[Tuthmosis]

Thanks for the love on the post, gentlemen. Excellent input too.

Just to address the various requests for my playlist:

This is a multi-hour long playlist that I deliberately made long enough to extend through a whole visit, bang, and short nap--if necessary. Needless to say, I can't itemize that whole thing.

But, generally speaking, I go for ambient sounding tunes--without too many jarring, danceable beats that will excite the girl in the wrong direction--that fit within my preferred genres. I like 1970s folk, latin music, old-school hip-hop, and alternative (read: hipster) shit. Semi-psychedelic sounds work well too. That said, there are some random inclusions. It's a pretty mixed bag.

It's really about manufacturing a mood and "color." One way to think about it is that it has to be something that pairs well with the iTunes visualizer and a dimly lighted room. I'm trying to replicate the feel of a cool, comfortable lounge; the difference being, of course, that we're now totally alone.

Here are some examples to illustrate what I mean:

[Jackhammer]

Love it. Great analysis/technique!

Having a set plan is a great way to maximize success, since you are eventually able to expertly work around any roadblocks that may arise simply out of sheer repetition of the plan. If you do too many different types of first dates, there's too many variables that could throw you off and destroy the bang. I've done a variant of this method, but since I still live at home I have to get the bang in my car or a motel (or her apartment).

To think that there are still dudes out there who buy chicks dinner, drinks, movie tickets, etc. and still don't bang her is insane.

[wolf]

(12-23-2011 12:29 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Good stuff, but I'm surprised that most of this isn't common knowledge! What I found interesting is the not-kiss part. I've done this on a few dates and I must say it's easier to get them to your place if you haven't kissed them yet. Especially on girls under 21, but I've kissed a girl who was 25 and she wouldn't let me back inside of her place. I wonder if this is culture-specific.

Logistics wise; I use my car to get girls back home. I've got the best parking spots around town figured out, and I get them back here without much issue. I usually just drive them back here without saying anything. You don't need to be walking distance from bars but it helps.

I say less than 1/3 of my dates involve alcohol and I still close. Alcohol is overrated if you can think of a good activity to do otherwise. Rock climbing is still the #1 non-alcoholic way to get girls comfortable with me. A lot more fun than sitting at a bar as well.

Quote:

We come in; I tell them it's a "shoeless house"; I wait for them to take off their boots

This is really good advice, as girls feel much more intimate once their shoes are off. True story. I wish I thought of this sooner. Classic line.

So you go do some activity like rock climbing and then you just drive straight home saying nothing about you driving back to your place?

What do they say or what is their reaction when they get to your place?

What kind of resistance do they put up if they don't want to go in, and how do you overcome it?

[Samseau]

(12-23-2011 06:01 PM)wolf Wrote:  

(12-23-2011 12:29 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Good stuff, but I'm surprised that most of this isn't common knowledge! What I found interesting is the not-kiss part. I've done this on a few dates and I must say it's easier to get them to your place if you haven't kissed them yet. Especially on girls under 21, but I've kissed a girl who was 25 and she wouldn't let me back inside of her place. I wonder if this is culture-specific.

Logistics wise; I use my car to get girls back home. I've got the best parking spots around town figured out, and I get them back here without much issue. I usually just drive them back here without saying anything. You don't need to be walking distance from bars but it helps.

I say less than 1/3 of my dates involve alcohol and I still close. Alcohol is overrated if you can think of a good activity to do otherwise. Rock climbing is still the #1 non-alcoholic way to get girls comfortable with me. A lot more fun than sitting at a bar as well.

Quote:

We come in; I tell them it's a "shoeless house"; I wait for them to take off their boots

This is really good advice, as girls feel much more intimate once their shoes are off. True story. I wish I thought of this sooner. Classic line.

So you go do some activity like rock climbing and then you just drive straight home saying nothing about you driving back to your place?

What do they say or what is their reaction when they get to your place?

What kind of resistance do they put up if they don't want to go in, and how do you overcome it?

Start driving, she asks "Where are we going?"

"Oh, I wanna show you something cool" and drive back to your place. If she persists say "It's a surprise." and hold that frame. "No really, tell me." Smile at her, say "You'll see."

When she's at your driveway/street, start walking and expect her to follow. If she asks where you're going and where you are, say "We're at (say your address). Come'on I'll show you something cool."

Walk into your place show her around and say "Hey let's watch some Seinfeld/Curb your Enthusiasm/Office/(insert funny TV show)" or suggest a movie. If she asks what was so cool, say "Very funny."

She's now in your place, game accordingly.

If at any point the girl makes a stink about things, just get rid of the bitch.

Always, with women and children, the rule is to act first, and deal with objections after.

[Basil Ransom]

5 star writeup.

Couple things:

Step 1, The Meet: I tell girls to park at a lot near my house. Including girls I've met online. That way, the date starts and ends at my house, every single time. She has no choice but to go home with you. Of course, she doesn't have to come inside, but if she has time and you've macked her well, and given her a reason to come in, you shouldn't have trouble.

I also never go to her on the first date. I always make her drive to me. Girls who insist otherwise are always bitches not worth your time. Plus, girls flake so much that I don't want to plan to drive somewhere if she's just going to flake at the last minute. And sleazing your way into a girl's place is much much harder than getting her into your own. If she gives me shit about not meeting in public, I tell her it's the easiest place to find parking, it's a nice walk, etc. Just hold your frame, build some more comfort (easier on the phone than over text) and she'll concede.

It's especially hilarious when the date goes bad, and I choose to stay at the bars. So she's forced to walk back alone to *my* house, in a neighborhood she hardly knows... "Oh you want to go? Ok peace, I'm gonna stay out here for a bit." Happened once with a DC chick of course.

Quote:

Step 4. Absolutely do not kiss her. Do not, I repeat, go for the make-out at the venue.

I never make out at the venue either, but I do leave the venue with her to an outdoor spot with some privacy, with some frozen yogurt perhaps, where we can chat and kiss in peace. *Then* I take it back to my house. I've never tried Tuth's method, with its opposite order, of going home first, if only because I've always seen the makeout as a way to solidify interest and ensure that she'll come inside my house. I think every time I've made out with a girl, she has come home with me (although not necessarily banged).

The advantage of Tuth's method is that it lets you go from kissing to banging without any stops, and doesn't give antislut defense time to form. The bars I go to are right next to some great make-out spots, it's a core part of my date, so I've never considered not kissing there. Definitely something I'm going to try.

Tuth, what's your take on taking a girl to your patio/living room vs your bedroom directly? My patio is a nice place to chill, and girls like it, but it doesn't really lend itself to banging - no futons or anything. But taking them directly to the bedroom, especially if we've only had a couple drinks, might meet with some resistance. The long-term solution is probably an outdoor couch or futon of some sort. Only have a bench currently.

My date sequence is:

1. Meet at lot near my house.
2. Walk to venue.
3. Leave venue for make out spot (sometimes get fro-yo in between).
4. Kiss, grope, finger.
5. Walk home.
6. Take her to the patio, kiss, grope, finger, strip.
7. Take her to the bedroom.

Quote:

Even better, you should know the optimal nights at each place, so that can pick your spot according to the day of the week.

What do you mean by optimal night? I find empty venues to work best, especially because the noise level is low and my voice isn't loud. Pauses in conversation will be less awkward, and there'll be more sexual tension. Solitude and tranquility are your friends.

As for music, I have the cheesiest line for getting them into my bedroom after hanging in my patio. "I just downloaded a Jack Johnson album, let's go listen." JJ suits my location culturally very well...

[CupCake]

Thanks for writing this. I didn't realize how easy things can be if you have things planned out from the beginning. I was never much of a planner so I was always winging it. I'll try to pick out some key places around me to work with. Thanks for the motivation.

Question though: What do you do with girls who are not yet 21? I live near a university and this has happened a couple times. I'm never sure where to start things.

[BortimusPrime]

Hmm, so speaking of logistics which would be preferable? I have the misfortune of being confined to a suburb for the time being.

1. Meet at downtown bar 20 min from pad.
1. Meet at crappier suburban bar close to pad.

My main thought is that the girl isn't going to want to drive to a suburb with which she may not be familiar for the meetup, but meeting downtown does increase the time to move back to my place, which presents increased risk of losing momentum along the way.

[Basil Ransom]

(12-23-2011 10:10 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

Hmm, so speaking of logistics which would be preferable? I have the misfortune of being confined to a suburb for the time being.

1. Meet at downtown bar 20 min from pad.
1. Meet at crappier suburban bar close to pad.

My main thought is that the girl isn't going to want to drive to a suburb with which she may not be familiar for the meetup, but meeting downtown does increase the time to move back to my place, which presents increased risk of losing momentum along the way.

Can you walk to the suburban bar? If so, I'd make her drive to within a block of your place, and walk together. She's coming to meet up with you, not to enjoy the scene.

In other words, stop caring about what she wants, and do what helps you bang. Girls respect this, on a very subconscious, animalistic level.

[Samseau]

(12-23-2011 08:34 PM)CupCake Wrote:  

Thanks for writing this. I didn't realize how easy things can be if you have things planned out from the beginning. I was never much of a planner so I was always winging it. I'll try to pick out some key places around me to work with. Thanks for the motivation.

Question though: What do you do with girls who are not yet 21? I live near a university and this has happened a couple times. I'm never sure where to start things.

Girls under 21 can just be invited back to your place for drinks/movie. Also a fun activity you can do with her works wonders (hint: rock climbing)

[CupCake]

(12-23-2011 10:10 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

My main thought is that the girl isn't going to want to drive to a suburb with which she may not be familiar for the meetup, but meeting downtown does increase the time to move back to my place, which presents increased risk of losing momentum along the way.

If she's not willing to take a short trip to meet you, I doubt she's willing to fuck you. It might be a good idea to move, good sir. Having local bars and shops within walking distance is a real blessing.

[soup]

Awesome post.

So, instead of just bouncing to another bar for a second round without having previously dropped that intention in the conversation, you alert them that there is going to be a next round bounce? I usually don't tell them that we are going to go to another place because I want them to qualify for it; they have to "make me" want to hang with them more, and then I'm like, "let's go to this place across the street, they have xXxxblah blah beer that I like (or something like that)." In fact, I don't even mention the second round, because I want them to qualify for more of my time.

I've also gotten bad feedback about functional texts. Maybe mine are too mechanical, but I've had girls actually shit test me about my "commanding" texts: "Hey, can you meet me at XXXX at XXXX time?" That said, those were girls that I ended up banging, but I'd rather not have them bring that shit up.

Also, meeting too close to my house has gotten some complaints. Last week, I had a girl actually say, after the first round, "So, is it ok if we go back to my neighborhood to get a drink now?" I just looked at her and said "No." Then we got into a little meta-talk about the date, but I eventually moved her to another bar and then to my house. No bang though.

In general, I think it's better to steer all conversation away from any meta-talk. I want her to be so enthralled in the experience that she isn't in her head about hanging with me.

Here's a brakedown of kino escalation that has worked for me:

1 Social Touch (handshakes etc.)
2 Friendly Touch (hugs, playfighting, touch on the back)
3 Romantic Touch (holding hands, having her sit in your lap)
4 Sexual Touch (whatever happens after kissing)

I make sure to hit all those bases in that order to avoid creeping her out.

I've had trouble finding bait(s) to drop that justify her going back to my house on a first date. Offering one thing like a drink isn't enough in my experience. I actually try to build and direct the conversations towards things that I can show her (like some kind of music, a video thing, a book that we've talked about, some creative thing that I've made), or some other activity that that we can do at my house. I try to get a few things in there.

It's assumed that there is attraction already, otherwise she wouldn't be on a date with you. So, I see the whole date as a process of cleaving off successive levels of resistance via comfort building and kino escalation.


I'm going to try the not making-out until reaching my pad thing. I think that giving them a PDA kiss has worked against me by diffusing the sexual tension and giving them just enough ego boost to end the date before coming home with you. So, you keep the kino at friendly level until you bring them back?

Shoeless house is great.

For framing control on the make-out, I try to push them away before they push me away. You can sense it coming if they pause or if you feel her hand moving into position to block your tit move. It shows social intelligence, and builds comfort while also depriving them of your attention. Crucial.

[speakeasy]

(12-24-2011 02:54 PM)soup Wrote:  

I've had trouble finding bait(s) to drop that justify her going back to my house on a first date. Offering one thing like a drink isn't enough in my experience. I actually try to build and direct the conversations towards things that I can show her (like some kind of music, a video thing, a book that we've talked about, some creative thing that I've made), or some other activity that that we can do at my house. I try to get a few things in there.

I knew a guy that had a huge aquarium full of rare tropical fish. That worked well for him as bait. Having some other kinds of rare or interesting animals should be good. Like if you have tortoises or an iguana or something(not that I'm about to buy one). I've also known some guys who are artists(painters, photographers) who used that angle. In fact if you are an artist that's a goldmine. Let her know you paint or shoot photography, she'll naturally be interested in your work then you offer to take her back and show her. If you play guitar or keyboard, you can offer to show her how to play a few simple tunes. I don't own any video game consoles, but maybe some girls would have fun goofing around with one of those games like Super Mario Cart or something, or those Rock Band games, I imagine that'd be fun if you guys are both buzzing or smoked some weed. Oh and speaking of, if the girl is 420 friendly, having a stash at home on offer should be great bait.

[Tuthmosis]

(12-23-2011 08:25 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Tuth, what's your take on taking a girl to your patio/living room vs your bedroom directly? My patio is a nice place to chill, and girls like it, but it doesn't really lend itself to banging - no futons or anything. But taking them directly to the bedroom, especially if we've only had a couple drinks, might meet with some resistance. The long-term solution is probably an outdoor couch or futon of some sort. Only have a bench currently.

My take is that you need to have a loungey area, suitable for chilling and banging, that isn't your bedroom. The advantage of my setup is that my living room is my bedroom--so there's never even an issue. I think a nice futon or wider, plusher couch with other accountrements would do the trick.

A patio, with some sort of entertainment or distraction (music, TV, or a nice view), would seem to me to have great potential for this sort of approach.

(12-23-2011 08:34 PM)CupCake Wrote:  

Question though: What do you do with girls who are not yet 21? I live near a university and this has happened a couple times. I'm never sure where to start things.

This is complex issue that probably merits its own post. I've actually been dealing with this quite a bit lately myself. Most (if not all) girls are down to drink, they just "can't get into bars yet." I find that it helps to know at least a couple of cool, non-alcoholic places too. If you're in a (cool) city, a Moroccan-style cafe or dimly lit cafe of any sort can do the trick. You can "start" there, feel her out for deviance, and move things to your place much the same way.

It took me a while to get used to the enthusiasm and willingness at that age. It is one the most life-affirming things I've experienced. It's beautiful.

(12-24-2011 02:54 PM)soup Wrote:  

I'm going to try the not making-out until reaching my pad thing. I think that giving them a PDA kiss has worked against me by diffusing the sexual tension and giving them just enough ego boost to end the date before coming home with you. So, you keep the kino at friendly level until you bring them back?

I wouldn't call it the "friendly" level. It's definitely a notch or two above that. I'd describe it more as the "ambiguous" or "on-the-brink" level. This is an important psychological distinction.

(12-24-2011 04:02 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I knew a guy that had a huge aquarium full of rare tropical fish. That worked well for him as bait. Having some other kinds of rare or interesting animals should be good. Like if you have tortoises or an iguana or something(not that I'm about to buy one). I've also known some guys who are artists(painters, photographers) who used that angle. In fact if you are an artist that's a goldmine. Let her know you paint or shoot photography, she'll naturally be interested in your work then you offer to take her back and show her. If you play guitar or keyboard, you can offer to show her how to play a few simple tunes. I don't own any video game consoles, but maybe some girls would have fun goofing around with one of those games like Super Mario Cart or something, or those Rock Band games, I imagine that'd be fun if you guys are both buzzing or smoked some weed. Oh and speaking of, if the girl is 420 friendly, having a stash at home on offer should be great bait.

Absolutely. Anything that makes you into the "candyman" with an interesting "playground" is going to work to your advantage. Half of the things in my place have a story or visual interest behind them. There's a lot to see and do and talk about there. That's vital.

[Iceinthewater]

Solid basics in this post - esp. about not jumping the gun with escalation. Escalation has to be smooth - gradual and constant.

Money line I've used to get girls back to my place:

"I'm ready to call it a night. You can come in for a sec but you have to promise not to laugh."

1. Total frame reversal (ALLOWING her to come in),
2. making her feel safe about not getting raped/killed (come in for a SEC) - yes this is a real fear women have and a lot of times its the real reason why they won't come to your place,
3. plus massive intrigue - we know what curiosity does to women's brains lol
=she can't say no.

As far as what she would laugh at - doesn't matter. Could be anything - dishes in the sink or a lack of furniture, or whatever.

I started using this line in Orlando when I had no pictures or extras to furnish my place. A bed, a desk, a couch, a tv. So when girls came over, that's what they were supposed to "not laugh" at lol.

[Get D]

Very informative post. Thank you. I will try not kissing at venue.

The only thing I don't get is that women would only think you want to makeout at your place. Surely they must be aware that the guy is probably going to try for more. Most likely they think that though the guy will try for more, they don't plan on going beyond making out. Still, if you haven't already made out at the venue, and she is down for making out, getting her to your place probably does improve your chances for a first-date bang over a make-out session at the venue when she is not yet ready for sex.

[soup]

Tuth, thank you.

Did your exact blueprint. Got bang. 20, my goal of 2011 bangs, accomplished tonight.

Yes, she was a vigorous Jewish dentist, but we fucked and then I went out, because it was early when we hit it.

Made out with two different chicks in the aftermath at the bar.

Mad inner game-booster.

You da man.

P.S. people in America tend to knock Jewish girls (and Jews in general), but a lot of them are not only DTF, they love fucking and don't have the hang-ups that a lot Christian girls have. I've noticed this with Persian girls as well.

Merry XXXmas

[TheAntiWhiteKnight138]

(12-25-2011 03:14 AM)Get D Wrote:  

Very informative post. Thank you. I will try not kissing at venue.

The only thing I don't get is that women would only think you want to makeout at your place. Surely they must be aware that the guy is probably going to try for more. Most likely they think that though the guy will try for more, they don't plan on going beyond making out. Still, if you haven't already made out at the venue, and she is down for making out, getting her to your place probably does improve your chances for a first-date bang over a make-out session at the venue when she is not yet ready for sex.

See, your problem is you're thinking much too logically

Women will rationalize EVERYTHING they can get away with legally. Even though they know you may try for the bang, they'll convince themselves that you're only going in for the kiss. This is how their minds work.

Ever wonder how military wives fuck around behind soldiers backs and still look themselves in the mirror????.....same principles. As long as they don't "believe" it's cheating.........it's not

[MikeCF]

Epic.

[Lothario]

Like always awsome post Tuth, I like you style a lot , 1 + from me as well.......

[La Familia]

Great write up Tuth, +1. My style is similar to this and is congruent with the life I live. To add on to your suggestion of other non-alcoholic locations, hookah bars work well. All of the ones I've been to are dimly lit lounges with an outside section. While I usually go to these venues with Persian women, you'll find many chicks who are down too because of its "ethnic & cool" factor.

[YoungGunner]

(12-24-2011 01:17 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(12-23-2011 08:34 PM)CupCake Wrote:  

Thanks for writing this. I didn't realize how easy things can be if you have things planned out from the beginning. I was never much of a planner so I was always winging it. I'll try to pick out some key places around me to work with. Thanks for the motivation.

Question though: What do you do with girls who are not yet 21? I live near a university and this has happened a couple times. I'm never sure where to start things.

Girls under 21 can just be invited back to your place for drinks/movie. Also a fun activity you can do with her works wonders (hint: rock climbing)

Two other threads about under 21 dates/girls:
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-5160.html
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-4369.html

I posted previously in the first link; here's the jist of it:

Daygame girls at the beach, on the street, at house parties, street fairs, and then schedule a date if you can't get an instate or agree to meet up later that night.

Note: Doesn't seem like people under 21 like calling these meet ups "dates" so don't use the word. It sounds kind of formal and grown up to under-21 girls; I just call it "heading out" or "meeting up," but for this post I'll call it going on a date.

Depending on where you're living now, house parties are probably the best places to meet girls that you can later meet up with.

When you do set up dates, take them back to your place to pregame before if you can, and then go out for the activity (date) and come back. If you're going to go to any venue look for bars/restaurants in college areas (NYU Area in NY for example) and things of that nature. You don't wanna be the only two young people at that venue. Anyway, pregaming at your house does 3 things:

First, it breaks down a psychological barrier she has of going to your crib so she won't be as hesitant back to your place after the date since she's "been there before" and feels somewhat comfortable and familiar with it.

This would probably come in handy if you combine it with Tuth's strategy, where the girl wants to come back to your crib because she thinks she's only gonna make out but has a fear of going home with a stranger. So, that little "stranger danger" fear, one of the only reasons she would have not to go home with you if you've gamed her properly, is out. Thus the % of girls you take home would increase a bit.

Second, if things are going well and your game is tight you get to try to close before the date at your place, or at least get physical. But, if you make out with her before you leave your crib to go out you should escalate or else you'll face the problem Tuth mentioned where when you return from the date, she knows your gonna push for sex. So, either try to get it in before the date (if you think she's dtf) or get her really horny with lots of pu$$y rubbing and neck kissing, escalation and stuff so that she's fantasizing about going home with you all during the date and wants and expects sex when she returns to your crib.

Third, no1's gonna bust you 4 drinking in your house.

Now if you get a fake i.d, as long as you don't go to flashy clubs where the doormen look like dicks, no one should take it I've been around Brooklyn a fair amount, not as much as Manhattan though, and I've never had mine confiscated. If you still want to find places that you can get alcohol at, most of the "cozier" sushi bars in lower Manhattan don't card, and they're usually more intimate anyway. Plus, there are always BYOB restaurants. You can probably find a liquor store, wine shop, or corner convenience store that doesn't card and bring what you buy there to a bring-your-own alcohol place. Some of my friends recommend BYOB hookah dates, but I'm not really into that. Or, bring a flask with you or bring bottles filled with gatorade and clear rum to sip while you and your girl walk around, go into a sushi place, etc.

EDIT: You can come up with lot's of excuses for her to come to your place before or after the date. Like Tuth said, you can tell her you want to show her something you mentioned in your first conversation with her, like "This drink I learned how to make that's great for pre gaming" or "This wall I'm deciding what color to paint," but with college girls, "wanna pre game?" is probably enough. If you think they're still hesitant about going back to your place even after pre-gaming there before the date you can tell her you "wanna show her a movie," watch T.V, or if you didn't use up that "Lemme show you this drink I know..." when you were pre gaming, you can use it now. After that just follow Tuth's procedure of talking, putting down the drink, making out, escalating. If you still don't think the girl feels comfortable once she's at your crib, you can try G Manifesto's strategy of making a light meal. Or, you could use someone else's strategy (Tuth?) of turning down the temperature, putting out a small blanket, and getting rid of nearby pillows while you watch a scary movie in the dark with the girl on your couch. The cold temp. and the scariness, along with the lack of pillows, makes her want to snuggle and hold on to you, and from there you can try escalating from there.

[xmlenigma]

(12-23-2011 12:29 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Good stuff, but I'm surprised that most of this isn't common knowledge! What I found interesting is the not-kiss part. I've done this on a few dates and I must say it's easier to get them to your place if you haven't kissed them yet. Especially on girls under 21, but I've kissed a girl who was 25 and she wouldn't let me back inside of her place. I wonder if this is culture-specific.

Logistics wise; I use my car to get girls back home. I've got the best parking spots around town figured out, and I get them back here without much issue. I usually just drive them back here without saying anything. You don't need to be walking distance from bars but it helps.

I say less than 1/3 of my dates involve alcohol and I still close. Alcohol is overrated if you can think of a good activity to do otherwise. Rock climbing is still the #1 non-alcoholic way to get girls comfortable with me. A lot more fun than sitting at a bar as well.

Quote:

We come in; I tell them it's a "shoeless house"; I wait for them to take off their boots

This is really good advice, as girls feel much more intimate once their shoes are off. True story. I wish I thought of this sooner. Classic line.

I dont DRINK. And I'd like for the lady to not drink or drink less, as well. So, any suggestions on that front would be welcome
I like the rock climbing idea. Though a bit intense.

I've done cooking at her place (she'll cook me some & I'll bring a DVD) or having take out at her place as first dates (while she was packing to move apartments). I am guessing a "cooking together" at your place or hers would work as well? I've had the girl sit on my lap & feed me as well. Sets the tone for romance without alerting her ASD.

(12-24-2011 04:02 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(12-24-2011 02:54 PM)soup Wrote:  

I've had trouble finding bait(s) to drop that justify her going back to my house on a first date. Offering one thing like a drink isn't enough in my experience. I actually try to build and direct the conversations towards things that I can show her (like some kind of music, a video thing, a book that we've talked about, some creative thing that I've made), or some other activity that that we can do at my house. I try to get a few things in there.

I knew a guy that had a huge aquarium full of rare tropical fish. That worked well for him as bait. Having some other kinds of rare or interesting animals should be good. Like if you have tortoises or an iguana or something(not that I'm about to buy one). I've also known some guys who are artists(painters, photographers) who used that angle. In fact if you are an artist that's a goldmine. Let her know you paint or shoot photography, she'll naturally be interested in your work then you offer to take her back and show her. If you play guitar or keyboard, you can offer to show her how to play a few simple tunes. I don't own any video game consoles, but maybe some girls would have fun goofing around with one of those games like Super Mario Cart or something, or those Rock Band games, I imagine that'd be fun if you guys are both buzzing or smoked some weed. Oh and speaking of, if the girl is 420 friendly, having a stash at home on offer should be great bait.

Nice ideas. Depends on what kinda stuff she is into

(12-25-2011 09:04 PM)La Familia Wrote:  

Great write up Tuth, +1. My style is similar to this and is congruent with the life I live. To add on to your suggestion of other non-alcoholic locations, hookah bars work well. All of the ones I've been to are dimly lit lounges with an outside section. While I usually go to these venues with Persian women, you'll find many chicks who are down too because of its "ethnic & cool" factor.

I'd like to have more non alcoholic situations as well.

[MMM]

T-man, this post is gold. "Her hamster is going to be working on overdrive and you need to strangle that little bastard before he fucks you up." LMFAO! I agree that some girls aren't cool with kissing in public, so the logistics are key. Well done gentlemen.

[Prowl]

Bookmarked. Real Talk.

[Seven11]

(12-22-2011 03:02 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

I haven't dropped any game posts in some time, so I thought I'd do a quick write-up of my personal procedure--that's been working wonders for me lately--for securing the bang on the first date. This may or may not be your schtick, but I thought I'd share it with the community.

As usual, I invite you to chop it up with me. I'd like to refine this further, if possible.

Tuthmosis's Homemade First-Date Bangs

Prep Time: 60 mins
Cooking Time: 3-4 hours
Serves 2.

Ingredients

1 free night
1 cute girl
2-4 alcoholic drinks
1 decent/smooth venue (preferably a lounge-style bar)
1 cool bachelor pad
Liberal amounts of logistical planning

Directions

Step 0. Get your logistics (pre-date planning) in order.
Any of you who know my game know that I'm always preaching the "logistics sermon." My credo is that an ounce of logistics is worth a pound of pussy. Even if your game is dog-shit, solid logistics will still get you laid here and there. Logistics is among the most under-developed parts game, in my opinion.

Once you have your system (whatever that is) down, it doesn't require a lot of effort to repeat over and over. In my case, this revolves around--apart from making sure my game-knife as sharp as possible that night--having my pad on complete lock-down:

-Apartment tidied up
-Light dimmers set on optimum setting
-Cool, smooth playlist queued up
-Condom stashes stocked up
-Dishes washed
-Plenty of ice ready for drink making
-Mixers and alcohols stocked

This, of course, pre-supposes an optimal living situation. I live by myself and have a reasonably lounging set-up (with cool, interesting decor); I think this is the ideal situation. If you live with other people, a good atmosphere is still possible, but you need to add the additional step of Roommate Lock-Down, where your housemates know what to do (and more importantly, what not to do) when you come around at night with some talent.

Another piece of logistics involves knowing your surroundings and routes home. You need to have at least one or two go-to places--ideally within walking distance, but otherwise easily accessible--near your pad. This place should, at minimum, have good lighting, good music, comfortable seating (if possible), and serve drinks (and preferably serve no food beyond light "tapas"). Even better, you should know the optimal nights at each place, so that can pick your spot according to the day of the week. If you're a real G, you have each venue's calendar page bookmarked in a folder in your Internet browser. When it's time to make a selection, you hit "load all pages" for that folder and pick accordingly.

This may sound like a lot, but the more of these things your spot has, the higher your chances of doing damage are going to be.

Step 1. Angle your date for optimal logistics.
I'm assuming you've met your girl during the day, online, or quickly at night, where you still haven't actually had significant time alone with her yet. This means, 9.5 times out of 10, that you're going to be coordinating a "first date" via text. I always try to get a girl to a place near my apartment, or within striking distance and along one of my routes to it (a stop on the subway or a reasonable walk).

I often get the psychology set up ahead of time too, adding something like this to my text, "let's start [emphasis added for the purposes of this post] at XYZ Lounge. We can always bounce somewhere else if its lame."

Of course, it goes without saying that you should have observed all of the Game 101 requirements: setting the date up at a time after standard dinner time, keeping your texts functional and minimalist, and waiting to set up the final details until the day of the date (so you have an excuse to ping the girl via text, and thereby minimize flaking).

None of you need to be reminded of this.

Step 2. Get a round of drinks at your first venue.
Don't fuck around with making her buy her own drink or some other principled bullshit. At the same time, don't fall into being her free-refills fountain for the night.

If you've picked a good, loungey bar and gotten there around, say, 9/9:30, during the week (when you should be a doing a "first date" anyway), there'll be ample seating. Grab your seat--with optimal location for your purposes--talk for a couple of minutes, and then say something like the line I've been using since my first day of "formally" practicing game: "what are you drinking? First round's on me."

I don't need to tell you what that implies about the second round.

Step 3. Build some old-school comfort, using generous amounts of "neo-kino"
Sorry to drop some ugly PUA-style jargon here, but this it's important for differentiation purposes. This is the stage where you're going to work your regular player magic, with a slight twist. You're telling stories, jokes, and whatever else is in your particular quill. For me, it's elaborate stories that stack on one another and meander all over the place. That's my neurotic style; it's probably not yours.

Meanwhile, you're doing what I'm going to have to call "neo-kino." Why neo? Because you're omitting all of the stupid palm readings, forced hugs, or other gimmicky, high-energy crap from the early 2000s. It's really the same thing, just considerably more subtle. Everything, needless to say, is smooth and unawkward. Some of what I do:

-Gradually invade her personal space as if she's succeeding in getting you interested. If you do it right, she will reciprocate.
-I touch her legs and arms with the back of the hand for emphasis on certain points
-I high-five her upon cool discoveries about her (in a calm, un-douchey, not-over-enthusiastic way); if she likes a band I like, for instance, I give her a high five
-A couple of times--emphasis on a couple of times--I hold eye contact for a little bit while talking, like I'm telepathically telling the bitch that, "I'm going to make out with [her] soon"

This shit is so nuanced that it's nearly impossible to describe in-person, never mind in an Internet post. Everyone is different, so your style of touching may be also, but just make sure to do a good amount of it.

Meanwhile, during the conversation portion, I've talked up--among other things--the bar in my apartment or some "new drink" that "I've learned to make." I'm not pushing it, I just drop the seed and move on. This doesn't have to be a drink, but it's what I use. Just insert your pad into the conversation somehow, so you can have a fake "aha! moment" about it later.

Step 4. Absolutely do not kiss her. Do not, I repeat, go for the make-out at the venue.
This is the counter-intuitive part. There will be a logical time where it seems like you should, and could, go for the escalating make-out. Ideally, this will be around the time you've finished off a slow-paced first round of drinks. If you've played your logistics correctly, you will have settled your tab (by not opening one in the first place) on the first round, so you're free to leave the venue at any point.

But don't kiss her. You should imply (physically) that you might be starting to want to, but "haven't decided yet." This means giving the subtle physical cues--like the ever-so-slightly lingering eye contact above--not some sort of overt act. She'll likely be giving you some of her own cues that she's down, but don't do it. Of course, don't avoid it pussy-like, like you're scared to do it, but like you're steadily being won you over. Keep in mind that you're being gregarious and touchy the whole time, not awkward and uncomfortable. This is very subtle physical communication, but being in that state-of-mind will help to convey this emotion.

At around the 60 to 90-minute mark, I say something like, "hey, let's do round two somewhere else." You may get some, "I have to work (or class) the next day" resistance, that's why it's important to do it on the early side, since this early in evening, it's still too early to raise this concern. She can't argue with you.

This--if I haven't already done so--is where I suggest that we go to my place, so I can "make her that drink" or whatever bachelor-pad bait I've used that night. What's more, "I live pretty close from here anyway." She knows that I'm going to try something, because I've done everything in my power to subtly suggest it, but she can reasonably expect that that's going to be merely making out. A little private make-out session probably sounds good (and safe) to her, so she's more-than-likely going to be down.

This is where not spending your make-out token plays a big part. She has iron-clad plausible deniability that all you're looking for is a private place to make out with her, that's all. Because nothing's happened so far, she feels a lot less committed about going over to your place than if you'd already made out and the next thing on the escalation hierarchy has to be sexual.

Because you've been charming and cool, you don't seem like a chump who can't put it down either. She wants to make out with you and recognizes this is her chance.

Step 5. Keep up the energy from the first venue on the move to your place.
This is important, and where I believe most guys go wrong on the move to their place. Having had only one drink, this girl is not intoxicated and she's going to the apartment of a dude she's known for an aggregate of maybe two hours, if that. Her hamster is going to be working on overdrive and you need to strangle that little bastard before he fucks you up.

One of my few talents--that I probably milk to death in my game--is making people feel at ease. I don't know why this is, but I'm often called "disarming." I'm very good about telling stories and eliciting related stories from girls and keeping them distracted. Because your place (if you've done your logistical homework correctly) is only like 10-15 minutes away, you only need to keep up this act for a short period.

If you can't talk about interesting stuff for a continuous 15 minutes, go directly to the newbie forum this instant, and stay there until you can.

I'm shocked at how consistently girls will comment on the "danger" of going home "with a stranger." It's like they're reading from a script. I had, literally, three girls over the course of the past 10 days say the same, identical shit. Of course, girls love "dangerous situations" so play on that. Why do hot girls love horror movies and hanging around with social deviants? It some psychological hard-wiring.

I always say, "what's the worst that can happen?" with an ironic tone in my voice. Gets them laughing every time. Sometimes, depending on the personality of the girl, I lay it on thick about chopping them up into little bits and adding them to my white-girl collection.

Step 6. Get her comfortable and situated in your spot.
I have the same exact routine when I come into my place with a girl. It's so similar that I sometimes feel a little dirty and guilty about it. Mostly, though, I feel like I'm going to work.

We come in; I tell them it's a "shoeless house"; I wait for them to take off their boots (and wait for them to comment about how their socks don't match, which they always do); I apologize for the "mess" because I "didn't expect to have guests" (bullshit, of course); and I give them "the tour"--which is also pre-scripted. I tell them to sit down on my couch (which is also my bed) and "get comfortable." I start the same exact playlist iTunes on my big multimedia setup and go to work on the same one or two drinks I know how to make.

If she has to piss, I let her do that. Same. Thing. Every Time.

Having a polished system like this helps.

Step 7. Give her the drink, sit down, and go back to work.
Now you're in the home stretch, player. You're comfortable and isolated. It gets easy from here. I usually sip the drink with her and chat for another 10-12 minutes; just long enough for her to barely start to wonder if I'm actually not going to make a move. "Is this guy actually atttracted to me? Is he a pussy? He seems into me, though. What the fuck?" Then, if she hasn't set her drink down herself already, I take her drink, set it on the coffee table, and start the make out.

It's amazing how enthusiastic a little waiting will have made her to receive your manly advances. They devour me half the time. The last one squealed in glee a little.

Step 8. Escalate like a champ.
This is where your old friend plausible deniability goes to bat for you. She only "expected" a private little make-out session--since you smartly left that token in your pocket--but if your make-out game is tight, you're a master at smoothly rounding those bases. Escalate expertly, like the goddamn RVF champ that you are. Because my couch doubles as a bed, I lay them out and go to town. I deflect LMR by periodically coming back up for "a sip of our drinks," before going back to work and advancing the ball upfield each time.

Step 9. Bang.
My conversion rates are considerably higher with this framework than going old-school: doing the make out at the venue and trying to get her back to my place after that. Invariably, you end up having to go for the bang on the second date (if she doesn't flake in between), because she sees the make-out as "giving you enough" to string your hongry-ass along for longer. But with this recipe, not getting the bang is more the exception than the rule. Of course I've had a few of prospects stop short. But I get farther along nonetheless. And, in one of those situations I was, quite literally, cockblocked by a tampon.

Needless to say, your rock-solid logistical planning is going to yield dividends at the bang stage. The good music, nice lighting, and prompt condom access lubricates your dick right into to the love canal.

I don't need to remind you to make sure you put it down respectably, at least. Even if you're not a sex god, make it memorable.

Step 10. Damage Control.
If you're like me, you prefer to bang prospects a few times (rather than once). Call me a romantic. If that's also your goal, you want to be prepared to do a little bit of damage control on the rapid bang. (Keep in mind that you will have banged this girl with three or four hours.) That doesn't mean you have to assuage every weird little emotion she may be going through, it just means you have to go back to being your cool, charming self for a while. It should be seamless.

This is probably cheesy (and unnecessary), but I sometimes throw this in at the end: "Whoa. I didn't expect that to happen."

--

Endnote:

The interesting part about this whole thing is that I (indirectly) learned this move from a chick. Who says you can't learn game from a woman? Just don't listen to to women, watch them. You can learn some shit.

The chick was this cute, but super-shy, college girl who was giving me mad signals. After dropping some solid game at a local lounge (on a "first date"), which brought her out of her shell, I went for the make out. This is how it went down:

Shy Girl [backing away from me]: Here?!
Tuthmosis: Yeah. [incredulously and continuing to advance]
Shy Girl: I don't really like P.D.A. [public display of affection, in case you don't know]
Tuthmosis: Well, I live less than 10 minutes from here. Let's go. [I actually lived 15 minutes from that place]
Grabbed her by the wrist and bounced.

The light bulb went off after that: some girls prefer to "make out" in private. Live and learn.

This is some impeccable shit.