[MyFabolousLife]

I have been in a relationship for coming up on six years with my girlfriend and she is now pushing me very hard to get married and have kids.

Background:
I am in my early 30s, Caucasian, have no kids, never been married and have a decent corporate gig. My girlfriend is now 30 and we have been living together for almost three years. I know there is no such thing as a true NAWALT but given the toxic dating environment of the West (especially United States – California) she is the closest thing I have ever dated that resembles a NAWALT (I have dated quite a few women of various backgrounds). She has some very quality attributes that I rarely come across in many other women in the West (probably because she is not from the West!). I know that if we break up I will probably never find a girl with these attributes in the United States again. I have dated many other women (mostly white western women) and they all exhibited the typical AWALT red flag attributes that are discussed at length on this site.
I feel somewhat guilty because this girl basically gave me her youth (she was 24 when we started dating) and I know that having her own family is important to her. But when she leaves town to visit family or I have to travel for work, I am relieved and enjoy the Peace-Quiet-Freedom away from her. I’ve always been a somewhat introverted person that prefers quiet and alone time and was never particularly fond of having children, whereas she is very extroverted and loves being around her large family.

Her attributes:
•She is a Filipina, born in the Philippines and moved with her family to the United States (California) at age 2. Now a United State citizen.
•She had a strong family upbringing, in a two-parent household where she was well disciplined and has a strong relationship with her father. Her parents never spoiled her and kept her in line growing up.
•She works hard, enjoys her job and makes good money (even more than me!) but also doesn’t let her career absorb her life and its somewhat flexible because she works in healthcare.
•Her extended family lives close to us and provides a strong support system for her and can help babysit if we were to have children.
•Almost nobody from her family is divorced. Her parents, aunts and uncles have been happily married for 30+ years and are still very much best friends. Her grandparents on both sides have been married for 50+ years. Divorce is actually illegal in the Philippines and the anti-divorce culture very much carries over among her family members that have immigrated to the United States.
•Family is everything to her as a Filipina and she views children as a “blessing”. Being boyfriend/girlfriend and co-habitating is not enough, she wants marriage and kids.
•She is annoyingly religious and superstitious.

There are definitely some significant cultural differences between her being a 1st generation Filipina and me being a white guy from the United States. Some of the attributes are good, but some are not so great (or even downright strange). Her big family basically does EVERYTHING together and they consider it a sign of being very rude if I don’t hang out with them when I am not working. This includes attending a lot of Filipino cultural events, festivals and sometimes even church (I am atheist and her family knows this). Filipina women also appear to be very controlling and downright bossy towards their boyfriends/husbands and monitor their every movement at all hours of the day. Anything you do that is against the family edict is viewed as a deep underlying sign of disrespect towards the family no matter how ridiculous or pointless the activity is. I feel like if I marry and have kids with her, these attributes will only become more apparent and nastier because she will have leverage over me and the “mask” will come off.

Closing thoughts:
Ultimately, I feel like even if you have one of the “good ones” being married and having kids still largely creates unnecessary stress and drama in a man’s life and that once I get married and start a family, my TIME will NEVER be mine again, and I will have to continuously listen to what her idea of what my life should be. All of my time, energy and resources will now be absorbed by her into starting our ‘family’. I will have to give up on my hopes, dreams, aspirations and be chained to her and her family and be stuck working a job I don’t particularly like and living in a high cost of living area I don’t particularly care for.

Truthfully, I have never had any desire to have children . I was the oldest child in my family and often babysat my siblings growing up and am the uncle to a 3-year-old that I watch frequently and have come to realize that I largely do not enjoy being around kids for any more than a small window of time. I do realize there are some intangibles associated with having and bonding with kids, but frankly I just don’t want to put the time, money and attention into raising kid(s) as I don’t see the small reward being worth all the effort. At least not at this stage of my life (early 30s). Especially because I will then be tied to my girlfriend forever! Regardless of whether the relationship works out. Also, not trying to come across as racist but given that she is another ethnicity then mine, the kids will probably not look like me which is difficult to fathom.

A part of me wants to just let her go and ditch my awful corporate job then go travel/work abroad and save for an early retirement and casually date multiple women but then a part of me wants to stick it out because I have a decent set up already and probably won’t find this setup again in the United States.


So, should I just continue the relationship until she breaks up with me? Should I just break up with her now? Move forward and propose? Also … Any experience dating/marrying women from SE Asia/Philippines?

[MaceTyrell]

Can you sign a prenup?

[CleanSlate]

Six years and you still haven’t married her?

[MyFabolousLife]

(05-16-2019 07:41 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

Six years and you still haven’t married her?

Crazy right? Honestly, the time has just flown by. I've been very apprehensive about getting married because I was building my career and was not sure if I ever wanted to have children. Also, many men in my family are divorced or have had terrible marriages (although, ironically my parents are still together).

Truthfully, not to sound like a MGTOW but i've never really seen the point in getting married from a man's perspective. What exactly does a guy get out of being married other then keeping the chick from bailing? Which she can just do anyway; even if your married.

[questor70]

IMHO, the only reason to marry is if you want kids. You can have an indefinitely long LTR instead if you prefer commitment. The ring just sets you up for divorce-rape.

[MyFabolousLife]

(05-16-2019 07:38 PM)MaceTyrell Wrote:  

Can you sign a prenup?

When I first asked if she would sign a pre-nup she was offended but after I explained to her what it was she agreed she would.

I looked into prenups in California and there actually an expensive pain in the ass to do because BOTH parties have to hire a lawyer.

I just don't really see the point in getting married. Period. From a man's perspective because we basically get nothing out of it and give up all control to the woman.

[RDF]

If you have no desire to have kids, you should not get married. What is the point then? She wants kids and it is selfish to marry her if you don’t.

[CleanSlate]

It sounds like you don’t know what you want.

Do you want kids and a family?

Do you want to be a lifelong bachelor?

You’ve had 4-6 years to decide, and I’m with te girl on this one. You need to decide and soon. Not to sound like a white knight, but she spent her most fertile years waiting for you to make a choice.

And you STILL haven’t made up your mind.

Also if you are warming up to the idea of kids, think about marriage from the kids’ point of view. It’s not just about you when kids are in the picture.

If you aren’t willing to take your chances and are resolute against marriage, then let her go now while she still has a 3-5 year window to find another guy and have kids.

[Jungle]

- She has a different ethnic constitution than yours. There's two components to this - the macro (society level) and the micro (immediate personal level). Regarding the micro - Your kids won't look like you. This has implications to their identity and changing your family line forever. The fact that you made a mention of this is evidence in itself that it doesn't seem natural to you. Listen to your instinct and your inner Logos. In 2019 this is normalised and "not a big deal" apparently, just like a lot of other things are normalised. Everyone has a different stance on this topic and blue-pillers get very triggered because it goes against their brainwashing. I've noticed it usually comes down to - the less red pilled a man is the more likely he is ok with race-mixing. Regarding the macro i.e. the bigger picture - spend the necessary time researching whose pushing for indigenous European genocide and the Kalergi Plan.

- You've clearly stated that you are not ready to have kids and live the settled life, so don't force yourself to do something that isn't in your heart. You might want a kid in five years time, men change as we acquire wisdom, the problem with that is the age gap - She's already 30 and past her prime fertility age now, which is partly your fault. And in 5 years time she will be 35-40 which is much more risky regarding health implications. You should be seeking a woman whose much younger i.e. 10 years younger. Sorry, it's biology.

- She may seem like a unicorn because you've been searching in the SMP of USSA which isn't conducive to finding wife-quality women. It's like trying to find water in the dessert. If you have that thirst for adventure and self-growth then go travel, have those life changing epiphanies and experiences, you'll find better quality baby-mamas in more traditional countries, and you might settle down when you're ready at 35-40.

[BasketBounce]

Yeah bro, she’s getting old and her family keeps asking her “When are you going to give me grandchildren?” And so that familial pressure is causing her to push for marriage and kids from you.

Are you going to let her set the frame of your relationship, though?

No doubt she’s a decent chick, but it doesn’t sound like you want to settle.

You could knock her up w/o getting married. Not saying you SHOULD do it, just saying it’s an option.

If I were you, I’d break up with her and go find another 24-year old chick.

You must always be willing to walk away from a chick when the time comes.

You’ve got a decision to make, homie!

[Virtual]

[quote='Jungle' pid='1980529' dateline='1558058488']
- She has a different ethnic constitution than yours. There's two components to this - the macro (society level) and the micro (immediate personal level). Regarding the micro - Your kids won't look like you. This has implications to their identity and changing your family line forever. The fact that you made a mention of this is evidence in itself that it doesn't seem natural to you. Listen to your instinct and your inner Logos. In 2019 this is normalised and "not a big deal" apparently, just like a lot of other things are normalised. Everyone has a different stance on this topic and blue-pillers get very triggered because it goes against their brainwashing. I've noticed it usually comes down to - the less red pilled a man is the more likely he is ok with race-mixing. Regarding the macro i.e. the bigger picture - spend the necessary time researching whose pushing for indigenous European genocide and the Kalergi Plan.

Where the f*ck did this response come from? He was talking about how different her culture's stance on family protocols were not "do I really want to mix races and dilute white pride". And to bring up Kalergi Plan from pre WWII?

[Graft]

She's probably the one if you want children, which you don't. Early 30's is not that young and if you don't have a clear vision of having children in the next few years then I'm not sure if you ever will.

The family might be annoying but that's a small price to pay for lifelong childcare. If you both make good money, then you have no idea how huge of a financial impact babysitter grandparents is. I'm talking about thousands of dollars per month.

Unfortunately children are the natural next step for a man in a monogamous LTR and you'll have to decide whether having them is worth it.

Don't stay with her and have children if your heart is not set on raising them.

[felix_vagabondo]

(05-16-2019 09:19 PM)BasketBounce Wrote:  

If I were you, I’d break up with her and go find another 24-year old chick.

You must always be willing to walk away from a chick when the time comes.

This.

If a girl is asking you for more committment, but you're not willing, you have to treat it like a shit-test.

That means: on some level she is trying to see if she can break you down mentally and emotionally--to get to you-- in order to test how much personal strength and confidence you can muster; she wants to know how much you can take, and whether you'll be a sturdy provider. She wants to see if you'll be weak and give in to her demands. Then she'll perceive less value in you as a mate, and she's more likely to cheat or leave you. Hence, there is only a down-side if you try to engage in such a discussion.

You have no choice but to hold to your own frame, own the fact that you don't want committment (yet, or ever), and assert your space by turning her assault into an opportunity to make fun of her... "Yeah, let's get married and have 50 kids right away! If we don't do it soon, we'll lose our chance forever and the human species might go extinct!"

Then, if she persists, either dump her or tell her straight-up that you're not ready for marriage and you don't want to hear another word about it.

It's not your fault that she comes from a backwards culture and her family is pressuring her to get married soon. That's her cross to bear. Maybe she should go back to her home country and start a social modernization movement.

I would never accept any sort of nagging, lobbying-type behavior on the part of a woman.

She must understand that her purpose in my life is nothing more and nothing less than to please me and help me to enjoy my time, never to come at me and generate additional stress that I don't want.

[GreenHills]

Oh man, difficult situation. Truth is you need to decide. Otherwise time is going to decide or she’s going to decide. At least figure out if she’s going to be your life partner.

And you know what, I’m tired of people, even here, who are always ready to blame the guy. She could’ve put an ultimatum for marriage, same for kids. She didn’t. She could’ve found a guy who can’t wait to have kids and dump you. She didn’t. But if you make up your mind you can do her a favor.

[Conquistador]

I can't help but reply to this thread.

There are so many factors against you.

1. You will not have alone time

2. You will not have the same relationship with her that you have now. Once kids come she will focus on their needs first, and there is the possibility she will ignore yours. There is also a small chance she will get post partum depression.

3. You will be subjecting yourself to a whole different culture. From your description this sounds worse than dealing with a white American woman and keeping up with the Joneses.

4. You don't like kids. And they will not be white.

5. You live in California, where prenups don't mean shit, and from what I hear there is lifetime alimony after ten years.

The only seemingly bad thing you did is steal her youth. And even then she should've got pregnant or gotten marriage out of you before three years.

The truth is that men will both regret getting married and having children or not doing these things. Re-read your op several times if you still have doubts. It sounds like an absolute dreadful situation. Maybe you never find a girl like this again, so be it. You'll still be better off after dodging this bullet.

[Jungle]

(05-16-2019 10:54 PM)Virtual Wrote:  

Where the f*ck did this response come from?

It comes from (see quote below)...

(05-16-2019 06:43 PM)MyFabolousLife Wrote:  

she is another ethnicity then mine, the kids will probably not look like me which is difficult to fathom.

And your response comes from (see quote below)...

(05-16-2019 09:01 PM)Jungle Wrote:  

blue-pillers get very triggered because it goes against their brainwashing

Oh and regarding (see quote below)...

(05-16-2019 10:54 PM)Virtual Wrote:  

Kalergi Plan from pre WWII?

^ New flash buddy, it's happening, today, right now, 2019.

Peace & love.

[cruzinV]

I wouldn't do it, focus on becoming financially independent and travel the world bro, imagine all the girls, experiences, and fun you'll miss out on. Instead you'll be sentenced to being the family provider for life, and you said theres literally no way out.

[GreenHills]

^ that’s how a lot of people roll and they are perfectly happy. Happier than if they had to book hotels in bangkok and bang randoms that can’t speak English.

This reminds me of a friend who was dating a filipina for 6 years. They broke up he got depressed, she found someone else who’s asian and had kids. He found a new asian girl and loves her and she’s a ambivalent about kids it seems. So life takes care. These are not the most dramatic outcomes. Relax and decide.

[MyFabolousLife]

(05-16-2019 11:36 PM)felix_vagabondo Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 09:19 PM)BasketBounce Wrote:  

If I were you, I’d break up with her and go find another 24-year old chick.

You must always be willing to walk away from a chick when the time comes.

If a girl is asking you for more commitment, but you're not willing, you have to treat it like a shit-test.

I would never accept any sort of nagging, lobbying-type behavior on the part of a woman.

She must understand that her purpose in my life is nothing more and nothing less than to please me and help me to enjoy my time, never to come at me and generate additional stress that I don't want.

First of all, I want to thank you all for taking the time to take part in such an engaging discussion. I honestly wasn't expecting such great feedback. You guys are literally saving a life here. I have thoroughly read through everyone's remarks and in the interest of time will respond to a few of them.

felix_vagabondo, I completely agree. This is just great advice period, for any guy when dealing with and interacting with women regarding the importance of holding frame and squashing nagging.

[MyFabolousLife]

(05-17-2019 08:23 AM)cruzinV Wrote:  

I wouldn't do it, focus on becoming financially independent and travel the world bro, imagine all the girls, experiences, and fun you'll miss out on. Instead you'll be sentenced to being the family provider for life, and you said theres literally no way out.

Your right, I would basically be living out my remaining years living someone else's dream simply out of guilt. It's her and her family's dream for us to get married and start a family. It's not mine ... Or at least not my dream at the present time. Things could definitely change in 3-7+ years, but if we stay together and they don't, she will have burned up so much time at that point; she would never be able to start a family with another guy.

[MyFabolousLife]

(05-17-2019 01:35 AM)Conquistador Wrote:  

I can't help but reply to this thread.

There are so many factors against you.

1. You will not have alone time

2. You will not have the same relationship with her that you have now. Once kids come she will focus on their needs first, and there is the possibility she will ignore yours. There is also a small chance she will get post partum depression.

3. You will be subjecting yourself to a whole different culture. From your description this sounds worse than dealing with a white American woman and keeping up with the Joneses.

4. You don't like kids. And they will not be white.

5. You live in California, where prenups don't mean shit, and from what I hear there is lifetime alimony after ten years.

The only seemingly bad thing you did is steal her youth. And even then she should've got pregnant or gotten marriage out of you before three years.

The truth is that men will both regret getting married and having children or not doing these things. Re-read your op several times if you still have doubts. It sounds like an absolute dreadful situation. Maybe you never find a girl like this again, so be it. You'll still be better off after dodging this bullet.

Preach. Great points, I will respond to each:

1. This is big for me. It's just a difference is personalities really. Neither is right or wrong. I'm quiet, introverted and reflective. She's outgoing and always likes being around and engaging with people 24/7.

2. This is one of the biggest things that scares me about starting a family, not only with this Filipina but with any girl. My needs and interests take a back seat and everything becomes about her and the children. Women also often pull a Jekyll and Hyde act and suddenly shift their personalities once they know they have you (i.e. the man) locked in. This behavior is impossible to screen for because no matter how well you think you know the girl and her family, your doing the analysis pre-marriage and pre-baby. Once you commit, your stuck and they know it and attitudes often shift and take a turn for the worst.

3. I don't want anyone to get the impression that I have anything against her culture or am bashing it, for all the Filipino forum members or forum members dating/married to Filipinas ... but yes, there culture is VERY different. Sometimes the byproduct being great attributes such as loyalty, caring, hardwork and honesty but sometimes it produces strange results that don't really align with western culture such as overly religious, weirdly superstitious, over focus on 'group thinking', being devoid of logic, over reliance on family and respecting elders even when their dumb/wrong etc.

4. Correct - there's two strikes. I frankly don't want to be responsible for children, then the fact that the kids won't even likely resemble my features and look nothing like me makes it even worse!

5. Your right, I have no interest in being married or having kids at this point in time; I would be doing it exclusively for her, which is not a great idea because then I will be in a situation that is almost impossible to get out of if I am not satisfied.

[felix_vagabondo]

(05-17-2019 08:23 AM)cruzinV Wrote:  

[...]you'll be sentenced to being the family provider for life, and you said theres literally no way out.

Not if you're willing to leave the girl.

I mean, you could always go underground.

Run.

Move to a different country that does not extradite.

Change your name.

Change your phone number.

Change up your facial hair.

But it could be a costly approach, depending on what you're giving up.

But in reality, all you have to do is join the swollen ranks of the dead-beat fathers.

You literally could just continue going about your daily life and stop doing shit for your wife and kids.

Bonus points if you can convince your wife that nothing is out of the ordinary.

[MyFabolousLife]

(05-17-2019 03:03 PM)felix_vagabondo Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 08:23 AM)cruzinV Wrote:  

[...]you'll be sentenced to being the family provider for life, and you said theres literally no way out.

Not if you're willing to leave the girl.

But in reality, all you have to do is join the swollen ranks of the dead-beat fathers.

You literally could just continue going about your daily life and stop doing shit for your wife and kids.

This would be a somewhat difficult pain to actually carry out in practice because of the draconian child support laws, plus I would feel a sense of guilt giving up on my kids and not helping them survive and thrive in the world. That's why I am bringing up the topic now, so I make a more informed decision and it hopefully never has to come to this nuclear option.

I definitely don't feel like I have a case of oneitis, I know I can get girls and when I've traveled abroad I have seen first hand how much more complicit and feminine women are. I just don't see the point of ending the relationship and going through the trouble of finding another girl to fill her place if the replacement isn't going to be much different. However, a valid reason to blow up the relationship is because the circumstances will be different. I will be older, more mature and financially independent and ultimately be making a more informed decision about wanting to have children.

[felix_vagabondo]

(05-17-2019 03:27 PM)MyFabolousLife Wrote:  

I just don't see the point of ending the relationship and going through the trouble of finding another girl to fill her place if the replacement isn't going to be much different.

I would rather die alone in the woods after a life-time of serial relationships and one-night stands...

than marry a woman I wasn't really in love with, who didn't make my life much better than I would have been alone.

Then, at least, I'm keeping open the possibility of one day landing in the lucky spot with a girl that met my desire for a deep, passionate connection with a unicorn 10 that turns the head of every man in the room when we walk in with her on my arm.

On the other hand, if you think your life would be better with the girl in it, then you have to fully let go of--sacrifice--whatever it is you want that you think you can't get without dumping the current girl.

[lunchmoney]

(05-16-2019 08:30 PM)RDF Wrote:  

If you have no desire to have kids, you should not get married. What is the point then? She wants kids and it is selfish to marry her if you don’t.

I think this sums it up. She is at a point (age 30) where she wants kids and it's understandable why. If you don't, that is a non-starter and you have to be ok with breaking it off. Better to do it now than making a post in a year about how she trapped you and got pregnant.