[ElJefe]

I just had an awesome date. Or was it?

I have two dilemmas - not for my sake, but for hers.

Just met a 34-yo cop who I found off the net. She was fairly attractive, although time has begun to take is toll. Wrinkles around the eyes, the increasing prominence of her jowls that, before long, will giver her some semblance of a turkey. We talked briefly before she suggested meeting up, faster than any girl I've talked to online before. It was almost masculine how direct she was. I said sure, and she suggested I join her Thursday (yesterday) at a karaoke bar. And DAMNED if she didn't sing REALLY, REALLY well - especially on songs she obviously had practiced at. It was amazing.

I found that this lady was gaming me by showing off her best qualities, but I didn't mind. I just sat back, relaxed, and enjoyed her eager conversation. She was a professional dancer, had lived in London and Munich, and came across as a woman who was devoted to her relationships. I dropped a few subtle verbal traps to assess how much of slut she was, and my gut feeling was that this girl is starving for a man, any man, that she can keep (was definitely dumped in the recent past). The eagerness and earnestness made sense in that light. All in all, if I was 45, I would be very much in love right now.

But I'm not.

I'm 25. And I'm not going to get into a serious LTR with a girl nine years my senior, I'm not going to get her pregnant, I'm not going promise not to fuck other women because I expect most of my fucking has yet to come. She's already had her hey-day.

I might've been worried about whether or not she was a slut, but writing these words, I now know I hope so. I just want to fuck her a whole lot, but whether it's 1 night or 100 nights probably won't make much of a difference to me.

But for her… this is might be her last chance. LAST chance. She can't waste her time on unserious guys like me. So what do guys think I should do?

My own feeling is to do what it takes to get the first fuck in there ASAP (one date so far, at absolute most 2 more before sex, otherwise I bail), see how we feel afterwards, and if she wants to continue dating after that (reasonable probability) be honest that I'm not looking for anything serious. This I feel, will give me a chance for some cop-lovin' and her a chance to ditch me if she's smart.

Alternatively, I just tell her right now she's wasting her time - or at least tell her I'd like to see again, but that I'm not serious. What do you think?

Of course, at the same time - I want to avoid "sharing". I really don't like the idea of seeing a woman who's pseudonym is Suzy Semeneater. That might not be her, but if I can do or say something that will keep her for myself - while it lasts - that'd be nice.

[Scarlet_Terror]

Most people will disagree, but if she really, really is only interested in LTR stuff and will only fuck you upon that condition...I wouldn't lie to her just to get her pants off. She's already past her prime and that just seems cruel. But also don't go out of your way to disqualify yourself either.

Proceed with a no-strings bang if you can though. She might be down after enough booze.

[Caligula]

I agree that you shouldn't lead on a girl who only wants to settle down. But it's really not your problem and maybe she will like the consolation prize. Make no promises about an LTR and don't mislead her on that front. She's probably horny as hell and very experienced. I say go for it.

Just avoid doing LTR type things with her and be honest if she ever asks you outright. It's on her to do due diligence.

Banging a lady cop comes highly recommended from Mixx in any case: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-2185-p...l#pid76998

[WestIndianArchie]

(12-16-2011 05:04 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

But for her… this is might be her last chance. LAST chance. She can't waste her time on unserious guys like me. So what do guys think I should do?

1. It's not her last chance. If you found her sexy, best believe all the other orbiters @ karaoke want to put their dicks down her throat. Hell, I don't even know where you live or what she looks like, and I want to fuck her.

2. Stop being captain save a ho. She's not a damsel in distress. She's a cop, she can most definitely take care of herself.

3. Your only job is to pound her pussy so mercilessly and mind fuck her so much that your plan is one that she suggests.

karaoke girl - "I only accept el jefe's cock"
el jefe - "I fuck whoever I want, when I want"

Lotta chicks will glady offer up pussy for a few days of month with what they perceive to be an alpha.

The real battle here is your inner "good" guy, the one that takes chicks on karaoke dates, treats them with respect that they have not earned, that (mis)calculate a chick's sexual market value.

Women aren't the enemy, per se, but they definitely have competing and conflicting interests. They have just as much power IF NOT MORE than you do in these situations.

The other thing here is that a girl hung up on an LTR (that's also a cop) can truly fuck your game in other regards. You'll learn how "helpless" she is, when you cross her.

So I say, fuck her, fuck her well, do some really off the wall depraved shit on the first night you fuck her and do so repeatedly. Keep upping the ante and turn her out.

WIA

[ElJefe]

(12-16-2011 12:01 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

The real battle here is your inner "good" guy, the one that takes chicks on karaoke dates, treats them with respect that they have not earned, that (mis)calculate a chick's sexual market value.

Thanks for chiming in, WIA.

I didn't take her on the date. She practically asked me out.

I have not really treated her with respect one or another, I'm generally very friendly and open to most anyone - to a fault and it's not the trait of a natural leader, since it can often be construed as unseriousness or worse, abasiveness.

That said... yeah, the problem here is: people with character get ahead by giving. If you're a taker, you are setting yourself up for long-term failure, in your personal AND your professional relationships. Hence my question.

Those who get ahead are those who are perceived to give the most value. A lot of newbies to game misinterpret some pertinent messages and think they become happier if they are more assertive and take what they want, which is only partly the truth.

I was raised to be a "taker" by emotionally immature parents, but I've since learned adding value to the lives of others is the way to go. Might be basic stuff, but for me, it was an epiphany I only learned after moving away, trying to make it on my own, and fucking up multiple times at multiple things. But always for the same reason.

[WestIndianArchie]

(12-16-2011 12:18 PM)ElJefe Wrote:  

(12-16-2011 12:01 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

The real battle here is your inner "good" guy, the one that takes chicks on karaoke dates, treats them with respect that they have not earned, that (mis)calculate a chick's sexual market value.

Thanks for chiming in, WIA.

I didn't take her on the date. She practically asked me out.

I have not really treated her with respect one or another, I'm generally very friendly and open to most anyone - to a fault and it's not the trait of a natural leader, since it can often be construed as unseriousness or worse, abasiveness.

That said... yeah, the problem here is: people with character get ahead by giving. If you're a taker, you are setting yourself up for long-term failure, in your personal AND your professional relationships. Hence my question.

Those who get ahead are those who are perceived to give the most value. A lot of newbies to game misinterpret some pertinent messages and think they become happier if they are more assertive and take what they want, which is only partly the truth.

I was raised to be a "taker" by emotionally immature parents, but I've since learned adding value to the lives of others is the way to go. Might be basic stuff, but for me, it was an epiphany I only learned after moving away, trying to make it on my own, and fucking up multiple times at multiple things. But always for the same reason.

Argh, community dogma.

I think the taker/giver dynamic that a lot of the gurus and community pushes is ultimately sexist and doesn't give the girl an active role in her own life. That whole "value" mystery method school of thought does a lot to pollute the discussion.

Next level of the game is realizing that your target is an actual person who doesn't always have *your* best interests in mind, and often has *only her* interests in mind. She's not going to do what you think she's going to do.

Think about it, In exchange for giving you a good 30-60 minutes of sex every couple of days, she gets to occupy space in your mind. You're having a discussion with strangers over a chick you haven't slept with yet. You're already somewhat invested. You just need us to give you the go ahead to break her off.

If you're a grown up, you can sleep with this chick and deal with the fall out if there is any.

Please consider these scenarios
- She might be a wack lay.
- in her eyes, You might be bad in bed.
- The chemistry between the 2 of you when you're not sleeping together could be awful.
- she could have an Ex waiting in the wings
- she could get shot @ the job
- she could be the best thing that ever happened to you and you want an LTR...and she doesn't.

All sorts of things can happen, but you've already consigned this chick to a life of cats and McGuyver re-runs because you fucked her for a few months and then bailed.

If that ain't the biggest sign of hubris, I don't know what to tell you.

If you don't want to put it on her because it might be too much drama from her end for a LTR - then don't fuck her for that reason.

But you won't be the last guy that she deals with.

WIA.

[ElJefe]

Many, if not all, your points are valid. I'm only invested in this chick that I'd like the no-strings attached sex - I have too many prospects at this point to be attached to any one girl. That could change fast though. Because of the 9-year age gap, her being a bit weird, and all that, I wanted confirmation I was on the right track as indicated by the two alternatives I suggested in my OP.

I maintain that the only real, long-term, sustainable way to go about interacting with others is how you're going to make a positive difference to their lives, even just by being your natural self. Dubbing it "Mystery Method" is grossly inaccurate. All the greater "success" gurus talk about this - it's the red thread that ties all of it together. You could skip a lot of self-help literature with that mindset only.

She's coming over today.

She almost came over last night (on her own suggestion) but quickly realized she was putting out too fast and said "let's wait till tomorrow" to which I quietly assented.

I'm wondering if she's going to be fuckable when she shows up - she probably is having a hard time controlling herself.

Anyways, thanks WIA and to the rest for your points of view. Appreciated.

[Caligula]

Let us know how it plays out.

[Stitch]

Do it. After my marriage debacle because I put too much stake in planning for the future, I say keep planning for the future for your financial needs, but in the area of relationships enjoy what you have while you have it.

34 year old cop? It's not her last chance. I'm 41 and dating a 42-year-old who's actually bothered to keep in shape unlike 90% of American women, and we're having a great time for the moment. As you say, if you were 45, you'd be in love. So after you two are done, she'll find a 45-year-old that loves her. Hell, send her my way.

You're not going to ruin her by having a short, fun, enjoyable relationship. She'll probably enjoy the hell out of it. I'd say yes, be honest that you're not looking for marriage, but certainly don't shy away from a possibly really fun thing without even trying it out.

[xmlenigma]

Look. She knows you're 25 and will probably not walk down the aisle with HER. She knows that! Unless you tell her otherwise, and even that she would have a hard time believing.

She just wants some warmth & some company.. some fun, sex & some companionship. Keep it friendly, fun and non-serious.

It could be somewhere between blend of the following: a Friends with Benefits or Sugar Mama or Her Young Male Revision fantasy.

Have fun, dont lie to her and keep it light.

[Roosh]

Do you think she has worried about a man's needs and timeline before getting into a potential relationship with him?

Her game must be sharp for you to put her concerns before yours.

[Screwston]

I can only shake my head at guys who worry about hurting a girl's feelings...especially when she's an older woman! They know what they're doing when they get with a young guy.

[Tuthmosis]

(12-26-2011 06:32 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Do you think she has worried about a man's needs and timeline before getting into a potential relationship with him?

Her game must be sharp for you to put her concerns before yours.

Scathing, but 2,000-percent true.

@OP, you shouldn't go around intentionally doing anyone harm, but pursuing a bang from a girl that showed obvious interest is simply doing your job as a man. I think you got things a little twisted. No one is asking you to sign a relationship contract. This is classic case of overthinking something.

Unless you're dealing with a mental case, just bang away and resolve the consequences--if any.

[Tuthmosis]

(12-26-2011 06:36 PM)houston Wrote:  

I can only shake my head at guys who worry about hurting a girl's feelings...especially when she's an older woman! They know what they're doing when they get with a young guy.

I disabused myself of this a long time ago.

Older chicks (late 20s, early 30s), who have managed to take care of themselves, can sometimes seem very feminine, charming, and "cool." It's not surprising that a guy who doesn't know better can feel bad that they may "hurt their feelings" or "lead her on."

The thing is, you're catching them after they've left a trail of destruction behind them. They've ridden the cock carousel, but rather than get bitter and fucked up from it (they don't all end up that way) they've learned what works and what doesn't along the way. Keep in mind that if she's single, at this age, she's had up to 20 years of "dating" experience. That's why she played you like a fiddle, taking you to a karaoke bar and moving in on you with no hesitation.

These chicks had their fun, and now--because they think they've played their cards right--are ready to use their acquired wisdom to snare a quality dude. I see guys shacking up with these "cooler," older, still good-looking broads in the prime of their player years. The girl has juiced the fuck out her "fun" token (banging away and partying with impunity) and the guy has only started to cash in his late-blooming player status.

These girls are sirens--just a different type. Don't let yourself be seduced by this (admittedly more subtle) form of girl-game. She's putting you right where she wants all her men from now on: in relationship mentality.

Proceed as usual. Don't make special arrangements.

[Samseau]

I don't know what the hell is going on here. Are you having hang-ups of banging some old broad?

[ElJefe]

Well, I got the bang right after xmas (FINALLY). Then she started calling me 2-3 times every other day - it actually got kind of scary. We agreed to meet again, but I cancelled last minute because I was pretty stressed about my studies. Then she asked

"So... I guess we're through?"

I didn't have the heart to tell her I wasn't into anything serious, so I just told her I was busy with my finals, would call her when I was done (which was the day before yesterday).

Haven't called her yet, and she luckily hasn't called me, which is a relief. My hang-ups were basically getting her hopes up and misleading her, because she sure as hell was acting like we were serious all of a sudden - I don't like it when people do it to me, I don't see how I can justify doing it to others.

[FretDancer]

You need to be sure to tell women what you want from them so you avoid creating false hopes and illusions, if it makes you feel better anyways.

[xmlenigma]

After the bang, when in the "afterglow" was when you should've softly & firmly put up what you wanted with her. She would've accepted that.

Hence, not allowing your mind or her mind to go on a "guess work" ambiguous space.

E.g. This playette who was dating few guys & I was dating few as well and me closed one night. And, in the afterglow early in the morning before I left we talked openly... OPENLY.. about where I was in life.. how I enjoyed spending time with her.. and in a different time & place maybe we could've had more.. but my life at the time did not permit me to do justice to an exclusive LTR and I was okay with her hanging with other people.

She said, even though she felt like a hypocrite because she was also seeing other guys, but said if I was open, she'd just like to be with me.
I said its nice to hear you say that & know that. I appreciate you being open & honest, and that I would have liked to, but at that I had a busy lifestyle and was seeing others and I wouldnt be able to justice to an LTR.

I follow the "The Four Agreements" Google. Read it and it will help. And you could still contact her and keep it open.