[joehoya]

Looking at the photos, I am noticing something interesting. While the quality of girls isn't that great, the quality of guys is abysmal. Sure, there are a few pics of well dressed, good looking dudes, but there are more beta/omega types than anything. A lot of these dudes look like they just pulled out whatever wasn't to funky in their hamper and wore that to the event. I went to two of the schools on the list, I can guarantee you that on average, dudes had more game/style than the one's shown in these photos. Whereas the girls are about the same quality I experienced in school.

So, it appears that we are now in a situation where 5-15 years after graduation, the quality of eligible guys who meet the Ivy Plus Society criteria has dropped, but the quality of girls has remained the same. Why is that?

My theory is that it has to due with hypergamy among females and the lack of hypergamy among males. Back in college, people mostly dated folks from their same school, so finding someone who went to a school of your stature (and thus, was close to your social status) was a non-issue. However, upon graduation, when these guys enter the workforce the dating field opens up. Men and women from these elite schools now have the option to date folks from non-elite schools because they are interacting with them more than they did in college.

Here is the absolute beauty of it. The men, because they place little to no value on the university/income of the women, start to date attractive women who went to lower tier schools. Whereas the women restrict themselves more to guys who went to the same quality schools or higher (you can insert high income earning guys into this group as well). The ramifications are obvious. Because women of lower status are taking men of higher status, the women of higher status have fewer quality men to date. This is amplified once they hit their late twenties and early thirties, when a HUGE number of higher status guys have been taken off of the market because of marriage.

The end result are the photos of Ivy Plus Society parties. A few alpha guys, a ton of beta/omega dudes, and a group of educated, lonely women wondering what they did wrong to wind up like this.

I think I might check those events out next year. My bet is that a dude with the basic credentials, plus the minimal social accessories (e.g. decent condo in a nice neighborhood) and a little game could kill there.

[Excelsior]

Exactly.

College is literally as good as it gets for these women. Combine aging with the effects of hypergamy that you mentioned hitting upon graduation, and it becomes clear that it is all down hill after senior year for these girls. At no other time in their life are they going to enjoy direct, almost uncontested access to such an abundant pool of high quality (read: future high status, athletic, etc) men, and at no other time in their life is their value (thanks to their youth and the relative lack of competition from hotter girls at "lower tier" schools, which doesn't open up more until after graduation) going to be higher. A smart girl realizes this and takes the opportunity to lock down one of these high quality men before any other pool of women get to take a shot at him later.

The sad thing is that most of these women, for reasons I already outlined, don't take advantage of this opportunity. Their insecurity and arrogance, among other things, won't let them. Instead they either try to play the field or keep trying to climb the social ladder, passing up a lot of great guys here in the process in the conviction that they can still "do better", and shouldn't settle. Little do they know that it doesn't get any better, and they've already vastly overplayed their hand. College is their top floor-there is nowhere else to go but down.

The guys get the last laugh. These colleges are just the ground floor for them.

[Samseau]

(12-03-2011 12:35 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(12-03-2011 12:11 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm laughing at you hard son

You're gonna love law school!

In a much bigger city with the option to get at many non-ivy girls (a choice I do not have in my relatively small college town)?

With your thirty hours of free time, how many will you devote to chasing women?

168 hours in a week

8 hours of sleep a night.
6 hours a day in lawschool, 5 days a week. (This includes time spent on campus inbetween classes, lunch, and the "student organizations" you'll be pressured into attending.)
21 hours more per week studying if you're going for a high GPA and law review.
3 workouts a week, 1 hour each plus travel time to gym.
Taking a dump, eating food, groceries, errands, etc... let's say you're superman, and get all of this done in fewer than 7 hours per week.


50 hours of free time is all you get.

You think you'll have it that much easier than you do in undergrad, where you have between 80-100 free hours per week?

How much time will a man get to spend on gaming new girls with only 50 hours of free time per week?


The vast majority of your time will be spent socializing with the types of girls you hate now in your ivy league. You will not be released from hell until the 3rd year of law school when your chance to make Law Review has been played.

[5K2D]

Two things:
1. I don't think Ivy girls on the whole are that bad . . . I've met many who are legitimately interesting. But you definitely get many bad ones.
2. The society is a joke. There are plenty of spaces on and around Ivy campuses for deep connections/networks to develop, but this half-assed club night has far too weak of a social pull to compete.

[Menace]

(12-03-2011 03:36 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(12-03-2011 12:35 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(12-03-2011 12:11 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm laughing at you hard son

You're gonna love law school!

In a much bigger city with the option to get at many non-ivy girls (a choice I do not have in my relatively small college town)?

With your thirty hours of free time, how many will you devote to chasing women?

[snip]

Not to derail, but I gotta echo Samseau here. I'm in my final year at law school, and honestly, unless your undergrad is electrical engineering and you intend to do patent law, I just can't recommend it. Law school is much different from undergrad. It will consume so much time you will not even believe it. Your 1L memo, a little 3-5 page affair, will take DAYS AND DAYS of your time. Trust me. And yes, you will have some free time, but how much energy will you have?

You'll be studying all the time and going to bar review (the weekly school outing to an area bar) where you can hit on all the law school ladies because it's just easier, and the social system is designed for it.

You seem like a smart guy, why not do finance or something? Same BS but more money potentially.

[Excelsior]

(12-03-2011 03:36 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

With your thirty hours of free time, how many will you devote to chasing women?

168 hours in a week

8 hours of sleep a night.
6 hours a day in lawschool, 5 days a week. (This includes time spent on campus inbetween classes, lunch, and the "student organizations" you'll be pressured into attending.)
21 hours more per week studying if you're going for a high GPA and law review.
3 workouts a week, 1 hour each plus travel time to gym.
Taking a dump, eating food, groceries, errands, etc... let's say you're superman, and get all of this done in fewer than 7 hours per week.


50 hours of free time is all you get.

You think you'll have it that much easier than you do in undergrad, where you have between 80-100 free hours per week?

I don't have that much time in undergrad. I have classes for 2-3 hours a day in most cases, but I usually add 4-6 more onto that for most days (especially in the heart of a term) in order to study, plus 30-45 minutes for workouts and another 30-60 minutes just walking around to and fro.

I don't go to a school where you can give yourself 80-100 hours a week and still expect to get high grades-the only way I keep my GPA up where it is is by investing a lot of time. This isn't state school, and grade inflation here (though it does exist) simply isn't as generous as people like to think it is. If you want A's and you aren't a Women/Gender Studies or Languages major (where pretty much everyone does actually get an A), you must put in extra hours here. Probably not as many as law school requires for success, but much less than the 80-100 allowance you can keep to yourself in other places.

This, and I was also a D1 athlete. I'm used to having much less time than I do even now, and I found time for girls then, despite having fewer places to go get them (read: not a lot of other big schools/people nearby to draw girls from).
I also don't work out in the gym. My program allows me to do it all at home/in my dorm.

Quote:

The vast majority of your time will be spent socializing with the types of girls you hate now in your ivy league. You will not be released from hell until the 3rd year of law school when your chance to make Law Review has been played.

Well, alright then.

[Excelsior]

(12-03-2011 10:58 AM)Menace Wrote:  

You seem like a smart guy, why not do finance or something? Same BS but more money potentially.

You know the stereotype of the "High-Expectations Asian Father"?

I have the High-Expectations Caribbean Mother. Failing to go straight to grad school is highly frowned upon where I'm from.

[Menace]

(12-03-2011 01:47 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(12-03-2011 10:58 AM)Menace Wrote:  

You seem like a smart guy, why not do finance or something? Same BS but more money potentially.

You know the stereotype of the "High-Expectations Asian Father"?

I have the High-Expectations Caribbean Mother. Failing to go straight to grad school is highly frowned upon where I'm from.

Okay, then why not a Wharton MBA? 2/3 the cost and 2/3 the time of law school.

[Excelsior]

(12-03-2011 01:56 PM)Menace Wrote:  

(12-03-2011 01:47 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(12-03-2011 10:58 AM)Menace Wrote:  

You seem like a smart guy, why not do finance or something? Same BS but more money potentially.

You know the stereotype of the "High-Expectations Asian Father"?

I have the High-Expectations Caribbean Mother. Failing to go straight to grad school is highly frowned upon where I'm from.

Okay, then why not a Wharton MBA? 2/3 the cost and 2/3 the time of law school.

To stand a good chance at Wharton (or any other elite business school), I'd need some work experience, which would still translate to me not going straight to grad school after undergrad.

Ideally, I'd consider working for a couple of years (or maybe even trying to get a fellowship overseas or something) then going all in for a full JD/MBA all at once, but as it stands I'm leaning closer towards just the JD (which I can get done much earlier).

[MrM27]

(12-03-2011 02:07 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(12-03-2011 01:56 PM)Menace Wrote:  

(12-03-2011 01:47 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(12-03-2011 10:58 AM)Menace Wrote:  

You seem like a smart guy, why not do finance or something? Same BS but more money potentially.

You know the stereotype of the "High-Expectations Asian Father"?

I have the High-Expectations Caribbean Mother. Failing to go straight to grad school is highly frowned upon where I'm from.

Okay, then why not a Wharton MBA? 2/3 the cost and 2/3 the time of law school.

To stand a good chance at Wharton (or any other elite business school), I'd need some work experience, which would still translate to me not going straight to grad school after undergrad.

Ideally, I'd consider working for a couple of years (or maybe even trying to get a fellowship overseas or something) then going all in for a full JD/MBA all at once, but as it stands I'm leaning closer towards just the JD (which I can get done much earlier).

Hey Athlone, as an Ivy 10 years out with plenty of friends who did the grad school path, listen to Samseau. You're not spending much time in law school out socially much until 3rd year, which is the easiest year of law school. With an Ivy undegrad degree, you can make plenty of money without incurrign the debt involved with a joint JD-MBA. Maybe a 2-3 year break with a job will give you time to evaluate what you truly want in life instead of what your Caribbean mom expects.

I'd never waste time at an Ivyplus event. I looked thru Ivyplus Chicago and saw a bunch of fugsters.

[Prowl]

Con: An Ivy-league centric organized dating event in Washington DC is precisely the kind of event I usually want to avoid. I don't give chicks bennies because of where they went to college. This seems like it would draw out the WORST DC chicks. Only a handful of boner-inducing females in the DC photos (predictably).

Pro: Girls must be fucking desperate to go to something like this, so I bet that while you'd have to tolerate a lot of boring "where did you go to school" sort of conversation, most of these girls are probably also two zinfandels away from a BJ in the bathroom.

Consensus:

[Sushifan]

Beauty and brains generally don't mix.

Women want men to be smart, educated, successful, dominant, confident, big earners, etc.

But men don't want ANY of these qualities in a girl. We want beautiful, elegant, feminine, youthful, caring, giver personalities, etc.

But these dumb bitches think that since they want these traits in men, they are going to be the exact same way and then they will find their match. Dumber than a bucket of rocks, despite the ivy league degree.

And I qualify for that TIPS for both my undergrad and graduate degree and I'm exactly what those bitches are looking for. But I wouldn't give them even a glance.

How smart should my woman be? Just smart enough. And not a bit more.

[Excelsior]

(12-03-2011 03:01 PM)MrM27 Wrote:  

Hey Athlone, as an Ivy 10 years out with plenty of friends who did the grad school path, listen to Samseau. You're not spending much time in law school out socially much until 3rd year, which is the easiest year of law school. With an Ivy undegrad degree, you can make plenty of money without incurrign the debt involved with a joint JD-MBA. Maybe a 2-3 year break with a job will give you time to evaluate what you truly want in life instead of what your Caribbean mom expects.

We''ll see. All I know is that it'll probably be a step up from where I'm at now, so I really don't mind.

As for what I want in life, law actually is my first career choice (consulting would probably be second), so her pressure is not out of line with my interests. The thing is I also want some financial comfort, which I'd have to delay for a year or two if I want to go straight to grad school instead of working.
Oh well, small price to pay I guess.

@Prowl: Trust me, you don't want.