[budoslavic]

I'm under the impression that most young people who lives in NYC tend to have roommates to split the rent costs if their salary is low, which may not be enough to cover the high costs of living on their own.

Otherwise, working professionals who earn six figures a year and spoiled trust fund babies can afford the high rent costs.

Also, it's common to hear about working professionals who live in either New Jersey or Pennsylvania to commute to/from NYC for work. This is what my nieces and nephew have done for years (NJ-NYC daily train commute).

One drawback about the daily train commute: it's ridiculously expensive; it takes a huge chunk out of one's monthly budget.

[RDF]

(01-27-2019 08:53 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

I would not spend $ 50 on a cheeseburger even if I was making 7 figures per year, no. I wouldn't mind living there but not for long and I could not spend that much just for a small apartment, I would rather live in a shitty place then and hustle a few years to be able to retire earlier. I see it as more of a choice between:

Choice 1: Spend more than $ 21600 per year on rent for a probably pretty mediocre apartment.

Choice 2: Live in a shitty hostel or with a few flatmates in order to not spend much money on rent and then be able to use that money I saved to retire earlier or spend it on things I value more than having an apartment that probably wont be even half as good as I can get in a few other cool cities in Europe.
Every year saving money on rent in NY would mean about 5 years in Budapest, with a much better apartment.

Guess it's a matter of taste. But for me it's an obvious choice.

How old are you? I'm going to take a guess that you're really young, because that's the only way that I can rationalize what you're saying. Pretty hard to sleep permanently in a hostel unless you're 21.

An apartment has value far beyond just being a place to sleep. Having your own spot in a desirable area can directly/indirectly result in higher income, easier opportunities with women, more fun things to do, and most importantly, the availability of more time to do other things. NYC and Los Angeles are basically #1 and #2 in the US for entertainment options so it makes sense that rents are expensive.

Furthermore, commuting is not something to be taken lightly. Take LA as an example. Several people mentioned that there are apartment in "the valley", a region in LA, available for ~$1200/mth, compared to ~$2k/mth in the center of the city. The problem is that most (not all!) jobs are located in that center city, and traffic during rush hour from the valley is miserable. You will spend 1.5 hours/day commuting - this equates to ~300 hours a year, or 12 entire DAYS per year spent in a car. Just think of what else you could do with that time.

If you're lucky enough to work location independent or find a job in cheaper areas, than that's a separate discussion. But for the most part, I think that while you may save money on rent, you'll pay that money back in other ways, whether it is through a painful commute or just having far less things to do.

[Teutatis]

Someone posted a few weeks ago an article about some dumb woman that had moved to NYC to be a journalist and live the <<glamorous>> sex and the city lifestyle. She eventually had to leave because she was bankrupt and couldn't afford it anymore. I personally know one miamian girl who moved to NYC for a couple of years and then returned because it was too expensive for her. I'm sure that happens to some people.

[Cation]

1k on food? That is insane.

[nek]

Don't underestimate the willingness of fathers to make sure "the princess has a palace".

[ThrustMaster]

Lmao, try $3200 for a liveable studio apartment in Palo Alto, Los Altos, Mountain View areas of Silicon Valley. The epicenter of the madness...

[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

(01-28-2019 12:55 AM)RDF Wrote:  

How old are you? I'm going to take a guess that you're really young, because that's the only way that I can rationalize what you're saying. Pretty hard to sleep permanently in a hostel unless you're 21.

An apartment has value far beyond just being a place to sleep. Having your own spot in a desirable area can directly/indirectly result in higher income, easier opportunities with women, more fun things to do, and most importantly, the availability of more time to do other things. NYC and Los Angeles are basically #1 and #2 in the US for entertainment options so it makes sense that rents are expensive.

Not that young really. If I had plans to work for the rest of my life or until my 60’s like most people, I would probably think like you. But the money saved on rent for about 5 years in New York would able me to retire early in a lot of places in Europe with a very nice place and close access to better women and just as many ”fun things to do”.

[AntoniusofEfa]

(01-28-2019 03:51 AM)ThrustMaster Wrote:  

Lmao, try $3200 for a liveable studio apartment in Palo Alto, Los Altos, Mountain View areas of Silicon Valley. The epicenter of the madness...

There is a reason for this. Once I graduate in a couple of years, I could take on the job of an "Embedded firmware Engineer", or "Mixed Signal Engineer".

Here in Germany, the starting salary in the west of the country will be in the range of 38K EUR, up to 45K EUR in Munich. None of the cities where this salary is offered are very cheap. Regardless of how crappy is the city, if you want to live in a neighborhood with a low migrant population, you will need to pay a premium. Something like a 1100 Euro for a small apartment in Dusseldorf or 1500 EUR in Munich (without Internet and Electricity) is a normal rent for an unfurnished apartment.

These are all private sector jobs, there is unpaid overtime, and you will need to hustle. A major difference is the number of available jobs and the competition for skilled employees: It is non existing in Germany, due to a very large number of Engineering graduates. I am having to take on (multiple year long) part time jobs as student doing (hardware) verification work just to be considered for an entry job.

In the US tech clusters, you can easily hop companies and get that nice 200K USD p.a. (including bonuses) within less than 10 years of starting your career. Here you top out at typically 70K (West - Frankfurt) or 80K (South - Munich) and that is about it.

If I could I would have moved to the US, and paid the higher rent, but these visas are getting more impossible with each year. The only alternative for me would be Switzerland, Canada or Australia if I ever want to have a decent purchasing power as a normal employee. The German middle class without inheritance is even more priced out of the Housing market than their US counterparts.

[Dulceácido]

(01-27-2019 09:37 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

Add Miami to that list if you want to have a water view. Water view makes the girls wet.

My rent in Miami (Brickell) was $2100/mo. 549 sq. ft. 1 bedroom, water view, high floor.

Then I moved to a "cheap place" in South Miami for $1900/mo. 600 sq. ft. 1 bedroom. View of an alleyway behind a Publix supermarket. 3rd floor. "Normal" apartment.

I would think $1800/mo in NYC would be a steal and I'd jump all over it. I think it's a "small town" mindset that sees this level of rent as "outrageous." When you're making $200k/yr, a $1800/mo. for rent is very, very reasonable for a centrally located apartment with a short commute. Of course, you could work that same job and live an hour or more commute away and save on that rent--it just depends on how valuable your time is to you, how much money you are making and are willing to dispose of for saving that time, and your personal preferences. To someone coming from the midwest or rural south where the Wal Mart employees earn $8/hr and still manage to etch out a living, even with kids, $1800/mo rent is inconceivable. But, as someone mentioned before, you have doormen in NYC making 6 figures. Those same Wal Mart employees in NYC are making around $30-$40/hour...

Click on this thingy and check it out for example... (Customer Service Rep: $38.39/hour Wal Mart near NYC)

So, you see, No More Soy Boy? The way it works is quite simple: people in NYC make far more money doing the same or even less shit than people living elsewhere, therefore the rent is higher. If you can be a store clerk in Wal Mart and make $40/hour, then a reasonably educated person with a little ambition or a skilled tradesman, for sure, can get a job making a very significantly higher income than in other parts of the States.

[kosko]

(01-27-2019 10:41 PM)steezyy Wrote:  

You can live in Manhattan on $1200-1300 with a few roommates.

Rent: 1200
Food: 1000
Other: 800 (metro pass, gym, parties)

That's 3000/month post-tax, not much at all. Rent in Brooklyn/Jersey is even cheaper, at 800-1000 (with roommates).

For 3k/month you get access to the best job market in the world and the only city where girls outnumber guys.

Your food costs are very high but aside from that this is the same as Toronto more or less. Toronto costs about 80% of NYC but you get maybe 20% of the similar offerings of the big city versus Toronto.

[AntoniusofEfa]

(01-28-2019 04:49 AM)kosko Wrote:  

(01-27-2019 10:41 PM)steezyy Wrote:  

You can live in Manhattan on $1200-1300 with a few roommates.

Rent: 1200
Food: 1000
Other: 800 (metro pass, gym, parties)

That's 3000/month post-tax, not much at all. Rent in Brooklyn/Jersey is even cheaper, at 800-1000 (with roommates).

For 3k/month you get access to the best job market in the world and the only city where girls outnumber guys.

Your food costs are very high but aside from that this is the same as Toronto more or less. Toronto costs about 80% of NYC but you get maybe 20% of the similar offerings of the big city versus Toronto.

Is it that bad? How the Canadians put up with such low salaries?

[Jetset]

(01-27-2019 11:34 PM)PharaohRa Wrote:  

If you are a guy, you better be working for a Big 4/Investment Bank/Hedging Company/Top tier insurance company, and make at least $150k and over or have roommates that you can trust.

This is the trick. Even a lot of Americans are unaware of how large the pay differential can be between NYC and other cities, not just in finance but in tech, media, etc.

I'm aware of NYC tech firms who hire remote because finding somebody to work from Boise for 120k with full benefits and six weeks paid vacation is a *steal* compared to hiring within the five boroughs.

NYC landlords typically observe a so-called "40x rule", requiring tenants to prove that they earn 40x the monthly rent annually, or to secure a co-signor who does. Sometimes, parents or employers will co-sign for the tenant, but it gives you an idea of where salaries are at in a given building.

People with blue-collar jobs either have roommates, live in basement studios, or ride the LIRR 45 minutes each way.

[Repo]

(01-28-2019 04:07 AM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

(01-28-2019 12:55 AM)RDF Wrote:  

How old are you? I'm going to take a guess that you're really young, because that's the only way that I can rationalize what you're saying. Pretty hard to sleep permanently in a hostel unless you're 21.

An apartment has value far beyond just being a place to sleep. Having your own spot in a desirable area can directly/indirectly result in higher income, easier opportunities with women, more fun things to do, and most importantly, the availability of more time to do other things. NYC and Los Angeles are basically #1 and #2 in the US for entertainment options so it makes sense that rents are expensive.

Not that young really. If I had plans to work for the rest of my life or until my 60’s like most people, I would probably think like you. But the money saved on rent for about 5 years in New York would able me to retire early in a lot of places in Europe with a very nice place and close access to better women and just as many ”fun things to do”.

But that's only like 100k though.. ..if that's all you need then living in New York will enable you to stack that up much quicker than most cities. Yes the rent is high but so are salaries. Many people live in New York while their working, stack up a ton of money, them move to cheaper suburbs by where the cost of living is ridiculously low.

You seem to be continuing to ignore the salary factor. Have you actually negotiated (real) job offers in New York yet to actually give you the basis to make a fair compairson?

[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

(01-28-2019 07:40 AM)Repo Wrote:  

But that's only like 100k though.. ..if that's all you need then living in New York will enable you to stack that up much quicker than most cities. Yes the rent is high but so are salaries. Many people live in New York while their working, stack up a ton of money, them move to cheaper suburbs by where the cost of living is ridiculously low.

You seem to be continuing to ignore the salary factor. Have you actually negotiated (real) job offers in New York yet to actually give you the basis to make a fair compairson?

And that $ 100k saved on rent in NY is enough to buy a very nice place in Eastern Europe together with some other money I would have left from the high paycheck there. I would personally value a nice house around, for example, Budapest more than living in an overpriced apartment in New York. Even if it meant I would have to live with a couple of roomies in NY for a few years. Yes it would suck, but I would do it rather than seeing that amount of money go to waste which could give a tremendous value in a place like Eastern Europe.

I could most probably not retire after only 5 years in New York if I wanted to stay there for life but I could if I saved the money there and used it in EE and then just played the stock market and invested.

But anyway, I realize I might be odd in this case but it's just my personal preference because I value some stuff different to most.

[TigerMandingo]

Maybe this is unpopular to say, but I wouldn't live in NY regardless of what the pay is. This city has gotten seriously dirty and disgusting, the subway is 3rd-worldish, full of non-English speaking immigrants, and it takes a toll on your mental health. These are things that may seem minor but they have a cumulative effect over time. I'd much rather take a smaller salary in a place like Denver but be surrounded by good nature and less bustle.

[EmilErlenmeyer]

(01-28-2019 04:25 AM)AntoniusofEfa Wrote:  

(01-28-2019 03:51 AM)ThrustMaster Wrote:  

Lmao, try $3200 for a liveable studio apartment in Palo Alto, Los Altos, Mountain View areas of Silicon Valley. The epicenter of the madness...

There is a reason for this. Once I graduate in a couple of years, I could take on the job of an "Embedded firmware Engineer", or "Mixed Signal Engineer".

Here in Germany, the starting salary in the west of the country will be in the range of 38K EUR, up to 45K EUR in Munich. None of the cities where this salary is offered are very cheap. Regardless of how crappy is the city, if you want to live in a neighborhood with a low migrant population, you will need to pay a premium. Something like a 1100 Euro for a small apartment in Dusseldorf or 1500 EUR in Munich (without Internet and Electricity) is a normal rent for an unfurnished apartment.

These are all private sector jobs, there is unpaid overtime, and you will need to hustle. A major difference is the number of available jobs and the competition for skilled employees: It is non existing in Germany, due to a very large number of Engineering graduates. I am having to take on (multiple year long) part time jobs as student doing (hardware) verification work just to be considered for an entry job.

In the US tech clusters, you can easily hop companies and get that nice 200K USD p.a. (including bonuses) within less than 10 years of starting your career. Here you top out at typically 70K (West - Frankfurt) or 80K (South - Munich) and that is about it.

If I could I would have moved to the US, and paid the higher rent, but these visas are getting more impossible with each year. The only alternative for me would be Switzerland, Canada or Australia if I ever want to have a decent purchasing power as a normal employee. The German middle class without inheritance is even more priced out of the Housing market than their US counterparts.

Munich really is crazy similar to London if you consider the lower wages for high-end jobs compared to NY/Bay Area.

On the other hand I don't think working in the US is that much better: unpaid overtime is something you'll surely encounter there more than in Europe, less holidays (you get 30 days of paid leave in Europe!), paying for healthcare and retirement will take also money away. And starting with 100k p.a. before taxes won't be fun when the apt is 3k / month. Sure if you make it to 200k life might be better but for me this sounds a little bit like the typical "the grass is always greener on the other side".

[Mentavious]

I’m paying close to 4 stacks a month for a one bedroom in California. Location seems to be everhing here in northern and Southern California as I’ve learned. Girls here but especially ones that travel are very happy to come through my place and stay. Sounds like location is less important in NYC.

I spend around 500 usd a month on groceries and maybe 200 or so going out to eat. I don’t drink much anymore.

I would take living in NYC over almost anywhere in the world even with the high rent at this point in my life. I’m mostly in the stage of making connections, growing my business, and swooping girls. If I wanted to settle down then NYC would be replaced by seasonal cities in Europe or southern US cities.

[TigerMandingo]

4 Gs a month for a one BR?!

Holy shit bro, you could live like a king in EE with that kinda cash!

[Cation]

Live like a king and just spend money instead of earning it. Great plan.

[Drazen]

At least in LA, its either you or your family already has money, you do a lot of side hustles, or you get vastly overpaid for what you do or you have a solid job that pays well.

A lot are jobs that overpay for what you do. Something you'd get $35k for in a 2nd tier city, you can get six figures for in LA. I know guys who are "social media managers" who make six figures for bigger companies.

[Sooth]

I recently stayed in an Air BNB. The lady had a large nice 4 bedroom house in a good location but her two kids had left home.

Basically all the money she made from AirBNB went to the kids in the form of "top ups" and gifts. One traveling the world as a yoga instructor, and the other on entry level wage in a central city apartment in a top tier city with a basic office job. There is no way their lifestyles are sustainable without the handout from their mother.

I suspect this is common, and who knows what else some of these girls are doing on the side.

[godzilla]

Not an expert on LA but one of the reasons housing costs are so high in New York is that rent costs go to subsidize other people. A lot of people in New York City live in subsidized housing so they don't pay even close to the costs you might see advertised.

Not going to deny that NY is expansive but once you leave the city, there are fairly decent neighborhoods in Jersey that aren't too expensive to live in, so if you make a high salary and don't need to be close to the action, you can really save a lot of money.

For example, there are some studios that go for about $1200 in Hudson County, and when I looked for an apartment in I visited a 3 bed apt in Weehawken for $2400, and 2bed in Union City for $1500.

These places probably won't be the best for meeting females, but if you're a true player, you can make it work.

Last note: It takes about 1 hour by Amtrak Acela (high speed) from Philly to New York. I knew a few ppl that worked in NY and lived in Philly, they usually only had to be in the office 2 days a week.

[Shimmy]

Simple, people who live in NY think like New Yorkers and spend money like someone earning a New Yorkers salary would. If you want to live in some third world country and spend third world money get a remote job. Don't expect to make a NY salary and pay third world rent.

[TigerMandingo]

(01-28-2019 06:24 PM)godzilla Wrote:  

Not an expert on LA but one of the reasons housing costs are so high in New York is that rent costs go to subsidize other people. A lot of people in New York City live in subsidized housing so they don't pay even close to the costs you might see advertised.

Yea....poor people are the reason NY rents are skyhigh

[Brodiaga]

(01-28-2019 09:05 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

Maybe this is unpopular to say, but I wouldn't live in NY regardless of what the pay is. This city has gotten seriously dirty and disgusting, the subway is 3rd-worldish, full of non-English speaking immigrants, and it takes a toll on your mental health. These are things that may seem minor but they have a cumulative effect over time. I'd much rather take a smaller salary in a place like Denver but be surrounded by good nature and less bustle.

Shh! This goes against the general party line on this forum. Some people may even call you a troll for writing this.