[cruzinV]

Yeah so I'm in my early 30s and never had a gf, about 13 ONS mostly with mediocre women. I used to approach girls doing night game when I was in my 20s but maybe about 1 or 2 a night. Once I hit 30 I pretty much stopped approaching and went MGTOW and would just go out to people watch and get shitfaced, usually alone. Well after a few yrs of doing this I realized it's unhealthy and a pretty fucked up way to live. Problem is I have severe approach anxiety, I haven't approached a girl in 2 years. My looks is my biggest sticking point, my friends have told me I'm about a 4/10 and I think that's pretty accurate. I need to stop thinking about my looks and just approach girls and not give a fuck. But what's the best way to develop the idgaf attitude? How do even get started after 2 yrs of not approaching anyone? I dont have any friends and always go out alone, I think this also hurts my chances. Any advice is appreciated, just trying to change my lifestyle, I feel at this point in my life it's now or never.

[Azlan]

Kuddos for having the balls to man up. I can relate to you...I dont have any friends either and I started daygaming by myself. Are you looking to just stick with night game or to do day game? It sounds like you want to get away from night game. If you want to do day game and you aren't a very good looking guy, you'll need to have a very charming personality if you want to have any success at all. Im a pretty good looking dude but my daygame is shit. Any success ive had, and it isnt much, is entirely due to my looks. To get started just just tell yourself fuck it, Accept that there will be a lot of rejection, and give yourself permission to fail and to be awkward. Know that youll get better. Don't beat yourself up and look at every interaction as a learning experience. Approach in a way that's congruent to who you are. If you're not a high energy type of dude, don't try to fake it. Do what feels right to you. The very first daygame approach is the hardest, just get it done.

[Ouroboros]

(02-20-2019 12:46 AM)cruzinV Wrote:  

...My looks is my biggest sticking point, my friends have told me I'm about a 4/10 and I think that's pretty accurate.

(02-20-2019 12:46 AM)cruzinV Wrote:  

...But what's the best way to develop the idgaf attitude? How do even get started after 2 yrs of not approaching anyone? I dont have any friends and always go out alone, I think this also hurts my chances.

[cruzinV]

(02-20-2019 01:29 AM)Azlan Wrote:  

Kuddos for having the balls to man up. I can relate to you...I dont have any friends either and I started daygaming by myself. Are you looking to just stick with night game or to do day game? It sounds like you want to get away from night game. If you want to do day game and you aren't a very good looking guy, you'll need to have a very charming personality if you want to have any success at all. Im a pretty good looking dude but my daygame is shit. Any success ive had, and it isnt much, is entirely due to my looks. To get started just just tell yourself fuck it, Accept that there will be a lot of rejection, and give yourself permission to fail and to be awkward. Know that youll get better. Don't beat yourself up and look at every interaction as a learning experience. Approach in a way that's congruent to who you are. If you're not a high energy type of dude, don't try to fake it. Do what feels right to you. The very first daygame approach is the hardest, just get it done.

I dont think I'll ever have the balls to do daygame, I need alcohol to gain confidence so nightgame only for me.

Other my subpar face, I'm doing good in all other areas. I'm 6'0 and have an athletic body. I make low six figures, I dont have autism/aspergers, I dress decent...usually wear some Jean's, a button down and polished boots. I just hope I dont give up after a few bad rejections and go back to MGTOW.

[Heuristics]

Inner game man. And also, welcome.

I think a lot has changed viewing it from your perspective.

There's tinder first of all, among other apps. And people are not going out as much to pick up or be picked up at bars.

Get on some weights and running first of all.

You are going to have to limit alcohol access because it is a serious crutch.

Also, daygame is hard. So when you get some confidence in you, start nightgaming. The rejections are much easier to handle. When you're in better shape, get some photos taken and get on the dating platforms.

I still have problems with daygame, so I nightgame a lot. My confidence just isn't where I want it to be.

Also, try to game with a wing, that helps a lot and you can keep each other honest.

Finding a wingman should be your first challenge after getting in better shape. Start a daily training regimen asap, and you will develop confidence.

[cruzinV]

The last time I got laid was a few months ago I went to a bar with a guy I just met that night. He was social and started dancing with a girl while i was standing walking back and forth to bathroom so I dont look stupid. A few moments later the guy comes up to me and says the girls friend wants to talk to me. I said ok and went over, she was 30yrs old, about a 5.5 definitely fuckable. After about 40 minutes of chatting I said let's bounce. I didnt even say to where but she instantly agreed, that's when I knew she wanted to fuck. We just got a cab and went straight to my apt. I fucked her twice and then she just called an uber, she was actually married so I didnt get her number and you can tell she was just looking to get fucked and nothing more. Anyway I did literally no work for this lay which is the only reason i got laid, if it required me to randomly cold approach her it would have never happened. I know I got real lucky that night.

[SamuelBRoberts]

If you're 6'0'' with an athletic body, why are you a 4/10?
Baldness?

[Heuristics]

(02-20-2019 08:43 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

If you're 6'0'' with an athletic body, why are you a 4/10?
Baldness?

Yes, or is it something else like teeth, face, etc? Or dare I say, style? Ill fitting clothes are a bitch... And they will lower your confidence without you realizing.

Race also, or are you a foreigner and that lowers your value?

Cold approach is the door to door sales element of pickup really. It is initially really difficult, and in some ways is a big numbers game, but so many guys aren’t doing it. That’s why it’s so advantageous.

[cruzinV]

(02-20-2019 08:43 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

If you're 6'0'' with an athletic body, why are you a 4/10?
Baldness?

No I have a full head of hair, my face is really messed up man. This isnt an body dysmorphia thing either, theres a reason why I've made it to early 30s without ever having a gf. Every new job Ive had, NO ONE has ever asked if I have a gf or married, they already know I dont. Also all the disgusted looks I've gotten over the years just prove my face is really the problem. Some guys just have a really bad face and that cancels out all the other good aspects. I just need to overcome it somehow.

I am latino, but light skinned.

[Heuristics]

(02-20-2019 08:50 PM)cruzinV Wrote:  

(02-20-2019 08:43 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

If you're 6'0'' with an athletic body, why are you a 4/10?
Baldness?

No I have a full head of hair, my face is really messed up man. This isnt an body dysmorphia thing either, theres a reason why I've made it to early 30s without ever having a gf. Every new job Ive had, NO ONE has ever asked if I have a gf or married, they already know I dont. Also all the disgusted looks I've gotten over the years just prove my face is really the problem. Some guys just have a really bad face and that cancels out all the other good aspects. I just need to overcome it somehow.

OP what's the issue. Haircuts can help too, especially if the face is not flattering. Also, like I said work on your style, or do things to accentuate your height--which is a huge asset for basically all women.

[subterfuge]

I find it hard to imagine that you are that ugly if you've had 13 one night stands tbh. I read that the national average is like 7 sexual partners per lifetime, so you're a relative stud lol

[cruzinV]

(02-21-2019 12:18 PM)subterfuge Wrote:  

I find it hard to imagine that you are that ugly if you've had 13 one night stands tbh. I read that the national average is like 7 sexual partners per lifetime, so you're a relative stud lol

Haha some of those ONS were 2s and 3s. And it's been 13 ONS over the span of about 18years, so that's less than 1 lay per year. I've also been on several mulit-year droughts, longest was 4 years.

[RatInTheWoods]

I've got a head like a dropped pie as well mate, but luckily being a man means that not the only thing women are interesting in us for.

You can do much better with game, maximising your look, confidence and the right strategy.

You are on the right forum to learn to do the best with what mother nature gave you.

[cruzinV]

(02-21-2019 05:28 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

I've got a head like a dropped pie as well mate, but luckily being a man means that not the only thing women are interesting in us for.

You can do much better with game, maximising your look, confidence and the right strategy.

You are on the right forum to learn to do the best with what mother nature gave you.

Yeah I'm going to start the roosh program, specifically focusing on doing 100 approaches...which is a HUGE undertaking for me.

[mikehere]

I am in the same situation you are in mate.

[Rorogue]

Kudos to you sir for breaking out of MGTOW. Takes some courage.

I just turned 30 and am a beginner myself in game, so it would be disingenuous to give you any advice, but you are in the right place. Guys here seem to know their shit.

By the sounds of it, it seems bar/night game is your thing. It's impressive to have a ONS like the one you had a couple months ago. Why not go with that, and try to get into more conversations with girls when you're out?

[heavy]

I'd find a good older male psychologist. That level of approach anxiety is for a reason (esp beyond 30s). It sounds like there's a certain discomfort you have with just being yourself.

Glad to have you out of MGTOW though, that takes brutal self-honesty and courage. Get yourself back into society. Go find a good psychologist to talk through these topics you probably don't like even thinking about and never talk about besides on this forum (just a guess).

[cruzinV]

Approach #1: Went out last night, as I was walking to the club I ran into a group of 5 tourists, 4 girls and 1 guy. I asked the girls where they were going and got ignored, the guy felt bad so he responded and I recommended a club to them.

#2. Talked to a girl in the club, 6/10 late 20s. I could tell she was just being nice but she walked off after 6 minutes.

#3. Talked to another girl, 5/10 late 20s a little fat, I didn't really like her but she spoke to me for about 15 minutes then said she was going to her friends.

#4. 5/10 said she was 25 but looked about 30. I could tell by her body language that she was not into me so i ejected.

I ended up getting pretty drunk and towards the end of the night I just sat by the bar drinking looking like a creep. None of the girls I talked to looked any good tbh and I didnt get good vibes from any if them so didnt bother asking for their numbers. I want to get numbers that actually have a chance at succeeding.

[cruzinV]

#5 I went to a club and saw this girl i talked to like 3 months ago. Shes 21, a soft 7 with a pretty face. I remember she gave me good vibes so I approached her again. She remembered me but wasnt as warm as the first time, I only talked to her a little while cuz I could tell she wanted to leave but I did get her number only because our first interaction was pretty good. Idk if the # will lead to anything(prolly not) but fuck it.

[Hypugamy]

OP, I hear you, it is not easy. I'm similar but mid-late 30's. I don't drink, I have a tiny social circle, work a ton of hours, live in a less than ideal location... I recently finished reading Game, and it is a lot of work, especially as you get older. For me a big initial barrier is just plain lack of time. It's like Roosh V talks about getting older, having less energy to go out, less desire. A whole lot goes into implementing the Roosh V program so it is easy to get overwhelmed.

For me I am focusing on improving my inner game, improving my health and fitness, and time management. After that I want to start getting out more, which for me will mean actually going to some activities and events out in the community where there will women and allow me to get more social and used to talking to people in public. Also quitting dating apps and online dating cold turkey. Because using them is like methadone. It's easy to get some ass using online dating/apps without learning game or improving yourself, and just get into the cycle of banging 4's and 5's... this is where I have wasted most of my life, trolling the ghettos of the internet for pussy. So what I am saying is, baby-steps. We are all starting from different places, so as long as I am improving and working towards a better life situation, I am good with that.

[jcrew247]

I would talk to girls at church or at the gym.
You might have more success finding a girlfriend or a wife at
those places rather than a nightclub.
It depends on what type of woman you are looking for.

[TripleG]

It's sad how ignorant some of the earlier advice is. One guy mentioned that OP should wear "shoe lifts" and another said that OP should work out. OP already mentioned he is tall (6-0") and fit so those are not his issues.
For example this guy below is an actor (so he get's some women) but his facial aesthetics would be tough to overcome for a normal guy. In real-life even if he shaved his head, got a tan and worked out more he still would not be able to run day-game well due to his looks...overcome a pale complexion, narrow nose, veiny skin, etc is not something most of us can do much about without resorting to plastic surgery which can be worse. Example below could succeed but he would have to be extremely charming and persuasive.



I am also not a particularly good looking guy (would give myself a 5.5) so for me night-game is preferred. What I also do is travel overseas (outside the west) where women tend to care less about looks and more about your financial success, worldliness, and just overall character (being a nice guy still works in some areas). That is what I recommend to you. In addition to that always dress the best you can.

[cruzinV]

(03-04-2019 06:05 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

I am also not a particularly good looking guy (would give myself a 5.5) so for me night-game is preferred. What I also do is travel overseas (outside the west) where women tend to care less about looks and more about your financial success, worldliness, and just overall character (being a nice guy still works in some areas). That is what I recommend to you. In addition to that always dress the best you can.

I've thought about overseas travel but I honestly think my only option would be very impoverished countries like Philippines, Cambodia, and Thailand. My face is probably too fucked up for EE or Latin america. If I liked asians and had the flexibility work wise I'd prolly go, but now it's not a good option.

Whats been giving me hope lately is I routinely see ugly guys with decent looking girls. Granted they arent as ugly as I am BUT I make more money than them, I dress better, I'm in way better shape, im taller etc. That must count for something right? I mean what are they doing to get those girls? the only thing I can think of is they are TRYING, something I haven't really been doing until last weekend.

[Azlan]

OP, Do you think it's possible that you're giving off the needy vibe to chicks when you talk to them?
I'm a good looking guy but sometimes I notice I seem to interested and it turns women off bigtime.
Maybe you're not as ugly as you think but instead are just appearing too eager. Just a thought.

[TripleG]

(03-04-2019 08:54 PM)cruzinV Wrote:  

(03-04-2019 06:05 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

I am also not a particularly good looking guy (would give myself a 5.5) so for me night-game is preferred. What I also do is travel overseas (outside the west) where women tend to care less about looks and more about your financial success, worldliness, and just overall character (being a nice guy still works in some areas). That is what I recommend to you. In addition to that always dress the best you can.

I've thought about overseas travel but I honestly think my only option would be very impoverished countries like Philippines, Cambodia, and Thailand. My face is probably too fucked up for EE or Latin america. If I liked asians and had the flexibility work wise I'd prolly go, but now it's not a good option.

Whats been giving me hope lately is I routinely see ugly guys with decent looking girls. Granted they arent as ugly as I am BUT I make more money than them, I dress better, I'm in way better shape, im taller etc. That must count for something right? I mean what are they doing to get those girls? the only thing I can think of is they are TRYING, something I haven't really been doing until last weekend.

Unfortunately bad facial aesthetics is something that a normal guy will never really understand so I feel for you dude. How would you say you compare to the photo I posted earlier of the actor? I would say his face is a 4.5.
Dress and being in shape but with a bad face usually will not get you a young, good looking girl, as the young one's (under 25) tend to be very image conscious so since you are in your 30's try to go for older women (30-40) who tend to look more for a provider and are less image obsessed.

ALso, you are right in that you need to get your ass over to SE Asia asap and NO, they are not impoverished countries, they are developing countries. Thailand is actually quite advanced and Bangkok in some respects better off than many large US cities (for example their public transit system is top notch). Manila is also not bad and many neighborhoods affluent. Cambodia may be too difficult for a "virgin traveler" like yourself. I recommend you give up on USA for now, save some money and vacation time and get your but overseas immediately. Start reading the travel forum as well. Once there, tinder the heck out of the 5s and 6s, not only will you have a great time but your self-esteem will go up as well.

As for EE you can try Ukraine, there's always "romance tours" where quite a few ugly guys land wives several points higher than them.