being a good looking white guy + Lots of Hard work = Pounding these Hoes way more a la Fisto

But the question is, should a guy with no experience with women start in a hard environment, or go somewhere easier and get a lot more experience in a shorter amount of time, and feel like a king?

I think it's highly rational for a virgin dude lets say at 20 years old to go to the Philippines and bang 30 girls, than to struggle in the States and maybe get a girl after a year of approaching. All those experiences in a foreign country will help him gain confidence.

You don't need true "game" to get laid in the Philippines. This even goes for certain places in latin america too. If you're a white dude (hell you can be pretty much any ethnicity in the phils) and you're in the Philippines, it's just soooo damn easy.

I don't know what idea you have in your head of "banging like fisto" in the phils. pretty much any decent looking white dude can put up those numbers, with essentially no real game.

I think the term "game" is overhyped. If all there was to getting laid was just "game" then guys wouldn't be concerned about places getting "ruined".

Don't get me wrong, being willing to approach, hold a decent conversation, isolate, escalate MATTERS, and if that's game then fine. But when we're talking about the "attraction" part of game, if you're a decent looking white dude, you've got that mostly covered and you don't need negs, false time constraints, and all that other bullshit. You go up say hi, if she's interested, it's pretty much locked. Also you can just use tinder and dating websites and not even have to approach if that's your style.

The fact is, if you pick the right city, the right place for yourself, game IS easy. It can be literally 100 times easier than a different city/country.

Quote: (01-05-2016 09:24 AM)churros Wrote:  

Quote: (01-02-2016 08:42 PM)RichieP Wrote:  

Good question. It's just opinion, but here's my take:

Sleazy sexpat: Tends to be vulgar, offensive to locals, seeks only to get his rocks off and doesn't care who he offends along the way. Relies largely on his foreigner status to get sex, sees no need to learn game or create value. Treats girls like trash. Tends to hook up with desperate girls drawn to him because of white skin / cash /gullibility. Generally found in dive bars swilling beer and complaining loudly about the local culture. Get's minimal results in western countries. Generally someone to avoid (IMO).

True player: A creator, writes his own adventure. Socially skilled. Does things discreetly and smoothly. Despite playing the field, treats girls well and leaves them happy to have known him. Cultivates relationships with high-status/interesting locals and expats alike. May leverage his "exotic foreigner" status, but doesn't depend on it exclusively. Relies on strong social skills and solid game. Can do well on home turf and western countries as well as Asia. Generally someone worth knowing (IMO).


Both are gross stereotypes of course. You'll find all manner of expat abroad and they won't neatly fit into boxes, but... you get the idea.

When I see this Bond dude winding up the locals, it really brings up the bile. If you're getting responses like that, from men or from women, you need to recalibrate. Don't post that shit on youtube as an example of your outstanding frame control. Smugness is detestable, whoever you are.

You can't change economics, but you can govern your own behaviour. Don't act like a fucking teenager.

The thing is, you're gonna have uber-beta chinese cockblockers try to fuck you up no matter how smooth your interactions are.

I was in Taiwan, and while taiwanese people are generally friendly, when it comes to white men with asian women, they HATE it.

That's why I guess I just have no sympathy for these xenophobic bastards. There's a chinese-indo club in Jakarta called Empirica. Every time you go in there, there's some psychotic beta-chinese dude that gets in your face, no matter how friendly you are, no matter how well-mannered.

I'm almost inclined to side with Bond for his actions. You're gonna side with the envious beta-males? Seriously? They will only be satisfied when white men never interact with asian women.

^
I didn't get the impression the asian dude was white knighting. He was just sweating Bond for acting like an overgrown infant.

I'm sure what you're describing in the club is true. But it's a different scenario.

Quote: (01-05-2016 10:47 AM)Tenerife Wrote:  

I'm almost inclined to side with Bond for his actions. You're gonna side with the envious beta-males? Seriously? They will only be satisfied when white men never interact with asian women.

Nah, best not to stoke the fire. It's their home turf, you're simply not going to come out on top with this behaviour.

I will say it again. I find it in bad taste to take videos of interactions with women. But again, this is just my generation.

But I do have some videos and pictures buried on my computer of dirty shit I have done in private with some girls who are into that. So its not really too different.

I am starting to question the hate for this Bond fella. He travels and slams hot ass. So do I. So do most of you guys.

Perhaps the main difference is he is probably making money off these types of videos so of course any drama they create will be good for business.

I have to give it him though, doubling down and fucking with all his haters is always good for a laugh in my books. Well played.

Quote: (01-03-2016 09:55 AM)Tenerife Wrote:  

The big issue in asia, in particular the further north you go, is the shaming that asian men deliver to asian women for being around white men.

And? You think white men don't do that? You think white men in the South & Mid-West don't shame white women who want to get it on interracially?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3a8NEKBaCo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hIvY4uUPD4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukbh0eDKtW8


^Look at the dislikes videos like that have. Says it all, really.

And no, I'm not Asian

Quote: (01-05-2016 12:43 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Quote: (01-05-2016 10:47 AM)Tenerife Wrote:  

I'm almost inclined to side with Bond for his actions. You're gonna side with the envious beta-males? Seriously? They will only be satisfied when white men never interact with asian women.

Nah, best not to stoke the fire. It's their home turf, you're simply not going to come out on top with this behaviour.

I'm still of the opinion that live and let live is the best policy. I think most westerners going to asia are young and dumb anyways. The vast majority are budget tourists with a small percentage of guys on a mission.

Most western expats are also quite lame with only a few standout players like a few of the people on here. I think most of the lame dudes should be more worried about local girls fleecing them silly rather than of them taking some sort of "advantage" of the culture and women.

One thing that's being overlooked is also basic global economics. There may be a few more young white guys and assorted developed NE asian expats running around but tourism has actually taken a significant hit in asia.

Europe isn't doing too well and the U.S. is on shaky economic footing these days too. Asia to asia expatriates and tourism is growing but most run in different social circles.

Where are all these western hard dicks with disposable income going to come from?

Most will get the standard 2 weeks from their shitty job to "learn" a new culture. Some will be wasting their parent's money. A few will have their shit together but will be guys who can't hack it for any longer duration. A slim minority will stay and game anything significant.

There's only so many specialized occupation niches for western men in these countries and english teaching jobs anyways. This isn't going to get better because most savvy and cunning businessmen in asia are going to figure out what the real value is when there's more than normal of these transient expats start showing up.

Long(er) term immigration to Asia is a fantasy (or nightmare) for most guys without means and the vast majority of local asians in every country in asia don't care about this multicultural nonsense promoted in the west.

The reality is very few guys out there have solid location independent income. We may know quite a few but it's really the social circles we run in.

So..this doom and gloom about people fucking up the scene and competition like it's LA on a saturday night is not anything significant to worry about.

No. white expats may not have solid location independent income. But a lot are working in these countries and are with hot local chicks. At least here in Jakarta, if you go to places like upscale lounges you will see a lot of white guy local girl matches. Looking at the girls, you would think that the expat guys are doing extremely well. Are they wealthy? probably not. Are they old? no either. A lot are just well off expats and younger guys too. Just few years ago, some forum members were complaining that the hotter girls are going after the younger guys from hard hit eurozone countries and are less interested in the slightly older crowd. Some are just working as normal jobs, like chefs, No, we are not talking about wealthy people at all. But these guys dress sharp. Definitely not your 50 year old gogo bar tourist on soi cowboy.

While the competition is still nothing for the 7s and below, for the 8s and above, the girls, especially those who speak well english, dress well, works with foreigners, and are hot and frequent the expat scenes, the competition is getting tougher. And for the short term tourist for a bang trip, you are down to compete these expats who have a better local social circle as well. The other point is that a lot of the hot girls are gong to the clubs are already going together as a group with guys they know. Are there still hot chicks around? ya sure a lot of them, but competition is just going to make life a little bit harder for the short term tourist at least.

Quote: (01-06-2016 09:50 AM)worldtraveler3 Wrote:  

No. white expats may not have solid location independent income. But a lot are working in these countries and are with hot local chicks. At least here in Jakarta, if you go to places like upscale lounges you will see a lot of white guy local girl matches. The expat guys are doing extremely well. Are they wealthy? probably not. Are they old? no either. A lot are well off expats and younger guys too. If they were in home countries, probably they will be batting 2 points below. Just few years ago, some forum members were complaining that the hotter girls are going after the younger guys from hard hit eurozone countries and are less interested in the slightly older crowd.

While the competition is still nothing for the 7s and below, for the 8s and above, the girls, especially those who speak well english, dress well, works with foreigners, and are hot and frequent the expat scenes, the competition is getting tougher. And for the short term tourist for a bang trip, you are down to compete these expats who have a better local social circle as well.

Jakarta is a little unique in that it has a scene with a very dedicated foreign carousel and expat orientated nightlife. Plenty of girls who specialize in that and run in those western circles exclusively. I'll even say this dedicated carousel riding circle is more than anywhere else.

WGF is big in Jakarta..maybe eclipsed only by Manila but with manila there's a huge variety.

The question is if you're getting edged out by western expats in those clubs how large is your social circle?

Do you have ANY local friends who will get you into another scene?

What I tend to see is a lot of guys competing for the same carousel riders too in some expat circles. It's guys replicating the situation back home overseas instead of expanding out socially.

what i was referring to is for the SHORT term tourist, who is going for a short bang trip for example. NO he or she will not have ANY local friends most likely to get him into another scene. (I am not sure if you were referring to me personally and asking about my social circle? I am not sure why you were referring to me personally?no need for that) I was referring to the short term tourist situation, not my situation if that was what was implied. IN any case, these are just observations anyhow. THE conclusion is that for the short term tourist, it is getting tougher.

However, if you are living in a city long term, you can most likely get a great social circle, a very large one if you like

BUT, these things require some time.

Quote: (01-06-2016 10:37 AM)worldtraveler3 Wrote:  

what i was referring to is for the SHORT term tourist, who is going for a short bang trip for example. NO he or she will not have ANY local friends most likely to get him into another scene. (I am not sure if you were referring to me personally and asking about my social circle?) I was referring to the short term tourist situation, not my situation if that was what was implied.

Hence my emphasis on social circle line. so i don't think we were talking about the same. I would also argue any relatively large metropolis (Jakarta, HK, SG,) in Asia has an expat oriented nightlife, with the exception of probably BKK). I

However, if you are living in a city long term, you can most likely get a great social circle, a very large one if you like

BUT, these things require some time.

The short term tourist scene will always be dipping into the shallow end of the pool. That was actually the point of my original post not sure how you misunderstood that.

Most of the demo visiting asia is from the short term tourist pool.

I'm well aware there are expat scenes throughout all of asia with varying quality. I live here in the region.