[SlickyBoy]

29 years old, running with the flyboys, rising star and attention whore, extraordinaire.

Quote:

First female Viper demo team pilot relieved of command after two weeks.

Capt. Zoe Kotnik, the first female pilot to head the F-16 Viper demonstration team, was relieved of command Monday.



“Col. Derek O’Malley, 20th Fighter Wing commander, relieved Capt. Zoe Kotnik from command Feb. 11 due to a loss of confidence in her ability to lead and command the Air Combat Command F-16 Viper demonstration team,” said Col. Allen Herritage, director of public affairs at ACC, in a statement. “The Viper demonstration team is working to minimize impacts on scheduled performances and looks forward to inspiring crowds around the country during the upcoming season as soon as a new commander is selected.”

Herritage would not comment further on what led to Kotnik’s removal, citing privacy concerns.

The 20th, which is located at Shaw Air Force Base in South Carolina, said in an email to Air Force Times that Kotnik declined to comment. Capt. Alannah Staver, a spokeswoman for the wing, said that Kotnik is no longer performing with the team, but “will continue to serve in a non-supervisory role in the 20th Fighter Wing."

In a statement on Shaw’s Facebook page, O’Malley alluded to “mistakes” on Kotnik’s part, but expressed hope that she will continue to serve in the Air Force.

“We have thousands of airmen across our Air Force serving our country, and not one of them is perfect,” O’Malley said. “As good people, like Capt. Kotnik, make mistakes, I want them to have the opportunity to learn from them without being under public scrutiny and to continue to be a part of this great service. They’ll be better for the experience, and in turn, we’ll be better as an Air Force.” (Uh, Ok... she must give one hell of a blow job, then.)

“In these types of situations, I never forget that we’re dealing with real human beings, that I care deeply about, and that we are charged to take care of,” O’Malley continued. “This will be a difficult time for Capt. Kotnik, but she’s surrounded by wingmen that will help her every step of the way.”

Kotnik, an F-16C pilot whose call sign is “SiS,” was certified as the Viper team leader by ACC commander Gen. Mike Holmes on Jan. 29. She graduated from the Air Force Academy in 2011, earned her wings in 2013, and has more than 1,000 flying hours in military aircraft. She deployed to Kunsan Air Base in South Korea for a year, from February 2015 to February 2016. She also has flown air defense missions in support of Operation Noble Eagle.

The Viper team is a single-ship demonstration team that performs precision aerial maneuvers to show the F-16′s capabilities at air shows and other events such as the Super Bowl, as well as flying in Air Force Heritage Flight formations. In addition to being the first woman to head the Viper team, Kotnik is also the first female single-ship tactical demonstration pilot in the Air Force.

Kotnik’s selection garnered a great deal of press and social media attention. The Viper team posted a tweet last month announcing her selection that nodded to the advertising campaign for the Marvel Studios movie “Captain Marvel,” which depicts a superhero who starts out as a female Air Force fighter pilot. (With predictable real world results).

Kotnik’s first show as part of the Viper team’s 2019 schedule was to be at an air show at Naval Air Station Key West in Florida, on March 30 and 31, according to ACC’s website.

O’Malley said that Maj. John “Rain” Waters, who was last season’s Viper demo pilot, has resumed command of the team.

They did their level best to couch this one, but there is no getting around it - she as fired, yet remains on the squad for the moment. Her commander who fired her is making excuses like a dad would for his daughter who came home late from a party, for chrissakes. Not long ago the commander would just give a "no comment" and spare the long, unprofessional goodbyes.

The reason she was relieved is "too personal to mention" but not serious enough for confinement, and they keep her around in limbo. Translation, she fucked somebody, probably a married male Airman, perhaps even a subordinate since no other names are mentioned, and maybe while on deployment to Korea for a year. The command had no choice but to let her go and are now seem to be hoping the courts martial won't process her out of the Air Force completely, even though it likely will.

As mentioned in a related thread, it seems that whenever a spotlight is on a female service member, they say "I'm just a regular service member" one minute, then they're using it for whatever extra attention they can get, the next. Zero surprise this one imploded after two weeks on the job, especially when put into a high testosterone environment like a fighter wing. She was a demo pilot, FFS, all she had to do was stay out of the way and do some tricks (no, not those kinds of tricks, honey... doh!)

[911]

her last landing:

[eradicator]

WB




Of course she fucked one of the airmen. Hell, maybe they ran a train on her.

[The Black Knight]

Adultery is an actual crime under the UCMJ (military law).

If married, she can be charged.

If she fucked a married person, she can be charged.

She could also be charged for fucking a unmarried enlisted person and/or someone under her chain of command under different UCMJ laws.

Likely one of the above 4 things from the sounds of it.

She is an AF Academy grad AND a fighter pilot so she is in (unofficially) a very protected class of military officer; officers who already get better treatment when they get in trouble compared to enlisted folks. Pilots are EXPENSIVE to train and the military is desperate right now to keep anyone who is qualified to fly. I recently read about the insane bonuses the military is offering to keep pilots in; like 300-500k total over a period of years (that is tax-free if done in a certain locations). That might be the only thing that saves her ass career wise.

Unfortunately when the military is desperate, they can waive anything. For example: During the Iraq War, the Army was allowing people to become LTs with 2 years of college (instead of 4) so they could command convicted felons (which also got waived during the height of the war). There is a real pilot shortage both inside and outside the military so pussy pass aside, she could very well survive whatever misconduct she engaged in.

That said however, it's also a one mistake military these days and she is just as likely dead in the water career wise. One piece of bad paperwork can kill any promotion opportunities and the military is largely an UP OR OUT promotion structure, though I think that is changing a bit now. Without the details, hard to say which way it could go.

Personally, I don't think women should even be allowed to be fighter pilots. No woman should ever be placed in any sort of combat position nor have command over those that could be put in combat. If you have ever dealt with women in the military; especially in combat exposed roles, you'd understand why they have no business being around that environment in about 30 seconds. Aside from just raw capability limits, what women do to unit cohesion can be terrible from a fighting effectiveness perspective. It's one of many reasons why I left the military. I partially joined to be part of a killing machine; not to be worried about some broads tampons and needing to pass out Hurt Feelings reports constantly.

This woman should be having kids; not playing fighter jock. What a waste of resources all around.

To digress a moment: While the US military is very strong from a technological perspective, a lot of personnel are simply weak and it's getting worse. Boy scouts, faggots, white knights, career ladder climbers, women in combat roles, and government bureaucrats. And why would any young real man want to join the US military these days? Being a tough straight male, especially white male, in today's society is basically a crime.

We should all fear the day a technologically strong military with a non-PC fighting force (i.e. real men) challenges the US.

[MrLemon]

(02-13-2019 12:36 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

Adultery is an actual crime under the UCMJ (military law).

If married, she can be charged.

If she fucked a married person, she can be charged.

She could also be charged for fucking a unmarried enlisted person and/or someone under her chain of command under different UCMJ laws.

Likely one of the above 4 things from the sounds of it.

She is an AF Academy grad AND a fighter pilot so she is in (unofficially) a very protected class of military officer; officers who already get better treatment when they get in trouble compared to enlisted folks. Pilots are EXPENSIVE to train and the military is desperate right now to keep anyone who is qualified to fly. I recently read about the insane bonuses the military is offering to keep pilots in; like 300-500k total over a period of years (that is tax-free if done in a certain locations). That might be the only thing that saves her ass career wise.

Unfortunately when the military is desperate, they can waive anything. For example: During the Iraq War, the Army was allowing people to become LTs with 2 years of college (instead of 4) so they could command convicted felons (which also got waived during the height of the war). There is a real pilot shortage both inside and outside the military so pussy pass aside, she could very well survive whatever misconduct she engaged in.

That said however, it's also a one mistake military these days and she is just as likely dead in the water career wise. One piece of bad paperwork can kill any promotion opportunities and the military is largely an UP OR OUT promotion structure, though I think that is changing a bit now. Without the details, hard to say which way it could go.

Personally, I don't think women should even be allowed to be fighter pilots. No woman should ever be placed in any sort of combat position nor have command over those that could be put in combat. If you have ever dealt with women in the military; especially in combat exposed roles, you'd understand why they have no business being around that environment in about 30 seconds. Aside from just raw capability limits, what women do to unit cohesion can be terrible from a fighting effectiveness perspective. It's one of many reasons why I left the military. I partially joined to be part of a killing machine; not to be worried about some broads tampons and needing to pass out Hurt Feelings reports constantly.

This woman should be having kids; not playing fighter jock. What a waste of resources all around.

To digress a moment: While the US military is very strong from a technological perspective, a lot of personnel are simply weak and it's getting worse. Boy scouts, faggots, white knights, career ladder climbers, women in combat roles, and government bureaucrats. And why would any young real man want to join the US military these days? Being a tough straight male, especially white male, in today's society is basically a crime.

We should all fear the day a technologically strong military with a non-PC fighting force (i.e. real men) challenges the US.

+1

More important, women should not be in the military because by doing so, they destroy one more place where men who don't otherwise fit in society can live and thrive.

One by one, we are adding to the ranks of unemployed and angry men.

Angry men are dangerous. They destroy entire societies. Casually.

[SlickyBoy]

(02-13-2019 12:36 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

She is an AF Academy grad AND a fighter pilot so she is in (unofficially) a very protected class of military officer; officers who already get better treatment when they get in trouble compared to enlisted folks.

Eh, in my experience, being an officer sets them up for even worse situations which might get an enlisted person much less punishment. Even with routine screw ups, officers are (usually) held to higher standards. For example if Pvt Joe Snuffy loses his night vision goggles, he gets an ass chewing and maybe some extra duty - he's not even expected to pay for the loss. If his 2LT loses a set of those, that's the end of his career. But as with all things military justice, YMMV.

Quote:

Pilots are EXPENSIVE to train and the military is desperate right now to keep anyone who is qualified to fly. I recently read about the insane bonuses the military is offering to keep pilots in; like 300-500k total over a period of years (that is tax-free if done in a certain locations). That might be the only thing that saves her ass career wise.

This is surprising on two levels, first because with the increase in drones, the Air Force anticipated far fewer, not greater, numbers of pilots. For those slots remaining, fighter pilots are the most competitive openings out there. How much you want to bet there were plenty of other guys who out scored her on all flight aptitude tests, proficiency exams and in actual exercises? This is to say nothing of raw physical requirements she could never meet (of course that last bit is ignored, by regulation).

Quote:

Unfortunately when the military is desperate, they can waive anything. For example: During the Iraq War, the Army was allowing people to become LTs with 2 years of college (instead of 4) so they could command convicted felons (which also got waived during the height of the war).

I remember even in the late 90s to early 2000s there were ways an enlisted OCS applicant could be accepted with just two years of college, provided they finished their four year degree within X amount of time after graduation. The war accelerated this a bit but the problem of officers leaving the Army right around the O3 (Captain) level has been persistent for some time now - they just don't want to put up with military life, and I don't blame them. The Air Force may be a bit different, particularly for pilots. They'll stick around as long as they want to keep flying, especially with the realities of post-911 airline pilots setting in (shit pay, shit conditions).

As for felons, from what I remember they were not eligible for waivers since they typically can't get a security clearance, so their ultimate usefulness is limited. However there was definitely an increase in "moral waivers" for minor offenses, usually drug related. That and a temporary loosening of the tattoo policies. I think that went away though.

Quote:

That said however, it's also a one mistake military these days (true - zero defect, even though they say it isn't - right before every ass chewing...)

Personally, I don't think women should even be allowed to be fighter pilots. No woman should ever be placed in any sort of combat position nor have command over those that could be put in combat. If you have ever dealt with women in the military; especially in combat exposed roles, you'd understand why they have no business being around that environment in about 30 seconds. Aside from just raw capability limits, what women do to unit cohesion can be terrible from a fighting effectiveness perspective. It's one of many reasons why I left the military. I partially joined to be part of a killing machine; not to be worried about some broads tampons and needing to pass out Hurt Feelings reports constantly.

Agree 100%. If the public were objective enough to recognize this, they would have to agree too, but we live in an era where we actually debate the legitimacy of 11 year old drag queens on morning TV. Barely 20 years ago you'd be laughed out of the room for supporting legal gay marriage, recreational pot or identifying all 57 genders. FFS...)

Quote:

...why would any young real man want to join the US military these days?

I asked myself this question while I was still in - and I got out.

The only reason any guy would logically do it now would be strictly for the benefits, which was almost always the reason women did it. Surveys going back to the 70s back this up. In their own words, patriotism was last on the list of women enlisting or becoming an officer, stupid crossfit trends and Wonder Woman role modeling notwithstanding.

Gradually, the camouflage welfare system mentality spread to nearly every corner of the services, male and female alike. Sure there's still something to be said for learning skills you can't learn anywhere else, team work and camaraderie, but the patriotism angle is tainted when you throw in the PC mine field as well as the mission sets, which too often have to do with AIPAC oriented objectives versus any legitimate American national interest. This was inevitable the minute the draft went away - outsource the military and you outsource virtually all of the political costs. A congressman's wet dream.

Quote:

We should all fear the day a technologically strong military with a non-PC fighting force (i.e. real men) challenges the US.

It won't even take that, nor do I fear it happening before everything else collapses. The Third Reich and the Roman Empire were both technologically superior to their enemies, yet they ultimately failed. The latter is the best example of what will happen to the west. Never mind the usual scaremongering about China or other potential foes. We have technology, but eventually we won't be able to drone-strike and smart bomb our way out of every situation - especially when the nation itself is willingly promoting the invasion, culturally, socially and physically, by detrimental interests.

It's no small irony that back when the gay marriage debate was kicking into high gear, people used to proffer that Greece and Rome had similar situations (they didn't, but whatever), so why don't we? To this I replied: "That's great - but...
...ancient Greece and Rome fell."

Fucking crickets.

[DJ-Matt]

She's meh looking and almost 30, I'd rather join the mile high club with Abby here:

https://www.instagram.com/astronautabbyofficial

She triggers my nerdy girl boner.

[joost]

(02-13-2019 01:00 PM)DJ-Matt Wrote:  

She's meh looking and almost 30, I'd rather join the mile high club with Abby here:

https://www.instagram.com/astronautabbyofficial

She triggers my nerdy girl boner.

Everybody has a different taste but I'll stay with the almost-30 pilot.

[911]

Abby's a babe.

[BlackFriar]

Would impregnate nerdy astronut girl and fired pilot.

[kosko]

What other reasons could there be for dismissal? Could it be she was promoted just for being a girl and quickly shit the bed with her assignments?

[debeguiled]

(02-13-2019 05:07 PM)kosko Wrote:  

What other reasons could there be for dismissal? Could it be she was promoted just for being a girl and quickly shit the bed with her assignments?

Male jealousy.

[RawGod]

We don't know why she was canned. Operational stupidity seems as likely as anything.

[Matsufubu]

I'd fire my sidewinder up her tailpipe, knowwhaddahmsayin?

As a civilian she's a 6. As a military servicewoman she's a hard 9.5.

[Easy_C]

Black Knight understands the way the military works WAY to well to be a civilian.

[SlickyBoy]

(02-13-2019 05:39 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

We don't know why she was canned. Operational stupidity seems as likely as anything.

Her operations were as a demonstration pilot, so I'm pretty positive her weapons systems were never loaded with live munitions at any point in her short career. Barring a major safety violation or something that resulted in her bailing and destroying an F16, there weren't a lot of operations for her to fuck up.

Given the the tip-toeing around the situation by her commander, it's something embarrassing, in addition to the "conduct unbecoming" line that will be added to the pile.

No matter what they do, officers don't get non-judicial punishment (called an Article 15 under the UCMJ), they get relieved and sent packing. She still collects a paycheck and reports to some office somewhere on post, but that likely won't be for long.


And yeah, all of her promotions up until this point in her career were automatic (non-competitive).

[Kid Twist]

Great thread. Confirming what any man with sense knows. More biology lessons for everyone, not that they are paying attention.

[Sooth]

Would join the 250 mile high club with astronaut.

[MidJack]

She got passed from unit to unit until a commander with enough political capital could fire her without losing his career. That's it.

[RatInTheWoods]

Would unload my sidewinder into disgraced pilot to cheer her up.