Quote: (01-28-2012 10:13 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:
I think you pulled my statements out of context because I was just referring to the US from the standpoint of customer service.
No, I didn't. That's a legit consequence-part of the reason customer service is so good here is because it is not very difficult to sue someone for providing poor service or harming you in some way.
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As an individual, where else would you say is better place to live?
Off the top of my head? Norway.
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You may not like NYC, but as far options and stuff to do, does any other city have as much to offer? I haven't found one.
Lots of stuff =/= superior city.
There's a lot more to it than that.
Quote: (01-28-2012 10:26 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:
Also, the tradeoffs you have mentioned are no longer relevant to today's Europe. Leaders in Western Europe are desperately calling for changes in their labor structure to mimic the US. They simply can no longer afford the safety net that was only possible due to NATO and the Marshall Plan.
Yes and no.
In Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain (the nations doing most of the struggling and economic contracting in the EU), this may be the case.
In Sweden, Norway, Germany, Finland, Switzerland and Austria (among others)? Less so.
As for other less fortunate nations...
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In Spain, unemployment is now around 25% (that's just the general figure). In the UK, they have passed a law that forces young people perceived to be lazy to work for free. The EU is developing a framework that makes it easier for people to get fired.
...that only means its easier to get fired there than it was prior to the modern Eurozone crisis (which was triggered by the American made 08-09 recession, btw). That doesn't mean it is easier to get fired there than the USA, nor that it will be.
Even with austerity measures, nations like France are going to maintain significantly larger welfare states and safety nets than the USA currently does. Even in present-day crisis Spain, your average worker receives more mandatory vacation time and other benefits than our own do.
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In the public discourse in many Western European countries, leaders are pointing to the US as an example to follow.
And they won't get there.
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Even French President Sarkozy is said to be a not so secret admirer of the American system.
That was prior to the crisis. Keep in mind, it was the Americans who put them where they are (sovereign debt was an issue prior to 2009, but it was the recession that triggered this particular chain of events we see now).
Not everyone is happy with that, and not everyone (as a result) wants to mimic America completely the rest of the way forward the way you're implying.
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With respect to lawsuits re: physicians. I can tell you without question that the US is a far better place to be a doctor than in Europe.
Countries like France and Germany don't have the rigorous medical school path that doctors in the US have to undergo. In those countries, you enter medical school directly after high school (no undergrad), and though the education is largely free, you can only expect to make a middle class salary once you begin practicing ($60,000-$70,000/year). In the US, one goes to college, and then med school, and then residency, and then finally as a practicing doctor. Though many have loads of debt to repay, there's no cap on how much they can earn. A good doctor can easily rise to the top 1% income class in the course of a few years.
Sorry, I'm not convinced.
The lack of the rigorous and insanely costly gauntlet seems like a massive benefit to me, offsetting the lower potential earnings for the average physician outside of the states. You underestimate the very negative impact that debt has on livelihoods for physicians-
this article describes it quite well. That, and the length of their path puts tremendous negative pressure on their quality of life until they finally break through it all in their early-mid 30's.
The American doctor has a tremendously average higher debt load than just about anyone else. When you combine undergrad + med school, you could be talking about $300k+ easily-that isn't uncommon. Your hours are absurd through residency, and you can't overcome these issues until after you've completed 7+ years of post-undergrad schooling and training. You usually don't see the top 1% until your mid to late 40's, and that's assuming you're good-not every physician (or even most of them) will make it to that income bracket. That, and you still have debts to repay.
This is without accounting for the expense that medical malpractice and insurance puts on physicians here.
For the record, here is what
doctors elsewhere make, on average.
![[Image: GPpay.jpg]](http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/07/15/business/economy/GPpay.jpg)
![[Image: crsdoctors.jpg]](http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/07/15/business/economy/crsdoctors.jpg)
Specialists in the Netherlands and Australia actually make more than their American counterparts, while general practitioners are most well paid in the USA. Germany is way down there in both categories, but Canadian, French and British doctors (though lower paid than in the USA) are still paid quite well. Combine their lower-but-still good pay with less rigorous/lengthy paths to work and vastly lower (to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars) costs to enter their professions plus a stronger welfare state (pensions and guaranteed vacations) and I'm simply not convinced that its better to be a doctor in the US than in any of these nations I've just mentioned (save Germany).
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That European welfare system is spiraling out of control and is on its way out. Those good days are now gone and they won't be coming back. The problems in the US are relatively manageable.
No.
Conservatives would love for this to be true, but that isn't the case. Reality is as follows:
1. Welfare states have been rapidly expanding in recent years (particularly during the bubble years before the crash). That expansion will stop throughout Europe.
2. You will see serious contraction in a handful of European states, particularly Portugal, Spain, Italy and Greece. Here, welfare states will get significantly smaller, though they'll likely remain larger in scope than in the USA (read: don't expect American style healthcare, mandatory vacation and education policies to fully take hold in any of these nations, certainly not to our extent).
3. Not every nation in Europe is in the shitter-in fact, most are not, and quite a few are in positions similar to that of the USA in recent years. France isn't in a great place, but it isn't about to fall off of a cliff either (dealt with a downgrade but only by one agency, will see some austerity, etc). Many other European nations are doing significantly better. Their states will no longer grow, but will remain largely intact.
You're also forgetting the interconnectedness of the global economy. As I've said more than once, Europe is where it is now because of the USA-the recession (which originated here) triggered their sovereign debt crisis (which, admittedly, could have been caused earlier-sovereign debt's been a dormant issue in Europe for a while, it was simply America that lit the gunpowder at this particular time).
Europe, to some extent, goes as America goes. If America comes up (as you're predicting it will), then so will many of the struggling European economies, a fact that will bode well for the maintenance of their welfare states.
The welfare state isn't going anywhere. At the end of this crisis, your average worker in Europe is still going to have a larger safety net and more benefits than his American peer. American economic improvement will just make this more likely.
Any true future collapse of the welfare state will come as a result of demographic imbalances (read: not enough youth), not inherent inadequacies of the model.
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