[kimleebj]

There are threads about self-defense and "street fights". But I'm not sure those are the most relevant for guys here. I want to discuss realistic fight scenarios, and how to manage them. I have little experience. But you are at higher risk when you hang out in bars, after midnight, around drunk, frustrated dudes, hitting on the same women.

I inadvertently antagonized a guy in a bar by insulting his fiancee. We didn't fight, but he got irate, so I just left. I also read Roosh's recent story about a sucker punch and drink spill by a jealous boyfriend.

We are probably not talking about a duel or gang fight here. Instead you piss a guy off by robbing his girl, or cockblocking him. He is probably drunk and angry. He won't immediately attack you, but there might be shoving that escalates. I was impressed by an old post where Fisto slapped a guy.

I'm sure that in most of these situations, an actual fight is not the best outcome. But you must be prepared. And there are social skills to manage the outcome better. I would appreciate common scenarios and plans for handling them.

[Giovonny]

If you gotta ask this question then you should not be getting in any type of a physical confrontation.

Say sorry and offer to buy the guy a drink.

If you can fight, you are not on forums asking for advice.

If you can't fight you have to use your verbal skills to diffuse the situation.

All this talk about fighting is stupid to me. We are gonna give somebody some courage and then they are gonna go out and get their head kicked in.

Avoiding fights is a higher art form.

[scorpio]

Kind of a loaded topic, but some comments you made seem very amateurish to me.

For instance, why would you be hitting on the same women at the same time with some other guy? Kind of elevates her ego, no? Insulting a guy's fiancee when he's physically around seems like a waste of time from multiple angles.

As for fighting. Consider that some guys hang out in groups, and their posse comes out from nowhere you saw. Or that alcohol impairs your hand-eye coordination. Or you may get thrown out of the place. Another thing too is that everyone likes to see a fight and make fun of the drunken idiots involved afterwards.

[hydrogonian]

Check the recent self defense thread for my comments on actually fighting.

But seriously, your BEST options are:

1. Walking/running away.
2. Calling the cops

Distant third:

3. Fighting


Your criminal record and civil liability are your biggest financial concerns, and his health and your health or your other big concerns. You can seriously injure or kill him and he can do the same to you, even when you didn't mean it.

Its just-not-worth-it, in terms if indulging your impulse to fight or look cool. You have to pay too much int terms of the sacrifices that you make for having an assault charge on your record, money to pay for attorney fees or civil penalties, or jail time.

Recently, I had a friend that went to jail for 30 days for one fight. His employer was unsympathetic. Now, he needs another job.

Just walk away. If he follows you, call the cops. If he attacks you, then fight. Its good to know how to fight for that eventuality. See the other thread.

[Ehnulo]

As already mentioned the best thing is to avoid it. But if you must dig deeper I suggest boxing. the punching range is the most useful in most (not all) street fights. The ones where its not however...

[el mechanico]

One good thing to practice would be Sheepdog skills. You kinda want to move the herd around without anyone getting hurt. If you could get people moving in your favor with voice and body language you have it whipped. Actual fighting skills you can work on in the meantime.

Sometimes you could just look at someone and totally defuse them. If I could describe it would be like the same look you would give your garbage man if you caught him taking trash out of his truck to fill your cans.

[Samseau]

(11-26-2011 02:55 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

If you gotta ask this question then you should not be getting in any type of a physical confrontation.

Say sorry and offer to buy the guy a drink.

If you can fight, you are not on forums asking for advice.

If you can't fight you have to use your verbal skills to diffuse the situation.

All this talk about fighting is stupid to me. We are gonna give somebody some courage and then they are gonna go out and get their head kicked in.

Avoiding fights is a higher art form.

Yep.

Fighting is one of those talents you are born with and can hone through practice. If you've made it to 30 without ever being in a serious fight, it's safe to say your fighting skills will be far behind guys who knew how to throw a punch at 7.

[hydrogonian]

I actually find that in all hand to hand combat type of situations (street-fighting, wrestling, martial arts, etc) it takes getting beat down a bunch to learn. You learn how to take it and not care, fight back, and win. Without going through that process, you won't have much success. Maybe some luck, but not consistent success. And the lucky success isn't probable unless you are matched against someone who is also poorly experienced.

[Samseau]

(11-27-2011 04:31 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

I actually find that in all hand to hand combat type of situations (street-fighting, wrestling, martial arts, etc) it takes getting beat down a bunch to learn. You learn how to take it and not care, fight back, and win. Without going through that process, you won't have much success. Maybe some luck, but not consistent success. And the lucky success isn't probable unless you are matched against someone who is also poorly experienced.

I've seen plenty of men who, no matter how many times they recieve a beat down, would never improve their fighting skills.

[YoungGunner]

also read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Little-Black-Book-...812&sr=8-1

[johnw28]

From experience the majority of the time when you stand your ground they will back down. Tell them one of us is going to the hospital and the other to jail tonight and it doesn't matter to me which one I am. But I also boxed and wrestled for 15 years. Between high school and college. Knowing when to step into a hit and away from a hit is one of the most important parts of fighting. But with proper posturing like game you can win without a blow.

[hydrogonian]

(11-27-2011 04:33 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

I've seen plenty of men who, no matter how many times they recieve a beat down, would never improve their fighting skills.

Ha..well, that's true too. I meant to imply that it has to be in an environment where you are constantly trying to upgrade your skills. Not just taking random beat-downs, recovering, not training, and taking another one. For most guys, street-fights will be few and far in-between, if ever. But the experience of one or two will certainly teach you that its different than anything that you can prepare for, and perhaps how to take a bare knuckled punch in the face and keep going - (which can be both mentally and physically jarring). In general, though, I think that the training mat will be where you learn to take beat-downs, as you improve your skills. However, I think its important to enter actual competitions in wrestling, boxing, MMA, etc.. to best simulate an unexpected situation. That adrenaline rush, and that level of physical exertion, can only be approximated with competition. Learning how to deal with that physical and mental state takes experience.

[MikeCF]

People are a lot like dogs. You're either bred or raised to be "game."

Watch Brock Lesnar. He's a .0001% human specimen. He HATES being punched in the face. Guys with lesser genetics have beat him because he's not "game."

It's really really hard to find gameness later in life. Gameness usually comes from difficult early life circumstances.

Why do you think the best fighters are blacks and Russians? There's a genetic component to it, sure. Yet it's also because blacks and Russians live in bad environments. That environment will either destroy you or make you stronger.

[kimleebj]

(11-26-2011 03:28 PM)scorpio Wrote:  

Insulting a guy's fiancee ... seems like a waste of time.

Cliff Notes: It's late in DC. I'm randomly introduced to a woman by a guy who immediately leaves. She joins a conversational circle of men. I joke:

"Kinky is when you stimulate your partner with a feather. Perverted is when you use the whole chicken."

Unknown guy says: "Be careful, there is a lady present."

I quip: "I haven't determined that yet."

It turns out he was her fiancee, and they were having problems. He had been paying her rent for a year, with no planned marriage date. Bad luck for everyone.

Anyway, let me rephrase the original question. Under what circumstances is fighting ability useful, and how should it be employed?

[hydrogonian]

You did the right thing in leaving.

Alternate scenario after he gets irate:

You: Look man, I'm actually really sorry about my quip. Its a bit of a reflex for me, and had I known that you two were an item, I would have been extra respectful (let the guy know you respect him). I do apologize.

Now, the problem with that is it won't always work. An angry meathead is an angry meathead, and a lot of times they can't be backed down. Especially if he's been drinking.

Actually, you should have been tipped off with his weird "Watch it there's a lady present" remark and checked yourself, not out of respect for her, but because you have some weird angry idiot about to blow next to you. But, in the cases where you don't catch the warning signs:

You can try to back guys down by showing respect. It'll probably work 50% of the time. Otherwise, the best strategy is to walk. If you HAVE to fight, that's a tough one, because it really depends on him and his skill level.

If he's a good enough fighter (wrestler, boxer, etc) your probably fucked. Just cover up if you feel overwhelmed.

If he seems like he's got some lame fighting skill, then make sure that you hold your hands in front of your face, all the way up. Keep your right foot back if you are right handed, and follow through by stepping forward and twisting your hips a bit (is that right, boxers?) as you punch with your right hand. Your power comes from the step and your hips. Then, cover your face again after you pull your punch back. Set up your dominant hand punches with punches from the other hand, which will be thrown without the step forward (jabbing). But do all of this fast. No taking it easy.

Punching speed can sometimes win fights. Throw flurries of fast punches so that he might be overwhelmed and a couple might land. Fast punching is an okay way to make up for a general lack of technique, sometimes. Also, no "windmill" punches. Keep your punches either straight or hooked, if necessary.

Also, be sure not to go off your feet, but try to get him off of his.

I can't give you wrestling moves, as they can't be taught on a forum.

In general, though, walk away.

[scorpio]

There's a lot of good info on this thread, and the logical nature of your inquiry kind of suggests that you never been in one. This is what a real fight is like...

For reasons I'd rather not discuss, I snapped. I followed him to the back of the bus. When he turned around to react, I took my right hand and grabbed his throat and choked him. In one turn, I slammed his head onto the hard bus seat and said, "if you ever do that again, I'll fucking kill you, you dumb shit." When I saw fear in his eyes, I gave him one last glance and then let go. The bus driver and everyone on board was shocked and scared senseless. I sat down somewhere else, and in a minute, everyone acted like nothing had happened. It was on a public bus in a major city.

If you're not prepared to be either of those guys, then don't fight, you know? When is it okay to fight? It's different for each person, as some people really hate violence, and others are more inclined to it. If I'm rational and calm, I'd say I would fight if the reason was worth it, I had a solid chance of winning, and I was prepared to accept the consequences... any consequences. But in the heat of the moment, you're not really thinking. You just go off.

That's why it's really important to manage situations so that neither you nor the other guy is even close to that point. I can confidently say that nearly all fights can be avoided without being humiliated. Humor is good. De-escalating situations as the better guy is a second-line of defense. If that doesn't work, aggressive posturing is also effective as el-mech has stated.

It's not uncommon for aggression to be charged up in environments involving women and sex. Keeping that aggression within acceptable limits is key. Do you want a busted face that further lowers your chances with the ladies in the future?

For you guys who think taking some self-defense class is the answer, realize that when you're finally in a fight, your brain is going to freeze and all the cool moves you can perform in a normal state are suddenly forgotten. Certainly, if you fought as a kid, you're more tapped into it. In reality though, some kids who did fight sucked at it. Some people are just more inclined to be violent. And you don't know if that other guy is that guy.

[kerouac]

Fighting is only useful for two things:

1) Personal Pride
2) Asserting your dominance (socially)

In this situation, if this guy is willing to get into a fight over your comment, which he probably isn't in this day-and-age if he's already engaged, then you can probably de-escalate the situation by talking your way out of it like suggested above.

Now, getting back to the two reasons:

1) Personal Pride-- In this case, a guy who is naturally inclined to fighting might engage. It gives him an adrenaline rush and he is willing to sieze that enjoyment just for fun or release. Now, take a look at the guy's demeanor and ask yourself if you would judge him to be a loose cannon. I think this should be an instinctual response you'll get, and you can quickly determine if he is a threat. Most likely, if he is a guy who is engaged and is trying to defend his lady's "honor" then he's just being earnest or old-fashioned or whatever, and is just doing it to get some sort of climactic response from his "lady." I wouldn't worry about it. If you dismiss it he'll probably just leave it alone, and only hope that when he gets back his "lady" will give him some nookie for his "honorable" deed.

2) Asserting Social Dominance-- I think (and if anyone else thinks differently please chime in) this sort of aggression will only pop up if you're in someone's territory (like let's say you're going to a club that's frequented by a clique who feels like they own it) and you hit on one of regular's girls. This will result in a sort of response purely because you're stepping into the wolf's territory. There's going to be a natural animalistic response. Anyway, you're only going to experience this in a place that has regulars who are trying to display their social dominance (in that setting).

In either case, you should usually feel when you're in a situation that can escalate beforehand, and make a judgment call whether you're going to get yourself in that situation or not.

This is where paying attention to body language plays a big role. Is the guy going to talk the talk or walk the walk?