[Chase]

I am having problems with calibration.

I met this girl from POF, we had a drink at a restaurant, moved on to a bar for more drinks and some antipasti. It went well, I brought her to my place, which is close by, on the pretext that I need to show her something. She mentioned her last train, but came with me anyway. I opened another bottle of wine, escalated, kissed her, moved her to the bed.

I didn’t remind her, and she missed her last train. I told her to relax, it’s no big deal. She insisted on going to the station anyway, we waited for another train to a similar destination that takes longer and requires her to pay for a rather expensive taxi ride.

She accused me of being too pushy. “Are you doing this to all the girls?” I told her that I just like her. “Have you been single for too long? How can you like me, you don’t even know me. I have to think about it now.” Anti-slut-rationalization.

My goal was not to trick her into staying over, I was just trying how far I could go.

What would you do? Any ideas on how to get better at this?

[Caligula]

Looks like you played it right. Doing this well breeds buyer's remorse. Look up some of the other threads on the subject.

You were along the right lines but a stronger frame would have been "it just happened". Which is harder to pull off if you've pushed hard.

Some girls have this issue more than others. Wish I knew how to eliminate it.

[gringochileno]

Yeah, you want to try and create that "it just happened" story even while pushing as hard as you can. Doing little things like throwing in false time constraints can go a long way. For instance, when she mentioned the train you could have said "that's fine, you can't stay long anyway. I need to be up early."

"Are you doing this to all the girls?" is a shit test. I would have agreed and amplified with something along the lines of "oh yeah, you're the 8th one this week. Don't worry, if you play your cards right you have a great shot at landing a top 3 spot in my harem!" Then I would have accused her of intentionally missing her train so she could stay and seduce me. By taking her seriously you bought into her frame and gave her the opportunity to put the spotlight on you and come up with a bunch of reasons not to fuck you. Remember, she needs to be the one chasing you, and you're the one who's not sure about her and constantly fending off her advances. Yes, the reality is that the opposite is what's going on, but if you assume that frame and stick to it it will quickly become the reality.

[Chase]

“It just happened”, was what I had in mind. It came across as a bit too pre-planned. That’s the tricky part.

From her profile and our conversations, I figured that she is the type of hot, Asian party girl, mainly interested in fashion, cosmetics and money. Also, she was drinking generously (three martinis and a wine), so I was in the mood to go for it.

Usually, I stop for a while when I feel she is getting tense and uncomfortable, then try again a few minutes later. Setting the right frames earlier during the date for a same night bang also helps - if you can do it. I just don’t follow a check-list in my head.

[Insignia]

In my opinion, I think you should of kept your frame and continue escalating, the reason why she said you were "pushy" is because of the social conditioning that social has enforced on what is acceptable and what is not(if you live in North America, it is much worse). The girl was definately not use to this alpha behaviour, having a strong frame would help here.

[Chase]

(11-11-2011 08:13 PM)Insignia Wrote:  

In my opinion, I think you should of kept your frame and continue escalating, the reason why she said you were "pushy" is because of the social conditioning that social has enforced on what is acceptable and what is not(if you live in North America, it is much worse). The girl was definately not use to this alpha behaviour, having a strong frame would help here.

Agreed. She was getting pretty upset about the train thing and I took the safe route, because I found out during the date that she has some character flaws.
You know, you don't want to be accused of rape or shit like that.

For example, she has a short temper and is openly racist, hates Thai and Indian and Cambodian and all kinds of people. When the waiter did not serve us right away, she wanted me to complain to the general manager. Take it easy, girl.

[iknowexactly]

Anyone that is openly racist on a first date is:

1) Arrogant

2) stupid, not as in mistaken momentarily but lacking in basic ability to think. (more so than bright girls). I think most people have SOME socially unacceptable pre-conceptions of others, but unbridled trumpeting of them is a dimwit move. Anyone with a few socially skilled nerve cells would keep these things low key and if they really want to express them do it tactfully as possible.

3) the reason she doesn't have to be tactful is she has been utterly, utterly spoiled and just KNOWS she is a special snowflake.

4) High irritability = more chance mood disorder. Why feed into bitchiness when you can quickly call out "next."

God, you really want to deal with this bitch?

Your question, however, was how to deal with buyer's remorse. I can't really offer ideas, I don't think cooperating with the stated train-making agenda is Beta, it just seems like basic consideration. Theoretically it's her job though to keep her own appointments.

But then again she's a bitchybitch, making everything three times as hard and not worth it as she'll never reliably fuck without annoying drama.

[Timoteo]

(11-11-2011 08:36 PM)Chase Wrote:  

(11-11-2011 08:13 PM)Insignia Wrote:  

In my opinion, I think you should of kept your frame and continue escalating, the reason why she said you were "pushy" is because of the social conditioning that social has enforced on what is acceptable and what is not(if you live in North America, it is much worse). The girl was definately not use to this alpha behaviour, having a strong frame would help here.

Agreed. She was getting pretty upset about the train thing and I took the safe route, because I found out during the date that she has some character flaws.
You know, you don't want to be accused of rape or shit like that.

For example, she has a short temper and is openly racist, hates Thai and Indian and Cambodian and all kinds of people. When the waiter did not serve us right away, she wanted me to complain to the general manager. Take it easy, girl.

This chick is a nut, but if she's hot and you think you're close to the bang, stay with it. Mistreatment of people they consider "lower" than them is a major red flag, and gives insight into who she really is. That shit will get turned on YOU when she's displeased, and she'll probably always find a reason to be displeased about something. The fact that she came back to the crib, drank more, made out and let you feel her up even though she had to catch a train means she's attracted obviously, but again, her blaming you for missing the train shows she doesn't take responsibility for her own decisions. She'll be blaming you for ANYTHING that doesn't go right. Because she's crazy, she'll fuck your brains out, so I say get that nut (because you've already invested time), then treat her like dirt and see if the attitude changes.

[Chase]

iknowexactly Wrote:

God, you really want to deal with this bitch?

Definitely not. I am tempted to fuck her once, so I can deal with that stupid behaviour for an evening and would punish her in the bedroom for it - especially since it has been a while that I had an 8+ (on the physical scale).

insignia Wrote:

Because she's crazy, she'll fuck your brains out.

I will give it another try after a few days, because she definitely was attracted. Within the first minute of meeting her she told me that I look better than on my POF pictures. Later in the evening again, you look (much) better than on your pictures. You should get new ones. Also, she complimented me separately on my ring, shirt, watch, and boots.

[Smoker]

Chase, what country are you in?

I'm in Japan and I never heard the phrase "catch the last train" when I was back home, so I'm wondering if you're in Japan too?

Two things. One, if you're in Japan, I'm guessing you haven't been here long. A girl that goes back to your place with you can't call rape. Nothing is 100%, but basically, girls that cry date-rape when they go back to the guy's place with him are not generally trusted. "Why the hell did you go there with him if you weren't ready to bang?" is the typical response by police, or so I hear. Obviously you wouldn't want to have those types of accusations leveled at you to begin with, but the likelihood is slim. That's IF you're in Japan, even...

Second, I'm a bit confused. You said that you had her at your place and you moved to the bed. Uh... She missed her last train and it wasn't because you were fucking her? She was on your bed? I'm curious to know how you get a girl to miss her train and you're making out on your bed but don't get to banging? Not hatin'. Just don't understand.

IMO, girls don't 'miss' their last trains. If they 'miss' it, it's part of their plan. It allows them to deny the decision. ASD. So I'm wondering if anything happened that might have changed her mood while you guys were on the bed? It's just odd that she'd go that far and then freak out. Got more details?

[Smoker]

As far as being pushy, if she's on my bed, there's no such thing. Pants are coming off. Simple as that. Here in Japan, it's not even a question. They don't put up real resistance once they go that far. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't be there. If I were back home, on the other hand, and on my bed making out and the girl said "NO" then I guess I'd chill. That's a whole other kettle of fish there.

[theIVth]

I dont see anything you did wrong. Sounds like she is just a bitch. Actually, getting into an argument with her along the lines of "well shit, you have a muthafucking watch too...you knew what time it was!" probably would have turned her on and made her back down. I think you may have shot yourself in the foot with "I dont know....I just like you". She seems like the type of chick thats very touchy and irritable which is sometimes the exact type that responds better to people that get with them when it comes to arguing and shit slinging. She lost respect when you started professing about how much you like her.

id call her one more time and see if she wants to kick it again. If not, id move on.

[Caligula]

(11-14-2011 02:32 PM)theIVth Wrote:  

I dont see anything you did wrong. Sounds like she is just a bitch. Actually, getting into an argument with her along the lines of "well shit, you have a muthafucking watch too...you knew what time it was!" probably would have turned her on and made her back down. I think you may have shot yourself in the foot with "I dont know....I just like you". She seems like the type of chick thats very touchy and irritable which is sometimes the exact type that responds better to people that get with them when it comes to arguing and shit slinging. She lost respect when you started professing about how much you like her.

id call her one more time and see if she wants to kick it again. If not, id move on.

Good point. Sometimes you just need to regulate.

[Chase]

(11-14-2011 01:12 PM)Smoker Wrote:  

Chase, what country are you in?
Second, I'm a bit confused. You said that you had her at your place and you moved to the bed. Uh... She missed her last train and it wasn't because you were fucking her? She was on your bed? I'm curious to know how you get a girl to miss her train and you're making out on your bed but don't get to banging? Not hatin'. Just don't understand.

Girl is Chinese, I am German. When making out on the couch, I simply lifted her up and carried her over to the bed. Nothing in particular happened, she was just checking the time then.
[/quote]

Quote:

Sometimes you just need to regulate.

Exactly. No big deal. In this case, I have the feeling it will work out just fine next time.

[Chase]

Called the girl, everything is fine, will meet her next week and keep you posted.