[kaotic]

Yep you heard right the SAT's will now include an "adversity score" to test results.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/us/sat-score.html

Quote:

The SAT, the college entrance test taken by about two million students a year, is adding an “adversity score” to the test results that is intended to help admissions officers account for factors like educational or socioeconomic disadvantage that may depress students’ scores, the College Board, the company that administers the test, said Thursday.

Colleges have long been concerned with scoring patterns on the SAT that seem unfavorable to certain socioeconomic groups: Higher scores have been found to correlate with students coming from a higher-income families and having better-educated parents.

David Coleman, chief executive of the College Board, has described a trial version of the tool, which has been field-tested by 50 colleges, in recent interviews. The plan to roll it out officially, to 150 schools this year and more broadly in 2020, was first reported by The Wall Street Journal.

The adversity score would be a number between 1 and 100, with an average student receiving a 50. It would be calculated using 15 factors, like the relative quality of the student’s high school and the crime rate and poverty level of the student’s home neighborhood. The score would not be reported to the student, only to college officials.

Admissions officers have struggled for years to find ways of gauging the hardships that students have had to overcome, and to predict which students will do well in college despite lower test scores.

“We’ve got to admit the truth, that wealth inequality has progressed to such a degree that it isn’t fair to look at test scores alone,” Mr. Coleman recently told The Associated Press. “You must look at them in context of the adversity students face.”

The new tool could potentially give colleges a way of doing that. But at the same time, it could invite a backlash from more affluent families and from students who do well on the test and worry that their adversity score will put them at a disadvantage.

The plan comes at a time when universities like Harvard, Yale, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the University of Texas at Austin face challenges to their affirmative action policies, either in the courts or through federal investigations. Many admissions officers are preparing for the possibility that a newly conservative Supreme Court could take a hard line on the use of race in admissions decisions. The College Board says race is not factored into adversity scores.

To address concerns about the fairness of standardized tests, a growing number of colleges have made it optional rather than mandatory for applicants to submit scores from the SAT or the other main standardized entrance test, the ACT.

The reputation of the SAT has been tarnished recently by the college admissions cheating scandal, which led to criminal charges against more than 50 people, including the actresses Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin. Prosecutors said the defendants took part in a fraudulent scheme to get children into coveted universities like the University of Southern California, Yale and Stanford.

[A student whose father paid $400,000 to get him into Georgetown is now suing the school for threatening to expel him.]

Federal prosecutors said the scheme, led by a charismatic admissions consultant, included tactics like obtaining phony certifications of disability so that students could take the SAT alone with extra time, paying off a test proctor to change test answers afterward, and in some cases paying a ringer to take the whole test for a student.

This basically explains my thoughts on this:

[url=https://twitter.com/Liz_Wheeler/status/1129022533989064705][/url]

Sooner or later the SAT's are going to be a joke and your degree is going to be diluted in value.

[Corinth Arkadin]

They don;t realize that this will usher in a new epoch of fraud and REEEEEEEEeeeeing.

What's to keep you from claiming American Indian descent? Or saying you're Moslem? Or multi-ethnic? Or claim you're black akin to Rachel Donezel or whatever the fuck her name is?

Are they gonna demand papers or blood tests or DNA tests to prove it so you can go to classes?

HONK HONK, motherfuckers.

Also, I think degrees are already worthless. College is basically a giant scam since the 1960's. All that fucking money so you get handing a piece of paper that says you're educated.

Go to Trade School.

Learn To Code.

Subscribe to PewDiePie.

[yankeetravels]

I get what people want to do with this because people from lower income neighborhoods dropping out of high school and not seeing college as a realistic milestone is a real issue. However, the logic in doing it like this opens up a whole new can of worms.

We can state some obvious things we will say are issues, but even back when I took the SAT test about a decade ago, I felt like college admission should not be largely decided on a test score. I don't think it is entirely now to be honest despite the shocking paranoia and importance some people put on it. I'll make the argument that "adversity" was already taken into consideration to fill token diversity spots and particularly college scholarships.

The problem is this system directly punishes people that actually worked hard for 17 years to build up a resume to get into a better school. More importantly, it really fails to address a system that is already broken with tuition costs and student loans. Say you let more people from lower income spots in. If you don't reduce tuition costs to adjust for this, doesn't that mean that the student debt problem only increases dramatically with more people in it that can't pay back their loans quickly? On the flip side of that coin, doesn't that mean that the arguable unbiased best candidates will now be more likely to have to enter that student debt system instead of bypassing it with their qualifications?

Seems a bit fishy to me....

One more hot take, this might get us one step closer towards a social credit society like in China or Black Mirror.

[Buck Wild]

I fully expect that broke white kids from West Virginia trailers parks will, on average, be given similar adversity scores to broke black kids from the hood.

There's nothing wrong with this as long as it is strictly race neutral. I'll adopt a wait-and-see approach.

[kaotic]

(05-16-2019 03:47 PM)Buck Wild Wrote:  

I fully expect that broke white kids from West Virginia trailers parks will, on average, be given similar adversity scores to broke black kids from the hood.

There's nothing wrong with this as long as it is strictly race neutral. I'll adopt a wait-and-see approach.

Here's my thinking, actual test scores shouldn't be tampered with.

College admissions should be the ones addressing the adversity a student faced when reviewing them for acceptance.

Tests should be completely unbiased and objective.

We both know education isn't neutral anymore and completely biased.

[debeguiled]

Adversity is our strength.

[Buck Wild]

(05-16-2019 03:50 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 03:47 PM)Buck Wild Wrote:  

I fully expect that broke white kids from West Virginia trailers parks will, on average, be given similar adversity scores to broke black kids from the hood.

There's nothing wrong with this as long as it is strictly race neutral. I'll adopt a wait-and-see approach.

Here's my thinking, actual test scores shouldn't be tampered with.

College admissions should be the ones addressing the adversity a student faced when reviewing them for acceptance.

Tests should be completely unbiased and objective.

We both know education isn't neutral anymore and completely biased.

They aren't tampering with the test score---they're supplying a second number (the adversity score) in addition to the test score. Unless I'm misreading it...

For the record, I'm completely against modifying the actual test score in any way.

[Klan Killer]

I think affirmative action that benefits the poor and is race-blind would not be a bad thing. Reality is we have an established class system here in the US. I was born to upper middle class parents in a decent area. The advantages this gives me in life are massive. Yeah I worked hard, but I got the opportunity to work hard at things that would secure a decent income and lifestyle for me. This is impossible for Daquan in the hood who is just trying to stay alive, or even for the Steve the lower middle-class white guy who is buried under 200k of student loan debt.

We urgently need a fix for shit like this. White and black Americans are getting poorer and more debt ridden, the longer this lasts the more potential we have for serious unrest down the road. College needs to be reformed from the ground up and poor Americans need to be given at least some help to even the playing field. These kids are born into situations they have no control over and shouldn't get fucked over because of that.

[The Beast1]

(05-16-2019 03:47 PM)Buck Wild Wrote:  

I fully expect that broke white kids from West Virginia trailers parks will, on average, be given similar adversity scores to broke black kids from the hood.

There's nothing wrong with this as long as it is strictly race neutral. I'll adopt a wait-and-see approach.

You'd think they would do that, but knowing who staffs those places I highly doubt it. Those same white kids in West Virginia will be grouped in with kids from Scarsdale NY.

[Captainstabbin]

Quote:

The score would not be reported to the student, only to college officials.

Hackers are going to get their hands on that number. I can't wait to see how it's politicized.

[BortimusPrime]

To this end I'd like to announce my newest real estate development project. It's a planned community called Adversity Meadows, a collection of upscale detached homes and apartment complexes designed with all the modern amenities for young professional strivers with families. In order to ensure your children's academic success we bus in four dozen African-Americans every day and humanely euthanize them in our underground enrichment center, providing the murder rate necessary for a high SAT Adversity score in a safe controlled environment.

[kaotic]

(05-16-2019 04:34 PM)Klan Killer Wrote:  

I think affirmative action that benefits the poor and is race-blind would not be a bad thing. Reality is we have an established class system here in the US. I was born to upper middle class parents in a decent area. The advantages this gives me in life are massive. Yeah I worked hard, but I got the opportunity to work hard at things that would secure a decent income and lifestyle for me. This is impossible for Daquan in the hood who is just trying to stay alive, or even for the Steve the lower middle-class white guy who is buried under 200k of student loan debt.

I 100% agree there are advantages the rich and upper middle class have over kids with lower socioeconomic backgrounds.

They don't go to private schools, get tutors, coaching, get prepping for sat's colleges, or in recent cases bribe their ways into schools.

There definitely is a class system and and oligarchy like government.

It just seems that the SAT is now going to be tainted and certain people will be looked at getting into say an ivy league because of their adversity score instead of their 1400+ SAT Score and working their asses off.

I'm not sure if there's a better way to show meritocracy nowadays with system being so geared towards the rich.

[BortimusPrime]

At least if the college admissions are purely academic then smart people from any social class have a chance to get ahead. That's never been the case, but this is clearly moving in the opposite direction of meritocracy. Poor people can get their bonus ghetto SAT points, rich people can buy property in the ghetto and change their address to get bonus ghetto SAT points, and the middle class can get fucked up the ass as usual.

[BlastbeatCasanova]

“I 100% agree there are advantages the rich and upper middle class have over kids with lower socioeconomic backgrounds”

Well, yeah. That’s kind of the whole point of busting ass, making money, and getting rich: to acquire resources and give your offspring the edge in the game of life.

[kaotic]

(05-16-2019 06:21 PM)BlastbeatCasanova Wrote:  

“I 100% agree there are advantages the rich and upper middle class have over kids with lower socioeconomic backgrounds”

Well, yeah. That’s kind of the whole point of busting ass, making money, and getting rich: to acquire resources and give your offspring the edge in the game of life.

Yeah that's obvious, I'm not saying that's a problem, but circles back to the conversation is further education for only the for the upper class?

After all they have all the advantages and can afford everything that comes with it compared to some average kid saddled with student loans.

We can both probably agree Big EDU is getting out of control, but I don't have much sympathy for a person who gets a degree in underwater basket weaving of course.

I'm just spitballing here and thinking about ways we can reform the system from it's current state.

[TigOlBitties]

Our society places way too much importance on college. Shit is overpriced, overrun with Marxists and most of the classes are useless in the real world. Bunch of parasites taking advantage of naive people.

[EndsExpect]

(05-16-2019 03:50 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Here's my thinking, actual test scores shouldn't be tampered with.
College admissions should be the ones addressing the adversity a student faced when reviewing them for acceptance.
Tests should be completely unbiased and objective.
We both know education isn't neutral anymore and completely biased.

Here is my thinking. I'm not against giving poor kids some help in college admissions. However, the fact that they refuse to be open or honest about how they come up with these scores is absolute bullshit. I think any institution doing this should be banned from taking public money until they become open and honest about how they are grading students.

Listen, Texas already addressed this issue by guaranteeing any student in the top 10% of any highschool automatic enrollment into a state school. Their schools are some of the best in the nation for diversity.

I'm also going to point this out. Schools like Yale let a lot of black kids from poor backgrounds attend their school despite poor scores. These kids dropout at an enormous rate, or fall back into worthless majors. I'm sure to these kids the University system feels really racist... because their Democrat run schools are idiot factories and they don't have the training to compete at a college level.

Why won't someone stand up to these fuckers? Are they really that powerful?

[LINUX]

Go to a community college the first two years.

It's less than half the price, classes are smaller and the education is better.

After your first two years, transfer to a public 4 year university of your choice.

99% of public 4 year universities only require SAT and ACT scores for incoming freshman or people with less than 24 credit hours. Not for transfers.

So this SAT decision will not really effect you white or Asian men if you go this route, unless you are a dumbass and can't keep your grades up in community college and in that case, you probably just didn't try.

[Kid Twist]

I saw a couple of talk show people mention it, but this is really what's going on here, besides the dual advantage of being able to claim some modern level of "woke" or virtue signalling as an "aid" to colleges, what's up their collective alleys:

It is that a 3rd party, credentialing type of organization (SAT) needs to stay relevant as a test that isn't really taken seriously anymore, let alone required by many universities. This has one part a) modern college is bullshit and too many people go, and another part b) going became such a cultural imperative and [you guessed it] business that having the right materials to pass it, score higher, or use it as a true measure became diluted except for those getting the perfect score. I have gone far enough in my field (physician) to realize that after a good amount of intrinsic intelligence, it always became far more about having the right materials. It literally spans the gamut from college entrance exams all the way to board certification exams. I joked with friends all along the way that knowing the game was always far more important than anything else. This included totally ridiculous shit like taking organic chemistry at a lesser university in the summer or something where you could get a high B or A even, or going to a random university to get the headline gpa number of 3.9 vs going to a really good school where getting a 3.2 was a challenge, if not totally watered down like Harvard ended up being.

It's a paradox. Precisely because universities became so well attended and the numbers grew so huge in admissions, the middle 80% differentiation made stuff like this a joke. The problem is that if you are in the 80 percentile up, it means the world to you to get this as a "qualifying factor" because you have a real shot in making it to that desired, stable and high paying career if you get a decent score. That's not the be all end all, but in America it was always the plan.

[la bodhisattva]

(05-16-2019 03:47 PM)Buck Wild Wrote:  

I fully expect that broke white kids from West Virginia trailers parks will, on average, be given similar adversity scores to broke black kids from the hood.

There's nothing wrong with this as long as it is strictly race neutral. I'll adopt a wait-and-see approach.

As a non-broke white boy who grew in a house amidst poverty and trailer parks in WV, attended under-funded schools, was immersed in a culture that teaches/taught hopelessness, pessimism, and defeatism and now works within the education system in this State, I assure you no top 25 university is coming to our districts to snag up the kid who scored a 32 on his ACT while working at Wal-Mart part time....the same one his mom works at full-time, to make ends meet. The only thing that matters is what bubble is filled in in the demographics section. In the eyes of Harvard, that poor white boy whose mom was knocked up at 17 and dropped out of school is no different than the Kennedy relative at Philips Exeter.

Get a 1610 on the your SAT (equivalent to a 24 ACT typically taken in WV) in Randallstown, Maryland, and Johns Hopkins will give you a scholarship. Saw it happen. I'll let you guess the difference.

[Bazzwaldo]

My questions are these:
Does this change to the enrollment entitle a less intelligent “impoverished” kid to take the seat of a more intelligent “affluent” kid?
Or, does this just allow more entries into college?
If it’s the first option, it sounds like cultural Marxism, if it’s the second it sounds like the elite are trying to source from a larger pool to debt rape
The west is going down the shitter either way!
Diversity is our adversity and their strength

[TigerMandingo]

Let’s stop tap-dancing around the subject. This is just a way to prop up black and Hispanic kids’ SAT scores.

[VNvet]

(05-16-2019 06:30 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 06:21 PM)BlastbeatCasanova Wrote:  

“I 100% agree there are advantages the rich and upper middle class have over kids with lower socioeconomic backgrounds”

Well, yeah. That’s kind of the whole point of busting ass, making money, and getting rich: to acquire resources and give your offspring the edge in the game of life.

Yeah that's obvious, I'm not saying that's a problem, but circles back to the conversation is further education for only the for the upper class?

Yes, it should only be for the upper class.

Higher education was designed for the upper class by the upper class. This is why it was, and still is to an extent, considered prestigious. Going to university used to mean you were an elite in the days when a blue collar job could support a family.

It doesn't mean much now. Getting a degree is basically a requirement to support yourself AND everyone can go to university.

Pumping out more degrees just dilutes the value of the degree. The monetary value and societal perception of a JD vs the monetary value and societal perception of an MD over the past 50 years is a good case study.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

When these kids get into the actual colleges, they will not get "adversity points" on their tests. So attrition rates will skyrocket.

And if by chance they get pushed through college, they will not get "adversity points" when they get jobs and attempt to do our taxes, offer us tech support, perform surgery on us, or invest our money.

It's the rest of us who will pay in "adversity point" then, when we have more and more incompetents in the workplace.

[iop890]

Is there even much of a correlation between economic status and SAT scores after you adjust for race? The SAT is basically just a disguised IQ test.