[wolf]

Every couple of weeks I'm shocked at some of the information that goes through my mind. How can you expect any form of commitment(sexual or mental) from a woman?

I would like to settle down in my 30's but I agree with some of the posts from Do you feel left out? thread where some guys know the ways of women and wouldn't settle down with one.

I have a close friend who has fucked every one of his guy friend's gf's, and every girl friend of his ex wife. I don't dare let any of the LTR i am with close to him. Let it be someone else, but not him.

I don't need to go into story time and tell you how I've been burned and etc. My friend's solution is to tell her to go fuck who ever she wants. Even then his wife left him after the 4th boyfriend that she had.

How are you suppose to have a family and kids with something like that. I liked oldnemesis's answer of go fuck other people but let's stay together but even then they will run off. I don't want to be a bachelor my whole life and just because I move countries there will be new problems that arise.

[tenderman100]

(01-09-2012 03:53 AM)wolf Wrote:  

Every couple of weeks I'm shocked at some of the information that goes through my mind. How can you expect any form of commitment(sexual or mental) from a woman?

I would like to settle down in my 30's but I agree with some of the posts from Do you feel left out? thread where some guys know the ways of women and wouldn't settle down with one.

I have a close friend who has fucked every one of his guy friend's gf's, and every girl friend of his ex wife. I don't dare let any of the LTR i am with close to him. Let it be someone else, but not him.

I don't need to go into story time and tell you how I've been burned and etc. My friend's solution is to tell her to go fuck who ever she wants. Even then his wife left him after the 4th boyfriend that she had.

How are you suppose to have a family and kids with something like that. I liked oldnemesis's answer of go fuck other people but let's stay together but even then they will run off. I don't want to be a bachelor my whole life and just because I move countries there will be new problems that arise.

Women are always looking for better. Men are always looking for strange.

This is reality. The sooner we all understand it, the better.

[RaulValdez739]

War of the Roses

Check this radio program out.

[bengalltigerr]

Don't plan to settle down in the 30s, because that's when your game will be strongest.

[Walderschmidt]

I would settle down in the mid 40s.

[hydrogonian]

The new reality is that this is the de-facto social construct, specifically designed to undermine a man's ability to keep a family together.

Instead of committment being about virtue and values, its now about value. That is, a woman will only stay committed to you for as long as she percieves your value to be both higher than her own and higher than that of the other men at her disposal (although, I've witnessed a couple of exceptions to this rule). Therefore, most men have a decision to make. That decision is whether he wants to take a chance with a woman who is high enough value to him, to remain attractive, and his concurrently having to work to create the constant illusion of his higher value. OR he can committ to a much lower value girl and not have to work as hard as other men to keep his relationship together. The third choice is never committing.

I've seen men take all three approaches. By far, the least happy are the men who think that they can keep a high value girl (realtive to his own value) happy in the long term. Those men tend to have the marriages that die a slow agoanizing death, where he gets henpecked and challenged every day because the woman is subconsciously or consciously unhappy with her choice in men - becasue she sees men with higher value out there who she could easily get. Yes, these marriages can stay together for whatever reason, but, in general, I think that a lot of the miserable guys that you see out there are trapped in this type of marriage. Guys have to realize that the 10 who you were able to plant a ring on isn't going to be a 10, in your eyes, forever. Therefore, her value, to you, will wane and you'll still have issues. This is a situation in which the man will frequently be emasculated by the woman, as a matter of instinct (incessant challenges, digs, and henpecking), and cheated on if she gets an opportunity.

The most happy seem to be the men who committ to a slightly lower value girl (relative to his own value - evaluate where you are willing to make compromises). As long as a guy chooses well, I think that he can be satisfied in this situation, long term, realtive to the guy in the above example. Instead of having to constantly demonstrate higher value or provide increasing material value, her value reward is just being with you every day. That's a much, much easier situation on a man's psyche. The relationship should be more successful and pleasant, all around.

Men who have lower value looks CAN keep a higher value woman happy long term IF his game is ultra tight. That is, if its a part of his natural personality. I've never seen a man with learned game be able to spit it so well that the illusion never drops. If you live with a woman, yes you can still have generally great game, but there will generally be chinks in the armor that she will begin to obsess about. So, if you have learned game that gets you laid a lot, then thats fantastic. But I would take it slow with higher value women, if you are thinking about commititng, to see if you have what it takes to make them happy in the long run.

Players do great when they are younger. As they get older (50+), other than the ones who are shell shocked from a bad marriage, I have to be suspicious of many of them wondering if they wouldn't be overall happier having gone the family route. It's hard to know. I'm sure there is a mix of opinions at that point. If he never wanted kids, then he did well.

[Zep]

(01-09-2012 12:59 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

Instead of committment being about virtue and values, its now about value. That is, a woman will only stay committed to you for as long as she percieves your value to be both higher than her own and higher than that of the other men at her disposal (although, I've witnessed a couple of exceptions to this rule).

You can say the EXACT same for men with the slightest of twists, if your woman is not as hot as you'd want, and you're a cheat, you're going to cheat. I have seen this a gazillion times. Nothing new here, been going on for ages. What Irony, a forum of players talking about what cheaters women are, hahahahahahahahaha. Too much. Of course you have that view, guess who fucks you? cheaters. But, what about the rejections? How many rejections for one pickup? Those rejections include "I have a boyfriend" right? Right. They may like you, but they're not going to cheat on their boyfriends. You're conveniently forgetting this in your simplistic equation of things. I've known a ton of women who don't cheat. Some people just have low libidos man, some people are happy man, some people are too busy, some people are too ugly. Get real.

Quote:

Women are always looking for better. Men are always looking for strange.

Absolutist statements boggle MY mind considering the complexity of human beings. You'd think someone over 50 would do better than this trite statement. C'mon man, this is simply........not true! If you want to believe this, go right ahead. I've seen marriages work, and not work in equal amounts.

[OGNorCal707]

(01-09-2012 12:59 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

The new reality is that this is the de-facto social construct, specifically designed to undermine a man's ability to keep a family together.

Instead of committment being about virtue and values, its now about value. That is, a woman will only stay committed to you for as long as she percieves your value to be both higher than her own and higher than that of the other men at her disposal (although, I've witnessed a couple of exceptions to this rule). Therefore, most men have a decision to make. That decision is whether he wants to take a chance with a woman who is high enough value to him, to remain attractive, and his concurrently having to work to create the constant illusion of his higher value. OR he can committ to a much lower value girl and not have to work as hard as other men to keep his relationship together. The third choice is never committing.

I've seen men take all three approaches. By far, the least happy are the men who think that they can keep a high value girl (realtive to his own value) happy in the long term. Those men tend to have the marriages that die a slow agoanizing death, where he gets henpecked and challenged every day because the woman is subconsciously or consciously unhappy with her choice in men - becasue she sees men with higher value out there who she could easily get. Yes, these marriages can stay together for whatever reason, but, in general, I think that a lot of the miserable guys that you see out there are trapped in this type of marriage. Guys have to realize that the 10 who you were able to plant a ring on isn't going to be a 10, in your eyes, forever. Therefore, her value, to you, will wane and you'll still have issues.

The most happy seem to be the men who committ to a slightly lower value girl (relative to his own value - evaluate where you are willing to make compromises). As long as a guy chooses well, I think that he can be satisfied in this situation, long term, realtive to the guy in the above example. Instead of having to constantly demonstrate higher value or provide increasing material value, her value reward is just being with you every day. That's a much, much easier situation on a man's psyche. The relationship should be more successful and pleasant, all around.

Players do great when they are younger. As they get older (50+), other than the ones who are shell shocked from a bad marriage, I have to be suspicious of many of them wondering if they wouldn't be overall happier having gone the family route. It's hard to know. I'm sure there is a mix of opinions at that point. If he never wanted kids, then he did well.

Hydro, thanks for coming back to the forums, this post is full of golden insight and wisdom.

I think it's sad that dating, relationships, and marriage has become such a cold calculating decision (has it always been this way?), it almost seems that "true love" and "finding your soulmate" is an illusion in this cold modern world.

I almost want to be optomistic and believe that true love exists, a love that transcends everything, but like the OP I've been burned (badly), and seen it happen to so many other guys in one form or another, that it almost doesn't seem to make sense to commit your whole life and completely open your heart to one person.

At least as far as marriage goes, it seems that one is just setting themselves up for failure.

[Laner]

Well said Hydro.

I will chime in and say that one thing feminism has done in my benefit is filter out many women who are not competitive in careers. They give themselves a perceived lower value based on their jobs when in reality I (and I am sure a lot of you guys) dont give a shit what a woman does for a living. As long as she likes what she does, a more pleasant woman she will be.

I like women who have hobbies that do not have direct relations to their career (pottery, language, painting, skiing, camping VS. happy hours, conferences, lunch yoga, dinner staff meetings). A woman who is content with her normal hobbies is less likely to cheat I would think.

In short, I guess content women that are still boner approved are the best for LTR's.

[Pusscrook]

Gonna have to snap out of that perfect world.

Marriage, and any other forms of long term relationships(friendships, lovers, etc.) , are by nature, a speculative business, more so today than ever before. It has become a job. There are no guarantees that what is here today, will not be gone tomorrow,nor is there an exact formula for success in a marriage. You can blame it on people like Susan Anthony, media, friends, or whatever else your heart desires to blame it on, but the fact of the matter is, it is what it is .Today, people sacrifice for one another , but not necessarily for the unity of the relationship itself . You know this sacrifice as, "tolerance " , and this wretched word has become a poor excuse for ignoring behavioral patterns that you see prior to marriage, or, putting up with it after the fact. There are no guarantees that what is here today, will not be gone tomorrow, nor is there any exact "formula", for success. You are not dealing with robots, or machinery which upon your command will do as you please, forever. If one is seeking that which is "perfect", or near perfect, dedicate your love to a blow up doll, put a ring on its finger, and you will have no such problems. You can fuck it all night, beat it, never take it anywhere, you will be its only friend, and you don't even have to feed the bitch. Gee, isn't that just great?

Do your homework and then pick your poison. Surely you know it is a form of mental poison ,right? All we can do when seeking a mate, is to do as much homework/groundwork about the whore in order to minimize the risks when you do decide to take the plunge. Investigate beliefs, traditions, lifestyle, family, friends, thoroughly. This is a job, and it is up to you to vet the whore to the "umteenth" degree, before you hire the bitch for life. Your instincts about these things is the only measuring stick you have and pray that it is sharper than a barbers razor, when you commit. Hopefully, hers , will be just the same.

* " An ideal wife is any woman who has an ideal husband".

[Pilgrim37]

If you don't commit to someone you love and respect then you'll probably miss out on the chance to be civilized.

Always go with your gut and your heart.

How many chances do you think we get in life?
I've just turned 39 and I've been in love twice,first time was a bit of an illusion but the second was real...and I've lost both times,.
The last was recently and she was the one, I thought kids ,home etc so it still hurts .
But after socially hibernating for a while ,which is understandable if you're hurting, you've got to get out again and be open as you can.Difficult but you've got to force yourself if you find yourself turning in on yourself.
Otherwise you'll just turn into the male equivalent of the bitter and twisted women some guys write about on this forum.Or just end up found in an armchair surrounded by empty pizza boxes .

As the Kristofferson song goes:

I'd Rather be Sorry (for something I've done than for something that I didn't do)

There's always a tendency to "not love too much" in case it's taken away, but you've got to fight that,even if you've been burned.
What's the alternative?
A lonely or at least unfulfilled existence I reckon.

I think Roosh has written if you meet someone with character don't let them go.I think he's right on that.
Of course there's got to be physical attraction but character should be part of the attraction too,for a long termer at least...otherwise you're setting yourself up for a fall.

The great Aussie writer Clive James advises marrying your superior too..mentally that is,as it's damaging to have someone too dependent on you.You've both got to have some independent ,interesting lives,and whether you spend time together or separate it can last.
I agree with that.

You can watch this Great interview on Elders ,with him talking about a few of these things:marriage,life,work,time,relations,culture,control of one's life,being confronted by violence,writing,success,failure,fame,the role of chance in life, on this link:

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/elders/video.ht...s=20091130

[tenderman100]

(01-09-2012 01:27 PM)Zep Wrote:  

Absolutist statements boggle MY mind considering the complexity of human beings. You'd think someone over 50 would do better than this trite statement. C'mon man, this is simply........not true! If you want to believe this, go right ahead. I've seen marriages work, and not work in equal amounts.

I choose my words VERY carefully. I said "looking" I didn't say "acting upon."

Sure you can suppress the evolutionary instincts. And sure, there are some players who can make monogamy work, some women who will be appropriately submissive.

But there's a reason cheating percentages are high...assuming you even BELIEVE they are that that low and people are always telling the truth.

So, yeah, I stand by my statement. Let us know when you are married for, oh, 20 years like I was, and see how that all works out.

[hydrogonian]

(01-09-2012 01:27 PM)Zep Wrote:  

Instead of committment being about virtue and values, its now about value. That is, a woman will only stay committed to you for as long as she percieves your value to be both higher than her own and higher than that of the other men at her disposal (although, I've witnessed a couple of exceptions to this rule).

Well, correct. And painfully obvious to both me and everyone here. But I don't give a shit if my buddy cheats on his wife. I'm on his team. I don't want to see him get cheated on, but if he needs to do something to keep his sanity intact then I support him. I'm there to help him win, not the woman. If his idea of him winning is their both staying faithful, then that's what I want too. But the criteria is filtered through him just as the criteria is filtered through the interests of the men on this forum. I'm on this forum to help the guys here win. Its not that I don't see the other side (what, you don't think that I can see that the value models in my head work the other way? thats funny and naive) This a forum for men. In some very real ways, it's us versus them. Ommission of the alternate perspective isn't neglect, it's intentional.

[iknowexactly]

If you want a family, screen to the extent you can, then make the goal impregnating her. Pregnancy is what creates a family, not marriage. If she and your kid are around after that, great, you can stay as long as she behaves. But NEVER trust a woman-- Doesn't mean you can't be nice to them.

If she can't get pregnant you have to find another one anyway, unless the problem is yours.

[tiggaling]

>How can you expect any form of commitment(sexual or mental) from a woman?

I find it interesting on this forum, that the word "women" often means "American woman".

You're going to find women from other cultures to often be a lot more faithful and loyal.

[XXL]

expect the best be prepared for the worst. if my LTR woman slip i'll have to be ready to find another one relatively fast.