[Manbeline]

In my circle of friends that I've been with for years, I've noticed slowly I've been left out of activities and communication as time has gone on. Not because of normal straying away, but I have become increasingly non-bs while the rest are still mentally not accepting reality. For instance, whenever certain topics come up and I give my input, I've caused some discomfort and rift due to my opinions. Nothing insulting, but they have taken them as such. As a result, I'm becoming naturally ostracized due to friends of friends problem where they rather not get on my side due to not wanting to leave the cool/ majority crowd of the circle. I will like to say I loathe the PC environment. Politics has become the devil that strips away all things good and wholesome. I had nothing but respect and love for those I bring into my life, but it's a very annoying that this media, this culture, has made it so that if someone says something you do not like, instead of confronting and discussing it like the friends, the adults, that we are, that the person rather push you away and treat you like an enemy.

I make good money. I'm in great shape. My doctor wishes I was less healthy so I can come back more. I live for myself. But I lost something along the way: the people I loved. The redpill is a nice concept, but it's a hard thing to take. And even if I get over this, I'm still only human. It's just sad that the crowd I usually relate to are normally in the bluepill sphere of life. They're nerdy, they're quirky, they're my type of fun. I was a nerd before this life and still am, just with more muscle and a more real look out on life. I don't want to have to be quiet from now on during conversations when the stuff I say are meant out of desire to see people improve. And yet if I open my mouth, I will be shun as my words are not sweet to their ears.

I hear over and over on this forum that to be lonely is to be a man. But I also hear that to be social and have people surround you that care for you also means to be a man. A family. I don't know what to do somedays. I hope the more wise people on this forum can shine some light on it for me. Thanks.

[BBinger]

(03-13-2019 09:34 AM)Manbeline Wrote:  

In my circle of friends that I've been with for years, I've noticed slowly I've been left out of activities and communication as time has gone on. Not because of normal straying away, but I have become increasingly non-bs while the rest are still mentally not accepting reality. For instance, whenever certain topics come up and I give my input, I've caused some discomfort and rift due to my opinions. Nothing insulting, but they have taken them as such. As a result, I'm becoming naturally ostracized due to friends of friends problem where they rather not get on my side due to not wanting to leave the cool/ majority crowd of the circle. I will like to say I loathe the PC environment. Politics has become the devil that strips away all things good and wholesome. I had nothing but respect and love for those I bring into my life, but it's a very annoying that this media, this culture, has made it so that if someone says something you do not like, instead of confronting and discussing it like the friends, the adults, that we are, that the person rather push you away and treat you like an enemy.

I make good money. I'm in great shape. My doctor wishes I was less healthy so I can come back more. I live for myself. But I lost something along the way: the people I loved. The redpill is a nice concept, but it's a hard thing to take. And even if I get over this, I'm still only human. It's just sad that the crowd I usually relate to are normally in the bluepill sphere of life. They're nerdy, they're quirky, they're my type of fun. I was a nerd before this life and still am, just with more muscle and a more real look out on life. I don't want to have to be quiet from now on during conversations when the stuff I say are meant out of desire to see people improve. And yet if I open my mouth, I will be shun as my words are not sweet to their ears.

I hear over and over on this forum that to be lonely is to be a man. But I also hear that to be social and have people surround you that care for you also means to be a man. A family. I don't know what to do somedays. I hope the more wise people on this forum can shine some light on it for me. Thanks.

You take on projects and missions, then along the way you meet people while screening for bad faith actors. You find people with missions who align with yours, or your find people working on a mission you support and maybe contribute to their project. However, there's a lot of people working on crap, so this is a long term search. You always have to be aware that politically connected loneliness is a vulnerability to certain kinds of social engineering attacks.


In the short to mid term you look to build new connections on a social basis. Work on maintaining contact with people in your life with whom you can "agree to disagree" and limit contact with people who insist on PC policing and advancing Pantsuitist stupidity all the time. Most people are average or below. A lot of people aren't worth your time, or anyone else's. Not even their own. That these people are consumers is the true ecological peril of our age.

Also, read old books from before the world went to shit.

[ascotpudding]

BBinger is correct. It's not just a cliche that you are the average of the 5 people that you spend the most time with.

Get to know better people whose goals and outlook align with yours and you'll wind up with a much better quality group of friends.

Even better, you will push each other to do bigger things and achieve more with your life.

Forget about the old group, they would have held you back anyway.

It takes time, but is well worth the investment.

[BBinger]

(03-13-2019 12:55 PM)ascotpudding Wrote:  

BBinger is correct. It's not just a cliche that you are the average of the 5 people that you spend the most time with.

Get to know better people whose goals and outlook align with yours and you'll wind up with a much better quality group of friends.

Even better, you will push each other to do bigger things and achieve more with your life.

Forget about the old group, they would have held you back anyway.

It takes time, but is well worth the investment.

This holds even if a portion of those five people still only live in print.

[Laner]

Dropping friends is a pretty natural part of being a man. The first time is the hardest, then it gets easier. In the end you are surrounded by better people than you ever thought possible, but at the same time populism and in crowd mentality is so ingrained in us from the school years that we still find it even as we push through our 30's.

If you actually do find yourself always alone and frustrated by this, then I would take a deeper look at why. Being 'Red Pilled' does not mean being a social outcast. It means understanding what it takes to build a healthy society despite all the constant threat to burn it all down.

Men have been doing this for thousands of years. Sometimes it really is a true loner who shakes things out in society, but 99% of the time its the few men who are aware, strong and comfortable in being uncomfortable, who keep things glued together.

If you have a good woman, a good family and 5 good men in your life this is all you need. This should be all you have time for.

[kaotic]

While you do want to surround yourself with people that are like minded.

Only you can question if your relationships with your current social circle is worth leaving because of the PC/SJW culture.

It also depends on how you're FRAMING your responses.

Personally, people know my stance, I don't go out of way to voice it, honestly its waste of time to argue and circle jerk politics with friends or family - people are set in their ways - at this point in the political climate you aren't winning anyone over, just alienating them (on both sides).

To me my social circle means alot, it's not worth it and have a friends far and wide on the political spectrum.

Obviously I lean to hanging more with like minded friends but I've definitely got regular liberal friends I hang with on the regular.

Thing is, end of day we're still hanging out having a good time, occasionally shit talking/ribbing (in a funny way) about Trump or some liberal leader.

[Manbeline]

Thank you for the responses. I believed that I had gotten rid of my will to care what people think of me, but it seems some things are harder to remove. I have gotten over a lot of the traits that set me back, but there is still that lingering pride of trying to be this superman or this guy no one can think bad of. I am continuing to follow the doctrine that I have learned from this forum that to keep frame and masculinity, and success and people will naturally flock to you.

In my change, I have gotten more attraction from different peers and people. I seem to attract more normal people, and this is likely where my biggest challenge yet comes from. As I said, I was always a nerd but I had the social awareness to talk with a lot of social circles, especially in high school. I was not just in the nerd circle, I was in the jock circle, the hang-out-on-the-corner circle, and the academic circle. I had learned to adapt to be the everyman from my experiences through elementary and high school. I suppose this is what eventually led to me gaining this obligation to make everyone happy. Then I learned the hard truth about friendships and trust. I have recovered, but old habits die hard.

What I do know is that I am not a common build of a person. There are things that I like, things that I believe, things that I cherish, things that I am, that there are very people in this world that share the same permutations of what makes me and what I can relate to. Finding someone with the same missions as me has been something I have been trying to fill in my life, but it is difficult. I have people that naturally get what I am about because they are more mature about life. They come to me when they are in trouble because I am the guy who does not fall to emotions or has a reasonable mind. A leader, you can say, though I doubt I am ready to ever be one. I do not even know if I want that title, that responsibility, either.

But your words are great wisdom and I will take them to heart. Find like minded people. Make a family. The family part is tough. I like traditional girls. Girls today act too much like men. They have money, they are a lot more selective, they do not try to pretty themselves that much. Just so many unattractive qualities. I want a woman to merry. This will be my next hurdle once I get to that stage of my life.

[Dalaran1991]

A lot of people in the manosphere also score very very low on the agreeableness scale. This is logical because the Red Pill does encourage that kind of behaviour, but i find that a lot of the time it pushes people too far.

I know a few guys in the game who are incredibly frustrated and lonely and unable to have any kind of stable relationship even with their parents. They blame it on them having so much progress in the red pill while in fact they are just insufferable assholes. Not saying this is you OP but you might want to take a moment to think if you are not the one pushing people away.

I really cant stand a lot of the weirdo "game aware" guys who always look down on people who are not "redpilled" like him, almost like he just converted to veganism or flat earth theory or Jehovah witness. They can't wait to voice their opinion on how you must take away women's vote or expell all non-white people in the most mundane conversation. No shit dude thats a sure fire way to get black balled from almost every group, regardless of political affiliation.

Realize also that people are not perfect. That beta nerd who go on women's march might be a very good engineer who will fix your computer one day. I feel like as long as i keep my personal beliefs to myself i can hold very good relationships. Of course the people closest to you would have to share your beliefs.

My 2 cents

[semibaron]

(03-13-2019 08:37 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

A lot of people in the manosphere also score very very low on the agreeableness scale. This is logical because the Red Pill does encourage that kind of behaviour, but i find that a lot of the time it pushes people too far.

I know a few guys in the game who are incredibly frustrated and lonely and unable to have any kind of stable relationship even with their parents. They blame it on them having so much progress in the red pill while in fact they are just insufferable assholes. Not saying this is you OP but you might want to take a moment to think if you are not the one pushing people away.

I really cant stand a lot of the weirdo "game aware" guys who always look down on people who are not "redpilled" like him, almost like he just converted to veganism or flat earth theory or Jehovah witness. They can't wait to voice their opinion on how you must take away women's vote or expell all non-white people in the most mundane conversation. No shit dude thats a sure fire way to get black balled from almost every group, regardless of political affiliation.

Realize also that people are not perfect. That beta nerd who go on women's march might be a very good engineer who will fix your computer one day. I feel like as long as i keep my personal beliefs to myself i can hold very good relationships. Of course the people closest to you would have to share your beliefs.

My 2 cents

From time to time I meet guys from the forum who just don't stop talking about "game" or "how did you discover the red pill". Man, I just want to hang out and chill.

[kaotic]

(03-13-2019 09:48 PM)semibaron Wrote:  

From time to time I meet guys from the forum who just don't stop talking about "game" or "how did you discover the red pill". Man, I just want to hang out and chill.

Dude preach!

Just grab a beer with forum members and hell maybe not even talk about what's going on, on the forum.

I highly suggest vetting and meeting forum members who have been vetted or met.

Even annual meet ups (although I suggest taking that off the forum and use backend channels)

Dalaran is also right, there's a balance between overdosing on the red pill versus being aware and using it to your advantage.

[Geomann180]

(03-13-2019 02:03 PM)Manbeline Wrote:  

Thank you for the responses. I believed that I had gotten rid of my will to care what people think of me, but it seems some things are harder to remove. I have gotten over a lot of the traits that set me back, but there is still that lingering pride of trying to be this superman or this guy no one can think bad of. I am continuing to follow the doctrine that I have learned from this forum that to keep frame and masculinity, and success and people will naturally flock to you.

Stop trying to be someone people like. Don't hide your flaws. If you do, people will like you for who they think you are and will leave when your mask slips. We all have masks, sure, as you are different variations of your true self in different company. But don't put a false mask on.

Be who you are and nothing else. The people who will come into your life will like the actual person you are and you'll be happier with a real friendship. Extended theater is not good for anyone. Look at the drama kids? Where are they now?

Quote:

In my change, I have gotten more attraction from different peers and people. I seem to attract more normal people, and this is likely where my biggest challenge yet comes from. As I said, I was always a nerd but I had the social awareness to talk with a lot of social circles, especially in high school. I was not just in the nerd circle, I was in the jock circle, the hang-out-on-the-corner circle, and the academic circle. I had learned to adapt to be the everyman from my experiences through elementary and high school. I suppose this is what eventually led to me gaining this obligation to make everyone happy. Then I learned the hard truth about friendships and trust. I have recovered, but old habits die hard.

I had a similar situation in highschool. I was part of a lot of social circles in highschool all the way from the lowliest nerdling (one of those circles was a mistake though) to the jocks and rich kids. I was my own person - the "military kid" because I went to military school. I played on the rugby team so I had those friends who respected me because I was the best tackler on the team. But I was stiff so much so it looked like I walked with a pole up my ass. Socially awkward as hell. I never belonged to any particular group until my last year. Which was my best year - but my whole experience could have been way better had I a solid group all four years.

Quote:

What I do know is that I am not a common build of a person. There are things that I like, things that I believe, things that I cherish, things that I am, that there are very people in this world that share the same permutations of what makes me and what I can relate to. Finding someone with the same missions as me has been something I have been trying to fill in my life, but it is difficult. I have people that naturally get what I am about because they are more mature about life. They come to me when they are in trouble because I am the guy who does not fall to emotions or has a reasonable mind. A leader, you can say, though I doubt I am ready to ever be one. I do not even know if I want that title, that responsibility, either.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown. People like unwilling leaders as power foisted upon someone manifests differently than power given to someone who sought it out for its own sake. As for finding like minded people, I'll say the same thing. Be who you are, do your own thing, and you'll meet people who are on the same wavelength.

If you really like chasing girls and that's your mission? Great - do it and you'll make friends of fellow ladykillers. But if you're not, stop it. You'll just sound like some Sigmaalphawolffuckbeastballsdeep characture of a man. And attract the same.

Quote:

But your words are great wisdom and I will take them to heart. Find like minded people. Make a family. The family part is tough. I like traditional girls. Girls today act too much like men. They have money, they are a lot more selective, they do not try to pretty themselves that much. Just so many unattractive qualities. I want a woman to merry. This will be my next hurdle once I get to that stage of my life.

Hardly anything worth doing is easy. So start now, you don't have forever.

G

[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

(03-13-2019 09:34 AM)Manbeline Wrote:  

but it's a very annoying that this media, this culture, has made it so that if someone says something you do not like, instead of confronting and discussing it like the friends, the adults, that we are, that the person rather push you away and treat you like an enemy

I wouldn't worry about losing this type of people. They are toxic and you're right for cutting them off if they show an inability and curiosity to try and understand different perspectives. Being humble to different perspectives and opinions is something rare today but it's very important and a requirement if you're going to be able to have a good relationship with that person.

That's more the problem than they're blue pill. There are about two leftists that I get along well with which I hardly agree with anything on, but they can be fun and interesting to be around cause they have that ability and are humble enough. I think that classic video with Ben Affleck acting like a bitch to Sam Harris (on the topic of Islam) is a good example of this. I don't agree much with Sam Harris on things but he has at least some intellectual honesty and is the type of person I could be friends with meanwhile I'd rather be alone than being surrounded by twats like Ben Affleck.

Anyway, seems like past around 30, many guys are to busy and caught up in family life anyway to have much time or energy to hang out.

[8ball]

I’ve learned along time ago to have relationships with people from different walks of life and not force my philosophy on every individual I meet. It won’t help you in the long run if you cut out friends for the wrong reasons, such as different political views or views on women, unless of course they try and force their ideas on you.

All you should ask yourself is weather you enjoy or are somehow benefiting from the time that you spend with them. Say a guy that you enjoy watching and talking about hockey is a pot head with a chubby gf who has no real goals. You don’t have to preach “red pill” and begin a lecture about self improvement. He is the “hockey friend”, that’s it, that’s all he will be. Do not try and change him unless he sincerely makes the first step.

This approach will help you not just in having a more fulfilling social life but also throughout your career.

[marcusdivincenzo]

If you are a “lone wolf” it means you provide no value to anybody but yourself. This is the exact opposite of what is right. Only a life lived for others is worth living. You must identify the point when you started becoming a “lone wolf” and reverse all actions taken after this point.

Politics is a crutch. A true conservative/libertarian is tolerant of all viewpoints and can get along with anyone. It’s more likely you think your opinions make you a good person and you look down on others, which is the path to hell.

[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

(03-14-2019 05:58 AM)marcusdivincenzo Wrote:  

If you are a “lone wolf” it means you provide no value to anybody but yourself. This is the exact opposite of what is right. Only a life lived for others is worth living. You must identify the point when you started becoming a “lone wolf” and reverse all actions taken after this point.

Yeah, Nikola Tesla just came up with the radio (which he didn't get patent for though), had about 300 inventions and invented alternating current (AC) which is the foundation of all the power systems and in the modern society with electricity and most likely you wouldn't even be able to type the message above on a screen and transmit it worldwide if it wasn't for him.

But that lone wolf guy provided no value to others of course...

[marcusdivincenzo]

Glad I struck a chord with you. It means you must be grappling with these issues too.

1. You are probably not Tesla
2. Even Tesla had friends (eg he was close friends with Mark Twain and others)

[Cobra]

I'm going to go against the grain just a bit on this like I usually do.

Friendships are not "red" pill or "blue" pill. They are relationships. Also friendships are not liberal or conservative either. Again, they are relationships.

If you look at everything from a red pill/blue pill or alpha/beta mentality, you are setting yourself up for failure in relationships. My stance is to be more open. People's lack of knowledge does not necessarily make them a bad person. Just misinformed about reality.

Similar to some others here, I do not voice my opinions in an abrasive or even dissenting way. I make my opinons known only to those closest to me. And, yes this includes liberals.

Some of my best friends are liberals and in personality, some are more alpha than some of my conservative friends. Sometimes, it's because they are more social. Other times because they care about others. Again, remember these are human qualities. Not red or blue pill.

To me, taking the red pill also means distancing yourself from common misconceptions like this which suggest that you actually need to or will lose friends because of your changed views.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy for fucks sakes.

[zatara]

I have some friends who I can't discuss politics with, because they're borderline SJWs in their views. But they're great guys in many other ways, so I just don't discuss politics with them.
I have some friends who've been with their gfs/wives since 18, and have no appreciation of game or chasing women - and don't want to hear about it at all. But they're still good guys.
I have some friends who're out of shape messes, so I don't discuss sports or fitness with them
etc

One of the biggest lessons as an adult I learnt is accepting that not everyone close to me is perfect in my eyes, or needs to be. Everyone in your family, and all of your friends, will have flaws once you get to know them properly. That doesn't mean you need to be an asshole to them, preach at them constantly to convert them, or cut them out. Those approaches will just leave you alone and lonely. If you've been friends with someone for years, have significant history with them, and trust them, you just need to learn when and where to have certain discussions. Focus on your common ground and shared interests, not divisive things.

[Manbeline]

Allow me to clarify that I in no way look down on my common man. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and am always willing to help friends in need, especially in areas of advice. What sort of hurt me is that some of them took me for granted and I found out that when they were voicing their concerns, they were talking at me rather than wanting to talk with me. That is when I learned that some people don't want help. They want attention, guys and girls included. I do not ever talk about "game" to anyone, as none of my friends are interested in that type of talk. There is maybe two guys I speak that stuff about, but it's only cause it's a natural flow of psychology discussions we have during a lunch.

Understand also that I am accepting of their flaws. They just are not accepting of mines. I am open to them, as I have been to a lot of people, but found out in a crushing way that in the end, they were not returning the favor. I had misjudged them. As well, I did discover that I could not make everyone happy and that was a natural thing in the end. I have to accept I will upset people without intention. That is also what it means to be a man.

This is what it all boils down to. I must grow myself more as a man, to know that the world will fall when I do not want it and to weather the storm. To keep my back straight and shoulders back. I am still getting use to this new lifestyle of independence, so pardon what may seem like naivety.

[heavy]

(03-14-2019 11:25 AM)Manbeline Wrote:  

Allow me to clarify that I in no way look down on my common man. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and am always willing to help friends in need, especially in areas of advice. What sort of hurt me is that some of them took me for granted and I found out that when they were voicing their concerns, they were talking at me rather than wanting to talk with me. That is when I learned that some people don't want help. They want attention, guys and girls included. I do not ever talk about "game" to anyone, as none of my friends are interested in that type of talk. There is maybe two guys I speak that stuff about, but it's only cause it's a natural flow of psychology discussions we have during a lunch.

Understand also that I am accepting of their flaws. They just are not accepting of mines. I am open to them, as I have been to a lot of people, but found out in a crushing way that in the end, they were not returning the favor. I had misjudged them. As well, I did discover that I could not make everyone happy and that was a natural thing in the end. I have to accept I will upset people without intention. That is also what it means to be a man.

This is what it all boils down to. I must grow myself more as a man, to know that the world will fall when I do not want it and to weather the storm. To keep my back straight and shoulders back. I am still getting use to this new lifestyle of independence, so pardon what may seem like naivety.

Interesting, because I was in the midst of typing a response that addresses exactly this. To what Dalaran1991 mentioned, you seem low in agreeableness. I'm not saying you are, but it seems that way.

I've worked with and for people low in agreeableness (currently). I love the advice they offer. I love the black and white way of looking at the world, finding all the potential flaws and missteps in processes. I even love the productivity afforded by the lack of fluff conversation.

But I don't like working with them. I don't particularly enjoy conversing with them.

People want advice when learning from you. They don't want advice when just conversing.

If people want to give advice, listen. You might learn something. Or you might just develop a personal bond with the person.

Just go, "Hmm, interesting point. I'm not sure that's what's going on, but it's an interesting perspective I didn't see."

...and then maybe offer your perspective, not as truth or fact, but merely as a different perspective.

Perhaps they want to take your advice and implement it, it just didn't hit home enough in their mind. Don't treat people like computers. We have minds, and science knows very, very little about how our minds work. Have humility when dealing with human minds. What works for you will not (not could not, not might not, will not) work for most other people.

All that said, it's fine if you don't want to add this meaningless fluff to your life. I don't judge a person who chooses to simply stick with the problem solving, productive nature of life. But I suspect when you start a thread addressing the topic, there's something you feel that's missing.

And I don't think you're alone. I'm fairly certain most guys on this forum had to go through similar experiences.

[Dalaran1991]

(03-14-2019 11:25 AM)Manbeline Wrote:  

I found out that when they were voicing their concerns, they were talking at me rather than wanting to talk with me. That is when I learned that some people don't want help. They want attention, guys and girls included.

.... they were not returning the favor.

It's obvious that you have good intentions, but usually with people good intentions is not important as attitude. Allow me to explain.

Realize that EVERYBODY wants attention, and when people talk to you they don't want advice, they just want to have somebody to share things with. By giving them unsolicited advice not only do you prove that you are
not listening but also it gives the impression that you are arrogant.

If there's something that got more rejection and contempt than Elliot Rodger, it's gotta be unsolicted advice. This is exactly why the wisest people are the ones who talk least.

Then you may have a problem with expectation's management, which is tied in to the above. You might have expected them to treat you like you treat them, but that was never their intention to begin with. This mismatch is very often due to the RP guy being too deep in his ways to be able to empathize with others, and his unwillingness to compromise even on emotional stance.

I actually have the perfect example for you. Actually I'm wondering if you are his 2nd account I used to hang with a guy from the forum. He's a good guy at heart, but he's insufferable. For him there's black and white, his way or the highway and even though he doesn't voice it, the contempt for other people oozes out and everybody senses it.

That's why despite being a pretty smart guy with a good heart, he has almost zero friend and his closest friend "betrayed" him. And what he called "betrayed", if I understand correctly, was just that the guy was ghosting on him.

I invited him to 2 parties and everyone, everyone from various background, all told me the same thing that this guy was just weird and uncool. Why? Because after each party he was telling me how everyone at the party was uncool, not smart, etc. And the people sensed it.

Next, I asked him for some advice on real estate but then he went too far and almost try to micro manage my project. When his advice fall shorts I decided to stop following it. He took it as a betrayal, again. He told me that he should have made me pay for his advice. That's the hair that broke the camel back and I cut him from my life.

I just feel pity for him since he's not a bad person but he will well become one if he keeps going this way. The next thing you should pay attention to is that, it might infect the way your relationship with women go. The guy mentioned above has no problem getting ONS or some fuckbuddy relationship but he never had a proper LTR. Shit, if a fellow RP guy can't stand you how the hell do you suppose women can stand you?


Ya all know the most ironic thing out of all this? If you put OP with my example, or with any other people like him, they won't be able to stand each other. I've seen this happen so many times with the forum members in Paris. Go too deep in the RP and you will be very lonely.

[Manbeline]

(03-14-2019 11:38 AM)heavy Wrote:  

(03-14-2019 11:25 AM)Manbeline Wrote:  

Allow me to clarify that I in no way look down on my common man. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and am always willing to help friends in need, especially in areas of advice. What sort of hurt me is that some of them took me for granted and I found out that when they were voicing their concerns, they were talking at me rather than wanting to talk with me. That is when I learned that some people don't want help. They want attention, guys and girls included. I do not ever talk about "game" to anyone, as none of my friends are interested in that type of talk. There is maybe two guys I speak that stuff about, but it's only cause it's a natural flow of psychology discussions we have during a lunch.

Understand also that I am accepting of their flaws. They just are not accepting of mines. I am open to them, as I have been to a lot of people, but found out in a crushing way that in the end, they were not returning the favor. I had misjudged them. As well, I did discover that I could not make everyone happy and that was a natural thing in the end. I have to accept I will upset people without intention. That is also what it means to be a man.

This is what it all boils down to. I must grow myself more as a man, to know that the world will fall when I do not want it and to weather the storm. To keep my back straight and shoulders back. I am still getting use to this new lifestyle of independence, so pardon what may seem like naivety.

Interesting, because I was in the midst of typing a response that addresses exactly this. To what Dalaran1991 mentioned, you seem low in agreeableness. I'm not saying you are, but it seems that way.

I've worked with and for people low in agreeableness (currently). I love the advice they offer. I love the black and white way of looking at the world, finding all the potential flaws and missteps in processes. I even love the productivity afforded by the lack of fluff conversation.

But I don't like working with them. I don't particularly enjoy conversing with them.

People want advice when learning from you. They don't want advice when just conversing.

If people want to give advice, listen. You might learn something. Or you might just develop a personal bond with the person.

Just go, "Hmm, interesting point. I'm not sure that's what's going on, but it's an interesting perspective I didn't see."

...and then maybe offer your perspective, not as truth or fact, but merely as a different perspective.

Perhaps they want to take your advice and implement it, it just didn't hit home enough in their mind. Don't treat people like computers. We have minds, and science knows very, very little about how our minds work. Have humility when dealing with human minds. What works for you will not (not could not, not might not, will not) work for most other people.

All that said, it's fine if you don't want to add this meaningless fluff to your life. I don't judge a person who chooses to simply stick with the problem solving, productive nature of life. But I suspect when you start a thread addressing the topic, there's something you feel that's missing.

And I don't think you're alone. I'm fairly certain most guys on this forum had to go through similar experiences.

You're right, I'm not an agreeable person. There was a time when I was very agreeable. I still hold traits of it as I do not judge people when they tell me about themselves. I've gotten comments that I am not judgmental when people talk to me, as they would normally feel criticized or embarrassed to reveal a fact to me. I am agreeable to people as long as they do not have any political things to throw at me or issues that are very sensitive. I fall into the trap of politics, for instance, or I use to because the conversation was brought to that by the other party. I do not look at the world as a computer, or that much of a logical thinker, since I at least consider other's points of views. To be clear, I am enemies with very few people. Where I dropped the ball is that I thought I could do no wrong.

You are right that I am not that alone. There is bound to be like minded people out there. More locally than not. I find people online with similar views, but I am human. It is finding them locally that is tough. Despite living in a big major city, I do not run into many people that care about the level of conversation I can go to, or have qualities that will make them more than just an acquaintance. Or you run into that one person that just clicks for you. They have different views, but you two click in a way you did not want. That may be the feeling I am longing for.

[Manbeline]

(03-14-2019 12:27 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(03-14-2019 11:25 AM)Manbeline Wrote:  

I found out that when they were voicing their concerns, they were talking at me rather than wanting to talk with me. That is when I learned that some people don't want help. They want attention, guys and girls included.

.... they were not returning the favor.

It's obvious that you have good intentions, but usually with people good intentions is not important as attitude. Allow me to explain.

Realize that EVERYBODY wants attention, and when people talk to you they don't want advice, they just want to have somebody to share things with. By giving them unsolicited advice not only do you prove that you are
not listening but also it gives the impression that you are arrogant.

If there's something that got more rejection and contempt than Elliot Rodger, it's gotta be unsolicted advice. This is exactly why the wisest people are the ones who talk least.

Then you may have a problem with expectation's management, which is tied in to the above. You might have expected them to treat you like you treat them, but that was never their intention to begin with. This mismatch is very often due to the RP guy being too deep in his ways to be able to empathize with others, and his unwillingness to compromise even on emotional stance.

I actually have the perfect example for you. Actually I'm wondering if you are his 2nd account I used to hang with a guy from the forum. He's a good guy at heart, but he's insufferable. For him there's black and white, his way or the highway and even though he doesn't voice it, the contempt for other people oozes out and everybody senses it.

That's why despite being a pretty smart guy with a good heart, he has almost zero friend and his closest friend "betrayed" him. And what he called "betrayed", if I understand correctly, was just that the guy was ghosting on him.

I invited him to 2 parties and everyone, everyone from various background, all told me the same thing that this guy was just weird and uncool. Why? Because after each party he was telling me how everyone at the party was uncool, not smart, etc. And the people sensed it.

Next, I asked him for some advice on real estate but then he went too far and almost try to micro manage my project. When his advice fall shorts I decided to stop following it. He took it as a betrayal, again. He told me that he should have made me pay for his advice. That's the hair that broke the camel back and I cut him from my life.

I just feel pity for him since he's not a bad person but he will well become one if he keeps going this way. The next thing you should pay attention to is that, it might infect the way your relationship with women go. The guy mentioned above has no problem getting ONS or some fuckbuddy relationship but he never had a proper LTR. Shit, if a fellow RP guy can't stand you how the hell do you suppose women can stand you?

That guy sounds like someone I will not hang out with. I may be painting myself wrong here and sorry if I am not making it all clear. I am more empathetic than that. I don't see people as mere objects, but as humans. What happened, and the flaw I made, the one you at least acknowledged, is that I projected my view on things, my world, on others. I expected them to be able to talk back to me with the understanding that I mean no harm in whatever I say except if it means I am intentionally attacking them. I do not want to call these individuals thin-skinned, as I do not want to show myself as someone who thinks himself better. But that's the qualities I am getting from the usual crowd of those who go silent on me.

I went on a soul search for a while where I sat down and wondered what all I could do to get the change I wanted. One thing was "talking less." What made me wrestle with that solution is that I am giving up ground in the conversation space and letting others walk over me in fear of transgressions. Then that made me question whether a friendly person would try to attack a friend for voicing an opinion. I have yet to solve this conundrum, though the logical answer is: they are not worth being friends. Every solution I kept trying to come up with would lead to me literally not being able to be social. I would have to be the quiet dude in the corner while others get to say what they want because they are in the special sphere of a group to say and think without retribution. It's strange, this ties into the whole tribal phenomenon I see these days.

[Dream Medicine]

Great replies from Dalaran, Cobra, Zatara, Heavy, Latan and Kaotic among others. I appreciate how they explored the limitations of {a} seeking friendships based on strict purity of shared ideologies, {b} viewing others through a lens of dichotomous blue/red pill thinking or alpha/beta behaviour, {c} trying to teach others in your established networks, etc.

(03-14-2019 12:30 PM)Manbeline Wrote:  

You are right that I am not that alone. There is bound to be like minded people out there. More locally than not. I find people online with similar views, but I am human. It is finding them locally that is tough. Despite living in a big major city, I do not run into many people that care about the level of conversation I can go to, or have qualities that will make them more than just an acquaintance. Or you run into that one person that just clicks for you. They have different views, but you two click in a way you did not want. That may be the feeling I am longing for.

@OP - Manbeline, instead of complaining online about being a "lone wolf who can't talk red pill truths to my blue pill friends", have you considered using the meetups section of this forum, other meetup groups, seeking out a red-pilled psychologist, or other solutions to your problem of feeling isolated?

This and similar topics have been covered over and over again here at RVF, a forum that has been around for more than a decade. Next time, I suggest you search before you post, let alone start a thread.

> Here is an example of my own take on a similar thread: RE: Whether to help out guy on a blue pill or not?
> More on the 'how' and 'why' behind real-life meetups here: RE: How does one deal with a long dry spell?

No doubt, there's a lot that can be done to spread your own ideas. For instance, there are countless videos online on persuasion tactics and other ways to share the "red pill" (which I define in short as an uncomfortable truth). Others may prefer to speak more publicly - through youtube and so on. And that's all reasonable enough to me, assuming they have established the trust and expertise to pull it off. So by all this I am not saying that you should be scared to speak up but rather, more broadly, that:

First you walk, then you run.*

In conclusion: I don't believe you have to feel alone due to forces beyond your control. You do have the power to build your own network - first your own brotherhood, then your own family. All the best. I really mean it.

* See here for a more detailed self-development plan that goes beyond establishing mateship: RE: The "Hating Women" Stage (notably sections 'social', 'physical' and 'mental/emotional').


P.S. Your language is a bit weird. For instance, "That may be the feeling I am longing for" seems unusual in this context. And by that I mean feminine. For your credibility's sake, I hope that English isn't your first language. After all, you have zero meetup reps which means nobody can vouch for you... and so people may not take you seriously.

Even if you are just someone who trolls, only writes with 100% anonymity online, and/or doesn't end up using this advice, at least someone else can probably do something constructive with these ideas. No hard feelings ey - I don't mind writing this as a side hobby.

[Deepdiver]

I look back on my life and even though I was at times naive in the ways of women and in my younger years exhibited blue pill white knight tendencies I was a Natural Red Pill in one key area - the moment someone disrespected me I cut them out of my life - and I have built upon that to the point of being a true Red Pill Silver Fox Jedi in life and with women.

The best advice I was ever given was basically the 11th commandment of ancient wisdom; Never intentionally make a mortal enemy of another man or woman and never allow him or her to make a Mortal Enemy out of you. Because if you do - if it takes them their entire lifetime they will eventually even the score with you often at a low point where you may be at your weakest (Health, Legal etc).

The flip side is never allowing anyone to make a mortal enemy out of you EVER - friendship and relationships among acquaintances are fine but the moment they Disrespect you in a way that you would not have disrespected them is time to keep them at arms length and if a serious form of disrespect cut them completely out of your life. I had a good friend who needed to finish a project and borrowed $2k from me years ago and when I needed the cash back told me "I'll give you your money back when I think you are starving to death". I wanted in the worse way to put a 357 Slug between his eyes but decided as much of a backstabbing scumbag he was - bad on me for trusting him and that he was simply not worth a bid in the State Pen. So I cut him out of my life completely and never looked back.

This is doubly so with women - anyone on RVF for any period of time learns the true nature of women and that the only form of control that works with them is Dread game - that you can and will walk off to your next best or better spinning plate the moment they Disrespect you.

So absorb the red pills of wisdom men have shared with you and shake off the nostalgia of the seemingly good times you may thought you have had with leftist blue pill SJW "Friends" and then MAN The Phock UP and Build a life, your own tribe and castle - Home and Family on your terms and pick a woman who NEVER Disrespects you and keep business associates, clients and lifestyle acquaintances at arms length until they prove they are respectful and can be trusted like a team or tribe to get your back.