[Blackhawk]

When Sarah Watts’s 16-year-old daughter Alicia asked if her boyfriend of three months could stay the night, she wasn’t outraged or upset. Instead, she responded in a way that would horrify many parents — she went out and bought Alicia a double bed so she could sleep with boyfriend Matt in comfort.

Now 17 and a sixth-former studying for A-levels, Alicia and Matt, an 18-year-old photographic student, spend many nights together under Sarah’s roof.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/articl...-home.html

[Caligula]

That's the norm throughout Europe. When I was 22 I saw an 18 year old girl for a while and I regularly stayed at her parents' house in London.

I was surprised when I discovered it was different in the US. At university I dated an American girl. One summer I went to visit her parents house in Connecticut. It was my first time in the US since childhood. I was taken aback at having to sleep in separate bedrooms. I'd set the alarm at 6am and sneak into my own room after sleeping with her all night. The parents knew we were fucking but just didn't want to have to acknowledge it.

European way is preferable to having teens sneaking around to fuck.

[Basil Ransom]

Is anyone else always moderately surprised when they see an attractive British girl, who isn't a model?

[Caligula]

(01-26-2012 02:54 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Is anyone else always moderately surprised when they see an attractive British girl, who isn't a model?

Hah, after living in London for years I can assure you they're not as rare as you might think. They do age terribly, though. And they're mostly not much fun to be around either.

[Donald Duck]

This is nothing in Western Europe. My cousin's 15 year old step sister has 20 year old guys sleeping over regularly.

[Caligula]

When I was 15 I went on an exchange with a German school. There was a 14 year old girl in our host class who was dating a 25/26 year old guy. He would stay over and hang out with the girl's parents. Apparently this is not unusual in Germany.

[Excelsior]

(01-26-2012 03:04 PM)Caligula Wrote:  

When I was 15 I went on an exchange with a German school. There was a 14 year old girl in our host class who was dating a 25/26 year old guy. He would stay over and hang out with the girl's parents. Apparently this is not unusual in Germany.

Tell this type of story to the average American and just watch the reaction. I can already see them turning beet red, tossing out every ounce of shaming language in their arsenal and then calling for prison time. Some of the more strident feminist types will probably think about starting an NGO to combat this "abuse" and "pedophilia".

Puritans really are an unhealthy sort.

[Basil Ransom]

(01-26-2012 02:58 PM)Caligula Wrote:  

(01-26-2012 02:54 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Is anyone else always moderately surprised when they see an attractive British girl, who isn't a model?

Hah, after living in London for years I can assure you they're not as rare as you might think. They do age terribly, though. And they're mostly not much fun to be around either.

I was only in London briefly, for a matter of a few days, and the UK not at all besides that.

I might've got the wrong impression, but it seemed like the lower class whites just had this inbred, stupid look to them, much more so than in America. You can find hot white trash in America, provided they're thin. Not so much in the UK. Britons in general often look a little inbred to me, and their faces perpetually squinty, pinched, strained.

(01-26-2012 03:10 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(01-26-2012 03:04 PM)Caligula Wrote:  

When I was 15 I went on an exchange with a German school. There was a 14 year old girl in our host class who was dating a 25/26 year old guy. He would stay over and hang out with the girl's parents. Apparently this is not unusual in Germany.

Tell this type of story to the average American and just watch the reaction. I can already see them turning beet red, tossing out every ounce of shaming language in their arsenal and then calling for prison time. Some of the more strident feminist types will probably think about starting an NGO to combat this "abuse" and "pedophilia".

Puritans really are an unhealthy sort.

The funny thing is, there are still a few girls at 19 or 20 who look 14 or 15, and they don't have guys avoiding them because they "look too young." The whole thing is manufactured. Personally, looking 14 years old is pushing it for myself, but within the range of normal.

There may be sound reasons to have an age of consent of 16, but it's just funny to see people put themselves in contortions saying that 15 year olds are absolutely positively not acceptable to desire, but 18 year olds are.

[joehoya]

(01-26-2012 03:10 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(01-26-2012 03:04 PM)Caligula Wrote:  

When I was 15 I went on an exchange with a German school. There was a 14 year old girl in our host class who was dating a 25/26 year old guy. He would stay over and hang out with the girl's parents. Apparently this is not unusual in Germany.

Tell this type of story to the average American and just watch the reaction. I can already see them turning beet red, tossing out every ounce of shaming language in their arsenal and then calling for prison time. Some of the more strident feminist types will probably think about starting an NGO to combat this "abuse" and "pedophilia".

Puritans really are an unhealthy sort.

Hell, if that 25/26 year old guy was an American, what he was doing would be illegal in the US today EVEN IF HE DID IT IN GERMANY. He could be prosecuted federally in the US for banging someone under 16 overseas.

[Wizard]

I have to admit this seems like a pretty sane move when it comes to dealing with teenagers having sex, but I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around the whole younger dating thing. Granted the place I come from tends to be pretty conservative about such things, and I have no doubt that has rubbed off on me.

[kerouac]

(01-26-2012 02:54 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Is anyone else always moderately surprised when they see an attractive British girl, who isn't a model?

We had some fine looking British exchange students at my school, and judging by their photos on facebook of their friends back home, I know they exist, but like in Argentina, the attractive girls stick within their social circles.

[Caligula]

(01-26-2012 06:32 PM)kerouac Wrote:  

(01-26-2012 02:54 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Is anyone else always moderately surprised when they see an attractive British girl, who isn't a model?

We had some fine looking British exchange students at my school, and judging by their photos on facebook of their friends back home, I know they exist, but like in Argentina, the attractive girls stick within their social circles.

Yeah they're much more likely to just be hanging out with friends, going to house parties, etc. Either that or getting bottles thrown at them at very high end clubs. You won't see many of them at your average mid-range venue in London.

[Deluge]

(01-26-2012 05:58 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

I have to admit this seems like a pretty sane move when it comes to dealing with teenagers having sex, but I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around the whole younger dating thing. Granted the place I come from tends to be pretty conservative about such things, and I have no doubt that has rubbed off on me.

Where did you come from Wizard?

[Wizard]

(01-27-2012 08:45 AM)P Dog Wrote:  

(01-26-2012 05:58 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

I have to admit this seems like a pretty sane move when it comes to dealing with teenagers having sex, but I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around the whole younger dating thing. Granted the place I come from tends to be pretty conservative about such things, and I have no doubt that has rubbed off on me.

Where did you come from Wizard?

I'm from Iowa in the United States; we're a Midwestern state, and while not as socially conservative as the south is, most people tend to try to follow the normal Christan rules, even if they rarely go to church.

This doesn't mean of course that teenagers aren't having sex, but it's not something there announcing to their parents or that their parents are prepared to consent to. There is a more of a "see no evil" approach to things.

[Deluge]

(01-27-2012 08:58 AM)Wizard Wrote:  

(01-27-2012 08:45 AM)P Dog Wrote:  

(01-26-2012 05:58 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

I have to admit this seems like a pretty sane move when it comes to dealing with teenagers having sex, but I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around the whole younger dating thing. Granted the place I come from tends to be pretty conservative about such things, and I have no doubt that has rubbed off on me.

Where did you come from Wizard?

I'm from Iowa in the United States; we're a Midwestern state, and while not as socially conservative as the south is, most people tend to try to follow the normal Christan rules, even if they rarely go to church.

This doesn't mean of course that teenagers aren't having sex, but it's not something there announcing to their parents or that their parents are prepared to consent to. There is a more of a "see no evil" approach to things.

I know Iowa, I didn't know it was that conservative though. Oh well, at least none of us were born in say... Saudi Arabia

[Wizard]

Quote:

I know Iowa, I didn't know it was that conservative though. Oh well, at least none of us were born in say... Saudi Arabia

It really depends where exactly you are in Iowa; the smaller towns are a lot less tolerant of this kind of thing, which I mean to say it doesn't stop anyone from having sex, but there is tremendous pressure to get married when someone gets knocked up because most kids aren't smart enough to use a condom.

The bigger cities are a little more liberal about such things, but people getting married young is common. Hell I'm the only one in my family to hit 23 without a kid, or marriage under my belt.

[Deluge]

(01-27-2012 10:43 AM)Wizard Wrote:  

Quote:

I know Iowa, I didn't know it was that conservative though. Oh well, at least none of us were born in say... Saudi Arabia

It really depends where exactly you are in Iowa; the smaller towns are a lot less tolerant of this kind of thing, which I mean to say it doesn't stop anyone from having sex, but there is tremendous pressure to get married when someone gets knocked up because most kids aren't smart enough to use a condom.

The bigger cities are a little more liberal about such things, but people getting married young is common. Hell I'm the only one in my family to hit 23 without a kid, or marriage under my belt.

Wow. I've been mulling over the article in the OP, the U.K and Australia are supposed to have really similar attitudes etc. but after talking to a few friends about it we all agree, it would be insane for a mother of a teenager to let their boyfriend or girlfriend sleep over that easily here. It just doesn't happen. I actually remember on the radio a long time ago a mother said she'd done it and everybody was attacking her for it.

It proves that even though two different countries with very similar backgrounds can have markedly different attitudes towards sex.

[Wizard]

(01-27-2012 11:48 AM)P Dog Wrote:  

(01-27-2012 10:43 AM)Wizard Wrote:  

Quote:

I know Iowa, I didn't know it was that conservative though. Oh well, at least none of us were born in say... Saudi Arabia

It really depends where exactly you are in Iowa; the smaller towns are a lot less tolerant of this kind of thing, which I mean to say it doesn't stop anyone from having sex, but there is tremendous pressure to get married when someone gets knocked up because most kids aren't smart enough to use a condom.

The bigger cities are a little more liberal about such things, but people getting married young is common. Hell I'm the only one in my family to hit 23 without a kid, or marriage under my belt.

Wow. I've been mulling over the article in the OP, the U.K and Australia are supposed to have really similar attitudes etc. but after talking to a few friends about it we all agree, it would be insane for a mother of a teenager to let their boyfriend or girlfriend sleep over that easily here. It just doesn't happen. I actually remember on the radio a long time ago a mother said she'd done it and everybody was attacking her for it.

It proves that even though two different countries with very similar backgrounds can have markedly different attitudes towards sex.

This is very true, and it's important for someone traveling to realize these rules. A guy going to another country is not going to get anything by being preachy, or bringing his cultural hangups with him.

These kinds of discussions can help give everyone a better insight into the cultural views on sex, and stop them from making any hasty assumptions. For instance, that England, and Australia would be pretty much the same, when in fact you point out there not.

[defguy]

@ Wizard Ive been to Iowa numerous times, mostly Cedar Rapids. Its not nearly as conservative as South/Central Texas. I went to a Karaoke bar with some family and I was shocked how many people arrive separately just started talking and went home with each other after about 20 minutes. It could have been social game since CR is a smaller town but it looked like quite a few of them were strangers before talking.

But I did notice extremely skewed dating ie guy is 6 or 7 and girl is 2 or 3. Do women make more $ then men in Iowa? I do know its a blue collar state.

[Caligula]

(01-27-2012 12:17 PM)defguy Wrote:  

@ Wizard Ive been to Iowa numerous times, mostly Cedar Rapids. Its not nearly as conservative as South/Central Texas. I went to a Karaoke bar with some family and I was shocked how many people arrive separately just started talking and went home with each other after about 20 minutes. It could have been social game since CR is a smaller town but it looked like quite a few of them were strangers before talking.

But I did notice extremely skewed dating ie guy is 6 or 7 and girl is 2 or 3. Do women make more $ then men in Iowa? I do know its a blue collar state.

This is similar to what happens in Iceland. Because it's so small and everyone is linked in some way, people are much more relaxed about hooking up and going home together. There's built-in comfort.

It's the opposite of what happens in places like NYC where you have to actively focus on building comfort for a while before you take a girl home.

[Wizard]

(01-27-2012 12:17 PM)defguy Wrote:  

@ Wizard Ive been to Iowa numerous times, mostly Cedar Rapids. Its not nearly as conservative as South/Central Texas. I went to a Karaoke bar with some family and I was shocked how many people arrive separately just started talking and went home with each other after about 20 minutes. It could have been social game since CR is a smaller town but it looked like quite a few of them were strangers before talking.

But I did notice extremely skewed dating ie guy is 6 or 7 and girl is 2 or 3. Do women make more $ then men in Iowa? I do know its a blue collar state.

I was talking about teenagers in general, and naturally college-aged people are going to have fewer problems with casual sex. Furthermore, your correct that some areas tend to be more conservative then others, but Cedar Rapids tends to be one of the more liberal ones as it is the second-largest city in Iowa. Furthermore, you have to remember that every town in Iowa isn't exactly overran with bars, etc. Most people that regularly go out tend to eventually meet the same person given enough time as there are few places actually to go out to.

The dating range is kind of horribly skewed, women in Iowa tend to have a very short shelf life. In high school, they can be really attractive, but they really go downhill fast afterwards. Usually because a lot of them have had a kid, or just surrender to all the unhealthy food that makes up the diet around here.

This trend is different only around the college campuses, but there the exception to the rule. I seriously doubt that women make more money as this is a state where agriculture is extremely important. The skewing as more to do with how quickly women go downhill here, and mostly how some guys just accept that.

[Spike]

(01-26-2012 03:04 PM)Caligula Wrote:  

When I was 15 I went on an exchange with a German school. There was a 14 year old girl in our host class who was dating a 25/26 year old guy. He would stay over and hang out with the girl's parents. Apparently this is not unusual in Germany.

I'm not German but the next door neighbor. i can tell you that's NOT normal in any European country. A 25 year old with a 14 year old girl is not normal and the parents must be inbred morons.
I can imagine a young teenage girl having a crush on an older guy but the guy and the parents should know better.

Germany has 80+ million people , ofcourse there are odd families around. There was also a serial killer who ate his victims and the victims knew they were gonna be eaten and they agreed to it. Usual or unusual ?

[azulsombra]

(01-26-2012 03:04 PM)Caligula Wrote:  

When I was 15 I went on an exchange with a German school. There was a 14 year old girl in our host class who was dating a 25/26 year old guy. He would stay over and hang out with the girl's parents. Apparently this is not unusual in Germany.

How long ago was this?

[Caligula]

(01-27-2012 10:02 PM)azulsombra Wrote:  

(01-26-2012 03:04 PM)Caligula Wrote:  

When I was 15 I went on an exchange with a German school. There was a 14 year old girl in our host class who was dating a 25/26 year old guy. He would stay over and hang out with the girl's parents. Apparently this is not unusual in Germany.

How long ago was this?

About 11 years ago.

[Timoteo]

This is kind of like parents who allow their kids to drink at home, and in some extreme cases where parents smoke weed with their kids. They acknowledge on some level that the kid will do it anyway, so they want it under the safety and supervision of their own roof. Most American parent wouldn't allow a boyfriend to be in the same bed with their daughter under their roof, even if deep down they think they might be doing it somewhere else. It's a parent's way of telling their kid that they don't have to sneak around, and that your kid will be more open and discuss things. They'll never be afraid to tell you about anything that's going on in their lives. I wouldn't expect most American families to operate that way, but I definitely won't be critical of this woman or how they approach this in Europe. I find Europeans handling of sexuality to be healthier than ours here anyway.