[Hencredible Casanova]

(12-15-2011 12:09 AM)azulsombra Wrote:  

While I can recommend Brazil to visitors of all colors, the average resident black brazilian faces a level of racism and discrimination that doesn't exist in the U.S. How else can you explain the fact that a post colonial country with a black/dark brown MAJORITY has so little representation in the higher classes of society,government, TV, etc... When you look at the favelas what color are over 80% of the residents? Brazil has a lot of potential but it also has a lot of work to do.

The part of your text that I highlighted is where I can agree with you without hesitation. As a gringo, of any color, you will have the gringo treatment in Brazil. Every Brazilian you meet will see you as a gringo no matter where you're from and no matter your race.

As for the comparison between opportunity in the US and Brazil, my earlier post thoroughly addresses that.

For one, it's misguided to compare a developing country like Brazil, which has only recently begun getting its shit together, with the longstanding economic powerhouse that the United States has been for a very long time. It's not a fair comparison to begin with. It's often been said that Brazil suffers from the worst economic inequality of any country in the world. Brazilians are vastly poorer than Americans and only recently has begun to see the ranks of its middle class rise exponentially.

If Brazil and the US only switched economies, with everything else remaining the same, then I have no doubt that blacks in Brazil would be far ahead and freer than their American counterparts are now. But Brazil has been, and in many ways still is, a poor and developing country. Even among the educated, earning power and quality of life is nothing of the sort that you see in the US.

Up until the presidency of Fernando Cardoso, inflation was a serious problem in Brazil, making long term investment and growth virtually untenable. Opportunity was scarce and corruption was rampant, and even today, there are still major corruption issues plaguing the country. These problems have affected MOST Brazilians, regardless of race.

As I said before, there was no social program specifically targeted towards blacks after the end of slavery; and this is in a country that was already poor and running on an economy that was primarily agrarian.

The fact that there was no legal segregation and the country has very liberal attitudes regarding racial mixing, political organization on the basis of race was never meant to happen as it did in the States.

Nonetheless, Brazilians of African descent have swelled the ranks of state and national politics. Even notable cities like Sao Paulo have had a black mayor, and Fernando Henrique Cardoso, a former President, had mulatto heritage, and he openly embraces it.

There's also famous writers, artists, actors, musicians, and athletes that are cherished and celebrated for their contributions as Brazilians, not as blacks.

It's very nuanced and subtle to apply American style analysis to Brazil's racial dynamics. It's incredibly complicated.

These allegations about Brazil being racist are not rooted in empirical evidence, but circumstantial observations using a generalized American perspective.

It's worth noting that Brazil has some of the most progressive anti-racism laws in the world. I even remember seeing the ads on public transportation vehicles in various large cities with a hotline number to call to report any racist hate speech that has been observed. If a white Brazilian were to walk up to a black Brazilian and utter something racially offensive, he would be taken straight to jail without bail and have to wait in a cell until his trial date. This is true.

I was in Rio de Janeiro right after the election of Barack Obama. It was almost like Obama won the Brazilian presidency. People were absolutely thrilled. There were all kinds of products bearing his image being sold all throughout. I firmly believe, and many Brazilians have told me this (most of them white), that if Obama were allowed to run for President in Brazil, he would easily win.

Nelson Mandela even visited Brazil to thank its government following the end of apartheid in South Africa. Brazil is one of the only countries in the world that stood against apartheid in South Africa from the very beginning. Not even the US can say that.

[azulsombra]

(12-15-2011 12:43 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(12-15-2011 12:09 AM)azulsombra Wrote:  

While I can recommend Brazil to visitors of all colors, the average resident black brazilian faces a level of racism and discrimination that doesn't exist in the U.S. How else can you explain the fact that a post colonial country with a black/dark brown MAJORITY has so little representation in the higher classes of society,government, TV, etc... When you look at the favelas what color are over 80% of the residents? Brazil has a lot of potential but it also has a lot of work to do.

The part of your text that I highlighted is where I can agree with you without hesitation. As a gringo, of any color, you will have the gringo treatment in Brazil. Every Brazilian you meet will see you as a gringo, no matter where you're from, and no matter your race.

[/b] You will have the gringo the majority of the time, but first they have to know your a gringo! Which isn't always obvious for those of us that look "brazilian".

As for the comparison between opportunity in the US and Brazil, my earlier post thoroughly addresses that.

For one, it's misguided to compare a developing country like Brazil, which has only recently begun getting its shit together, with the longstanding economic powerhouse that the United States has been for a very long time. It's not a fair comparison to begin with. It's often been said that Brazil suffers from the worst economic inequality of any country in the world. Brazilians are vastly poorer than Americans and only recently has begun to see the ranks of its middle class rise exponentially.

I agree, I wouldn't make this comparison myself. But it came up in early posts in the thread, u made some yourself.

If Brazil and the US switched economies, then I have no doubt that blacks in Brazil would be far ahead and freer than their American counterparts. But Brazil has been, and in many ways still is, a poor and developing country. Even among the educated, earning power and quality of life is nothing of the sort that you see in the US.

[b] I hope they would be would be further ahead, considering blacks are around 10% of U.S. and perhaps 40% of Brazil

Up until the presidency of Fernando Cardoso, inflation was a serious problem in Brazil, making long term investment and growth virtually untenable. Opportunity was scarce and corruption was rampant, and even today, there are still major corruption issues plaguing the country. These problems have affected MOST Brazilians, regardless of race.

Agreed, but they disproportionately affect darker brazilians, this cannot be denied.

As I said before, there was no social program specifically targeted towards blacks after the end of slavery; and this is in a country that was already poor and running on an economy that was primarily agrarian.

The fact that there was no legal segregation and the country has very liberal attitudes regarding racial mixing, political organization on the basis of race was never meant to happen as it did in the States.

[b] The latin slave caste system was far more stratified in comparison to the U.S. model. Divide and conquer at work.[b]

Nonetheless, Brazilians of African descent have swelled the ranks of state and national politics. Even notable cities like Sao Paulo has had a black mayor, and Fernando Henrique Cardoso, a former President, had mulatto heritage.

Also of note is the former black female governor of rio de janeiro.[/b]

There's also famous writers, artists, actors, musicians, and athletes that are cherished and celebrated for their contributions as Brazilians, not blacks.

Agreed. The same can be said about the U.S.

It's very nuanced and subtle to apply American style analysis to Brazil's racial dynamics. It's incredibly complicated.

[/b] Agreed, it is incredibly complicated.

These allegations about Brazil being racist are not rooted in empirical evidence, but circumstantial observations.

Do you subscribe to the theory that brazil is a "racial democracy" ?

Nelson Mandela even visited Brazil to thank its government following the end of apartheid in South Africa. Brazil is one of the only countries in the world that stood against apartheid in South Africa from the very beginning. Not even the US can say that.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(12-15-2011 12:09 AM)azulsombra Wrote:  

Do you subscribe to the theory that brazil is a "racial democracy" ?

I don't know. I mentioned the term earlier when I brought up how other governments, including the US, send observers to study race in Brazil as they see the country as a paragon of "racial democracy." Brazil has done an excellent job in absorbing people from all over the world and seeing them do well. It's got the largest Japanese population outside of Japan, one of the largest Italian population outside of Italy, and one to the largest Lebanese populations in the world.

For the many poor black folks, and poor people generally, it's going to be incredibly challenging for Brazil as a government to bring them up to speed. I think it's important to keep in mind that this is a developing country that has historically been governed by extremely corrupt and self-serving politicians who catered to a tiny elite at the expense of the majority of people. With that being the case, it's admirable, no less, that the government is introducing measures to consciously increase opportunities to a people who have long been marginalized as it's seeking to bring the country on the world stage. Think about how challenging it is for any country (just look at the US), let alone a poor one, to go from having brought millions of peoples as slaves, and then reintegrating them into a formal economy that calls for education and specialized training. Think about the impact that this history has had on the culture of poor communities. It's not going to be easy.

Yet, still, I think that it's worth commending that the country hasn't instituted legalized segregation and hasn't dehumanized black skin as US culture has, and has been able to, instead, introduce progressive anti-racism laws. I think that lends support to the idea of a racial democracy, though the verdict is still out. I'm confident Brazil will get better, though it will take time.

[pitt]

(12-15-2011 12:43 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(12-15-2011 12:09 AM)azulsombra Wrote:  

While I can recommend Brazil to visitors of all colors, the average resident black brazilian faces a level of racism and discrimination that doesn't exist in the U.S. How else can you explain the fact that a post colonial country with a black/dark brown MAJORITY has so little representation in the higher classes of society,government, TV, etc... When you look at the favelas what color are over 80% of the residents? Brazil has a lot of potential but it also has a lot of work to do.

The part of your text that I highlighted is where I can agree with you without hesitation. As a gringo, of any color, you will have the gringo treatment in Brazil. Every Brazilian you meet will see you as a gringo no matter where you're from and no matter your race.

As for the comparison between opportunity in the US and Brazil, my earlier post thoroughly addresses that.

For one, it's misguided to compare a developing country like Brazil, which has only recently begun getting its shit together, with the longstanding economic powerhouse that the United States has been for a very long time. It's not a fair comparison to begin with. It's often been said that Brazil suffers from the worst economic inequality of any country in the world. Brazilians are vastly poorer than Americans and only recently has begun to see the ranks of its middle class rise exponentially.

If Brazil and the US only switched economies, with everything else remaining the same, then I have no doubt that blacks in Brazil would be far ahead and freer than their American counterparts are now. But Brazil has been, and in many ways still is, a poor and developing country. Even among the educated, earning power and quality of life is nothing of the sort that you see in the US.

Up until the presidency of Fernando Cardoso, inflation was a serious problem in Brazil, making long term investment and growth virtually untenable. Opportunity was scarce and corruption was rampant, and even today, there are still major corruption issues plaguing the country. These problems have affected MOST Brazilians, regardless of race.

As I said before, there was no social program specifically targeted towards blacks after the end of slavery; and this is in a country that was already poor and running on an economy that was primarily agrarian.

The fact that there was no legal segregation and the country has very liberal attitudes regarding racial mixing, political organization on the basis of race was never meant to happen as it did in the States.

Nonetheless, Brazilians of African descent have swelled the ranks of state and national politics. Even notable cities like Sao Paulo have had a black mayor, and Fernando Henrique Cardoso, a former President, had mulatto heritage, and he openly embraces it.

There's also famous writers, artists, actors, musicians, and athletes that are cherished and celebrated for their contributions as Brazilians, not as blacks.

It's very nuanced and subtle to apply American style analysis to Brazil's racial dynamics. It's incredibly complicated.

These allegations about Brazil being racist are not rooted in empirical evidence, but circumstantial observations using a generalized American perspective.

It's worth noting that Brazil has some of the most progressive anti-racism laws in the world. I even remember seeing the ads on public transportation vehicles in various large cities with a hotline number to call to report any racist hate speech that has been observed. If a white Brazilian were to walk up to a black Brazilian and utter something racially offensive, he would be taken straight to jail without bail and have to wait in a cell until his trial date. This is true.

I was in Rio de Janeiro right after the election of Barack Obama. It was almost like Obama won the Brazilian presidency. People were absolutely thrilled. There were all kinds of products bearing his image being sold all throughout. I firmly believe, and many Brazilians have told me this (most of them white), that if Obama were allowed to run for President in Brazil, he would easily win. Nelson Mandela even visited Brazil to thank its government following the end of apartheid in South Africa. Brazil is one of the only countries in the world that stood against apartheid in South Africa from the very beginning. Not even the US can say that.

I lost all respect for you after this line. I strongly recommend you to go live in Brazil for 2 years at least, with all due respect but i dont think you know what you are talking about. And one last thing, when finding out about a country, you need to gather more information for the class who is being oppressed...its obvious that a white person in Brazil wouldnt tell you that white people there wouldnt vote for a black person, its part of our culture to make outsiders believe that the country is perfect.


You sound like a kid who went to disneyland and now believe that the world is a perfect place. I get really annnoyed when i see people talking about things they dont know so i am just going to exit this topic.

[RaulValdez739]

First off MV Bill is the truth..I got into his music recently.

Brazil has racism, but its obviously does not come in the form that America has.

If anyone comes on here and says "Racial Democracy" I'm going to crack up with laughter.

[RaulValdez739]

[Hencredible Casanova]

(12-15-2011 01:49 AM)pitt Wrote:  

(12-15-2011 12:43 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I was in Rio de Janeiro right after the election of Barack Obama. It was almost like Obama won the Brazilian presidency. People were absolutely thrilled. There were all kinds of products bearing his image being sold all throughout. I firmly believe, and many Brazilians have told me this (most of them white), that if Obama were allowed to run for President in Brazil, he would easily win. Nelson Mandela even visited Brazil to thank its government following the end of apartheid in South Africa. Brazil is one of the only countries in the world that stood against apartheid in South Africa from the very beginning. Not even the US can say that.

I lost all respect for you after this line. I strongly recommend you to go live in Brazil for 2 years at least, with all due respect but i dont think you know what you are talking about. And one last thing, when finding out about a country, you need to gather more information for the class who is being oppressed...its obvious that a white person in Brazil wouldnt tell you that white people there wouldnt vote for a black person, its part of our culture to make outsiders believe that the country is perfect.


You sound like a kid who went to disneyland and now believe that the world is a perfect place. I get really annnoyed when i see people talking about things they dont know so i am just going to exit this topic.

[/quote]

LOL. Is this your "A-game" at work? Geez. I must say, I'm truly disappointed that you have yet to formulate anything that remotely resembles a cogent thought when presenting your point of view. After systematically negating every one of your inconsequential posts, you have yet to understand the necessity of compiling a sensible set of facts to support your position.

How do I even debate with you? You're a myopic self-styled gadfly with zero credibility. You've made it impossible to have a legitimate discussion with your glaring absence of facts and absolutely zero evidence. You just talk out of your ass without any anecdotal or professional validity to show for what you speak. I now understand that's because there probably is none. You have no place participating in this discussion until you can prove you are actually capable of substantive analysis based on experience. Otherwise, what value are you offering to the forum members who are reading this? Make your own thread if you have to. Just don't post any garbage material here.

You haven't even offered a single anecdote about having ever been to Brazil, having lived there, or knowing actual Brazilians. Have you ever gotten with a Brasileira? A white one? Do you have white Brazilian friends? Have you spent time around Brazilian families? Photos? Stories?

You haven't offered anything of value. And you definitely haven't demonstrated any deep knowledge of the history of Brazil, so who are you to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about? Where were your comments when I was dropping authoritative breakdowns about the history of race in Brazil, as well as the underlying historical, cultural, and economic foundations? The same breakdown that earned me commendation from members, both privately and publicly. What has your "contribution" in this thread yielded for you? Nada.

And just so you know, though I left the detail out in my last message, several media publications in Brazil have conducted polls about whether Obama would win in a hypothetical presidential election contest in Brazil. He came out on top every time. There were even several newspapers when I was in Rio during the month of his inauguration that published cover stories labeling Obama as the President of Brazil. His election victory was seen as their victory. This was merely corroborated by actual Brazilians I interacted with on the ground.

Again, I just provided support for my argument that you had quarreled against without a shred of evidence.

What credibility do you even have at this point? You seem to be afflicted with some sort of deep complex about race, which I suspect stems from some kind of insecurity. I'm convinced you got issues brah. You've already made a fool out of yourself by not being able to articulate anything of value for this thread, so please keep your promise and stay out of the discussion until you are ready to hang with the big boys. Step your game up, son.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(12-15-2011 02:25 AM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  

First off MV Bill is the truth..I got into his music recently.

Brazil has racism, but its obviously does not come in the form that America has.

If anyone comes on here and says "Racial Democracy" I'm going to crack up with laughter.

Have you been to Brazil? If so, when and for how long? I think that's a required question for anyone who's going to opine on this issue. Anecdotal facts are invaluable.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(12-15-2011 02:27 AM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  

Honestly. I'm not going to watch this. For one, it's long and doesn't seem interesting. I've also already seen snippets of it when it premiered last year, or early this year. I really don't see how this dude has anything to add as he's also an American just visiting Brazil for the purpose of a Latin American documentary using an American fashioned pov.

I know many Brazilians, have spent time traveling across the country, and speak to Brazilians almost everyday. I have real friendships and have been in relationships with Brazilian chicks. I also have a Black American homeboy who's been living in Rio for years. I stayed at his spot when I was there in 2008. He speaks the language and only hangs out with Cariocas. He shares the same views I do.

I've also read many books and articles about this topic ad nauseum.

I don't see how this clip will add to the knowledge base I already have.

Anyway, the purpose of this thread was to highlight the website about the local communities of people of African descent in various Latin American countries. I didn't intend for it to turn into a discussion mainly about race in Brazil.

We've reached the apex of our fruitfulness on this issue. We should just take what we can from it and move on.

[rhodey]

(12-14-2011 10:11 AM)ea303 Wrote:  

.

Brazil is where the US is getting, at the end of the day you can buy acceptance with cloths, money, and dressing. Class trumps race in both places. Being poor and shabby is worse then the color of your hue.

Thing is I believe one's race automatically denotes class. The darker you are the worse off you are, that goes in both the US and Brazil I suspect and across the world.


But yeah race trumps class because you see the skin and the skin tells you the class...that why a billionaire like Oprah Winfrey can be barred from a boutique in France. I doubt she was dressed shabily but her skin....thats the marker.

Brazilians seem to mix more socially but really should a darkskinned person be more flattered that I white person "likes" them? More flattered than if a dark skinned person liked them? In my opinion that way of thinking supports notions of racial superiority.

[rhodey]

(12-15-2011 01:34 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Yet, still, I think that it's worth commending that the country hasn't instituted legalized segregation and hasn't dehumanized black skin as US culture has,

I'm not sure that not legalizing segregation is a marker for a more humane culture. Some theorize that Portuguese (and Spanish) encouraged race mixing
in one direction(white man to non white woman not the other way around) as a way of creating a "buffer" population between the white minority and nonwhite majority population. A united black identified population is way more threatening than a splinter mixed population. One can fathom that they were highly successful.

Add to that the whole "blanqueamiento" movement and one has to question the true motives behind all the mixing.

You also mention that black skin is not as dehumanized in Brazil as the US, why do you make that claim?

[Hencredible Casanova]

(12-15-2011 04:13 AM)rhodey Wrote:  

(12-14-2011 10:11 AM)ea303 Wrote:  

.

Brazil is where the US is getting, at the end of the day you can buy acceptance with cloths, money, and dressing. Class trumps race in both places. Being poor and shabby is worse then the color of your hue.

Thing is I believe one's race automatically denotes class. The darker you are the worse off you are, that goes in both the US and Brazil I suspect and across the world.


But yeah race trumps class because you see the skin and the skin tells you the class...that why a billionaire like Oprah Winfrey can be barred from a boutique in France. I doubt she was dressed shabily but her skin....thats the marker.

Brazilians seem to mix more socially but really should a darkskinned person be more flattered that I white person "likes" them? More flattered than if a dark skinned person liked them? In my opinion that way of thinking supports notions of racial superiority.

I don't think hyper-analyzing race is productive for someone who's really trying to get the most out of life, man. I think it's common for a lot of black males in the US to fall into that box where they interpret nearly everything in the world through a racial lens. That's just not cool. It's alright to go through a phase, especially when we're younger and just beginning to learn about the world around us, but getting out of that box is necessary to really get the most out of life. I think traveling and seeking new experiences that push you out of your comfort zone is the best way to do that. Gotta constantly evolve.

I've opened myself to an entire new world just from that subtle shift in consciousness. I'm not naive about the world's problems, but you really don't know what a person thinks until you actually talk to them. Forming sweeping generalizations about people, nations and cultures you don't even know simply because they fit into your neat little box is not a good look.

Anyway, that dude Pitt hit me up with a PM to explain his posts. It's all good in spite of the escalation in rhetoric during our last exchange. I really wasn't trying to erode the quality of this discussion or offend any members, but I think it's best to move on from the race topic. Just starting a new thread is probably the way to go for those who want to keep it going.

[rhodey]

(12-15-2011 04:35 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I don't think hyper-analyzing race is productive for someone who's really trying to get the most out of life, man. I think it's common for a lot of black males in the US to fall into that box where they interpret nearly everything in the world through a racial lens. That's just not cool. It's alright to go through a phase, especially when we're younger and just beginning to learn about the world around us, but getting out of that box is necessary to really get the most out of life. I think traveling and seeking new experiences that push you out of your comfort zone is the best way to do that. Gotta constantly evolve.

I've opened myself to an entire new world just from that subtle shift in consciousness. I'm not naive about the world's problems, but you really don't know what a person thinks until you actually talk to them. Forming sweeping generalizations about people, nations and cultures you don't even know simply because they fit into your neat little box is not a good look.

Anyway, that dude Pitt hit me up with a PM to explain his posts. It's all good in spite of the escalation in rhetoric during our last exchange. I really wasn't trying to erode the quality of this discussion or offend any members, but I think it's best to move on from the race topic. Just starting a new thread is probably the way to go for those who want to keep it going.

Point taken but you are the one who started this post. It's interesting that you mentioned "neat little box" I was thinking the same thing when I read your original post. And you don't have to respond to my previous post as I understand it is something you have "evolved" past.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(12-15-2011 02:07 PM)rhodey Wrote:  

(12-15-2011 04:35 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I don't think hyper-analyzing race is productive for someone who's really trying to get the most out of life, man. I think it's common for a lot of black males in the US to fall into that box where they interpret nearly everything in the world through a racial lens. That's just not cool. It's alright to go through a phase, especially when we're younger and just beginning to learn about the world around us, but getting out of that box is necessary to really get the most out of life. I think traveling and seeking new experiences that push you out of your comfort zone is the best way to do that. Gotta constantly evolve.

I've opened myself to an entire new world just from that subtle shift in consciousness. I'm not naive about the world's problems, but you really don't know what a person thinks until you actually talk to them. Forming sweeping generalizations about people, nations and cultures you don't even know simply because they fit into your neat little box is not a good look.

Anyway, that dude Pitt hit me up with a PM to explain his posts. It's all good in spite of the escalation in rhetoric during our last exchange. I really wasn't trying to erode the quality of this discussion or offend any members, but I think it's best to move on from the race topic. Just starting a new thread is probably the way to go for those who want to keep it going.

Point taken but you are the one who started this post. It's interesting that you mentioned "neat little box" I was thinking the same thing when I read your original post. And you don't have to respond to my previous post as I understand it is something you have "evolved" past.

I wasn't responding to you specifically. You haven't offended me at all. I was speaking generally. I have a lot of black male friends who suffer from that syndrome, and even my cousin. They just live in a box by conducting paralysis analysis about places and cultures they have never made an effort to genuinely understand. Years and years pass by without them having stepped on foreign soil or even dating girls outside of their race. I really don't see how that type of thinking lends itself to getting a diverse array of chicks. You've gotta be a confident alpha male to get the girls and hyper-analyzing race without actually traveling is definitely one way NOT to make it happen.

Meanwhile, dudes like me and my boy who's lived in Rio for years are actually living experiences and learning from them. Brazil is open fellas. My first trip to Rio is what spawned my decision to eventually travel across Latin America and return to Brazil again. I knew from that first trip, and the treatment I received from women of all shades, that I could no longer go back to dating American chicks with attitude and screwed up expectations. That trip really made me understand what being a man is all about. That's why I encourage brothas to go. I don't think any cat who hasn't been to Brazil has any business offering opinions about the place in a discussion like this. When I think about the country, I remember experiences with people there that I can corroborate with research, not something I read without confirming/denying through actual personal empirical evidence.

[PhilE]

I know this sounds weird Hencridible, but your last few post changed my life...... & possibly saved it. I've been depressed dealing with american women in general & then got really depressed when I started to research traveling out of the country to "look for love" and saw a lot of negative reviews on how black men are treated in latin america. And I actually started to think... Fuck it... I'm at the bottom of the totem pole, I can't have women i desire here, seems like it's no better anywhere else... I mind as well just end it.

I sat here looking at more reasons of doom & gloom, and why it will always be hard on me for being born a certain way, & I somehow end back up on this forum right to your post. It was EXACTLY what I needed to hear. Optimism. But not your sugar coated euphemisms like " your world is what you make it " but realistic hard hitting facts about why things outside of America ARE better for men. Including black men. Especially in a place like Brazil.

[playa_with_a_passport]

@Hencredible,

Do you speak Portuguese? Imho, this makes a huge difference in Brazil whether you going to be banging non pros ass or paying 50 Reals a nut at some Therma in the middle of nowhere. Also, I don't think Brazil is good spot to go for a brotha who has never been abroad.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(12-17-2011 04:29 PM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

@Hencredible,

Do you speak Portuguese? Imho, this makes a huge difference in Brazil whether you going to be banging non pros ass or paying 50 Reals a nut at some Therma in the middle of nowhere. Also, I don't think Brazil is good spot to go for a brotha who has never been abroad.

I'm not fluent in Port but I can speak it conversationally. It helps that I'm fluent in Spanish, though, and after a bit of time in Brazil, my ability in Port improves markedly. When I first got to Brazil, I didn't know any Port and had never studied it formally. But I had a homeboy from the States living well down there; he's actually half black French-Canadian/black Puerto Rican, but grew up in the States. He knew only Spanish and English when he moved down to Rio, but rapidly improved in Port by interacting strictly with locals. The girls in his building that we hooked up with only spoke Port and didn't mind that me and another homeboy weren't fluent. We both spoke Spanish to them and studied our translation books, trying our best to communicate with them. They appreciated it and even complimented me for how fast I was picking it up.

I think what you're saying can be true, depending on the type of brotha that goes down to Brazil. If your whole purpose is just to go down there and expect for sexy girls with phat asses to just swoon all over you for being an American, you will be very disappointed. It's nothing like that at all. But many of those type of guys who go to Brazil know the deal already. They are ready for p4p action and don't seem to mind paying out for a sexy Carioca. I guess they rationalize it by looking at cost v. value and come to the conclusion that what they get down there is better than home for less the price. Brazilian women are way more feminine, too, and seem to be just hardwired to understand the essential nature of a man.

If you want to get it in with locals, you should have a local friend there and/or make efforts to really get into the culture and learn the language. Language ability will increase your prospects tremendously, not just with women, but especially with a whole host of issues if you plan on staying for a while. There's a popular saying in Brazil, especially Rio, called Jeitinho--which refers to a unique way of getting around rules and bureaucracies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeitinho). If you want to understand Brazil, you have to understand Jeitinho. Knowing at least some Port will only enhance your experience.

I also agree that if you're a complete newbie to foreign travel, and latin culture specifically, Brazil may not be the best first choice. It depends on how comfortable you are with adventure (uncertainty, unfamiliarity) and possible adversity. English is not commonly spoken there at all. My first overseas experience as an adult was Western Europe. I ran through a whole bunch of countries there one summer. It was a good stepping stone: new cultures but enough people who spoke English to help me find my way.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(12-17-2011 06:17 AM)PhilE Wrote:  

I know this sounds weird Hencridible, but your last few post changed my life...... & possibly saved it. I've been depressed dealing with american women in general & then got really depressed when I started to research traveling out of the country to "look for love" and saw a lot of negative reviews on how black men are treated in latin america. And I actually started to think... Fuck it... I'm at the bottom of the totem pole, I can't have women i desire here, seems like it's no better anywhere else... I mind as well just end it.

I sat here looking at more reasons of doom & gloom, and why it will always be hard on me for being born a certain way, & I somehow end back up on this forum right to your post. It was EXACTLY what I needed to hear. Optimism. But not your sugar coated euphemisms like " your world is what you make it " but realistic hard hitting facts about why things outside of America ARE better for men. Including black men. Especially in a place like Brazil.

Glad to hear I was able to help in some measure. I hope you can pull yourself out of the rut and start realizing some of your dreams. There's a book that I bought after my first trip to Brazil that you may or may not want to read, "Don't Blame It On Rio." http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Blame-Rio-Beh...0446178063

It's full of anecdotes from Black men of all stripes who have gone to Brazil for many of the reasons you've mentioned.

Below are some passages from the book from actual people; makes for interesting discussion....
_____________________________________________________________

Here's why it has been such a secret. Most guys won't just pick up and go; they have to be mentored. Somebody that's already been there has to take them. They say, "Come go; come go with me to Rio," and kind of show them the ropes. That's what happened to me. My frat brother took me.

Jimmy, 28, semi-pro athlete, Pittsburgh

Since day one, being a man of means has meant having sexual conquests--not just with women who look like you but all women. (From Solomon to now.) It's not enough to have sex with beautiful women in Miami; you have to have sex with beautiful women in Thailand. And if they have beautiful women in Iceland, you will go there, too. In general, men of means have been doing this for two thousand years. And today, African-American men do it because they can. For a little bit of extra money you can get on a plane and do that. For a week, ten days, or two weeks, you can experience the power that men of means experience every day. For some people, that week is a lifetime.

Jordan, 40, public relations, New York

We all go out and sit in this restaurant and then suddenly there are all these women. We hadn't been there three hours and there's a restaurant called Mia Pataca where everybody gathered. We're sitting there and it's almost like being in a VIP area. It's closed off. The only women they let come in are women that they think you might want to talk to. And all of a sudden, you're the object of what you think is a lot of people's desire, because everywhere you look, there's a woman trying to make eye contact with you.
Imagine that you and I are sitting outside a cafe and just across from you are thirty to forty women standing, waiting to be chosen. And these women are all tens and twelves, gorgeous. Perfect. Eventually, my boy and me grab this mulatto and this jet-black African.
We took them to what they called the "freak rooms." When we were done, I asked my boy if he wanted to switch. So I hit the mulatto and my boy hit the other chick. After that, we went back to Mia Pataca, and the plan was to go back to the hotel to rest, but some of the other guys wanted to go to this place called Quatro y Quatro.
The one guy that had been before kept talking about it. He said we should go at night because the best girls worked at night. Although we knew it was going to be a while before the club opened, we were so geeked we decided to go then.
Man, nothing he told us prepared me for what that place was like. You walk in and shit! They hand you a towel, a bar of soap, some flip-flops, and a robe. Man, I'm wearing a robe! Oh, and they give you a band and a locker to keep your shit in.
So we do all that and we go to the floor where the girls are. Oh, my God! Man, this dude said that the fine women worked at night, but he had to be lying, because I swear the finest women I had ever seen were there. I felt like I was in an Usher video: They were playing hip-hop, my boys and me were drinking, fine women everywhere. I was in heaven! So while my boys were drinking and looking, I went and got a girl right away and took her up to the room. Man, I fucked the shit out of that girl. After that, I went back to the floor and they told me that my boy was already in the room, but with two women. I'm thinking, "Hell, no!" After I get a couple of drinks, I grabbed two women and took them back to the room. How many is that? Four or five by now, right? And we haven't been there a full night yet.
We get back to the hotel to rest, get some food, and whatnot. By the time we get there I was like, "Help!" I thought I was done...

I first went to Brazil as a graduation gift for myself....As business majors, we always find ways to pay for things...I never bought pussy before so my thought at the time was why go overseas and buy pussy?...I never had a problem with the sisters....My frat brothers kept talking about how of the hook it was. They just couldn't stop talking about it...

I didn't feel any problems from the guys who were down there, either. I didn't see any confrontations. You're talking about clubs full of black people and there were no confrontations. It was just good. I wasn't constantly watching my back. I wasn't on guard the whole time. There weren't brothers stepping on each other's feet. If they did, there wasn't a problem. In fact, you might hear someone say, "Brother, let me get you another drink." I heard that so much down there. And I think it was kind of like what Richard Pryor said when he went to Africa and said he didn't see any niggers. That's what it felt like.

Was it a good time or what? It was a dream.

And the night wasn't over. When we went back to the hotel, I picked out the one I wanted and we went back to the room. I must have been tired and drunk because I couldn't handle my business, so I took a Viagra. After that, I passed out. I woke up later to a knock at the door. When I opened it, there was this chick standing there naked saying some shit, waving, and telling me to come on. I followed her down the hall to my boy's room. He was in there with another girl, so I was like, "Fuck it!" I took another Viagra.

At this point, I'm doing everything but I can't bust a nut. I'm fucking in the ass, in the pussy. We're doing all types of shit, like double penetration, and I still can't cum. It was the weirdest thing. Before we started fucking, we're sitting there and one girl was looking at us and the other girl was comparing whose dick was bigger. We were actually sitting around talking. I was very vulnerable, and I was thinking how I would never expose myself like that back at home.

It was almost like the locker room. You're walking around naked and there is that bonding and that vulnerability, but it is not sexual. It's not like you're looking at your boy. You're not looking at them like, "Oh, yeah, my boy's got his clothes off." It's almost like "Here, the mask's off. This is me."

Marcus, 28, marketing executive, Chicago

(1)I have been with hookers all over the world. The girls who work in Rio and in Europe, I have met hookers who are smarter than an MBA. They speak three and four languages and they know what's going on in Darfur and Chechnya. They can talk about international politics. When your with them, you aren't just buying a hooker, you're buying an experience.

(2) Black men have been traveling the world since the twenties. There were big exoduses of black men during the twenties and thirties to Paris because they were treated better. Black were traveling when they were broke jazzmen and they didn't have any money.

Question about the difference in the black men who traveled to foreign places in the past vs. black men who travel to Brazil today

(3) I really hate to use the word "elite." They probably weren't broke; they seemed to be a little more knowledgeable class off people, interested in seeing the world, people interested in world travel. As you know for yourself , the majority of people are born on their dot on this planet and don't leave it. Look at our president, George Bush. He never left the country until he became president, and he certainly had the means, but he wasn't interested in seeing the rest of the world. Here he was, a multimillionaire, and had never left the United states. So it isn't a issue of money; it's an issue of interest. Today you have a bunch of brothers dressed like thugs running around Brazil. I can't tell if they are professional or not.

David, age and job withheld, has traveled to Brazil for more than two decades

Brazilian women make much better wives than American women. An American woman has several fundamental problems that will never go away and that will get much worse a few years after she is married:

Her inherent anti-male bias and pre-occupation with fairness that was drilled into her in high school, college, and through the media. Her constant confrontations and trying to prove herself and to make a point. Her self-centeredness, her ridiculously high expectations, her sense of entitlement, her high-maintenance, superficial, and stuck up attitude, her snootiness and her sense of superiority. This "princess" syndrome means that she will always think that she is better than you, and that she deserves and she is entitled to whatever she wants from you. Her using sex as a weapon and reward for these problems. Marrying an American woman simply does not make sense.

The ONLY reason men stay with American women is because they did not have enough exposure to Brazilian women. Any man who spent a few months in Brazil will not even look at American women again.

[Mr.GM]

Hencredible Casanova,as a Brazilian I feel really happy to see a guy who has a deep knowledge about my country,a place with many,many problems(including racism) but at the same time we are proud to be open and multicultural.Unfortunately there are neo nazi groups and white supremacists here, I won't lie, but the good examples of tolerance and inter-racial couples or friends are far more abundant.If u come to São Paulo let me know, It would be great to meet for a drink or to go out to pick up some chicks man. +1

[Hencredible Casanova]

(12-17-2011 06:05 PM)Mr.GM Wrote:  

Hencredible Casanova,as a Brazilian I feel really happy to see a guy who has a deep knowledge about my country,a place with many,many problems(including racism) but at the same time we are proud to be open and multicultural.Unfortunately there are neo nazi groups and white supremacists here, I won't lie, but the good examples of tolerance and inter-racial couples or friends are far more abundant.If u come to São Paulo let me know, It would be great to meet for a drink or to go out to pick up some chicks man. +1

Sounds good, man. I love Brazil so I know I'll be back sooner than later. It definitely has its problems, as does every country, but I think that things are beginning to get better.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(12-17-2011 06:17 AM)PhilE Wrote:  

I know this sounds weird Hencridible, but your last few post changed my life...... & possibly saved it. I've been depressed dealing with american women in general & then got really depressed when I started to research traveling out of the country to "look for love" and saw a lot of negative reviews on how black men are treated in latin america. And I actually started to think... Fuck it... I'm at the bottom of the totem pole, I can't have women i desire here, seems like it's no better anywhere else... I mind as well just end it.

I sat here looking at more reasons of doom & gloom, and why it will always be hard on me for being born a certain way, & I somehow end back up on this forum right to your post. It was EXACTLY what I needed to hear. Optimism. But not your sugar coated euphemisms like " your world is what you make it " but realistic hard hitting facts about why things outside of America ARE better for men. Including black men. Especially in a place like Brazil.

Here's another book that I recommend called, "Brainwashed."

http://www.amazon.com/Brainwashed-Challe...pd_sim_b_3

The book challenges what the author sees as "the myth of black inferiority." He makes some very convincing points and you can see that the book has good reviews. It really addresses that syndrome I mentioned earlier. It's one thing for brothers to choose not to travel and not care about other places, but I don't accept adopting a passive existence in which one interprets other cultures through a narrow American-style "racial prism" when you haven't even left the country or gone to the country you have strong opinions about. That's ridiculous and unforgivably ignorant.

[choichoi]

I lived/studied in Fortaleza, Brazil for about 6 mos. My host family was mixed-race. Two of their 3 daughters were light-skinned mulatas and the other a dark skinned one mulata (all very pretty). The family was mid-class owning their own successful photography and videography business.

I'd say, the lines between the races very blurred in the northeast -I saw two old men who appeared to be twin-brothers (exact same facial structure with one being as black as night and the other being blonde with blue eyes!)

Most people there assumed I was from Bahia or Rio because I did not have the same features, even though I spoke with a heavy foreign accent, as the general populace who tends to be mostly mestico (indigenous and euro), with the trademark "flat head" that is typical of the Northeast. You see some people in Ceara who exhibit some African features, but not to the degree that you see in people from, say, Recife or Sao Luis.

[BoiBoi]

If you guys are interested in this kinda stuff, maybe youll like this documentary One Dollar - El precio de la vida. Its mainly the Afropanamenos, their community, music, etc. Check it out, its good!

[crazyskaterkid]

(12-13-2011 04:52 PM)kdolo Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 03:11 PM)nomadicdude Wrote:  

Ive spent a few months in Brazil and I also came away with the idea that whites and non-whites get along much better than in America or elsewhere in Latin America. I am not saying it is perfect, but I see so many mixed couples or groups of friends and I generally find that white Brazilians don't have this anger towards other groups that you sometimes see with US whites.

You don't see the anger because in Brazil, the blacks (and the browns) accept white supremacy and have never made any attempt to challenge it (in the modern era - no civili rights movement). Hence the whites live a relatively tranquil existence - enjoying their privilege unmolested by challenges.

In the US, blacks have always challenged white supremacy - and continue to do so. So, whites, since 1865 have never been able to enjoy their supremacy unmolested. Hence the anger at "those blacks (et al. ) who are always complaining" (i.e. challenging white supremacy).

you hit it dead on with this post two thumbs up.i'm am tired of people saying there is no race issue in brasil.i can even see how white supremacy has affected my girl friend who is afro brasilian.every time i make her a complement she says something negative about her features like she dosn't like her nose that looks very much african. but it makes me mad because she is pretty.and there is a unspoken rule that afro-brasileiras are at the bottom of the sexual totem pole through the media but they just are not as vocal about it like black american women are.

[crazyskaterkid]

(12-13-2011 07:13 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 06:42 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

I read that in Brazil people who are not 100% black are not really considered black as they would be here in the states. Would you say this is true?

My earlier post addresses that. There is no real sense of racial distinction by blood in Brazil.

not really true rapaz.my girlfriend does see herself as negra.tá ligado mermão