[Gmac]

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

In other words, there are plenty of ways to live comfortably.

CEO: For all you know, he's on his phone at the beach. Still, point taken.

[The_CEO]

(10-26-2011 09:01 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

CEO: For all you know, he's on his phone at the beach. Still, point taken.

Your right. And I'd be more jealous.

[MVolt]

(10-26-2011 06:32 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Don't feed the trolls. If Gmanifesto was a real person he would meet me in Socal. I'm in Oceanside right now and would love to meet him. But he won't. I've talked to amistod and caguila, and met Emech. Some of us are real.

Gmanifesto talks big game but he's against the 1%. So why would a guy that could afford custom suits fight against the man? Sounds fucked up as a womans checkbook.

You talk shit but don't want to disclose what you do or make.

Why would anyone want to disclose how much they make or what they do for a living over the Internet? To legitimize their Internet-cred? Come on, bro. Do you seriously think that if someone doesn't disclose personal/professional information, or meet up with you in real life, that they're just a fictional character? I know we live in the age of Facebook, where people freely submit personal information for all to see, but some of us enjoy our privacy and anonymity.

On that token, do you think Roosh or the other prominent members on this board are fake? You don't know how much they make, and I doubt you've met Roosh or most of the other long-time posters here. Do you think they're fake?

I hope you're not this nosy in real life.

[bface]

I can't stand people with victim mentalities...

Where you are in life is the result of a series of choices you made in the past. Of course some randomness is always involved, that's why you go for the path where probabilities are in your favor...

[thekiller]

(10-26-2011 05:33 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Serious question, since I can't understand something.

Why?

Why do you argue on behalf of the 1%?

Some of us have day jobs where the 1% pay us well. Most of us, knowing how the 1% really operate (they are sociopaths and parasites, and their word means nothing), would never agitate - for free - on their behalf.

So why do you do it?

I'm not trolling. I'd really like to hear an explanation.

What do you get out of it? Do you feel good about yourself? Or does it boost your self esteem? Or is it just the amusement of trolling?

So your premise is if someone doesn't support a bunch of mostly lily-white, beta, whiny, entitled hipsters and their cohorts of 60s throwbacks and public sector union goons on their quest for taxpayer dollars, we MUST support Wall Street fatcats that gave more money to Obama than anyone else?
Fuck the supposed 99% and the 1%, I'm with the 53% who pay taxes that gets screwed by both groups.

[Hooligan Harry]

(10-26-2011 06:40 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Cool story, bro.

If you're paying so much in taxes, then you're an EMPLOYEE.

You should go into business for yourself.

Get those write-offs.

You take a lot for granted and thats very short sighted.

I wish you could just write everything off. It does not work that way. The more you earn the more you get taxed, and the only way to avoid tax is to spend. Its the same in most western economies these days and you often incur double and triple taxation as a business owner. Most people dont understand that.

Ill give you some examples.

As a business, you pay taxes. Taxation law changes from country to country, but most companies are paying things like payroll taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes, taxes on profit, etc. That taxation is a taxation on the owners of the business at the end of the day. It is a personal tax and I challenge anyone to say otherwise. If something I own pays tax, then I am paying that tax.

Now if you are an owner, you may draw a salary (you pay the same rate of tax everyone else would based on the bracket you are in) and you also pay taxes on the dividends you draw in some countries.

So you are paying income tax for the bracket that you are in, just like your employees. Whose taxes you also happen to be paying as a result of the job you gave them. People work off what they clear, not what they get paid before taxes. Your income tax is a burden your employer wears too because the cost of your labour has to increase to offset that personal loss you take in taxation.

So you get creative and you establish trusts and separate companies. Instead of drawing salaries and taking your dividends, you funnel everything though trusts. This is where everyone thinks that they get fucked by the rich, but the reality of the situation is thatthe vast majority of what goes into a trust is actually reinvested into the greater economy, its not consumed.

You buy property, shares, invest in private equity, donate to charities, fund research, purchase assets, etc (yes, luxury toys too within reason). If you dont reinvest that money and accrue a paper loss, you will get taxed to fuck and back.

If you had to declare everything you earn as part of your primary income the taxes would kill you. Could you imagine having to pay 30%-50% of a couple of million every year just in taxes? What would happen to investment in commercial property, retail, private equity and venture capital, the luxury goods market, research, charities, private schools, etc?

You DO benefit from what the 1% earns. They cant spend that money and to avoid heavy taxation they have to reinvest it. That reinvestment provides the liquidity and capital any economy needs for growth.

Still, the taxman does not allow free reign and it needs to always be run like legit business's and investments. As soon as you draw for personal use you get taxed. Sure, you can work the system, but most of the time working the system leads to reinvestment in the economy.

People think that because they spend everything they earn on themselves, the rich do the same thing. The rich are trying to, but its simply not possible.

People do not appreciate the level of indirect taxation the wealthy incur.

[Aliblahba]

(10-26-2011 08:35 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(10-26-2011 08:30 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

(10-26-2011 08:08 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

Now you're just trolling.

Don't feed the trolls. If Gmanifesto was a real person he would meet me in Socal. I'm in Oceanside right now and would love to meet him. But he won't. I've talked to amistod and caguila, and met Emech. Some of us are real.

Gmanifesto talks big game but he's against the 1%. So why would a guy that could afford custom suits fight against the man? Sounds fucked up as a womans checkbook.

Come on guy, you wear a wetsuit out at night.

And you are hypersensitive, and have zero sense of humor.

Please excuse me for not wanting to "roll" with you.

Your reasoning is hilarious, though.

There are tons of people with money that don't like the current system.

If you read anything I have written, you would know that I have been against that system my whole life.

I will ask you the same question I asked gmac, look above.

Which one is it for you?

You can't roll with me because you don't exist.

[Smitty]

(10-26-2011 06:57 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

a pretty good percentage of the mystical 1% are business owners and

Quote:

entrepreneurs. maybe not small business owners, but they were probably small at one point. they busted their ass, took risk, and grew. it rarely happens overnight, and can often take decades. no guarantee, no safety net, and lots of employees depending on them. we covered this in another thread but its worth mentioning again - is Michael Moore a 1%er?

I work hard, I have since I was 15 working for my fathers construction company.

I still work hard, and I've got dick all to show for it. I pay out the ass for everything and barely squeak by with more then 100-200 dollars left at the end of each month.

You know what separates me from the 1%, its now how we got here or what we have. Its what we do with what we have

I've got not much of anything and I still share it with my fellow man, the 1% have it all and share none of it. Its about accountability and decency, not money.

Chad, working hard is only part of the equation. It also takes brains, luck, and good associates to advance far in this country. I think you're a smart dude and you'll find your way and be successful.
But the reason you have dick to show for your hard work right now is because of the choices you made.

What's the basis for your statement of the 1% not sharing any of what they have? Americans, rich and poor, are the most giving in the world.

[Aliblahba]

(10-26-2011 08:40 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

(10-26-2011 08:30 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

(10-26-2011 08:08 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

Now you're just trolling.

Don't feed the trolls. If Gmanifesto was a real person he would meet me in Socal. I'm in Oceanside right now and would love to meet him. But he won't. I've talked to amistod and caguila, and met Emech. Some of us are real.

Gmanifesto talks big game but he's against the 1%. So why would a guy that could afford custom suits fight against the man? Sounds fucked up as a womans checkbook.

You should throw your computer in a dumpster and go to the beach.
If I was in Socal, that's what I'd do.

I've already been to the beach. It's cold and overcast. Why go? I spent the night chasing strippers, and spending money left over from getting over taxed.

[Smitty]

(10-26-2011 08:16 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

For the top 1% of the population, average inflation-adjusted household income grew by 275%. The rest of wealthiest fifth of the population, not including the top 1%, saw household income grow by 65% during that time, faster than the rest of the population, but "not nearly as fast as for the top 1%."

So what? The 1% got richer than the rest of the wealthiest fifth of the population. I don't understand what the big deal is. This is America, where anyone in any class is still free to open a business and try to find success.
The issue I have is when people - rich and poor - are living off the taxpayers dime.
Other than that, who gives a fuck if one group is getting richer faster than another.

[Smitty]

(10-26-2011 08:06 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I don't hang out with anyone personally that has your challenged (by your own admission) income level, yet stays on his knees and defends the his masters.

When you were in high school did you also defend the "popular kids" yet have them laugh at you behind your back?

G, I don't understand where all this talk of "masters" is coming from.

I work for someone. Does that make me a slave?
Even though I have zero debt and enough money to quit today and not work for years? I continue working because the money is great. Does that make me a slave loyal to my master?
I used to own a restaurant, but I still relied on my customers to stay in business. Am I slave to my customers? Or a master because I own my own business?

Just because someone sids with the wealthy does not make them a slave.

But bro, it does perplex me how you have so much wealth, yet so much enmity for the wealthy.

[Bad Hussar]

I haven't read the whole thread yet so am sorry if this has been discussed already.

IMHO I don't think people you characterize as being for the 1% are really for them at all. Certainly not for the thieves at Goldman Sachs and the like. They are more likely middle class people looking after their own long term interests. For example someone who opposes increasing taxes on "the rich", whoever they are, just doen't believe/trust the proponents that only the rich will have their tax increased. As you probably know when income tax itself was introduced it was touted as a tax on the rich. But now even someone earning minimum wage has to pay personal income tax - which any sane person should find disgraceful.

How does the saying go? First they came for the homeless, then they came for the blacks, then they came for the Jews.... (I'm paraphrasing, obviously, I can't remember the actual quote. But the idea is the same. The forces that "come for" the rich will never be satisfied with stopping there. They will continue down the line untill a revolution stops them.)

[Roosh]

Political discussions are futile, here or anywhere else.

In the Occupy Thread I like showing videos and graphics that are interesting to me, that I found while surfing. I know there are people who have a similar viewpoint that want to see those things. But trying to convince anyone they're right or wrong will just breed anger.

[ea303]

(10-27-2011 07:27 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Political discussions are futile, here or anywhere else.

In the Occupy Thread I like showing videos and graphics that are interesting to me, that I found while surfing. I know there are people who have a similar viewpoint that want to see those things. But trying to convince anyone they're right or wrong will just breed anger.

Where is that post of the day image. Also I enjoy your postings.

[The_CEO]

(10-27-2011 06:39 AM)Smitty Wrote:  

(10-26-2011 08:16 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

For the top 1% of the population, average inflation-adjusted household income grew by 275%. The rest of wealthiest fifth of the population, not including the top 1%, saw household income grow by 65% during that time, faster than the rest of the population, but "not nearly as fast as for the top 1%."

So what? The 1% got richer than the rest of the wealthiest fifth of the population. I don't understand what the big deal is. This is America, where anyone in any class is still free to open a business and try to find success.
The issue I have is when people - rich and poor - are living off the taxpayers dime.
Other than that, who gives a fuck if one group is getting richer faster than another.

Well, it's a big deal when that minority is playing by house rules, and at the expense of everyone else.
And it's not good for anyone's prosperity in the long run to have that kind of income disparity. There's no one left to buy the sh-t you want to sell.

[Gmac]

(10-27-2011 09:40 AM)The_CEO Wrote:  

(10-27-2011 06:39 AM)Smitty Wrote:  

(10-26-2011 08:16 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

For the top 1% of the population, average inflation-adjusted household income grew by 275%. The rest of wealthiest fifth of the population, not including the top 1%, saw household income grow by 65% during that time, faster than the rest of the population, but "not nearly as fast as for the top 1%."

So what? The 1% got richer than the rest of the wealthiest fifth of the population. I don't understand what the big deal is. This is America, where anyone in any class is still free to open a business and try to find success.
The issue I have is when people - rich and poor - are living off the taxpayers dime.
Other than that, who gives a fuck if one group is getting richer faster than another.

Well, it's a big deal when that minority is playing by house rules, and at the expense of everyone else.
And it's not good for anyone's prosperity in the long run to have that kind of income disparity. There's no one left to buy the sh-t you want to sell.

Nobody plays by the rules. That's life, unfair. The sooner people realize this the better off they'll be. I'm not saying I have all the answer, but you have to work with the hand you're dealt.

[Vicious]

The whole anger over the 1% is laughable because it really shows people lack of fundamental math and logical reasoning.
In the US for example the 1% would be anyone earning $250.000 and above. A lot of money, but hardly old-boys-club illuminati CEOs like the catchphrase would want you to believe.

[MikeCF]

(10-27-2011 07:27 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Political discussions are futile, here or anywhere else.

In the Occupy Thread I like showing videos and graphics that are interesting to me, that I found while surfing. I know there are people who have a similar viewpoint that want to see those things. But trying to convince anyone they're right or wrong will just breed anger.

Of the participants, you're right. It's the silent guys whose minds are being changed.

If we had had this discussion three years ago, most would be pro 1%. Sentiment is changing, thanks to debate.

[MikeCF]

Barry Ritholtz must be poor, right?

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/10/who...ho-is-not/

[MikeCF]

(10-27-2011 11:10 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

The whole anger over the 1% is laughable because it really shows people lack of fundamental math and logical reasoning.
In the US for example the 1% would be anyone earning $250.000 and above. A lot of money, but hardly old-boys-club illuminati CEOs like the catchphrase would want you to believe.

See, buddy, if you're going to be smug, at least get your facts right.

The top 1% is $380,354.

That's also AGI.

I don't expect you to understand the difference between income and AGI.

Still, the facts speak for themselves. You and other boot lickers don't even have your basic facts right.

You don't know what the income number is.

You don't know how AGI is calculated.

You don't know how much money is washed out before AGI is calculated.

For the guys with an open mind.

I could have over one million in income, while having an AGI of $380,000.

While your plebians pay for your car, my corporation leases one, that it allows me to use for business purposes. That's a tax write-off.

If I buy my own car, well, I can write off mileage - 52 cents per mile. My morning commute thus makes me a small profit.

Gold-plated health care plan? That's an write-off, too.

Also, I can put up to $50,000 in a retirement fund. Another tax write-off.

Etc.

So, sure, 380K is not a ton of money. Once you see how you arrive at that number, you realize what real money is involved.

[Chad Daring]

(10-27-2011 06:32 AM)Smitty Wrote:  

Chad, working hard is only part of the equation. It also takes brains, luck, and good associates to advance far in this country. I think you're a smart dude and you'll find your way and be successful.
This I dont doubt, I'm tenacious too and more and more (thanks to all you guys ) I'm finding myself taking risks, which are usually key to progress in life.
But the reason you have dick to show for your hard work right now is because of the choices you made.

This I call bullshit on. I'm 23, I've only legally been making choices for myself for 5 years, and lets be honest the first few years of "adulthood" you still dont make many choices.

This is one of my biggest sticking points in this whole view AGAINST the "99%". Most are young people (under the age of 30) who were pushed into the grinders by the generation that came before.

Yes, if I had gone to college for a more lucrative degree, or not gone to college at all I would probably be better off right now, but I didn't wakeup one morning as a teenager and go "gee I bet going to culinary school will be awesome!" I was harassed talked into doing so by EVERY ADULT EVER that I knew at the time. All of them told me how good of an idea culinary school was. I was a CHILD I wasn't responsible enough to buy beer, yet I'm supposed to be responsible for making a decisions that impacts THE REST OF MY LIFE?

What's the basis for your statement of the 1% not sharing any of what they have? Americans, rich and poor, are the most giving in the world.

I base it on the face that we have celebrities and athletes who make MILLIONS and complain about not making enough money. I base it on my personal experience doing pest control in a very wealthy area (multi-million dollar homes) of Maryland where I was yelled at by an old codger in silk pajamas, walking out of a few million dollar house, with a Beamer in the driveway. He yelled at me FOR DOING MY JOB I wasn't panhandling and begging for money, I was trying to work for a living.

I base it off the fact that my dad is one of the most giving people I know, he makes less then 100k a year, and he's one of the many small business owners being fucked by the system right now. And he's not giving toward me, but towards all people. He's put many roofs on houses FOR FREE because the owners were unable to pay (usually old women who's husband had died)

I tell everyone how he put a roof on a house for a pan of brownies.

He's bought cars and tools for guys so they could work for him. He didn't make them pay it back or sign a contract, he took it on faith to give his hard earned money up, so that another man could have a job.

[Vicious]

(10-27-2011 02:20 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(10-27-2011 11:10 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

The whole anger over the 1% is laughable because it really shows people lack of fundamental math and logical reasoning.
In the US for example the 1% would be anyone earning $250.000 and above. A lot of money, but hardly old-boys-club illuminati CEOs like the catchphrase would want you to believe.

See, buddy, if you're going to be smug, at least get your facts right.

The top 1% is $380,354.

That's also AGI.

I don't expect you to understand the difference between income and AGI.

Still, the facts speak for themselves. You and other boot lickers don't even have your basic facts right.

You don't know what the income number is.

You don't know how AGI is calculated.

You don't know how much money is washed out before AGI is calculated.

You're hilarious, I haven't even taken a stance in this yet you're immediately ultra defensive and full of assumptions. My only point was to show how "1%" is just a catchphrase. Make it the 1 percentile and we would be talking, until then...

[Yams]

If there is anything that can make a grown ass man sound like a whiny woman its Politics. No logic just all emotion.

If you feel that your life is the result of other people dicking you in the ass then you are indeed giving up a lot of your power to those people. Capitalism, socialism , communism, hunters & gatherers...none of these systems will give you the Utopia that you hopelessly believe in because life will inherently suck sometimes.

[PDX]

If you're not in the top 90% of incomes, you can expect to take home less money every year.

Go ahead, argue why you're in favor of that.

Please.

[babelfish669]

Who is better, the 99% or 1%? Coke or Pepsi? Mac or Windows? Come on guys, you aren't dummies, is the real problem that invisible?

I wish everyone would stop arguing about if rich or poor people are more evil, and instead unite against the one thing they do agree on: no financial bailouts with government money. All liberals & socialists agree on this, all conservatives & neo-fascists agree on it. Why the fuck did everyone they elect ignore them? Its real easy to keep the rich in check when there companies can go from billions to zero overnight. Since winning a democratic election requires you to divide your constituency, this isn't happening, and the problem won't be solved.