[The Lizard of Oz]

DVY and others, for more reinforcement and understanding of the way CBT thinks about these things (which is very much in line with Samseau's posts above), check out Dusty's fantastic REBT thread, and consider reading along through Albert Ellis' great (and reasonably short) book:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-28873.html

[Dalaran1991]

Lots of good advice here, especially on the anger issues. Anger IS energy, it's just that most of the time we channel that energy into destructive things like alcohol, getting mad, yelling at people etc. Instead, use that anger to fuel your gym session. Think about that bitch/douchebag when you are boxing. Use it to get your ass up and approaches even when you are dead tired.

I would like to chime in a bit about bitterness.

I think bitterness is a much trickier issues than anger. With anger you can usually trace the source to something immediate and direct. Bitterness however can be rooted in deep mental blocks that could take years to uncover.

Bitterness is particularly found among people who think they suffer from some forms of injustice, and they believe there's nothing they can do about it. If you are not successful with women you probably think you are suffering from injustice from women and the men who have it so easy with them. You also know that you can never have it as easy as a woman or as that handsome guy over there. The anger and lack of agency coupled together creates a brooding bitterness that clouds the way you see the world.

I used to be very bitter at the fact that I'm short and Asian. Sometimes I tried to find someone to blame but couldn't. There was no one to blame, not even myself. It's like you are angry and frustrated but you don't even know why. I remembered one night I was looking up surgery to make myself taller or to appear Caucasian.

I still feel that bitterness to a lesser degree. What works for me is to dissociate my situation with whatever that made me bitter (race and height). I realize that my race and height will never change, but my situation CAN change. And that I'm unhappy because of my situation, not because of my race or height. If I'm pulling hot HB8 blondes on the regular I wouldn't give a rat ass about my height or race.

The tricky thing is that the mind is conditioned to latch onto some beliefes that promotes inaction. You can't just tell your brain to stop being bitter and get out there. You have to take action and let the results do the psycho-reconditioning. When I started seeing with my own eyes that I can pull white chicks my head started to believe, and my bitterness slowly fade away.

Find out what it is that you are angry and bitter about. Be careful not to confound the root cause with the surface problem. Once found, take actions to change it. Use that own bitterness against itself to fuel your energy to change.

It's also very important to STOP comparing yourself to other. The mind loves to find examples that confirms it's bias. If you are average looking you will always seem to notice that hotter guys are pulling girls then you tell yourself there's no point trying. Accept the fact that other people will do things you probably can't, but so will you. Would those people achieve what you achieved if they walk in your shoes? The only person you can compare yourself to is yourself from yesterday.

[Mister X]

(01-25-2015 05:05 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Lots of good advice here, especially on the anger issues. Anger IS energy, it's just that most of the time we channel that energy into destructive things like alcohol, getting mad, yelling at people etc. Instead, use that anger to fuel your gym session. Think about that bitch/douchebag when you are boxing. Use it to get your ass up and approaches even when you are dead tired.

I would like to chime in a bit about bitterness.

I think bitterness is a much trickier issues than anger. With anger you can usually trace the source to something immediate and direct. Bitterness however can be rooted in deep mental blocks that could take years to uncover.

Bitterness is particularly found among people who think they suffer from some forms of injustice, and they believe there's nothing they can do about it. If you are not successful with women you probably think you are suffering from injustice from women and the men who have it so easy with them. You also know that you can never have it as easy as a woman or as that handsome guy over there. The anger and lack of agency coupled together creates a brooding bitterness that clouds the way you see the world.

I used to be very bitter at the fact that I'm short and Asian. Sometimes I tried to find someone to blame but couldn't. There was no one to blame, not even myself. It's like you are angry and frustrated but you don't even know why. I remembered one night I was looking up surgery to make myself taller or to appear Caucasian.

I still feel that bitterness to a lesser degree. What works for me is to dissociate my situation with whatever that made me bitter (race and height). I realize that my race and height will never change, but my situation CAN change. And that I'm unhappy because of my situation, not because of my race or height. If I'm pulling hot HB8 blondes on the regular I wouldn't give a rat ass about my height or race.

The tricky thing is that the mind is conditioned to latch onto some beliefes that promotes inaction. You can't just tell your brain to stop being bitter and get out there. You have to take action and let the results do the psycho-reconditioning. When I started seeing with my own eyes that I can pull white chicks my head started to believe, and my bitterness slowly fade away.

Find out what it is that you are angry and bitter about. Be careful not to confound the root cause with the surface problem. Once found, take actions to change it. Use that own bitterness against itself to fuel your energy to change.

It's also very important to STOP comparing yourself to other. The mind loves to find examples that confirms it's bias. If you are average looking you will always seem to notice that hotter guys are pulling girls then you tell yourself there's no point trying. Accept the fact that other people will do things you probably can't, but so will you. Would those people achieve what you achieved if they walk in your shoes? The only person you can compare yourself to is yourself from yesterday.

Such a great fucking post. Totally agree. I think anger is usually an isolated incident that can and should be channeled into something positive. Rejections make me angry and I use that as fuel to work out even harder, be bolder, have a more don't give a fuck attitude, etc.

Bitterness is harder to overcome and it is something that can continue to build and harbor within you if you let it. I too am short, and my bitterness stems from the acceptance society has with discriminating short men. I see that nowhere else. Overweight women have defenders, flat chested women have defenders, all different ethnicities/religions/sexual preferences have defenders. If you're short? No one. I mean -- sperm banks have a height requirement. Most places require you be to be at least 5'10 in order to donate jizz. That's blatant discrimination yet perfectly legal and no one says anything. Which is also another part of it - if you're short, you have a bunch of non-short people telling you to get over it, that it's not a problem, that it's in your head, that you look insecure for bringing it up, etc. It is what it is.

You really can't focus on all that though. It's not within your control. All you can do is improve yourself in every area you can.

I will admit my frame/state of mind/confidence level/etc is largely dependent on how well I do at any given time. If I'm in a cold streak, I'm going to be bitter. Not sit at home and wallow, but I'm going to be less pleasant to be around. If I'm on a hot streak, I'm loose and fun and everything is good.

They tell you to be outcome independent but I'm still not entirely sure how to do that. If you're approaching a girl/texting a girl/asking a girl out/etc - it's because you find her attractive and want to hook up. When she rejects you, she's saying "sorry, I don't find you good enough to do that." I can't see how that doesn't fuck with someone even a little bit. It's natural to feel hurt when someone says or expresses nonverbally that they don't see you in a romantic way.

And we're all gonna have those moments, I don't care who you are. But it's all in how you manage it. Never get too high or too low in this game. Because no matter who you are, you're gonna take some losses.

[DVY]

I came up with a quick aphorism at the bar last night

"Another day, another dollar, another girl." It really does sum my life.

The game keeps moving.

I've done all the classic way of overcoming bitterness and anger (more women, alcohol, booze, TV, weed) , but the first step is to let go. The second is to reflect on the situation, and the third is to forgive yourself. Most mistakes we make are small, but our emotions blow them way out of proportion.

Let the tide rise and fall, and you shall remain stronger than ever.

@lizard of oz- thanks bro. Ordered the book

[Fortis]

I began my game journey less than a year ago, so I have some fresh input on this.

One thing that helped me transcend some of the anger was developing abundance. It's hard to be mad at one girl when you can text a few other chicks and try to line dates up for the next few days. It's almost like how you almost not as hungry all the time when you know food is right within your grasp.

Don't focus so much on those chicks that hurt you and blew you off because most girls aren't going to like you. Focus instead on pushing your interactions with the more accepting women.

Today I had a girl give her number on OKC, text back and forth with me to set up plans then suddenly stop replying. I was kinda puzzled, but I said, "Fuck it. I'll just put in work on something else."

Try and develop some abundance by pounding the pavement and getting some sort of successes under your belt so that one girl doesn't have so much power to ruin your day and control your emotions. I still struggle with this, but I think it's valid.

I won't pretend that I've mastered this concept, but I'm much farther along than I was back in may, so I'm thankful for that.

[GyopoPlayboy]

(01-28-2012 10:40 PM)wolf Wrote:  

How did you work through the Anger/Resentment/Bitterness?

Edit:

When you're trying to get them they tell you to f*ck off. When you're with them they are constantly pulling you down, never loyal to you(mentally/physically), and the fact that they can get laid like nothing while I feel I slave for something that sucks anyway.

I'm gonna go on the opposite side here and say maybe you need to check yourself...see what it is that's prompting these kinds of negative responses.

in my experience, most women will NOT disrespect men who they see as high value. Maybe you're doing something, or there's something in your behavior, that's eliciting those kinds of responses?

Just be honest with yourself. Are you coming across the exact same way as the last 5 guys who just approached her? Do you act/say shit that DLVs you, causing them to pull you down further? Are they not loyal because they don't see you as a worthy alpha male? Are you of sufficiently high value and worth to be pulling girls as easily as girls pull men?

Too many of us think we're hot shit and deserve 9's and 10's without any effort. The vast majority of us need to accept the fact that we're just average joes, give or take. Too many of us think our game is hot shit, when it's probably right around average. It's important to get a good sense of reality/the competition. Hurts the ego, but I've always believed that if you refuse to even identify the problem, you'll never be able to fix/improve it.

As I write this, I'm with a girl I met off Tinder who's a 6, maybe a 7 at best, who's got several tall, muscly, good-looking guys on rotation. I don't like sharing my girls, but I want her just badly enough for this arrangement to make sense for me.

Still can't believe a 6 has those kinds of options... This reality pisses me off sometimes too brutha, but we keep on moving forward.

[CJ_W]

(01-28-2012 10:40 PM)wolf Wrote:  

How did you work through the Anger/Resentment/Bitterness?

Edit:

When you're trying to get them they tell you to f*ck off. When you're with them they are constantly pulling you down, never loyal to you(mentally/physically), and the fact that they can get laid like nothing while I feel I slave for something that sucks anyway.

Spin more plates.

The more plates you spin, the more you get laid, the more you simply "forget" about all the bitterness, and just have fun banging hot and fun women, and not wifing them up, LTR'ing them up etc.

Then work on what your passionate about whenever you can, turn off the tv, and radio, and bam, you pretty much just forgot about all that, of course moving out of the west helps as well if you can.

[Hardy Daytona]

I think that when you've been angry for a long time, you get used to it.
It becomes.....comfortable, like old leather.
And then one day you wake up and realize that you can't remember feeling any other way.

[lycosidae]

Not sure spinning more plates is going to make a guy less bitter.
Problem is definitely expectations.

I reached a point where I was spinning a bunch of plates and all of a sudden I blew it all up. I stopped contacting girls. I stopped dating. I had a series of bad experiences where I thought I was being mistreated. This was overall no good. I got depressed. Started drinking... And it was kind of a low point for me. I was yearning for "someone worth keeping around". Yearning is bad for game.

My expectations were seriously out of wack. When I adjusted them, things started to change for me. I stopped holding expectations of the women I dated. I was overall much happier about the experiences I was having even when there were failures or some missed opportunities. This doesn't mean I ignore when girls disrespect me. I just don't let those things bother me. I silently calculate the value of this interaction beyond the bang.

While it's good to have "high expectations", people with high expectations are fairly unhappy people because those expectations are difficult to meet.

I also agree with the posters who say check yourself --
If you're finding that you are routinely mistreated, that's a problem with the kind of girls you're approaching. If you're only dating 20 year olds, for example -- you can't expect much from them except immaturity. College girls have no responsibilities to ground them in reality. Just go with the flow and hold no expectations. As I get older, I realize that I can no longer stand interacting with really young girls. I may be physically attracted to them, but the immaturity and lack of substance really overrides my motivation to talk to them even if my intention is just banging.

[Giovonny]

I used to have a lot of anger. Mainly, because I was physically abused as a child. (my moms boyfriend used to beat the shit out of me) (I'm lucky he didn't kill me, him and my mom were on drugs)

I talked to a few therapists, counselors, psychologists, etc.

Sometimes they were helpful, sometimes they were not.

What saved me was two things:

1) Having a Support System.

2) Studying the topic of Anger Management.

I had an aunt, a grandmother, a friends mom, and a few teachers/coaches who really helped me. They talked to me, listened to me, loved me, and supported me. Without their love and kindness, I might have gone on to express my anger in terrible ways.

I also looked at books about anger and children who had been abused. I read stories about children who were just like me. I read about children who had it much worse than me. I studied anger, what causes it, how to diffuse it, etc. I educated myself on the topic. This gave me a better understanding and perspective.

Also, I had an outlet to express my anger. I boxed and played sports.

We need an outlet to express out anger! This can be sports, art, music, writing, talking to people, etc. Something that allows you to vent and relieve some pressure.

I think a little bit of anger is okay. We can use it as fuel and motivation. We just have to harness it in a healthy way.

Basically, what helped me was having quality relationships with smart people and educating myself about my issue.

*****

In regards to anger against women..

What helped me was to improve myself, fix myself, fix my game, become attractive and start to get better quality women that made me forget about the girls from yesterday.

[Ingocnito]

(01-25-2015 05:43 PM)DVY Wrote:  

Most mistakes we make are small, but our emotions blow them way out of proportion.

Let the tide rise and fall, and you shall remain stronger than ever.

Abundance mentality doesn't cure all, but it sure as hell helps nudge you in the right direction.

Friday night, Tinder meetups not responsive, went out solo (flake response mechanism essentially) and snagged a 7 who wouldn't fuck, but got numerous makeouts and a Warm#.. I almost didn't go out either. Sat night, Tinder bitch calls late, wound up in hotel..check. Sunday night had LTR ex screaming at the top of her lungs in my doorway in the apartment complex saying I was cheating, but we were broke up, so I wasn't cheating. She nearly made me late to another Tinder date with a nice 7, tight body, that ended in kisses, a future date, and really good vibes.

IMHO this is the kind of activity that ushers in getting over anger, resentment, and bitterness. Women who don't "mostly" play by the rules get nexted, but an LTR who doesn't entirely play by the rules get's completely dropped off the emotional ladder.

Above all, the most important thing this activity forced me to do was step way back and see the big picture, and be more comfortable with myself.

[lycosidae]

(01-26-2015 02:57 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

We need an outlet to express out anger! This can be sports, art, music, writing, talking to people, etc. Something that allows you to vent and relieve some pressure.

I don't think that helps at all and it's part of the problem.
I too am from a background of abuse and had to sort through my demons... for a while my whole thing was to talk about my issues. My relationships hinged on this idea of emotional openness and (gasp: poetry). However, the more I talked about being damaged, the more I believed it. It was like a self-fulfilling prophecy that was holding me back.

I'm firmly a behaviorist now. If you don't like being angry, stop being angry. If you can't control a situation, change your mind about it. These ideas have helped me mend things with my family and move on from all the anger I had in the past. I simply stopped accepting that my feelings mattered at all - and all that really matters is what I'm going to actually do from this point forward.

Our culture is so self-absorbed and I think the whole "Express yourself" thing is pop psychology at its best. I think most young people would be less fucked up (particularly the self-described transgendered ones) if there was less value placed on feelings and more on tangible and important ideas for the good of the society: being a good citizen, having the right moral values, caring about your community, valuing hard work, and having principals that guide your social interactions (like reciprocation and respect for elders). Notice all of this requires behavioral change... None of it entails writing down feelings or laying on a couch and talking about it because ultimately that's bullshit.

We're a generation that has been told that our feelings matter. Let's reject that, it's not getting us anywhere.

[void]

Thanks for reactivating this thread, great posts so far.
I am currently trying to dig myself out of a real bad resentment and down phase. One big reason is, that I lost my routines after relocation (trying to build them up again: fewer working hours -> gym; improving foreign languages; optimizing cashflow).
Second. If you are down, you recall all this other shit you thought you don't care about anymore. There are situations that create real strong negative mindsets, so strong, that it either takes a long time to overcome or real positive experiences to reset. Positive reconditioning, to reestablish a frame where you can act in a positive target and goal oriented way again.
So I can chime in on the post above, that taking action is the first and only necessary step to get back on top.

[LAX]

Anger is a nature response. The question is do you let it destroy you with its power and make bad short term decisions or do you use it was fuel to empower you to build the right path, lifestyle, journey.

You will always feel anger when dealing with things out of your control - and nothing is more out of control than attracting and keeping girls that you want to be with. In this world - you will receive opportunities for anger on a daily basis and especially with girls when they are on the hotter side of the scale.

Instead of letting anger envelope you and force you to indulge in some near sighted action that gives you temporarily relief - focus on how you can use that anger to self improve. Work out, push yourself to get better. USE the anger dont let the anger USE YOU.

Its easy to write words on a page and expect someone to change their behavioural patterns. This is some deep level shit. I'd say end of day lie down and THINK about the situational anger, what you can do to get better and most past it. Being gratefull is super important too. You could be dying every day in Syria or living day to day in Africa trying to find bread for the next day. Being grateful squashes negative emotions.

To summarize:
- understand where the anger is coming from & why its happening
- think about how to use the anger - emotion/plan/decision/execution
- tomorrow is an easier day. Take a break and do something you like

I had terrible anger issues growing up and it led to a lot of destructive behaviour and relationships. I've learnt to control it but I know its there and sometimes it might come out like a demon and force me to do something I'll regret. But until then I try to use it.

[DVY]

I gave this thread a read and per chance my EX hit me up saying "I hate you, blah blah blah".

I calmly broke it down to her and wished her the best of luck in her future.

Man, did I feel better. Just let that poison go. It does you no good. Accept you are flawed and that you will continue to make mistakes in life. Theres no way about it.

At the end of the day its epitomized in this quote:

"Grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change, courage to change the things we can, and wisdom to know the difference."

[Mister X]

Any psych major dudes here that can explain why negative experiences can linger for weeks and months but positive moments don't last as long?

I mean a dude can have a threesome with two knockouts and be happy for 2-3 weeks off that experience alone, then have a cold streak of 3-4 rejections in a week and a downward spiral begins.

[The_CEO]

I haven't read them but I noticed that Albert Ellis who wrote about REBT (that Dusty reviewed in another part of the forum) has at least one or two books on dealing with anger on Amazon.

I'd also look into meditation or "mindfulness". Learning to be in the present and not seethe about the past.
It also can help to forgive people (in your heart) who may have wronged you. I'm not talking about forgiving them in person... but accepting that people are fallible, and letting it go. Otherwise it can eat it at you, wreck your health, and also steal more of your life.
There is some quote I recall, "Forget the past so it doesn't steal your present". Something along those lines.