[MikeCF]

Serious question, since I can't understand something.

Why?

Why do you argue on behalf of the 1%?

Some of us have day jobs where the 1% pay us well. Most of us, knowing how the 1% really operate (they are sociopaths and parasites, and their word means nothing), would never agitate - for free - on their behalf.

So why do you do it?

I'm not trolling. I'd really like to hear an explanation.

What do you get out of it? Do you feel good about yourself? Or does it boost your self esteem? Or is it just the amusement of trolling?

[kerouac]

I imagine them to be "grown up" versions of the doofuses who wouldn't mind taking it up the bum from the popular high school QB

They imagine that one day, if they suck up enough, that they will be rewarded... by getting it up the bum

They wake up, going through their high school year book, flipping to that marvelous page featuring the high school football players, and they imagine Johnny Football Hero throwing them down on all fours

and giving it to them up the bum

but they don't realize that Johnny Football Hero doesn't care about them. Johnny Football Hero has more important things on his mind.

[MikeCF]

Well, here is what I call them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

But I'm open to reason and curious.

What's their motivation?

[Brian]

(10-26-2011 05:33 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Serious question, since I can't understand something.

Why?

Why do you argue on behalf of the 1%?

Some of us have day jobs where the 1% pay us well. Most of us, knowing how the 1% really operate (they are sociopaths and parasites, and their word means nothing), would never agitate - for free - on their behalf.

So why do you do it?

I'm not trolling. I'd really like to hear an explanation.

What do you get out of it? Do you feel good about yourself? Or does it boost your self esteem? Or is it just the amusement of trolling?

of course they are sociopaths and parasites. i negotiate and fight with them all the time. they are sleazy, dirty, ruthless businessmen. but that is what they do and they do it well. that is why they have money. do you hate on JayZ because he is successful? do you hate on Michael Jordan or Muhammad Ali because they were successful? do you hate on the player who gets laid by a different girl every weekend? it sounds like you are very mediocre and envy those who have success and feel like it was just given to them when in reality that success was earned. getting to that level is hard and staying there is hard because everyone wants to take what you have. heck, you will rail about the 1% but if Goldman Sachs called you'd be on the next train to NYC.

[MikeCF]

(10-26-2011 05:57 PM)Brian Wrote:  

of course they are sociopaths and parasites. i negotiate and fight with them all the time. they are sleazy, dirty, ruthless businessmen. but that is what they do and they do it well. that is why they have money. do you hate on JayZ because he is successful? do you hate on Michael Jordan or Muhammad Ali because they were successful? do you hate on the player who gets laid by a different girl every weekend? it sounds like you are very mediocre and envy those who have success and feel like it was just given to them when in reality that success was earned. getting to that level is hard and staying there is hard because everyone wants to take what you have. heck, you will rail about the 1% but if Goldman Sachs called you'd be on the next train to NYC.

You make a lot of assumptions about my net worth. Those aside:

What do you get out of arguing on behalf of policies that support the 1%?

What's your motivation.

[Aliblahba]

MikeCF, just curious. What percentage are you in?

[Brian]

(10-26-2011 06:06 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(10-26-2011 05:57 PM)Brian Wrote:  

of course they are sociopaths and parasites. i negotiate and fight with them all the time. they are sleazy, dirty, ruthless businessmen. but that is what they do and they do it well. that is why they have money. do you hate on JayZ because he is successful? do you hate on Michael Jordan or Muhammad Ali because they were successful? do you hate on the player who gets laid by a different girl every weekend? it sounds like you are very mediocre and envy those who have success and feel like it was just given to them when in reality that success was earned. getting to that level is hard and staying there is hard because everyone wants to take what you have. heck, you will rail about the 1% but if Goldman Sachs called you'd be on the next train to NYC.

You make a lot of assumptions about my net worth. Those aside:

What do you get out of arguing on behalf of policies that support the 1%?

What's your motivation.

i'm not arguing on behalf of policies that support them. i'm pointing out the fact that most of the protesters would be much more effectively using their time if instead of wandering around Wall St demonizing anyone who works in finance they went after the enablers in the government. and when a country starts getting to the point where it starts demonizing the successful people its not a good place. i do think most of the people who are openly criticizing them are doing so out of jealousy and envy. everyone 'wants' to be successful but do you really really want it? do you want the 18 hour days 6 days a week? there is nothing wrong with not wanting that. but then dont hate on people who put in the work and got there, whether its a banker, hedge funder, rapper, lawyer, or whatever other industry that person busted his/her ass in to become successful.

[kerouac]

(10-26-2011 06:17 PM)Brian Wrote:  

i'm not arguing on behalf of policies that support them. i'm pointing out the fact that most of the protesters would be much more effectively using their time...

There are muuuuch more people in the 99% than those protestors you see camping out in New York. The only people getting media attention are the dirty hippies that are easy to make fun of. So if you want to hate on them, please continue, but realize that they don't represent the majority.

And I'm guessing MikeCF is pointing his question at the dumb idiots who listen to Limbaugh who make under 100K per year who support the policies that are beneficial only to the top 1%.

[Brian]

let me ask you a question - if the top 1%, whatever that particular cutoff may entail, all decided to close their businesses and fire/layoff all their employees what would happen to the economy?

[thegmanifesto]

(10-26-2011 06:26 PM)Brian Wrote:  

let me ask you a question - if the top 1%, whatever that particular cutoff may entail, all decided to close their businesses and fire/layoff all their employees what would happen to the economy?

So you are protecting your master.

I knew it.

[Basil Ransom]

(10-26-2011 06:17 PM)Brian Wrote:  

dont hate on people who put in the work and got there, whether its a banker, hedge funder, rapper, lawyer, or whatever other industry that person busted his/her ass in to become successful.

Did you grow up poor? Are you really into finance? You think that success alone is praiseworthy, regardless of how it was gotten.

Maybe you found a brilliant way to scheme the system and get rich. Maybe it even required you had to work hard. You're still not creating any value for anyone. You're just enriching yourself at the expense of others.

To the extent that a man makes his riches this way, there's nothing respectable about it. When someone enriches himself without creating value, he's a parasite. You are the sap for respecting them.

And it's not them you're worshiping, it's their money. Who do you respect more, a talented carpenter or a wealthy carpenter?

I agree with going after enablers.

[Aliblahba]

You're wasting your breath brian. Mike is trying to get you to lay down now and admit defeat. If he were a top earner his tune would change. Some people like to find any excuse to their failures and wait for the gubmint to give them a handout "cuz life ain't fair". It's a socialist mindset. Why work hard when there's no incentive not to?

I grew working my ass off. It started helping my father laying rock and block at the age of 13 during the summers. I worked my ass off then, and still do. I'm in the top of the top 5%. My tax bracket paid 58.66 of all income taxes. Doesn't seem fair does it? Seem I'm pulling the someone's weight. Do you hear me bitching? No. It gives me more incentive to earn more to offset what I'm having to pay out.

[MikeCF]

(10-26-2011 06:26 PM)Brian Wrote:  

let me ask you a question - if the top 1%, whatever that particular cutoff may entail, all decided to close their businesses and fire/layoff all their employees what would happen to the economy?

Now we're getting somewhere.

You, like others, think that without the top 1%, the world would end.

Most small business owners are not in the top 1%.

Most entrepreneurs are not in the top 1%.

Let the top 1% "go Galt." Not only would the world not end, but the world would improve.

[Brian]

(10-26-2011 06:31 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(10-26-2011 06:26 PM)Brian Wrote:  

let me ask you a question - if the top 1%, whatever that particular cutoff may entail, all decided to close their businesses and fire/layoff all their employees what would happen to the economy?

So you are protecting your master.

I knew it.

i know how much you want that to be the case, but unfortunately its not. wishful thinking can only get you so far.

[Tuthmosis]

(10-26-2011 06:31 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

So you are protecting your master.

I knew it.

That, and to quote Frederick Douglass, on dumb-ass slaves who worshipped, bragged about, and fought over their masters:

"They [seem] to think that the greatness of their masters [is] transferable to themselves."

[MikeCF]

(10-26-2011 06:32 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

You're wasting your breath brian. Mike is trying to get you to lay down now and admit defeat. If he were a top earner his tune would change. Some people like to find any excuse to their failures and wait for the gubmint to give them a handout "cuz life ain't fair". It's a socialist mindset. Why work hard when there's no incentive not to?

I grew working my ass off. It started helping my father laying rock and block at the age of 13 during the summers. I worked my ass off then, and still do. I'm in the top of the top 5%. My tax bracket paid 58.66 of all income taxes. Doesn't seem fair does it? Seem I'm pulling the someone's weight. Do you hear me bitching? No. It gives me more incentive to earn more to offset what I'm having to pay out.

Cool story, bro.

If you're paying so much in taxes, then you're an EMPLOYEE.

You should go into business for yourself.

Get those write-offs.

[Brian]

(10-26-2011 06:32 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(10-26-2011 06:26 PM)Brian Wrote:  

let me ask you a question - if the top 1%, whatever that particular cutoff may entail, all decided to close their businesses and fire/layoff all their employees what would happen to the economy?

Now we're getting somewhere.

You, like others, think that without the top 1%, the world would end.

Most small business owners are not in the top 1%.

Most entrepreneurs are not in the top 1%.

Let the top 1% "go Galt." Not only would the world not end, but the world would improve.

a pretty good percentage of the mystical 1% are business owners and entrepreneurs. maybe not small business owners, but they were probably small at one point. they busted their ass, took risk, and grew. it rarely happens overnight, and can often take decades. no guarantee, no safety net, and lots of employees depending on them. we covered this in another thread but its worth mentioning again - is Michael Moore a 1%er?

http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-m...rs-2011-10

[el mechanico]

(10-26-2011 06:40 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(10-26-2011 06:32 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

You're wasting your breath brian. Mike is trying to get you to lay down now and admit defeat. If he were a top earner his tune would change. Some people like to find any excuse to their failures and wait for the gubmint to give them a handout "cuz life ain't fair". It's a socialist mindset. Why work hard when there's no incentive not to?

I grew working my ass off. It started helping my father laying rock and block at the age of 13 during the summers. I worked my ass off then, and still do. I'm in the top of the top 5%. My tax bracket paid 58.66 of all income taxes. Doesn't seem fair does it? Seem I'm pulling the someone's weight. Do you hear me bitching? No. It gives me more incentive to earn more to offset what I'm having to pay out.

Cool story, bro.

If you're paying so much in taxes, then you're an EMPLOYEE.

You should go into business for yourself.

Get those write-offs.

Ali you could jump on board at my storage lot it shows -1700 a month. lol but true.

[MikeCF]

(10-26-2011 06:45 PM)Brian Wrote:  

a pretty good percentage of the mystical 1% are business owners and entrepreneurs. maybe not small business owners, but they were probably small at one point. they busted their ass, took risk, and grew. it rarely happens overnight, and can often take decades. no guarantee, no safety net, and lots of employees depending on them. we covered this in another thread but its worth mentioning again - is Michael Moore a 1%er?

http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-m...rs-2011-10

Have you ever had a tax law class?

To be top 1%, you need an AGI of over $350,000.

AGI is cash money left out after deductions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjusted_gross_income

Keep in mind that substantial (about 50K) of that wash can to into an IRA

https://www.fidelity.com/retirement/smal...loyed-401k

Very few small business owners are taking $350,000 after the wash.


The 1% for the most part consists of parasites, Wall Street traders, etc.

[Tuthmosis]

(10-26-2011 06:45 PM)Brian Wrote:  

a pretty good percentage of the mystical 1% are business owners and entrepreneurs. maybe not small business owners, but they were probably small at one point. they busted their ass, took risk, and grew. it rarely happens overnight, and can often take decades. no guarantee, no safety net, and lots of employees depending on them. we covered this in another thread but its worth mentioning again - is Michael Moore a 1%er?

http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-m...rs-2011-10

I'm starting to think another quote that might be pertinent for this discussion:

"You can't reason a man out of a position he hasn't reasoned himself into."

It's very difficult to fight straight-up ignorance with knowledge. Anyone can just manufacture more ignorance. That shit is endless. Who cares about Michael Moore?

[Chad Daring]

a pretty good percentage of the mystical 1% are business owners and

Quote:

entrepreneurs. maybe not small business owners, but they were probably small at one point. they busted their ass, took risk, and grew. it rarely happens overnight, and can often take decades. no guarantee, no safety net, and lots of employees depending on them. we covered this in another thread but its worth mentioning again - is Michael Moore a 1%er?

I work hard, I have since I was 15 working for my fathers construction company.

I still work hard, and I've got dick all to show for it. I pay out the ass for everything and barely squeak by with more then 100-200 dollars left at the end of each month.

You know what separates me from the 1%, its now how we got here or what we have. Its what we do with what we have

I've got not much of anything and I still share it with my fellow man, the 1% have it all and share none of it. Its about accountability and decency, not money.

[Brian]

(10-26-2011 06:50 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(10-26-2011 06:45 PM)Brian Wrote:  

a pretty good percentage of the mystical 1% are business owners and entrepreneurs. maybe not small business owners, but they were probably small at one point. they busted their ass, took risk, and grew. it rarely happens overnight, and can often take decades. no guarantee, no safety net, and lots of employees depending on them. we covered this in another thread but its worth mentioning again - is Michael Moore a 1%er?

http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-m...rs-2011-10

Have you ever had a tax law class?

To be top 1%, you need an AGI of over $350,000.

AGI is cash money left out after deductions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjusted_gross_income

Very few small business owners are taking $350,000 after the wash.

The 1% for the most part consists of parasites, Wall Street traders, etc.

its becoming more and more obvious - you just hate Wall Streeters because you couldnt get admitted to their club. Now they pay you to write their propaganda and you hate your bosses.

Its been fun, time to go play. See you kiddies later.

[Aliblahba]

(10-26-2011 06:40 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(10-26-2011 06:32 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

You're wasting your breath brian. Mike is trying to get you to lay down now and admit defeat. If he were a top earner his tune would change. Some people like to find any excuse to their failures and wait for the gubmint to give them a handout "cuz life ain't fair". It's a socialist mindset. Why work hard when there's no incentive not to?

I grew working my ass off. It started helping my father laying rock and block at the age of 13 during the summers. I worked my ass off then, and still do. I'm in the top of the top 5%. My tax bracket paid 58.66 of all income taxes. Doesn't seem fair does it? Seem I'm pulling the someone's weight. Do you hear me bitching? No. It gives me more incentive to earn more to offset what I'm having to pay out.

Cool story, bro.

If you're paying so much in taxes, then you're an EMPLOYEE.

You should go into business for yourself.

Get those write-offs.

What's wrong with being an employee? You still didn't answer my question. Are you resistant to debating with someone that grew up in a trailer park but still made something of themselves? Maybe my example still gives hope to that sad, trodden, 99%? God forbid if that's the case.

You guys know I pay about $45 per month for insurance, including a $500K life insurance policy, plus up vision and dental, and 100% international coverage?

I'm not bragging. I'm saying those jobs are still out there. I don't have a degree. I'm in a worker bee job. Not corporate.

For you young cats out there. Don't listen to career advice for dudes that haven't made it. Birds of a feather.

[MVolt]

(10-26-2011 06:17 PM)Brian Wrote:  

(10-26-2011 06:06 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(10-26-2011 05:57 PM)Brian Wrote:  

of course they are sociopaths and parasites. i negotiate and fight with them all the time. they are sleazy, dirty, ruthless businessmen. but that is what they do and they do it well. that is why they have money. do you hate on JayZ because he is successful? do you hate on Michael Jordan or Muhammad Ali because they were successful? do you hate on the player who gets laid by a different girl every weekend? it sounds like you are very mediocre and envy those who have success and feel like it was just given to them when in reality that success was earned. getting to that level is hard and staying there is hard because everyone wants to take what you have. heck, you will rail about the 1% but if Goldman Sachs called you'd be on the next train to NYC.

You make a lot of assumptions about my net worth. Those aside:

What do you get out of arguing on behalf of policies that support the 1%?

What's your motivation.

i do think most of the people who are openly criticizing them are doing so out of jealousy and envy. everyone 'wants' to be successful but do you really really want it? do you want the 18 hour days 6 days a week? there is nothing wrong with not wanting that. but then dont hate on people who put in the work and got there, whether its a banker, hedge funder, rapper, lawyer, or whatever other industry that person busted his/her ass in to become successful.

Matt Taibbi demolished this argument here.

Quote:

When you take into consideration all the theft and fraud and market manipulation and other evil shit Wall Street bankers have been guilty of in the last ten-fifteen years, you have to have balls like church bells to trot out a propaganda line that says the protesters are just jealous of their hard-earned money.

Think about it: there have always been rich and poor people in America, so if this is about jealousy, why the protests now? The idea that masses of people suddenly discovered a deep-seated animus/envy toward the rich – after keeping it strategically hidden for decades – is crazy.

Where was all that class hatred in the Reagan years, when openly dumping on the poor became fashionable? Where was it in the last two decades, when unions disappeared and CEO pay relative to median incomes started to triple and quadruple?

The answer is, it was never there. If anything, just the opposite has been true. Americans for the most part love the rich, even the obnoxious rich. And in recent years, the harder things got, the more we've obsessed over the wealth dream. As unemployment skyrocketed, people tuned in in droves to gawk at Evrémonde-heiresses like Paris Hilton, or watch bullies like Donald Trump fire people on TV.

Moreover, the worse the economy got, the more being a millionaire or a billionaire somehow became a qualification for high office, as people flocked to voting booths to support politicians with names like Bloomberg and Rockefeller and Corzine, names that to voters symbolized success and expertise at a time when few people seemed to have answers. At last count, there were 245 millionaires in congress, including 66 in the Senate.

And we hate the rich? Come on. Success is the national religion, and almost everyone is a believer. Americans love winners. But that's just the problem. These guys on Wall Street are not winning – they're cheating. And as much as we love the self-made success story, we hate the cheater that much more.

In this country, we cheer for people who hit their own home runs – not shortcut-chasing juicers like Bonds and McGwire, Blankfein and Dimon.

That's why it's so obnoxious when people say the protesters are just sore losers who are jealous of these smart guys in suits who beat them at the game of life. This isn't disappointment at having lost. It's anger because those other guys didn't really win. And people now want the score overturned.

All weekend I was thinking about this “jealousy” question, and I just kept coming back to all the different ways the game is rigged. People aren't jealous and they don’t want privileges. They just want a level playing field, and they want Wall Street to give up its cheat codes.

Make sure you read the article I linked all the way to the end. The last paragraph drives the point home, and will hopefully end this silly "protesters are jealous of the rich" nonsense.

[Gmac]

Quote:

The 1% for the most part consists of parasites, Wall Street traders, etc.

Wrong.