Don't take this the wrong way, but Osama Bin Laden may have had a point about the Saudi authorities not being worthy of custodianship of Islams holy sites.

Just like in almost any year you can think of there has been a stampede during this years haj, with an astonishing numbers dead. More than 700.

Quote:Quote:

At least 717 pilgrims from around the world were killed on Thursday in a crush outside the Muslim holy city of Mecca, Saudi authorities said, in the worst disaster to strike the annual haj pilgrimage for 25 years.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/2...RN20150924

The Reuters article further sates that the Saudis have spent $Billions on various crowd control features. But when massive loss of life continues you have to concede that either you haven't acted appropriately or, more likely, that the number of people involved makes it impossible to prevent stampedes and massive loss of life.

A solution may be to set the number of visa's/permits they grant much lower than at present. They are trying to marry a more than 1000 year old practice with contemporary population numbers. It's just impossible. Muslims will have to accept that not all of them will be able to meet their obligations to make this pilgrimage in their lifetime. Looking back on the history of stampedes, despite control methods, the numbers just don't work.

Quote: (09-24-2015 12:55 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

They are trying to marry a more than 1000 year old practice with contemporary population numbers. It's just impossible. Muslims will have to accept that not all of them will be able to meet their obligations to make this pilgrimage in their lifetime. Looking back on the history of stampedes, despite control methods, the numbers just don't work.

Nope.

Biggest Stampede since 1990, when 1400 people died. Will give Saudi govt some credit for spending millions to expand the area around stoning and making it 4 levels where stampede of this level didn't happen in the past 25 years. 4 level structure for stoning is magnanimous but still there is room for Improvement, Police etc are not trained in crowd control.

Saudi Govt is already blaming the pilgrims for causing the stampede although I have heard from someone who was in Mina that Stampede happened due to the arrival of a VIP and police making way for the VIP and diversion of people caused the stampede. I bet that story will never make it to news.

Who knows what exactly happened but nothing will change as there is a mindset among Muslims that It happened because it was God's Will and people who died while performing Hajj will go straight to heaven.

It has been said before, but there is something karmic about these Mecca incidents happening at/around the anniversary of 9/11. I don't want to make fun of the lives lost, it's just a weird coincidence.

700 people died by being stepped on while throwing rocks at stuff. Not only is Europe importing jihadists and extremists en masse, they importing morons, too.

Religion at its finest.

Nothing to see here.

Back when Vice sucked less they did a Hajj mini-documentary with footage founder Suroosh Alvi snuck out. Thought it was interesting and gives an idea what it's really like on the ground there.

I have a feeling people WANT to go there to die, since they all believe they will go to heaven and enjoy 70 pretty virgins all day every day if they die during pilgrimage. If your life mission is to go to heaven, why survive hajj pilgrimage and go back to smelling armpit? What is a better way to die than dying in the most holy place doing the most holy prayer? I think there is a silent agreement over there that provides ''halal'' euthanasia service to those who want to take the shortcut to heaven.

How else can you explain 700+dying in an outdoor arena simply because,

Quote:Quote:

Panic broke out when two groups of pilgrims preparing for one of the last major rites of their trip collided at the intersection of two narrow streets. Within minutes the tarmac was a macabre jumble of dishevelled, partially clothed bodies.

? Where is the fire? Where are the guns blasting? How can ''panic'' simply ''break out'' without a any real trigger? It's the same mentality as those cults that commit mass suicide.

1,300 dead now.

I watched the video and had to find the box of Kleenex.

Haven't laughed this hard in a long fucking time.

I read a great comment related to the stampedes. It went something like...

"Hundreds of people die while stoning the devil. I guess the devil doesn't like being stoned."

That being said, this year had both the crane collapse and now challenging the stampede record. I think that God might be trying to send a message to the pilgrims.

I think it'd be really easy to provoke these people. millions in one little area, if you yelled 'FUCK SHIAS!' or FUCK SUNNIS! in Arabic or whatever, half the crowd would go apeshit crazy and start killing eachother.

Maybe it is just me...but I have found less sympathy for religion over the years. In fact, I have become stone cold in that regard.

Quote: (09-24-2015 04:05 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  

I think it'd be really easy to provoke these people. millions in one little area, if you yelled 'FUCK SHIAS!' or FUCK SUNNIS! in Arabic or whatever, half the crowd would go apeshit crazy and start killing eachother.

Sort of like this when they are all walking around in circles

Quote: (09-24-2015 04:10 PM)Frekkesen Wrote:  

Maybe it is just me...but I have found less sympathy for religion over the years. In fact, I have become stone cold in that regard.

Religion has it's place, however it's more a cancer nowadays. Some more than others.

More and more people are turning away from religion.

Quote: (09-24-2015 04:14 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

God I love that movie, that scene is outright hilarious.

"I'M LISTENING TO THE FUCKING CALL THE PRAYER!"

Quote: (09-24-2015 03:03 PM)iop890 Wrote:  

1,300 dead now.

In 1990, 1500 died.

Now its 700+, and 800+ injured. BTW: A crane was falling down a couple of days ago. Death toll: 107. Let's put it altogether, shall we?

As to reasons for the panic, people in the far East have often been charaterized by a certain... impulsiveness

Quote: (09-24-2015 02:32 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Religion at its finest.

Nothing to see here.

Throwing Islam under the same umbrella as any other religion is disingenuous.

Islam gets it's own category at the bottom of the list. In fact, Islam doesn't deserve to be called a religion. Don't know what God they worship but the fact they idolize a moon rock shows ridiculous the entire "faith" is.

Quote: (09-24-2015 05:32 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (09-24-2015 02:32 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Religion at its finest.

Nothing to see here.

Throwing Islam under the same umbrella as any other religion is disingenuous.

Islam gets it's own category at the bottom of the list. In fact, Islam doesn't deserve to be called a religion. Don't know what God they worship but the fact they idolize a moon rock shows ridiculous the entire "faith" is.

Lots of religion idolize a person, idols, symbols, stars, etc.

Throw in ridiculous stories:

You know like a guy being murdered and coming back from the dead.

A boat with pairs of animals and the earth flooding.

A talking burning bush.

The list goes one, they're all ridiculous in my book.


I know you probably can't stand Islam and is seen at the bottom of the barrel but hey it's still shares history with the other 2 major ones, that make the trinity of religions.

That video about the Hajj.

The level of brainwashing a person can endure never ceases to amaze me. We all know about muslims and their religious fervour (even if often hypocritical), but seeing it is a whole different story all together. I don't mean other followers of the abrahamic religions are not fanatics too, though at the moment, God seems alive and well in Islam. And this is why the West can tumble when faced upon this. The Muslim World has a powerful even if vile and wrong ideology. The West at the moment has nothing.

Islam is a cult. If it had been Christian, the FBI would have stormed mosques long ago.

We have to realize that like any other cult, you can't reason anyone out of Islam, you have to approach it exactly like you would if you were to deprogram someone from Scientology.

I don't think this can be overstated enough. Islam is brainwashing through a cult, it is not a 'religion' as such. It is a cult and it indoctrinates people from such an early age with such ugly messages, that its adherents will likely feel extremely physically uncomfortable if confronted.

Quote: (09-24-2015 05:38 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

I know you probably can't stand Islam and is seen at the bottom of the barrel but hey it's still shares history with the other 2 major ones, that make the trinity of religions.

Not really. Islam just piggy backs on on the main faith and keeps killing people until they are forced to acknowledge them as "legitimate."

Quote: (09-25-2015 05:23 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (09-24-2015 05:38 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

I know you probably can't stand Islam and is seen at the bottom of the barrel but hey it's still shares history with the other 2 major ones, that make the trinity of religions.

Not really. Islam just piggy backs on on the main faith and keeps killing people until they are forced to acknowledge them as "legitimate."

Sounds an awful like some other religions out there.....

Guess we'll have to disagree on that one and leave it be.

I've talked to "Apostilic Christians" in rural America who reminded me of speed-freak violent biker gangs.

They took fat, low esteem women and turned them into slaves, and I'm not joking , one female patient I treated had been beaten while pregnant until she aborted.

It's not any particular Sky God that is used as a route to brutality although they seem to have their seasons of hatred for other religions maybe 800-1600 for Christians, Islamics are still partying with blood, it's the willingness to be brutal on the part of individuals that causes the damage from religious extremism.

Quote: (09-25-2015 05:39 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Quote: (09-25-2015 05:23 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (09-24-2015 05:38 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

I know you probably can't stand Islam and is seen at the bottom of the barrel but hey it's still shares history with the other 2 major ones, that make the trinity of religions.

Not really. Islam just piggy backs on on the main faith and keeps killing people until they are forced to acknowledge them as "legitimate."

Sounds an awful like some other religions out there.....

Guess we'll have to disagree on that one and leave it be.

Islam's wars of conquest have a death toll that easily dwarf any other religion on the planet. You're in denial.