[NoMoreTO]

(02-19-2019 11:17 PM)Graft Wrote:  

Going off on a tangent but I feel that male vs female friendship is slightly glorified in favor of males in red pill circles. In my experience, every male will fuck you over if the right pussy or money is dangled in front of them. Guys like to claim females are catty, backstabbing, and competitive. It may be somewhat true but females just don't live in the same mode of scarcity for sex and money like males do. I've never seen females ruin their friendship for a guy or money and it literally happens all the time with males. In fact, I'd even argue that random women have more power in male circles than the males in that circle do. Guys will drop you right out of their circle if decent looking women want you out-they'd rather get a shot at the glory hole than stay loyal.

I'm in my late 30s and have a pretty tight group of buddies from high school and before. I also have university friends who I am still tight with and newer buddies who I know through work and mutual friends. I remember in my 20s my buddy told me that I could sleep in the same room as his girl and I wouldn't bang her, and guess what.... he was right. But these are all respectable guys from the same small town, all from decent families.

Your problem might be deciphering the difference between a 'buddy' - someone who you go for beers with, workout with, or go golfing with and a real friend. A real friend you can do all those things with too, but you can count on them.

Just like the saying you cant turn a "ho into a housewife" , you can't take a lizard brain buddy, who may be hilarious, a good wingman, fun to party with, and trust him as a real friend. Just like chicks, watch for social climbers.

If I were you I'd consider figuring this out, try to find some real friends. As you get older, it is a little harder.

Also - disagree with poll question, you can have both. For me the quality woman is much harder to find.

[Graft]

(02-20-2019 12:04 AM)NoMoreTO Wrote:  

I'm in my late 30s and have a pretty tight group of buddies from high school and before. I also have university friends who I am still tight with and newer buddies who I know through work and mutual friends. I remember in my 20s my buddy told me that I could sleep in the same room as his girl and I wouldn't bang her, and guess what.... he was right. But these are all respectable guys from the same small town, all from decent families.

Your problem might be deciphering the difference between a 'buddy' - someone who you go for beers with, workout with, or go golfing with and a real friend. A real friend you can do all those things with too, but you can count on them.

Just like the saying you cant turn a "ho into a housewife" , you can't take a lizard brain buddy, who may be hilarious, a good wingman, fun to party with, and trust him as a real friend. Just like chicks, watch for social climbers.

If I were you I'd consider figuring this out, try to find some real friends. As you get older, it is a little harder.

Also - disagree with poll question, you can have both. For me the quality woman is much harder to find.

I appreciate the response and respect your experience. I think that having an All American high school or college experience certainly sets the tone for whether you will have lifelong loyal friends or not.

I've had three separate groups of friends, one in high school, one in college, one after that I considered true friends. All ended up fucking me over for different reasons.

I'll admit that I'm guilty of making friends with mostly social climbers. A lot of guys that want to be friends with me are friends with me because they see me as a ticket to getting pussy. This is always in the back of my head as I make friends with guys of lower SMV. Most of them even outright tell me that they like being friends with good looking guys, "they can learn from me," etc.

One question that I challenge you with is how many truly difficult times that you've experienced that caused you to dramatically lose status within a social circle, particularly one with other women. Have you ever been in a spot where your friends would lose face by continuing to be friends with you?

[Avoy]

(02-20-2019 12:04 AM)NoMoreTO Wrote:  

Your problem might be deciphering the difference between a 'buddy' - someone who you go for beers with, workout with, or go golfing with and a real friend. A real friend you can do all those things with too, but you can count on them.

Just like the saying you cant turn a "ho into a housewife" , you can't take a lizard brain buddy, who may be hilarious, a good wingman, fun to party with, and trust him as a real friend. Just like chicks, watch for social climbers.

This is good advice for anyone of any age. It also shows that a lack of good, trustworthy mates is also missing in our current culture and are just as hard to find as a good woman.

[cruzinV]

If you are a high SMV man I think wife /family is better since youd be able to pull a high SMV female. If not then having close male friends is better than having a low SMV wife whose probably going to divorce you anyway.

[BronzedAussie]

Definitely men, women come and go, that's part of life.

[Lunostrelki]

A on the condition that I have healthy sons. No matter how tough things get, a man's God-given mission is to produce descendants and instruct them so they can carry on his legacy. Without family/wife you're not going to have any of that.

[armenia4ever]

Now that I'm married and have two sons, I would pick option A everytime.

Close male friendships are important. What you experience in Fatherhood is something incredible though in itself. Seeing my boys learn to walk, formulate words, and seeing the smiles on their faces gives me a drive I may not have had before.

On the sex side, my wife is a nympho. I can't recall the last day and time I DID NOT have sex. No. That's not an exaggeration. (Note I recently turned 30 and my wife is going to turn 23 in May, so a 7 and a half year gap. I suppose she helps keep me "young". We've been married for 3 years now.)

That said a good, caring and most importantly loyal wife is worth more than gold and just about anything else.

[Heuristics]

I would say the imperative is to reproduce that's the fundamental operating basis of humans. That being said family is obviously important to raising your kids and ensuring a stable environment for them. But sadly, divorces will continue to increase, so that is a new reality we are facing.

As another said, it's very important to have real friends, who are not drinking buddies. They will bail you out when you're down, or give you advise you don't want to hear because they are not enablers, they are friends who care about your well-being.

[NoMoreTO]

[/quote]
One question that I challenge you with is how many truly difficult times that you've experienced that caused you to dramatically lose status within a social circle, particularly one with other women. Have you ever been in a spot where your friends would lose face by continuing to be friends with you?
[/quote]

It's a good point, and a tough question.

Yes, I think I caused some un necessary shit when I was young, brash, and prone to the booze like many a young shitlord. I can't say anything serious where they would lose face because of me. But I am not sure how being friends with someone would cause them to lose face just by association.

I did have a really serious situation once was on the borderline of breaking some pretty serious social norms. In the end the situation dissipated. But I do remember thinking about which ones of my friends & family would stand by me.... and I instinctively knew. You probably know too.

[josn123]

The question is a false dichotomy, but if I had to have only one - I'd choose "male friendships and meaningless sex" - if this is a world where the meaningless sex is easily available. However, I would definitely sacrifice some large number of male friendships for an actual female companion/family - in a world in which I believed that divorce is sufficiently unlikely.

I get a lot out of my close male friendships, but finding "the last one" is a 5 - 10 year goal.

[Donfitz007]

I simply don't see the appeal of having only one woman. The sister wives thing is very attractive, and having a spread out harem for all purposes is even ore attractive. The affection, cuddling, etc can be achieved by multiple women. Also i don't see the women in my generation being good mothers at all.

But Also I pretty much lost my closest friend to a girl, he got a girl who cheated on him pregnant and now he's rushing to get married to her and such. His freedom is pretty much over at the age of 21.

Personally, I'm a loner who's very good at making "friends". Im alot of people's best friend but I don't think I have a "best friend". I'm happier alone.

So neither of these are really that great to me. The only reason I would pick a male companion is that I would rather hunt, fish, pick up chicks, go to the shooting range, drink whiskey, smoke cigars, and workout, than do all the things women in my generation like to do. Maybe When I learn game and meet better women My mind will change but as of now no.

Hell even the show Archer got worse to me once he got in a relationship.
I would rather travel the world with another bachelor and pick up girls of every race than have one woman travel the world with me. (although I do dream of taking my main girls to italy, greece, etc)

[RIslander]

I think I may hold a unique perspective to this discussion.

In college I had A. The ideal girlfriend and high grade wife material. I broke up with her because I was young and retarded and now she's married to a good dude and has two children...her second "notch". I made a bad decision and I'm happy for them.

I also had B. A series of close male friends. One of which with whom I was closest with, sadly, passed away in his late twenties and I was with him when it happened (natural causes).

If I had to choose between having that ideal wife or having my close friend back... And discarding the fact that obviously I would choose his life over a girl, I'd still rather have my buddy in my life and resort to banging dumb sluts. I have been able to find girls to pass my time... but I haven't been able to find a replacement for good male companionship.

If I had to choose between dinner with that girl and our kids.. Or drinking good whiskey with my buddy after a day at the range.. It's gonna be B.

[Echovoid_52]

Gonna neees an option D for me.

I have male acquaintances, but I only have one true male friend who I’m really close with. He lives out in LA and we basically talk all day on imessenger shooting the shit, sharing memes and news, nudes and what not. I do not like social group of men’s because as Jack Donovan points out: Brotherhood is a myth. Men are competitors biologically. That’s why your “best bros” are always each other over when it comes to women. Their is no loyalty. If your BFF is wired and horny enough he will make moves on your girl if he thinks he an get away with it.

I have no interest in marriage and having children. I just wanna be a sigma male loner who frequents dive bars and hotels. Maybe one day I’ll want a relationship of more substance with a woman but at 26 I have no interest in a LTR. Last girlfriend who was all lovey dovy romantic with me disappeared on me and since then every time a woman says “I love you” it
Goes in one ear and out the other. Doesn’t even register.

So yeah, I want my girls over my bros. But it’s good to have a few males to talk to every now and then.

[rottenapple]

Interesting and sad to see how many men even on this site do no longer believe in true male friendship or brotherhood. I can understand in some cultures, including my own, it's very hard to come by, but it should always be seen as a goal and not something unreachable or non-existent. I feel sad for men that feel that this is no longer attainable.

[RIslander]

(02-22-2019 12:52 PM)rottenapple Wrote:  

Interesting and sad to see how many men even on this site do no longer believe in true male friendship or brotherhood. I can understand in some cultures, including my own, it's very hard to come by, but it should always be seen as a goal and not something unreachable or non-existent. I feel sad for men that feel that this is no longer attainable.

The fact is, in the US, it is nearly unattainable. You can have it in your early twenties... if you go to college and join a fraternity or club. You can find it if you join the military and associate with the right crowd. Fuck you can make better friends in prison than as an American man over age 23. I still have good friends from my early 20s but they got married and started families. We still hang out once or twice a year and its always a good time... but in my own opinion that sucks. Weekly gym sessions, hitting the range, and just chilling out and exchanging ideas is a necessary aspect of a male lifestyle. Then coming home to my wife and family with 100% dedication and attention.

The progressives have done well putting an end to such culture. This shit has been pissing me off as of late.

[Iconoclast007]

I have a family of 2 kids and a wife. Im very fortunate to have a loving, feminine, beautiful wife that cooks and cleans and fucks on demand. It took me alot of traveling and searching to find her. When I did I made the concious decision to never bring her back to the USSA. I now live in Estonia as a result. I love my family. Its a pain in the ass sometimes and my wife is a women and prone to being a bitch periodicaly its imoossible to 100% avoid that. That said, i wouldnt have it any other way. Its part of being a man.

Ive found male friendship to be transient and centered around a situation. Ive learned to not expect too much. I would love to have a crew of male friends that were top notch, Alpha, guys. I hooe to develop this into the future.

Ive been training BJJ recently and found the male comraderie to be a great relief. I just wish females were not allowed as it ruins some of the vibe. I lived in florida for sometime and had some really good spearfishing buddies. When I was younger in Texas I rode bulls in Rodeos and my bull riding buddies were top notch. My point is that I think males orient themselves around a common goal or sport etc. We the create a hierarchy and pecking order. Its the way of the gang, the way of men. I call it more of a brotherhood than friendship.

Im moving to a Spanish Island in the Atlantic later this year and will rekindle my love of spearfishing and the ocean. I hope to become involved in the local martial arts scene. It is my goal to get involved with a gang /crew of watermen/ surfers divers/ BJJ practitioners. We will see....

Just my 2 cents.

[Geomann180]

If you have to choose one, male friendship* is always better.

Quote:

Conquests may be laudable.

But who wants to be the Lord of Ashes?

How sumptuous the meal eaten in solitude?

What value has gold that cannot be spent?

Few are the pleasures as great as the act of sharing them.

----
Understand, there are no female pallbearers.



[Corpses are of little utility to the living.]



So when you die—



It’s men that will carry you to the grave.



Silently.



Solemnly.

Without my best friend, I may have succumbed to my sorrows in college and saw my grades tanked. Or when I got in trouble and was highly restricted given it was a military college, he helped me get away and still find time to enjoy myself.

Without other friends, I would not have gotten this far in life. Without the Houston crew, my time in Louisiana would have been even more mind-numbingly miserable. Help this past New Year's, Comte de St. Germain saved me from getting a DUI which could have ruined my life.

G

*Good male friends. Toxic friends are never good.

[Geomann180]

Woah woah woah. Why is female compaionship grouped with family and male friendships grouped with no family and meaningless sex?

That's a false dichotomy. A classroom question.

G

[doc holliday]

(02-21-2019 09:25 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

I think I may hold a unique perspective to this discussion.

In college I had A. The ideal girlfriend and high grade wife material. I broke up with her because I was young and retarded and now she's married to a good dude and has two children...her second "notch". I made a bad decision and I'm happy for them.

I also had B. A series of close male friends. One of which with whom I was closest with, sadly, passed away in his late twenties and I was with him when it happened (natural causes).

If I had to choose between having that ideal wife or having my close friend back... And discarding the fact that obviously I would choose his life over a girl, I'd still rather have my buddy in my life and resort to banging dumb sluts. I have been able to find girls to pass my time... but I haven't been able to find a replacement for good male companionship.

If I had to choose between dinner with that girl and our kids.. Or drinking good whiskey with my buddy after a day at the range.. It's gonna be B.

I don't get it. Why is this an either or situation? It is entirely possible to both have a loving woman and some good male friendships. Any woman worth being with will want you to have some close male friends. Now I get that it's hard to find a good woman these days but good women have always been hard to come by. I truly don't understand how so many guys can't find some decent male companionship. We have an entire forum of men here from which one could find some decent dudes to become friends with. I've made some tight friendships with some of the guys on the forum in addition to the many other friends I've made over the years. Who cares what the culture expects of men or what the progressives want everyone to do?

Guys need to stop expecting things to be easy, to expect that good things should just happen organically, because they are special. Building a life worth living, a life filled with great people, both male friends and a female companion takes a lifetime of sweat, tears and grit. Nothing less. In my life, I expect to come across great people that I can befriend, I don't wish and hope for it. Yeah most people suck so I don't deal with them but I've learned to know instinctively who to allow into my life. I'm sorry but I see too many young guys that just don't have the capacity to fight through things and make great things happen with good people in their lives. Forget about the progressives, they're utterly irrelevant to me and they sure don't prevent me from living a life with a fine girl, wonderful adult children and a bunch of solid male friends. I'm not picking on you RIslander but this type of mentality amongst men is killing this generation of men. Fuck choosing, a successful man has both things.

[Donfitz007]

I played poker for the first time. It was with a group of guys 2 of which are my closest friend. We were making jokes, talking about women (who's sexy and who's not) drinking scotch (Balvenie 14) and smoking cigars. 3 other of my friends came and saw how chill the spot was and stayed for a couple hours.

We all felt a brotherhood, as long as there are women and meaningless sex im fine with just having that instead of a relationship. I really want an army of sons, however.